Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 3

[careful]

What about James Johnson with a higher offensive potential as a comp for MKG?
I think both of them have a similar ability to wreck havoc on the defensive end. JJ actually also has decent handles and court vision for a big SF.

[Kid Canada]

We need a point guard more than anything.

Next years team will probably look like this is BC is lazy.

PG: Jose/Bayless
SG: Demar/Weems/Bayless
SF: Kleiza/JJ/Weems/Forbes
PF: Bargnani/Ed
C: Amir/Jonus/Magloire

I can see jose, ed or amir, bayless being traded. If we can package those three for a near superstar pg. Could Boston move Rondo? I dont want Westbrook. I think OKC has to get rid of either Harden or Westbrook. What about Jose, Ed, Bayless, JJ picks for Harden and Maynor and Aldrich?

Sign Nash.

PG: Nash/Maynor
SG: Harden/Weems
SF: Demar/Kleiza/Forbes
PF: Bargnani/Amir
C: Jonus/Aldridge/Magloire

[Mark_83]

I'm gonna dip my toes in the "get another pick to draft Myck Kabongo" pool.

Honestly, he'd probably be better off staying in school another year to work on his game, but if he's going to declare, I'd pick him up in a heartbeat. I think you throw a kid like that into a starting gig in his hometown, and especially a kid with his work ethic, and you pretty much force him to reach his potential.

draft MKG and Kabongo.

Kabongo
DeRozan
Kidd-Gilchrest
Bargnani
Valanciunas

That's a real team. Everyone has a well-defined role, and I think they're all well-suited to Casey's style of coaching.

that looks like a Detroit-style team - no superstars but (potentially) borderline allstars at most positions - throw in an Amir as the first big and say JJ as a defensive stopper - maybe a Bayless as a sparkplug offensive combo guard and you are looking interesting.

The question remains will be be possible to get that 2nd first round pick to take Kabongo - and while I hope yes, realistically it will be very difficult. If Ed shows improvement then *maybe* he's enough to get it done, depending on how Kabongo's season plays out and what range he ends up in.

If your rotation down the road is:

Myck / Jose / Bayless
Derozan / (Bayless) / (Weems??)
MKG / James J / (Weems??)
Bargs / Amir
Jonas / (Amir) / (Banging Vet)

You've got an interesting team with an interesting mix

I like the look of that team, and I've been saying all along that a Detroit model team (with 5 borderline all-stars instead of 1 or 2 superstars) is the type we should build. A team where the whole is better than the sum of it's parts. It is to hard to acquire a superstar, and even if we drafted one, he would probably want to leave for the States as soon as he could.

[Mark_83]

I'm officially on the MKG bandwagon.

At first I thought that Barnes would be a better fit on the wing with Derozan because of his shot, and the fact that we wouldn't want two guys on the wings who couldn't shoot.

But with Demar's improvement in shooting (and hopefully he continues to improve), that would seem like less of an issue now.

MKG now seems like the perfect compliment to Demar, and I think with the exception of shooting (which with his character and work ethic should improve like Demar), he brings more to the table than Barnes.

He's slightly more athletic, tougher and more tenacious, a better passer and ballhandler, he attacks the rim more, and plays off the ball better, and when he's not scoring he's doing other things on the floor.

Demar + MKG = SICK!

[Dr Positivity]

I'm guessing the guy we can get outside of the top 8 if we did well this season is Quincy Miller. Too many high end potential in this draft for the 3rd SF who's doing crappy in college to be taken to be higher than that, I think.

We're in a pretty solid spot as long as we don't finish *too* high. Drummond, Davis, Leonard, MKG, Barnes, Lamb, PJIII, Henson, Robinson makes NINE pretty big prospects and Sullinger, Young, A Thomas, Rivers, Beal having GM falls in love with them potential. With that in mind I'd say if we're picking 8th or 9th that there's a pretty reasonable chance one of Barnes/Lamb/PJIII falls if the other GMs feast on big men, which they will - and Miller is almost a sure thing as a fallback

I still think we're bottom 6 this year though. My best guess on the draft order is

1. Drummond
2. Davis
3. Leonard
4. MKG

Drummond, Davis and Leonard have the same things going for them. Athletic 7 footers with defensive anchor + good offense potential. I can see any of the 3 going #1 and it being a big 3 in some order and then everyone else type breakdown in consensus scouting

MKG appears to be emerging as the top perimeter guy over Lamb. Athleticism and physical talent like MKG usually takes over in these cases. MKG will be called future elite defender, rebounder, leader, etc. I see Lamb as the better prospect but MKG as getting drafted higher. After that I say

5. Henson
6. Barnes
7. Lamb
8. PJIII
9. Robinson

Henson is this year's Valanciunas. Not a sexy pick but a GM will be thinking that if he can get 10 pts, 10 rebounds and 2 blks C that's a great building block. Barnes can ride his high school hype to get over Lamb. Lamb is great offensive player and sure thing starting SG. PJIII is too talented to go below 8th or so despite enigma concerns. Robinson is the type of big who GMs love. Athletic, big, "able to develop" offensively. Better version of the Tristan Thompson pick who went 4th albeit in a better draft.

Then in the next group I'd put Beal, Miller, Sullinger, Rivers, Kabongo Adonis Thomas and James McAdoo if they declare. Of that group I think it's pretty obvious that we'd take Miller. So I would venture that our pick is Miller if we fall that low and someone like PJIII, Barnes or Lamb isn't available. I think Barnes is the most likely pick overall. MKG is probably out of our range if he's the top perimeter guy. Barnes can be had between 5 and 8 or 9 which is where I expect we'll be.

[CunningLinguist]

I'm guessing the guy we can get outside of the top 8 if we did well this season is Quincy Miller. Too many high end potential in this draft for the 3rd SF who's doing crappy in college to be taken to be higher than that, I think.

We're in a pretty solid spot as long as we don't finish *too* high. Drummond, Davis, Leonard, MKG, Barnes, Lamb, PJIII, Henson, Robinson makes NINE pretty big prospects and Sullinger, Young, A Thomas, Rivers, Beal having GM falls in love with them potential. With that in mind I'd say if we're picking 8th or 9th that there's a pretty reasonable chance one of Barnes/Lamb/PJIII falls if the other GMs feast on big men, which they will - and Miller is almost a sure thing as a fallback

I still think we're bottom 6 this year though. My best guess on the draft order is

1. Drummond
2. Davis
3. Leonard
4. MKG

Drummond, Davis and Leonard have the same things going for them. Athletic 7 footers with defensive anchor + good offense potential. I can see any of the 3 going #1 and it being a big 3 in some order and then everyone else type breakdown in consensus scouting

MKG appears to be emerging as the top perimeter guy over Lamb. Athleticism and physical talent like MKG usually takes over in these cases. MKG will be called future elite defender, rebounder, leader, etc. I see Lamb as the better prospect but MKG as getting drafted higher. After that I say

5. Henson
6. Barnes
7. Lamb
8. PJIII
9. Robinson

Henson is this year's Valanciunas. Not a sexy pick but a GM will be thinking that if he can get 10 pts, 10 rebounds and 2 blks C that's a great building block. Barnes can ride his high school hype to get over Lamb. Lamb is great offensive player and sure thing starting SG. PJIII is too talented to go below 8th or so despite enigma concerns. Robinson is the type of big who GMs love. Athletic, big, "able to develop" offensively. Better version of the Tristan Thompson pick who went 4th albeit in a better draft.

Then in the next group I'd put Beal, Miller, Sullinger, Rivers, Kabongo Adonis Thomas and James McAdoo if they declare. Of that group I think it's pretty obvious that we'd take Miller. So I would venture that our pick is Miller if we fall that low and someone like PJIII, Barnes or Lamb isn't available. I think Barnes is the most likely pick overall. MKG is probably out of our range if he's the top perimeter guy. Barnes can be had between 5 and 8 or 9 which is where I expect we'll be.

I'd be shocked if Perry Jones fell to #8. I think he'll be top 3 with Drummond and Davis. I can't see Henson going ahead of him either.

[JamesNaismith]

If anything I'll be shocked if Barnes isn't top 5.

He simply came in with TOO much hype to drop too far out. Someone in the top 5 will fall in love with the "potential" and love guys like Ford have given him for the past 2 years. Personally I just find it so hard to accept MKG as our pick. He just seems like a Gerald Wallace type of player to me.

[Young_Buc]

If anything I'll be shocked if Barnes isn't top 5.

He simply came in with TOO much hype to drop too far out. Someone in the top 5 will fall in love with the "potential" and love guys like Ford have given him for the past 2 years. Personally I just find it so hard to accept MKG as our pick. He just seems like a Gerald Wallace type of player to me.

I hear you, Barnes maybe shouldn't have gone to UNC. They NEVER have players who dominate college (MJ, Vince etc) but put up solid numbers and play a "team game" Antwan Jamison was probably the most dominant college player in recent memory. I do feel Barnes will succeed in the NBA but he looks so mundane.

I still maintain that Anthony Davis is the best freshman since Durant. He's better defensively ALREADY than Camby was in college and for those who can remember Camby was a MONSTER defensively.

He stays another year as #1 option and he's Tim Duncan.

[Dr Positivity]

Can't help but feel Perry Jones is very Greg Monroe-y. There was no excuse for Monroe to not be in the Cousins Favors group with his skill level and legit size, yet the "But he doesn't look to dominate in college! He's lackadasical! Look at his weak ppg as a college sophmore!" thing took over and then all of a sudden Wes Johnson and Ekpe Udoh were going over him

The history of the draft sides with GMs looking at a guy like Thomas Robinson and saying he can teach him how to play offense like Perry with his size and finishing ability and watching him run around finishing dunks in the workout stage, than looking at Perry and being able to teach him how to play D/rebound/work hard. Skill usually gets underrated in drafts when evaulating talent. Arrogant GMs and owners think a player's ability to add skill to his physical ability is unlimited. Thus the most talented physical players have the highest ceilings. Someone said a while ago that drafting GMs look at prospects like Michaelangelo looking at an unsculpted rock, they think they can turn any physical talent into a super skilled player. And this type of thinking is usually incredibly wrong but that's how it goes. Robinson's going to kill workouts and look like a mini Amare to them, and all of a sudden we're going to be shocked when Joe Dumars or Geoff Petrie takes him #5 over Jeremy Lamb and PJIII

And Leonard is just a different level of beast than Robinson. He's a 7 foot tall C, 10 reb/2 blk projecting, explosive athlete who's showing as much skill as pre draft Aldridge was. Looking at that prospect package I think the Leonard hype is going to explode at some point.

[JamesNaismith]

As for Leonard....someone is going to take a legit 7ftr in the top 10.


For me I want one of Drummond, Davis, PJ3, Barnes, Lamb, Miller (if healthy) or bust. Again I just haven't been able to "fall in love" with MKG the way other posters have. Not that I am with Barnes either but I have to admit his shooting and size will help.

[CunningLinguist]

Can't help but feel Perry Jones is very Greg Monroe-y. There was no excuse for Monroe to not be in the Cousins Favors group with his skill level and legit size, yet the "But he doesn't look to dominate in college! He's lackadasical! Look at his weak ppg as a college sophmore!" thing took over and then all of a sudden Wes Johnson and Ekpe Udoh were going over him

The history of the draft sides with GMs looking at a guy like Thomas Robinson and saying he can teach him how to play offense like Perry with his size and finishing ability and watching him run around finishing dunks in the workout stage, than looking at Perry and being able to teach him how to play D/rebound/work hard. Skill usually gets underrated in drafts when evaulating talent. Arrogant GMs and owners think a player's ability to add skill to his physical ability is unlimited. Thus the most talented physical players have the highest ceilings. Someone said a while ago that drafting GMs look at prospects like Michaelangelo looking at an unsculpted rock, they think they can turn any physical talent into a super skilled player. And this type of thinking is usually incredibly wrong but that's how it goes. Robinson's going to kill workouts and look like a mini Amare to them, and all of a sudden we're going to be shocked when Joe Dumars or Geoff Petrie takes him #5 over Jeremy Lamb and PJIII

And Leonard is just a different level of beast than Robinson. He's a 7 foot tall C, 10 reb/2 blk projecting, explosive athlete who's showing as much skill as pre draft Aldridge was. Looking at that prospect package I think the Leonard hype is going to explode at some point.

The difference being that Jones is much more athletic than Monroe.

Size+athleticism+skill=high pick

[princeofpalace]

Dr Mufasa

Why do you seem to be making the implication that Thomas Robinsn is not skilled? The man is an athletic freak but he is also very skilled offensively- he's not a guy who just runs and jumps and scores off of put backs. Robinson has a great jumper, hell he even can hit the occasion 3 point shot. He's got great footwork in the post and is looking very good on that end too. He's a skilled passer for a bigman and has great ball IQ. He also has the potential to be a defensive anchor on the next level. Thomas Robinson isn't a guy who is living off his athleticism, Bill Self has done an excellent job developing Robinson and he's only going to get better.

GM's should draft Robinson top 5 because of the incredible rare package of speed, power, defense & offensive skill and I would love for him to start at PF alongside Greg Monroe. Robinson is very underrated.

And a huge difference between Perry Jones and Monroe, is that in Monroes 2nd year of college he answered all the questions about his rebounding and activity level, PJ111 has not done that at all. Jones looks like the same player he was last season- and that was not the case with Greg. Greg was an underrated prospect but I think that was due to his lack of athleticism more than anything.

[CunningLinguist]

Teague and Wroten should be on our radar as possible selections if we don't get a top 3 pick. They both have a lot of potential if they smooth out the rough edges of their games.

Teague is overshadowed because of all of the talent on Kentucky and Wroten is off the radar because he plays on the west coast.

If Wroten works on this shooting and takes some of the streetball out of his game he could be really something. If his knee holds up, his floor could be a quicker, more athletic Jrue Holiday. He can really penetrate and he has good passing skills, he just has to play more under control.

[JamesNaismith]

Teague

[FluLikeSymptoms]

How has Beal looked today? Stats aren't nice. Boynton 2/7 from 3 in the 1st half.

[CunningLinguist]

Teague

Why the sigh?

[bboyskinnylegs]

Teague

Why the sigh?

because Teague has looked pretty bad this year

[CunningLinguist]

Teague

Why the sigh?

because Teague has looked pretty bad this year

I see a lot of potential. He's made more for the NBA game. He's got great quickness and breakdown ability. I know a lot of people would take someone like Kendal Marshall over him as a PG, but I think that would be extremely shortsighted. Marshall is a great passer but he lacks the quickness and athleticism to ever be a good penetrator or defender at the next level. Hell, he can't even do it in college.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

All of the wrong games are in HD again today on the sports pack. They never put UCONN or Kentucky on the HD channels.

Beal looking pretty aggressive in the 2nd.

[wanker]

Teague and Wroten should be on our radar as possible selections if we don't get a lottery pick. They both have a lot of potential if they smooth out the rough edges of their games.

Fixed. In other words, they shouldn't be on our radar (unless we plan on acquiring an additional first-rounder).