James Harden is a superstar

pancakes3 · Post #121 » by **pancakes3** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:17 pm

what's so "not quite" about harden's performance compared to manu?

lukekarts · Post #122 » by **lukekarts** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:34 pm

pancakes3 wrote:what's so "not quite" about harden's performance compared to manu?

Sustained level of performance, greater contribution to team success, post-season play.

Harden is not quite proven in the same way Manu is (Although the skillset is clearly there).

bastillon · Post #123 » by **bastillon** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:02 pm

lukekarts wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:what's so "not quite" about harden's performance compared to manu?

Sustained level of performance, greater contribution to team success, post-season play.

Harden is not quite proven in the same way Manu is (Although the skillset is clearly there).

I could make a sophisticated explanation focusing on many different aspects of your posts, but I'm going to answer with one word because you're an excellent poster and you'll know what I mean:

OPPORTUNITY

EtchenBa · Post #124 » by **EtchenBa** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:30 pm

That's kind of the point I feel a lot of people are trying to make. He hasn't had any opportunities yet, so it's premature to RIGHT NOW (as your topic title CLEARLY states) call James Harden a superstar. The level-headed people in here are not denying that Harden has the skillset or puts up the numbers of someone with superstar potential.

It's premature to say with such certainty the he currently is a superstar or that he currently could not and will not be a superstar.

bastillon · Post #125 » by **bastillon** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:39 am

at the same time, Harden despite limited opportunity, has produced wonderfully this year so far:

Offensive Win Shares
1. LeBron James-MIA 2.1
2. James Harden-OKC 2.0
3. Kobe Bryant-LAL 1.8
4. Derrick Rose-CHI 1.8
5. Greg Monroe-DET 1.7

bastillon · Post #126 » by **bastillon** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:02 am

Harden is playing a terrible game... Pietrus-KG pick and roll defense forced him to turn the ball over and he's not even particularly engaged offensively. I'm amazed how rarely he handles the ball.

Post #127 » by **tsherkin** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:05 am

bastillon wrote:Harden is playing a terrible game... Pietrus-KG pick and roll defense forced him to turn the ball over and he's not even particularly engaged offensively. I'm amazed how rarely he handles the ball.

This game is no different than his good games thus far; a small sample size from which little can be gleaned (apart from the fact that KG is still nasty when he's got bounce in his legs). I should honestly just lock this thread until the halfway mark of the season, lol.

bastillon · Post #128 » by **bastillon** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:14 am

I don't think sample size is making results skewed. I know you're sceptical of Harden's efficiency but as one poster said, Harden put up 130 ORTG last year after Jeff Green's departure. so despite sample being small, the results have been representative of Harden's value IMO. even in this game you can see how important Harden is to that team. without his contributions OKC's offense doesn't have any flow whatsoever. it's just Westbrook and Durant playing 1 on 1.

bastillon · Post #129 » by **bastillon** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:24 am

Westbrook is officially back. he became a borderline cancer in last year's WCFs and was terrible early this season. but he has finally regained shooting touch and that's why OKC is basically unstoppable with three stars like that.

lukekarts · Post #130 » by **lukekarts** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:51 am

Back to your earlier point 'OPPORTUNITY', that's pretty much where we agree, which is why I disagree that he is a superstar right now. If the topic was titled 'James Harden will be a superstar' then it would make more sense.

Curious as to your last post on Westbrook - surprised you jumped on the 'cancer' bandwagon for a short period and one game has made you change your mind. Either you're being sarcastic or you're being slightly susceptible to small sample sizes. I've stood by Westbrook's value all the time.

shawngoat23 · Post #131 » by **shawngoat23** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:01 am

James Harden is a very underrated player. I wouldn't call him a superstar, but he has the skills and basketball IQ. I'd much rather have him on a championship contender than his more heralded teammate Russell Westbrook.

DreDay · Post #132 » by **DreDay** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:12 am

shawngoat23 wrote:James Harden is a very underrated player. I wouldn't call him a superstar, but he has the skills and basketball IQ. I'd much rather have him on a championship contender than his more heralded teammate Russell Westbrook.

Underrated? He's probably the most overrated player on the board.

bastillon · Post #133 » by **bastillon** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:36 pm

lukekarts wrote:Back to your earlier point 'OPPORTUNITY', that's pretty much where we agree, which is why I disagree that he is a superstar right now. If the topic was titled 'James Harden will be a superstar' then it would make more sense.

Curious as to your last post on Westbrook - surprised you jumped on the 'cancer' bandwagon for a short period and one game has made you change your mind. Either you're being sarcastic or you're being slightly susceptible to small sample sizes. I've stood by Westbrook's value all the time.

Harden is very productive right now and that's undeniable. but I called him a superstar talent-wise. of course if you're gonna make Jordan shoot 10 FGA he's not gonna be a "superstar" either, except that his status will be sort of incorrect.

as for Westbrook, he's been playing better recently in general because he's making midrange shots and he's not turning the ball over 7 times a game. he was just amazingly bad at the start of the season, he's picked that up now. it's not a matter of one game, it's a matter of playing well for several games vs not being able to make a good play for several games.

Regulio · Post #134 » by **Regulio** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:41 pm

Westbrick needs to grow up and Harden so far is locked for 6th man award imo.
He won't become a star until there is Westbrook AND Durant on his team I believe. But maybe that's a perfect role for him.

lilojmayo · Post #135 » by **lilojmayo** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:24 am

Regulio wrote:Westbrick needs to grow up and Harden so far is locked for 6th man award imo.
He won't become a star until there is Westbrook AND Durant on his team I believe. But maybe that's a perfect role for him.

PER 36 minutes in January. Here comes OJ Mayo lurking ( and did outplay Harden is last matchup)

OJ Mayo

18.3 PPG 5.8 RPG 2.7 APG 1.4 spg 45.5% FG 46.4 % 3pt 73.7% FT

James Harden
16.4 PPG 3.6 RPG 3.4 APG 1.1 spg 46.2% FG 40.4% 3pt 86 % FT

as of 6th man of the year power rankings should be

1. Louis Williams
2. James Harden
3. Jamal Crawford
4. Jason Terry
5. OJ Mayo

if oj saw more minutes ( which is will happen), and Grizz keep winning ( like they have been), he will steal this award. It helps that Westbrook chucking again and it is hurting Harden's stats.

Post #136 » by **tsherkin** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:13 pm

Let's wait until he strings more than 4 or 5 games together where he's competent, let alone significant in his impact, before we start adding Mayo into a discussion of potential 6th Man material... particularly with how Harden has been playing.

Lou Williams was a good call, though.

Krodis · Post #137 » by **Krodis** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:55 pm

Harden now, 17 games in:

PER: 23.3 (8th)
TS%: .657 (4th)
Win Shares: 2.8 (4th) (Behind LeBron, Love, and Kobe)
OWS: 2.4 (2nd) (Behind LeBron)
WS/48: .274 (2nd) (Behind LeBron)
ORTG: 127.9 (2nd)

Post #138 » by **tsherkin** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:48 pm

At this point, an update every couple of games isn't super useful. It's great that he continues t play way, but let's wait until the All-Star break and re-evaluate then.

bastillon · Post #139 » by **bastillon** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:15 pm

but what do you think about these numbers anyway ?

old rem · Post #140 » by **old rem** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:37 pm

So far...Harden has never had 17 ppg a whole season,has never ranked top 2 on his own team in scoring-rebounds-assists. He's sharing SG with Thabo because Thabo is better on D.

To say he's a "Superstar" is to say there's about 30 superstars in the NBA.