John Wall makes 2000 shots a day

[bullsnewdynasty]

I don't think Wall's supporting cast was all that different from Rose's for the most part. There are a lot of similarities between these players.

Ben Gordon -> Nick Young
Tyrus Thomas -> Andray Blatche
Joakim Noah -> JaVale McGee
Kirk Hinrich -> Kirk Hinrich
Larry Hughes -> Gilbert Arenas
Drew Gooden -> Yi Jianlian
Luol Deng -> Rashard Lewis

Salmons and Miller are the the only difference, for the most part, and they were only there half the year.

u conveniently left out cartier martin, mustafa shakur, alonzo gee, otheous jeffers, larry ownes, and lester hudson... all d league players who spent significant time on the wizards. only 3 of the 7 players u listed played together for extended minutes... due to trades and injuries.

And those guys spent significant time on the Wizards? You consider 1327 minutes COMBINED between all those players significant time? Lol.

Trevor Booker and Jordan Crawford aren't horrible either, though the latter was a chucker.

[stillalive]

Don't forget the Bulls were coached by a clueless Vinny Del Negro, which is the equivalent of a group of D-league players. The guy was a joke. The team before Rose was 33-49, an absolute mess. He definitely had an impact on changing the culture of the team even as a soft-spoken rookie.

[WhatsaTDot]

This claim is ridiculous. This is NBA hyperbole.

"I don't really know a realistic number to provide you so I'll give you 2k cause I like video games made by them."

[Wone]

Impressive. Wall will be a damn good player.

[DaeDae]

Wall, right now, is a transition scorer. 48% of his attempts were in the first 10 seconds of the shot clock. I wish i had a breakdown for like the first...6 or something, but I don't. But watching him, he's a grossly inefficient half-court scorer, without a lot of moves. I'd say Rondo is a more effective half-court scorer than he is now. Part of that is due to his shot; nobody respects that thing. But part is due to his less than optimal explosiveness off his first step. He's absolutely blazing when he gets his stride, but he's not great when he has to take small, quick steps. Rose, on the other hand, is really wonderful at it. Rose has different first-steps for different situations, but they're all fantastically quick.

Wall's transition game is really fantastic, but its a bit false to say- hey look, both Rose and Wall made 60% of their attempts at the rim! Wall had an assload of attempts at the rim unchallenged. Rose had to make a lot of his attempts off half-court moves, and there's a ton of congestion in the lane in that situation. And it's not like Rose has ever played in a true transition offense like Wall did last season. Wall was allowed to leak out and gamble for steals-- Rose has never been unshackled like that. The Bulls as an organization put defense first.

I think it's clear that Rose, even in his rookie season, was a much better half-court scorer. And I think he'll continue to be for their entire careers. But I like Wall's defensive potential and distributive capacity more. The ceiling for Wall I think will depend on his discipline on the court (he's often a little too liberal with himself, while Rose is too often conservative), and the improvement of his jumpshot. But he's certainly got the athleticism and skillset to be way up there.

I really hate that this has degenerated into YET ANOTHER Rose vs Wall thread, but inasmuch as it has, this post is God-Like in its truths.....

[memgrizzlies]

INB4 name change to liljohnwall.

[NBA Fan 1234]

I don't think Wall's supporting cast was all that different from Rose's for the most part. There are a lot of similarities between these players.

Ben Gordon -> Nick Young
Tyrus Thomas -> Andray Blatche
Joakim Noah -> JaVale McGee
Kirk Hinrich -> Kirk Hinrich
Larry Hughes -> Gilbert Arenas
Drew Gooden -> Yi Jianlian
Luol Deng -> Rashard Lewis

Salmons and Miller are the the only difference, for the most part, and they were only there half the year.

While they may be similar in playing styles, the difference in BBIQ and talent is favored completely in Rose's favor...and it's not even close.

Rose's supporting cast has been hyped up recently due to the MVP debates that went on last season but the reality is minus Rose the bulls were a terrible team. Larry Hughes and Tyrus Thomas aren't the sharpest tools in the shed and young Noah was a total slacker pothead. He was Javale Mcgee before Javale Mcgee. It was only recently he got his head out of his behind. Luol Deng was injured a lot that year and Ben Gordon was Ben Gordon. Nothing special. Clutch but that's it. You would think Rose was drafted by a contender the way people like to discredit his contribution to his teams winning.

I'm sorry, but I need to respectfully disagree. Luol Deng would be the second best player on the Wizards even IF he were injured. Noah, even in his early stages, was better than McGee. Tyrus Thomas is a question mark...similar to Blatche, but at least he played defense. Ben Gordon is still an 18+ PPG scorer. Rose definitely helped that team be successful, but if you're trying to say that Rose's cast was worse or even remotely equal to the Wizards' supporting cast for Wall you are mistaken.

[Elden Payton]

John Wall is gunning for Chris Paul's ownership of best PG in the game.

I think he can do it...

[lilojmayo]

So if you want to look at those combine numbers and “not ignore them”, you’ll note that Wall is a full 1.5 inches taller than Rose, had a better max vert reach, and beat him handily in the agility testing.

Secondarily, Wall’s coach noted in May of this year that John was still growing and is now an inch taller than when he was drafted, which would put him at about 2.5 inches taller than Rose. If you watched any video of Wall this offseason, you would see that he does now appear to stand about the same height as Harden, who is 6’5”.

No Wall only has 1.25" on Rose, shoe heights vary. Lets not believe Rose's shoes only add 1 inch while Wall's shoes add 1.5 inches. Wall may appear to be taller than he was last year but so does everyone who was drafted after high school or a freshman year. Durant is damn near 7 foot these days. Rose likely experienced his own growing as well. Again, this is not the different beteween Wade and Lebron or Lebron and Durant. The height difference here is negligible. Vert reach and length for point guard isn't as important as it is for bigmen or even wings. Wall isn't going to be anchoring a defense any time soon. Wall did beat Rose in the agility i will concede that.

You are also ignoring the most important one. Sprint. Wall rant the sprint as fast as Oj Mayo (3.14). Rose was the fastest top 15 pick ever(3.05) recorded by draft express. Sort the players by sprint times and you will see. Wall is not faster than Rose according to the numbers. Side note: Nate Robinson is an absolute freak!

Those are raw athletic numbers. That doesn't necessarily mean they translate in, in game situations. Last time I checked they are playing basketball, not track. OJ Mayo is an athetic player, dude is an athlete, anyone who has got a chance to see him up close will tell you this.

There are many reasons why a guy like OJ Mayo's raw numbers, succ doesn't translate in in game athleticism. Numbers wise he should be a freak athete. Reality he is just an above average athlete ( NBA standards).

Some ppl just dont know how to move with the basketball. Some people call it " the ball being an extension of your hand". Personally, I think it is mindset/mentality. John Wall loves playing wreckless , always in the 5th gear trying to out athlete you. Where a guy like Mayo likes using his IQ, plays the game like chess, a lot like a Brandon Roy, likes the skills aspect of the game, like the off the dribble step back bank shot etc.

[maoriboy]

I wonder how many LeBron has to make a day. Probably 100?

LeBron has a terrible work ethic. No wonder why he doesn't have a post game already

Ive read that he's gone from 500 mid range / three pointer / post shots per training sessions since his induction into Miami.

Also read "The evouliton of LeBron's post game" ...

Interesting article, advanced stats have LeBron ranked as a top 15 post player (For perimeter players) ranked higher then Kobe and Pierce for example.

Also acknowledges LeBron's sometimes ineffectiveness and relates it to his inability to find a "Signature Move".

The rest is opinion ...

[7-Day Dray]

Wall, right now, is a transition scorer. 48% of his attempts were in the first 10 seconds of the shot clock. I wish i had a breakdown for like the first...6 or something, but I don't. But watching him, he's a grossly inefficient half-court scorer, without a lot of moves. I'd say Rondo is a more effective half-court scorer than he is now. Part of that is due to his shot; nobody respects that thing. But part is due to his less than optimal explosiveness off his first step. He's absolutely blazing when he gets his stride, but he's not great when he has to take small, quick steps. Rose, on the other hand, is really wonderful at it. Rose has different first-steps for different situations, but they're all fantastically quick.

Wall's transition game is really fantastic, but its a bit false to say- hey look, both Rose and Wall made 60% of their attempts at the rim! Wall had an assload of attempts at the rim unchallenged. Rose had to make a lot of his attempts off half-court moves, and there's a ton of congestion in the lane in that situation. And it's not like Rose has ever played in a true transition offense like Wall did last season. Wall was allowed to leak out and gamble for steals-- Rose has never been unshackled like that. The Bulls as an organization put defense first.

I think it's clear that Rose, even in his rookie season, was a much better half-court scorer. And I think he'll continue to be for their entire careers. But I like Wall's defensive potential and distributive capacity more. The ceiling for Wall I think will depend on his discipline on the court (he's often a little too liberal with himself, while Rose is too often conservative), and the improvement of his jumpshot. But he's certainly got the athleticism and skillset to be way up there.

+1

[theboomking]

Rose was definitely better at half court offense, but little of that had to do with proficiency getting to the rim. It was almost purely due to Wall's terrible jumper last year. I do think Rose may have a little better first step, but Wall has no trouble getting to the rim, and has a blazing first step. What you are seeing in games isn't that Wall's first step isn't as good, it is that because Wall's first step is so good, and his jumper isn't, defenders sag off him and challenge him to shoot.

The Wall first step criticism is one unique to realgm Bulls fans as far as I can tell. Can you Bulls fans post a link to any scout or media source that supports that Wall has a mediocre first step, or has trouble getting to the rim in the half court? Any link from a decent, non-bleacher report source? Secondarily, I have never seen Wall stonewalled by anyone the way Lebron totally shut down Rose one on one in the playoffs.

For all of Wall's acknowledged inefficiencies last year, turnovers, defense, and his jumper, Wall posted a TS% .494. Rose had a rookie TS% of .516. Westbrook had a rookie TS% of .490. So, Wall had a TS% better than Westbrook, and 2 percent lower than Rose. Wall posted a PER of 15.85 as a rookie, Rose 16.05, and Westbrook 15.20. I don't know where you are getting your winshare stats. Wall had 5.17 WS as a rookie, compared to 5.1 for Rose and 3.8 for Westbrook. That is a very similar TS% and more win shares for Wall BTW.
http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=John%20Wall

In the interest of seeing how their stats compared once Wall was more healthy, I pulled the splits for Rose, Wall and Westbrook after the All star break. Wall was clearly better than Westbrook, and looked like a slightly less efficient player than Rose, but with more production and likely a higher ceiling.

Post All star break rookie stats
Wall: 18.5ppg .410 FG% 7.4 Ast 5.2reb 0.6blk 1.9 stl 7.0FTA .787FT% 4.0 TO
Rose: 16.5ppg .480 FG% 6.3ast 4.5reb 0.2blk 0.8 stl 3.3FTA .785FT% 2.5TO
Westbrook: 15.8ppg .384 FG% 6.0ast 5.2reb 0.2blk 1.2stl 5.1FTA .830FT% 3.7TO

That is more points, assists, rebounds, blocks, steals, and FTA then Rose and Westbrook.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/439 ... e=Fielding

[doctorfunk]

Allen, one of the NBA's best pure shooters, said a typical offseason workout for him might include about 500 jumpers. For example, he might make 100 from each baseline, 100 from the wings and 100 from the top of the key. "Anything more than that is unnecessary," Allen said.

Yeah, that's kind of my point. I mean those are some of the best shooters in history calling B.S. on that sort of claim. It just strains credulity.

that what I said ha!
anyways almost nobody commented on it and went on with the debate for 3 pages about Durrick Roase

Can you please make a sub-group Bullsfans and let them see only the Bulls board? thanks in advance!

[BrooklynBulls]

Allen can say whatever he wants, but the amount of players who put up at least 1000 shots a day in the offseason is not insignificant. Just because it only takes Allen 500 to MAINTAIN his proficiency does not mean it took Allen 500 to ACQUIRE it.

[7-Day Dray]

Allen can say whatever he wants, but the amount of players who put up at least 1000 shots a day in the offseason is not insignificant. Just because it only takes Allen 500 to MAINTAIN his proficiency does not mean it took Allen 500 to ACQUIRE it.

[Winsome Gerbil]

Allen can say whatever he wants, but the amount of players who put up at least 1000 shots a day in the offseason is not insignificant. Just because it only takes Allen 500 to MAINTAIN his proficiency does not mean it took Allen 500 to ACQUIRE it.

those weren't the most telling quotes. These were:

That's 2,000 makes, not attempts. Fifteen- to 18-footers, too, not layups or free throws. Every day.

"No way," said Bucks guard Ray Allen. "I don't know Kobe, but that sounds like ... Did he really say that?"

Knicks forward Glen Rice, a teammate of Bryant's a year ago, was only slightly more diplomatic. "Hmmm, that seems like an awful lot," said Rice with a chuckle and a roll of the eyes. "I've never shot that many. But it's possible, I guess. Kobe's a gym rat."

Even by NBA standards, Bryant's claim strains credulity. In order to make 2,000 shots, a player would need to make 500 shots an hour -- over eight per minute -- for four hours. While not impossible, it would be a murderous workout. Especially if one did it every day.

"If I took that many shots," said Allen, "I'd need surgery to reattach my arm."

Which pretty much makes it sound like not only had Allen and Rice never shot that many at any point, but they did not think it was physically possible over any length of time.

[Blame Rasho]

Hell even if we call it bull, it is encouraging that he making significant strides to shore up his biggest weakness.

[BrooklynBulls]

2,000 is definitely the most I've ever heard claimed. But that doesn't mean it's false. Both Rice and Allen (if you infer it) have never tried to do it.

Which is different than saying it can't be done.

[theboomking]

I actually am also a little suspicious of the claim. I'm not sure whether it would even be good for an NBA player to train that way. Seems like training too hard rather than training hard and training smart.

[LoneyROY7]

So if you want to look at those combine numbers and “not ignore them”, you’ll note that Wall is a full 1.5 inches taller than Rose, had a better max vert reach, and beat him handily in the agility testing.

Secondarily, Wall’s coach noted in May of this year that John was still growing and is now an inch taller than when he was drafted, which would put him at about 2.5 inches taller than Rose. If you watched any video of Wall this offseason, you would see that he does now appear to stand about the same height as Harden, who is 6’5”.

No Wall only has 1.25" on Rose, shoe heights vary. Lets not believe Rose's shoes only add 1 inch while Wall's shoes add 1.5 inches. Wall may appear to be taller than he was last year but so does everyone who was drafted after high school or a freshman year. Durant is damn near 7 foot these days. Rose likely experienced his own growing as well. Again, this is not the different beteween Wade and Lebron or Lebron and Durant. The height difference here is negligible. Vert reach and length for point guard isn't as important as it is for bigmen or even wings. Wall isn't going to be anchoring a defense any time soon. Wall did beat Rose in the agility i will concede that.

You are also ignoring the most important one. Sprint. Wall rant the sprint as fast as Oj Mayo (3.14). Rose was the fastest top 15 pick ever(3.05) recorded by draft express. Sort the players by sprint times and you will see. Wall is not faster than Rose according to the numbers. Side note: Nate Robinson is an absolute freak!

No, Rose's 3.05 sprint was NOT the fastest of any top 15 pick. Eric Gordon ran a 3.01 sprint in the very same draft class.
B/c very few people watch Clippers' games they don't realize Gordon is one of the fastest players w/ one of the quickest/most explosive first-steps in the league.