The Javale McGee Appreciation Thread

[MF23]

McGee's been the most productive player this year and he's 23 yrs old.

[Nivek]

McGee's been the most productive player this year and he's 23 yrs old.

When you combine all the data, it's not so conclusive. He's been the most productive in terms of rebounds and blocks. He also turns the ball over more frequently than Blatche, and he's been awful from the FT line. Net result is that despite the team's top efg, his overall efficiency is bad -- just 98 points produced per 100 possessions. (Bad in this sense refers to the rest of the league's standards -- for the Wizards, a 98 ranks 5th and it's 5 points per 100 possessions better than the team average.)

The data from Synergy says McGee is the team's worst man defender. Despite the blocks.

The on/off data shows the Wizards at -20 per 100 possessions when he's on the floor vs. -3.5 when he's off. The team has been worse both offensively and defensively by WIDE margins when he's been on the floor this season.

Now, it's early. The sample size is still small. His teammates suck. All those caveats. I understand all that. I'm not saying anything definitive here. Just that there's no reason to get simple and reductive at this point. "Most productive and he's 23..." might be meaningful and it might not. There's no reason to rush into re-signing him right now. Pump the brakes, let the season wear on, and see what he does.

Some of what he does looks great. Some of what he does is worrisome. Give it time to see whether the "great" part takes over or whether he stays where he is.

[cwb3]

I can't add much more to what has already been said in this thread.
To summarize, I do see signs of actual progress and development in McGee's game.
Mainly on offense, but also on defense in that he bites less on pump fakes than before.
There are still MANY holes in his game, namely 1) the ability to pass out of a double team, 2) the ability to kick back a pass and re-post for better position. On defense, 1) he still loses his assignment too much and seems flustered by pick and rolls, 2) needs to find his man and block out to secure defensive rebounds. Overall he still needs better court vision and awareness of how a play is developing, on both sides of the ball. He overall looks improved from last season, and that surprises/pleases me somewhat. Still need to see a LOT more development over the course of this season before I would consider throwing money to try to keep him beyond the current contract.

[llcc25]

McGee's been the most productive player this year and he's 23 yrs old.

Based on this metric, Nic Young was arguably are most productive player last year. So we should've have locked him up early this season as some of you suggested. How would that have turned out? I think the consensus was that he was not worth more than the midlevel and its really turning out that we made a the right move. His flaws, passing, defense, bad shot selection don't make him at anything more than the midlevel...By that same token, McGee's flaws IMO don't make him worth the $10-11m/year payday he will be seeking. More importantly, if we get the #1 pick and draft Davis, having McGee alongside of Davis is asking for trouble.

[pancakes3]

it's a lot different to pay nick 9 mil than paying mcgee 11 mil.

[dandridge 10]

I agree 100% with Nivek. McGee has certainly improved this year and that is encouraging. And he is definitely a freak athlete, and has the ability to change the game on both ends of the court. However, there are things that cause me concern that is ability will not translate to wins. He doesn't seem to have the highest BBIQ. Moreover, as everyone knows, he seems more concerned with style and highlight plays than just doing what needs to be done to win basketball games. I just don't see that competitive fire in McGee to win. I could be wrong, but I think it is more important to Mcgee that he gets noticed, that it is for the team to win. For those reasons, I would be cautious with McGee and wait for more signs that "he gets it" before I throw a lot of money at him. Bottom line, McGee is certainly talented...I'm jut not sure he is the type of winning player that you build around.

I will add that if we are lucky enough to land Davis in the draft, I would strongly consider trading McGee to get other pieces that we need. To me, I think Davis is a better version of McGee. He is close athletically, but appears to have a much better BBIQ, more coachability and a competitive desire to win. I also see Davis more as a C than a PF. McGee should have plenty of value to land a quality player or two at other positions of need. Just my opinion.

[theboomking]

McGee's been the most productive player this year and he's 23 yrs old.

When you combine all the data, it's not so conclusive. He's been the most productive in terms of rebounds and blocks. He also turns the ball over more frequently than Blatche, and he's been awful from the FT line. Net result is that despite the team's top efg, his overall efficiency is bad -- just 98 points produced per 100 possessions. (Bad in this sense refers to the rest of the league's standards -- for the Wizards, a 98 ranks 5th and it's 5 points per 100 possessions better than the team average.)

The data from Synergy says McGee is the team's worst man defender. Despite the blocks.

The on/off data shows the Wizards at -20 per 100 possessions when he's on the floor vs. -3.5 when he's off. The team has been worse both offensively and defensively by WIDE margins when he's been on the floor this season.
Now, it's early. The sample size is still small. His teammates suck. All those caveats. I understand all that. I'm not saying anything definitive here. Just that there's no reason to get simple and reductive at this point. "Most productive and he's 23..." might be meaningful and it might not. There's no reason to rush into re-signing him right now. Pump the brakes, let the season wear on, and see what he does.

Some of what he does looks great. Some of what he does is worrisome. Give it time to see whether the "great" part takes over or whether he stays where he is.

McGee's stats make him look much better than he is. I see a lot of people talk as if McGee is a ppor man, but a good help defender. The truth is, McGee is a poor defender. We were one of the worst teams in the league at defending the rim last year, and McGee was a huuuuge part of that. He has no defensive awareness, and doesn't rotate.

Maybe McGee will get better, but I think that the best thing about McGee is that he has enough size, athleticism and statistics to tantalize another team. I've felt for a while that McGee's best value to us is as a trade chip. I'd like to see us lock him up in a front loaded deal, so that we have the ability to use that chip.

Nivek, from what site did you pull the bolded stats. Any idea how Wall stacks up in those areas?

[queridiculo]

I really wish Washington had a chance to evaluate McGee under a different coach, but based on what I've seen so far I would be inclined to just move on and let somebody else try to unlock his potential.

For all the glitz/stats, there's the immaturity and all the signs that he doesn't really understand what it takes to win basketball games. I don't know if that's on him for not caring enough, or on the coaches for not stressing it enough, but for a player with his tools he should be much farther ahead in the areas that really make a difference in the win column.

His defense has gone from simply awful to bad. It's an improvement, but for somebody in his 4th year is that really enough to warrant a deal that will likely have him earning $10 million a year?

McGee's contract could very well sink the rebuilding effort and based on McGee's personality I'm not sure that's a risk the organization should take.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

after watching yesterday's game, I'm not completely sold on McGee as many on this board. Yes, he has immense talent. But for every 2 great plays, he makes 2 horrible ones. Not to mention the fact that his defensive positioning is horrible. He's more concerned about making the spectacular block, than playing solid post and help defense. Based on this, I"m not sure I'd be williong to committ long term from the Wiz perspective. I'd rather do it for someone like Greg Monroe. Hey maybe we get #1 pick, and w/trade McGee to Detroit and for Monroe and use their pick for Sullinger...Saves us a lot of money short term. And then we go hard after E. Gordon or Harden and Batum...

Part of the positioning problem is that he needs a bodyguard. That's why you can't pair Anthony Davis with McGee. That's why Blatche is not a good fit next to JaVale either.

McGee is not great. He is a below average defender at times, despite the blocks. His field goal percentage is slightly down and his free throw shooting is very poor this season. OTOH, 12.0 points, 10.1 rebounds, 3.2 blocks over 30 minutes from a 23-year old C is going to get him paid by some GM whose team is way better than the Wizards.

I think evaluating McGee in a vacuum, which he practically is in playing alongside Andray Blatche, is not a good idea. If Javale had a true inside presence and an energetic PF who made opponents expend energy at both ends of the floor, maybe then McGee's flaws wouldn't be so glaring. If this team didn't lack poise, leadership, and overall experience at guard; perhaps there wouldn't be so much attention on McGee when he gaffes. Seems like bad shots and no rotations is the way of the Wizards.

I champion McGee, but I see flaws with his game. There are lots of them.

At the same time, look at where McGee is at 24 and compare that with Tyson Chandler at 24. By that time he was in his sixth NBA season. This is McGee's fourth. Check out the difference between Chandler's last season with the Bulls and his first season with the New Orlean's Hornets.

Talent around Chandler made a difference, IMO.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... dty01.html

I think McGee needs to look after his own best interest and leave the Wizards because the coach and many of the fans of this team simply don't see what he has to offer. He will be MUCH better with different teammates IMO.

What I HOPE happens is the Wizards replace Saunders and Grunfeld and get a great PF in this draft; and they re-sign McGee to a decent deal. That said, I think Javale will do better elsewhere.

[Brenice]

A great physical PF, not a finesse. Don't resign Nick. Get rid of Blatche somehow, or keep him on the second unit. We need a 2-guard and a PF.

People hold Blatche more accountable than Nick. Nick is more of a bad influence on JaVale than Blatche is. You can see Blatche trying. He is also saying the right things this year at least. Nick, all he tries to do is shoot, smile, and laugh at JaVale and condone and encourage him to remain immature.

[Nivek]

The on/off data shows the Wizards at -20 per 100 possessions when he's on the floor vs. -3.5 when he's off. The team has been worse both offensively and defensively by WIDE margins when he's been on the floor this season.

Nivek, from what site did you pull the bolded stats. Any idea how Wall stacks up in those areas?

Sorry, meant to include that. http://basketballvalue.com/index.php

Good site that's kinda-sorta similar to 82games. 82games has the data broken down more ways, but BV updates every day.

[theboomking]

I think evaluating McGee in a vacuum, which he practically is in playing alongside Andray Blatche, is not a good idea. If Javale had a true inside presence and an energetic PF who made defenses expend energy at both ends of the floor, maybe then McGee's flaws wouldn't be so glaring. If this team didn't lack poise, leadership, and overall experience at guard; perhaps there wouldn't be so much attention on McGee when he gaffes. Seems like bad shots and no rotations is the way of the Wizards.

I agree with this to a degree. The problem with looking at on/off stats for the Wizards starters is that the starters are basically always going to have terrible 'on' stats because Blatche, Lewis, Singleton and Vesely aren't NBA caliber starters. We are basically playing 3 on 5 against the better teams. The backups at least generally, seem to be NBA caliber backups, so the 'off' stats for the starters will be relatively less terrible.

Also, on a team that is continually losing by a large margin, you would expect the players that are playing the most minutes to have the worst plus minus. Obviously, that implicates McGee even further for posting such a terrible plus minus in such limited minutes.

The on/off data shows the Wizards at -20 per 100 possessions when he's on the floor vs. -3.5 when he's off. The team has been worse both offensively and defensively by WIDE margins when he's been on the floor this season.

Again, I'm not sure this is the best way to evaluate McGee if you don't also include the on/off stats of the rest of the starters in your evaluation. I think the best measure of McGee is how terrible our team defense is in terms of at the rim finishing percentage, and how the defense never looks a whiff better with JaVale on the floor.

[cdouglas]

Best to enjoy McGee as much as you can now because I seriously don't believe he'll resign with the Wizards. We'll see him at his best in another team's uniform because that's the history of this franchise. Oh yeah, all of those Wizards basher, who tell us that we need to get rid of all of the players on this team except for Wall will be praising McGee's game. I would rather do away with the PG than a big man. You just don't find bigs that have the athleticism of McGee. If McGee had the training from a a proven big man's coach like Howard did w/Ewing and Bynum w/Kareem, I'm sure we would be reaping the same benefits. I would prefer that this team was built around McGee than Wall.

So you would rather have a team built around a Center, who can't defend the low post, is mostly out of position, doesn't have a offensive post move, and can't rebound better than an unathletic PF in Love? At a minimum right now, there should be no reason McGee should not be leading the league in rebounds. If he was, maybe I'd cut him some slack on his lack of post offense and defense...He's so focused on getting the block that he is mostly always out of position.. YOu can't have that from your center.

This leads me to believe he's not getting the proper training. A couple of years ago this franchise bought in a shooting coach and the team's shooting improved. If this franchise would spend the money to bring in a big man's coach to work with our bigs maybe they would learn how to play in the post.

[Nivek]

Again, I'm not sure this is the best way to evaluate McGee if you don't also include the on/off stats of the rest of the starters in your evaluation. I think the best measure of McGee is how terrible our team defense is in terms of at the rim finishing percentage, and how the defense never looks a whiff better with JaVale on the floor.

I'm not using the on/off numbers in a vacuum, but as one piece of an overall evaluation -- which includes watching a huge majority of his entire Wizards career. And, his on/off numbers are the worst of all starters. And, just to be clear, I'm not "blaming" McGee for the on/off numbers. The data says the team has been worse while McGee is on the floor, NOT that McGee is personally responsible for the team being worse.

That said, some of the other data I posted suggests some possible reasons that are related to McGee -- turnovers, missed free throws, and chasing blocks at the expense of playing solid positional D.

[nate33]

McGee's on/off numbers were fantastic last year. I suspect we have some sample size issues this year. Also, McGee only plays against starters. We've had a few games (the Toronto game for instance) when our backups abused the opposition's backups. Our backups have also made a lot of "comebacks" during 4th quarter garbage time.

[Nivek]

All factors, I agree, nate. I'm just saying -- pump the brakes with the contract talk. There's no rush, and there's a lot of games still to play. The team is -20 per 100 possessions when McGee is on the floor this season.

Also, the "minutes against starters" factor shouldn't have much effect from last year to this year. MikeG over at APBRmetrics developed a formula to estimate what percentage of a player's minutes came against starters. That formula estimates that last season 79% of McGee's minutes came against starters. This year: 80%.

[Brenice]

Before Blatche and Lewis were demoted to the second unit, who among the starters besides Wall and McGee were attempting to defend? Nick? McGee is not perfect defensively, but he sure covers/erases the mistakes defensively of others and nobody covers for him. So if you gonna +-him, consider who he played with as a starter those first 9 or so games.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I think evaluating McGee in a vacuum, which he practically is in playing alongside Andray Blatche, is not a good idea. If Javale had a true inside presence and an energetic PF who made defenses expend energy at both ends of the floor, maybe then McGee's flaws wouldn't be so glaring. If this team didn't lack poise, leadership, and overall experience at guard; perhaps there wouldn't be so much attention on McGee when he gaffes. Seems like bad shots and no rotations is the way of the Wizards.

I agree with this to a degree. The problem with looking at on/off stats for the Wizards starters is that the starters are basically always going to have terrible 'on' stats because Blatche, Lewis, Singleton and Vesely aren't NBA caliber starters. We are basically playing 3 on 5 against the better teams. The backups at least generally, seem to be NBA caliber backups, so the 'off' stats for the starters will be relatively less terrible.

Also, on a team that is continually losing by a large margin, you would expect the players that are playing the most minutes to have the worst plus minus. Obviously, that implicates McGee even further for posting such a terrible plus minus in such limited minutes.

The on/off data shows the Wizards at -20 per 100 possessions when he's on the floor vs. -3.5 when he's off. The team has been worse both offensively and defensively by WIDE margins when he's been on the floor this season.

Again, I'm not sure this is the best way to evaluate McGee if you don't also include the on/off stats of the rest of the starters in your evaluation. I think the best measure of McGee is how terrible our team defense is in terms of at the rim finishing percentage, and how the defense never looks a whiff better with JaVale on the floor.

Seraphin's a better defender right now at C than Javale IMO.

I think Flip is a bad coach for never playing McGee with Seraphin.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I think evaluating McGee in a vacuum, which he practically is in playing alongside Andray Blatche, is not a good idea. If Javale had a true inside presence and an energetic PF who made defenses expend energy at both ends of the floor, maybe then McGee's flaws wouldn't be so glaring. If this team didn't lack poise, leadership, and overall experience at guard; perhaps there wouldn't be so much attention on McGee when he gaffes. Seems like bad shots and no rotations is the way of the Wizards.

I agree with this to a degree. The problem with looking at on/off stats for the Wizards starters is that the starters are basically always going to have terrible 'on' stats because Blatche, Lewis, Singleton and Vesely aren't NBA caliber starters. We are basically playing 3 on 5 against the better teams. The backups at least generally, seem to be NBA caliber backups, so the 'off' stats for the starters will be relatively less terrible.

Also, on a team that is continually losing by a large margin, you would expect the players that are playing the most minutes to have the worst plus minus. Obviously, that implicates McGee even further for posting such a terrible plus minus in such limited minutes.

The on/off data shows the Wizards at -20 per 100 possessions when he's on the floor vs. -3.5 when he's off. The team has been worse both offensively and defensively by WIDE margins when he's been on the floor this season.

Again, I'm not sure this is the best way to evaluate McGee if you don't also include the on/off stats of the rest of the starters in your evaluation. I think the best measure of McGee is how terrible our team defense is in terms of at the rim finishing percentage, and how the defense never looks a whiff better with JaVale on the floor.

Seraphin's a better defender right now at C than Javale IMO.

I think Flip is a bad coach for never attempting to play McGee with Seraphin. There would be fouls and awkward moments on the court, but on the other side of the coin there would be size with athleticism. McGee's defensive rotations wouldn't be a problem.

I think Brenice hit the nail on the head. McGee is a finesse player and so is Andray Blatche. Both of them need a banger next to them in the lineup to inject needed physicality.

[GhostsOfGil]

Mcgee may not be the smartest guy in the league but he sure does know how to work the media..

http://dimemag.com/2012/01/top-5-javale ... unk-fails/