Derrick Rose should've never gotten a 3 point shot

[Rerisen]

It's hard to win without 3pt shooters in the modern era. Last year if not for Rose's dramatic increase (and Deng's) the Bulls would have been one of the worst volume 3pt teams in the league.

Teams would just pack the paint and dare Rose to shoot.

This is the downside to signing Rip Hamilton. He's more of a mid-range guy, than 3pt floor spacer, to help Rose drive more. Though Rip did league the league in 3pt% one year and shot over 40% another year.

If I was Thibodeau, I would be moving Rip out to the arc a lot more, doing away with at least half of his endless running around, since he's no longer elite at that. The Bulls offense should be all about maximizing Rose, because it will in turn pay off for everyone else.

With Rip and Deng taking the threes, this would allow Rose to focus on taking it toward the rim more, and as a result of this, he would get more open mid-range shots as well. Which he was able to get more when Gordon was on the team spacing the floor, and even Hinrich/Salmons to some extent in 2010.

2 Games in Rose has shot 14 threes, Rip has shot 1. This is epic fail.

[CablexDeadpool]

It's hard to win without 3pt shooters in the modern era. Last year if not for Rose's dramatic increase (and Deng's) the Bulls would have been one of the worst volume 3pt teams in the league.

Teams would just pack the paint and dare Rose to shoot.

This is the downside to signing Rip Hamilton. He's more of a mid-range guy, than 3pt floor spacer, to help Rose drive more. Though Rip did league the league in 3pt% one year and shot over 40% another year.

If I was Thibodeau, I would be moving Rip out to the arc a lot more, doing away with at least half of his endless running around, since he's no longer elite at that. The Bulls offense should be all about maximizing Rose, because it will in turn pay off for everyone else.

With Rip and Deng taking the threes, this would allow Rose to focus on taking it toward the rim more, and as a result of this, he would get more open mid-range shots as well. Which he was able to get more when Gordon was on the team spacing the floor, and even Hinrich/Salmons to some extent in 2010.

2 Games in Rose has shot 14 threes, Rip has shot 1. This is epic fail.

Rip can't hit 3s.

IDK, 33 percent volume 3 point shooters is just disgusting. Worst thing a scorer can do is turn himself into a volume 3 point shooter.

I think the Bulls need more guards and forwards that can handle and move towards a free flowing offense.

Leave the 3 point shooting to the specialists.

[BH8]

Shooting 3s does help with longevity. It's a lot easier on the body.

Rose will never be a great 3pt shooter. Him going beyond the arc is simply a recipe for inefficiency and for making it easy for the defense.

He may gain longetivity (not eve sure about that), but it would cost the Bulls games. If the Bulls want longetivity from Rose, they can limit his minutes to 30 MPG and have him attack during those minutes. It's a better strategy than having him shoot 3s.

[tclg]

He definitely needs 3 pt shot, he needs t be able to mix it up

[BH8]

He definitely needs 3 pt shot, he needs t be able to mix it up

Why does he need it? How did Jordan and Magic get along without being volume 3pt shooters? This guy is the MVP because he can get to the basket. If he continues to shoot 5-6 3s per game, he's just another good player in the league.

[Sebastian]

It's hard to win without 3pt shooters in the modern era. Last year if not for Rose's dramatic increase (and Deng's) the Bulls would have been one of the worst volume 3pt teams in the league.

Teams would just pack the paint and dare Rose to shoot.

This is the downside to signing Rip Hamilton. He's more of a mid-range guy, than 3pt floor spacer, to help Rose drive more. Though Rip did league the league in 3pt% one year and shot over 40% another year.

If I was Thibodeau, I would be moving Rip out to the arc a lot more, doing away with at least half of his endless running around, since he's no longer elite at that. The Bulls offense should be all about maximizing Rose, because it will in turn pay off for everyone else.

With Rip and Deng taking the threes, this would allow Rose to focus on taking it toward the rim more, and as a result of this, he would get more open mid-range shots as well. Which he was able to get more when Gordon was on the team spacing the floor, and even Hinrich/Salmons to some extent in 2010.

2 Games in Rose has shot 14 threes, Rip has shot 1. This is epic fail.

Rip can't hit 3s.

Over the last 4 years, he's taken more threes per game than at any stretch during his career and hit them at a 37% clip. That's pretty damn solid. Given the way Rose is double teamed, Rip could conceivably get more open threes this year than he ever has. There's no reason he shouldn't be hoisting 2-3 per game.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

"IDK, 33 percent volume 3 point shooters is just disgusting. Worst thing a scorer can do is turn himself into a volume 3 point shooter."

People have already mentioned he's more like 36% when he's not throwing it from half court. This is not hugely inefficient, and it seems at least like it's put a lot of pressure on defenders and thus improved his percentages on his other shots. He doesn't have a point guard setting him up for open looks either, and some of them are going to be forced shots with the ball in his hands and time running down on the shot clock.

Also, lebron is a pretty inefficient 3 point shooter, yet takes many 3s a game, and has sick TS% despite being a fairly weak free throw shooter. At least in DRose's case he's not all that efficient no matter what shots he's taking so shooting 3s doesn't hurt as much perhaps.

BTW, I think your use of paragraphs could be more efficient. Perhaps if you cut down on those, drose will follow your lead in the 3 pt department. I'm just kidding around here.

[BigBaller]

He went from passing too much in Memphis to shooting too much in Chicago. Can he balance?

[Rapcity_11]

Random points:

1. Wade had a 58.1 TS% last year, not 55.0%.
2. Going 10/30 on 3's is better than going 15/30 on 2's because of the extra offensive rebounds available which outweighs any fastbreak opportunities.
3. Yes, TS% applies to Rose.

[Godzilla039]

^^Nope. He spent the first two games of the season trying to be a playmaker. We barely beat LA then got abused by GSW. After the game he said f it, I'm going back to last years D.Rose

[Asianiac_24]

33% on 3s is equivalent to 50% on 2s...

[DumbyTheWizard]

HIS TS% may have gone up but it's only because his FT% was 77 in 09/10 and 86 in 10/11.

His eFG% which is a FG% + 3FG% fusion (likt TS% but without the FT%) was 49.5 in 09/10 and 48.5 in 10/11, so no, he was less efficient as a scorer in 10/11.

[Ortho Stice]

Three pointers are better than two point FGs because 3 > 2. And accurate three point shooting = easier for players to get two pointers in a half court offense b/c of less defenders b/c they're at the perimeter defending the more valuable shot. And easy two pointers = easier three pointers b/c defenders move in to guard two pointers leaving three point shooters open. So great three point shooting = easier two point looks = better three point looks = better two point looks, and so on. It's symbiotic. The Mavs showed the power of this theory in the finals.

[Zane]

I'm sure it's been said but he also shot a ton of last second 3's last year at the end of the periods. Sometimes it seemed like he would shoot 2-3 a game and miss most of them due to them being half court heaves.

Some of his 3 point shots are a little shaky but as long as he isn't "chucking" them as some of his haters say, then I'm okay with it.

[Bullsfan87]

I think it has to noted how that final % is reached.

If Rose shot 2/6 on threes every game to get his 33% I don't think there would be a major problem. Its far more likely though he'll go 4/6 one game and then 0/6 (or worse) the next.

Same end % but the Bulls probably lose that 2nd game through lack of scoring.

I'd rather Rose go back to his elite mid range game from year 2 and score reliably and consistently, combined with his now excellent ft shooting his TS would surely raise. I would only like to see him shoot 3s when wide open and set. 22pts consistently would be better than 25ppg erratically for the Bulls in my opinion.

[CousinOfDeath]

I don't know why he abandoned his mid range game. That was one of the strongest parts of his game. Look at the way CP3 plays. He kills people with his mid range shot. Derrick has that shot available to him at all times yet he never takes advantage of it. He should only shoot 3's in spot up situations, not off the dribble. He can make a small move and get somewhere on the court and shoot a mid range J whenever he wants, but he never does.

[Sunk Cost]

As alucryts said, there is a massive hole in your math, so it's hard to continue trying to argue this.

Stop using TS for Drose it doesn't apply.

Someone really ought to sig this.

Sig it and there is no massive hole in my math, i just said, he would be better off taking his midrange jumpers than 3 point shots. Which was the argument. So therefore I said, if he never took 3 point shots, and shot the midrange jumper as efficient as 2010, then he would be more efficient if he upped his number of free throw attempts and maintained his 85 percentage while taking a high number of free throws.

TS is a flawed stat to say someone was more efficient from the field. Meaning no fts. TS include FTs. TS is about more efficient scoring the ball, that is why it includes FTs.

TS is overrated because I can show you Drose and DWade TS and they are exactly the same, but one player shoots more efficiently from the line and another shoots efficient from the field. One gets to the line more and the other takes 5 3s a game.

Both got 550 TS percentage last season. Tell me which player is more efficient from the field using TS shooting?

eFG is a better state to measure efficiency and effective from the field. Derrick Rose eFG was the same as his Rookie Season and higher his 2010 season.

eFG don't count FTs.


and TS does not equal offensive efficiency and effectiveness from the field meaning 2 point shots and 3 points. It means efficiency scoring the ball through 3 point shooting, FTs and 2 point shots.

Derrick rose was an efficient scorer last season because of FREE THROWS. That's my argument, my argument is that the 3 point shot hinders his game because he's a better MIDRANGE SHOOTER THAN 3 POINT SHOOTER.


STOP RELYING ON TS, IT DOESN'T APPLY IN THIS SITUATION.

5 mid-range 2 point jump shots = 5*.44 = 2.2 FGM = 4.4 points
5 threes = 5*.33 = 1.65 FGM = 4.95 points

Or, if you use the more accurate 36%

5 threes = 5*.36 = 1.8 FGM = 5.4 points

I used 5 shots because apparently that is how many threes he took last year. It doesn't matter as long as you use the same amount for each type of shot. I also used standard arithmetic because it made the point more convincingly than the 5*.33 = 1.5 variety.

[Rerisen]

No one should be equating the LeBron and Wade "let's be disciplined" approach to D Rose.

LeBron/Wade have each other AND Chris Bosh on the team, of course they can generate alternate offense inside the arc. They fed Bosh for an entire quarter tonight and he generated 14 FT's on the night.

Rose could shoot a lot less threes if he had LeBron on the wing too.

The Bulls have Deng, who can't create, and Boozer, who has yet to prove he isn't a shell of himself since Utah. And the Bulls staff has yet to put Rip on the arc, and instead has him clogging Rose's lanes with his silly running around - he's no Ray Allen.

Which is not to say Rose should be launching 6+ threes a game like he's end of career Tim Hardaway, but he also does have to take some because of how the D plays him, and the more limitations on the Bulls offense and lack of other shooters to space the floor. 2-4 a game would be fine.

[Ronito]

The most efficient ways to score are behind the arc and at the free throw line. By saying Rose hurt his game by expanding it is like trying to disprove the Monty Hall problem.

IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT AND DO THIS AND THIS, IT MAKE SENSE.

Actually, no, it doesn't. In fact, his eFG% and TS% will be better going forward if he continues to make strides. you know, stats that matter unlike FG%.

[boogydown]

As long as Rose isn't massively chucking it, his 3PT Shot is a threat. If defenses want to leave him open, then fine. On good nights, he will make 4 to 5 3'. The other games, he shouldn't be shooting them.