The Lebron Thread

SideshowBob · Post #101 » by **SideshowBob** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:24 am

I think the earlier clutch struggles this year (namely @LAC) had nothing to do with it being clutch. He had a poor night from the line from the word GO and that just continued into the fourth and OT. Tonight he looked like he usually does at the end of games at the line. I started laughing when the Detroit announcer talked about clutch free throws being a problem for Lebron. I guess no one realized that last year he missed all of one FT in the last two minutes, over the course of the season.

IG2 · Post #102 » by **IG2** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:44 am

SideshowBob wrote:I think the earlier clutch struggles this year (namely @LAC) had nothing to do with it being clutch.

I'm assuming you're referring to his FT struggles, because he does have legitimate crunch time issues otherwise.

I started laughing when the Detroit announcer talked about clutch free throws being a problem for Lebron.

Very little that gets said about LeBron has any basis in fact. It's almost entirely perception based. Pretty much everyone still refers to him as this athletic "beast", they all still say he's "settling" when he takes a jumper, they all still think his game's largely based around attacking, they all think late-game issues have been a career-long thing for him and I could keep going. 90% of NBA fans are clueless about LeBron.

SideshowBob · Post #103 » by **SideshowBob** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:03 am

It's like that with all facets of his game. In 2009 when he started making the All-Defensive teams (two years too late IMHO), I remember a lot of people laughing and saying that highlight-reel chasedown blocks wasn't good enough to be making the team. At that point, I was convinced that people don't actually watch Lebron play outside of a few nationally televised games, and judge his abilities based off of Sportscenter

SideshowBob · Post #104 » by **SideshowBob** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:35 am

And for everybody saying that Lebron needs to be at this weight in order to play in the post, take a look at this video. Particularly 1:41 and 2:16. Even at that size, he was bullying Artest around easily down low; I don't think he needs to be his current size to be effective in the post. In fact, losing weight could make him more effective as he'd be able to take advantage of his quickness as well as his strength, as opposed to just strength.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiN_HjdybKw&feature=related[/youtube]

Also, be sure to check out 3:56, just for an example of his excellent body control when in the air, another thing he doesn't have anymore

Edrees · Post #105 » by **Edrees** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:58 pm

Kobe and Lebron are complete opposites. Kobe will shoot too much and ignore a bad shooting night, when he should shoot less but still shoot. Lebron will completely stop shooting if it's not going on, when he should shoot less but still shoot. They both need to do the same thing to maximize their talents but are taking a completely opposite approach.

toodles23 · Post #106 » by **toodles23** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:34 am

The game isn't quite over yet, but this is the most athletic Lebron's looked in a Heat uniform. His jumper's been a little off the last several games though, and he's been a turnover machine. His ball handling has been suspect this season, he seems to lose his dribble way more often than before.

Lebron's gotten in a nice groove on FTs lately, that's good to see.

SideshowBob · Post #107 » by **SideshowBob** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:48 am

Yeah, noticed the FT groove. He's backing up a little past the free throw line before each shot. Ehh, whatever works. Jumpers definitely been off for a while, but it'll show up later in the season.

His numbers have been down since the ankle injury though, mainly the huge rise in turnovers.

Pre-Ankle
Code: Select all
G FG FGA FG% FT FTA TRB AST TOV PTS GmSc TS% 7 11.1 18.7 .595 7.6 9.6 7.7 7.4 2.9 29.9 27.4 .651

Post-ankle

Code: Select all
G FG FGA FG% FT FTA TRB AST TOV PTS GmSc TS% 11 10.3 19.7 .521 7.3 9.9 8.2 6.9 4.5 28.8 23.0 .598

He's been turning the ball over like crazy. 4.6 times per game is alarming, that's a turnover rate of 12.8%. He's also not shooting nearly as well from the field. Minutes have gone up as well, so scoring rate is down

IG2 · Post #108 » by **IG2** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:44 am

toodles23 wrote:The game isn't quite over yet, but this is the most athletic Lebron's looked in a Heat uniform.

Hmm, I have felt quite the opposite. I know he had that one good dunk in the 1st qtr in the half-court(bad D by NY), but over the last 3-4 games, he's more and more looked like his last season's self to me. His legs look dead. There's no spring to his step when he puts the ball on the floor. I'm beginning to think the somewhat bouncy LeBron we saw over the first 15 games of the season was mostly a mirage. And on an even graver note, he looks about the same size he was in his last season as a Cavalier. I don't know if I can still attribute all of his regressed ability on weight. Last season? Sure. But this season? The difference looks minimal.

His jumper's been a little off the last several games though

He tweaked his release a bit this season. I attribute his inconsistency to that.

Lebron's gotten in a nice groove on FTs lately, that's good to see.

Yep. I said this to you on ISH, he's always had small stretches every season where he's just abysmal from the FT line, but reverts back to normal soon.

SideshowBob · Post #109 » by **SideshowBob** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:53 am

I dunno. the first 15 games gave me hope, and with this intense shortened season, we're seeing everyone run on tired legs. Perhaps he just needs a day or two off. We'll see going forward though.

Noticed the difference in his release, don't get why he had to change up what was already working last year.

The FT thing is just mental with him I guess. Like IG2 said, he has small stretches every season and then gets back to normal. In the ECF last year he was shooting it at like 84-85ish, then in the Finals he reverts to low 70s. It's irritating

kooldude · Post #110 » by **kooldude** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:22 am

Lebron is 27; it would be dishonest to think that he hasn't decline in athleticism after all this wear and tear.

To those that say you see stretches where he's just as athletic as in the past: that's what happens when you age, you don't just flat-out look like a different person, you start to have bad days with days where you feel like your young self and vice versa.

Lebron def doesn't have the same acceleration and explosiveness as in the past. But he's so damn athletic that he can still do most of his amazing plays.

toodles23 · Post #111 » by **toodles23** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:36 am

IG2 wrote:Hmm, I have felt quite the opposite. I know he had that one good dunk in the 1st qtr in the half-court(bad D by NY), but over the last 3-4 games, he's more and more looked like his last season's self to me. His legs look dead. There's no spring to his step when he puts the ball on the floor. I'm beginning to think the somewhat bouncy LeBron we saw over the first 15 games of the season was mostly a mirage. And on an even graver note, he looks about the same size he was in his last season as a Cavalier. I don't know if I can still attribute all of his regressed ability on weight. Last season? Sure. But this season? The difference looks minimal.

I'll admit that observation may have been influenced by all the flashy dunks, but he was beating guys off the dribble tonight. It is the Knicks, I'll have to see the highlights.

So what do you attribute the loss to? Simple wear and tear/age?

And what's going on with his ball handling? It's sucked this year, he's losing his dribble all the time and his turnovers are through the roof.

He tweaked his release a bit this season. I attribute his inconsistency to that.

He seems to change something about his shot every year. Hopefully this works out for the better, his shot looks purer than ever but the results haven't come yet. He started off even slower from midrange last year, but caught fire post allstar break.

SideshowBob · Post #112 » by **SideshowBob** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:36 pm

He started this season with the turnovers in check. Up until the ankle injury in the Indiana game, he was at 2.9 per game, a TO% of 8.7% which is right in line with his 05-10 numbers. He came back in that New Jersey game and turned the ball over 8 times, and since then, he's been a turnover machine. A lot of them are "bad passes" but he's been losing his handle quite a lot this year; he's been giving up a lot of steals. He's put up a TO% of 13% since then, which is just outrageously bad. He could be producing points in those possessions

IG2 · Post #113 » by **IG2** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:05 pm

toodles23 wrote:
So what do you attribute the loss to? Simple wear and tear/age?

I'm not a big believer in "mileage", but in this case, I don't know what else it could be. LeBron has played more minutes at his age than anyone in NBA history, and then you include 4 Team USA stints to that + the physically grueling style of ball he's always played, it has to be wear and tear. Because there's not much difference in size between current LeBron and '10 LeBron. Yet there's a world of difference in athleticism. The talk back in his Cleveland days used to be that all that running and jumping at his size would be a killer for those knees, and that he could decline sooner than your average NBA player. Maybe that's what we're seeing?

And what's going on with his ball handling? It's sucked this year, he's losing his dribble all the time and his turnovers are through the roof.

For whatever reason he's having a hard time protecting his dribble in 1-on-1 situations. Defenders are getting their hands all over his dribble, forcing him to dribble with his back to them 30-40 feet away from the basket, which is pretty gay for this era.

his shot looks purer than ever

It's good, but seems like the ball is coming from the side of his hand sometimes. Especially on his set jumpers from the right side of the court. Personally I thought his release looked best in the 2nd half of '09 and all of last season.

SideshowBob · Post #114 » by **SideshowBob** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:15 pm

IG2 wrote:I'm not a big believer in "mileage", but I don't see what else could it be in this case. LeBron has played more minutes at his age than anyone in NBA history, and then you include 4 Team USA stints to that + the physically grueling style of ball he's always played, it has to be wear and tear. Because there's not much difference in size between current LeBron and '10 LeBron. Yet there's a world of difference in athleticism. The talk back in his Cleveland days used to be that all that running and jumping at his size would be a killer for those knees, and that he could decline sooner than your average NBA player. Maybe that's what we're seeing?

Certainly a possibility. As I said earlier, because of a shortened season, I won't come to this conclusion yet, but it can't be ruled out either.

For whatever reason he's having a hard time protecting his dribble in 1-on-1 situations. Defenders are getting their hands all over his dribble, forcing him to dribble with his back to them 30-40 feet away from the basket, which is pretty gay for this era.

This was an occurrence last year as well, when his turnovers began to shoot up. Though last year we also saw a lot of offensive fouls from him. This year, he's only had 3 (1 last night and 2 by the 82games.com count)

It's good, but seems like the ball is coming from the side of his hand sometimes. Especially on his set jumpers from the right side of the court.

Noticed this, it doesn't seem as centered as it did last year. The problem is that he keeps tweaking it when he should be keeping it consistent if it's clear that it's been working

Personally I thought his release looked best in the 2nd half of '09 and all of last season.

Which isn't a coincidence as those are his two best jumpshooting stretches to date.

IG2 · Post #115 » by **IG2** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:34 pm

The Reinforcement Game?

Everything that happened in today's playoff-like Bulls-Heat game was LeBron basically confirming everything we have been saying about him in this thread.

Picks up a lot of easy buckets in transition to maintain high FG%? Check.
Looks terrific when shooting jumpers? Check.
Hopeless while driving in the half-court? Double check.
Gagging late? Check!

If LeBron didn't mess up up so badly in the last minute, this would have been his best game of the season IMO. He was really carrying the team in the 2nd half, made a lot of momentum changing/halting jumpers, then blew it in the final minute with the world watching. Lucky for him, Rose was having an uncharacteristically gag-filled night himself.

SideshowBob · Post #116 » by **SideshowBob** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:59 pm

IG2 wrote:The Reinforcement Game?

Everything that happened in today's playoff-like Bulls-Heat game was LeBron basically confirming everything we have been saying about him in this thread.

Picks up a lot of easy buckets in transition to maintain high FG%? Check.
Looks terrific when shooting jumpers? Check.
Hopeless while driving in the half-court? Double check.
Gagging late? Check!

If LeBron didn't mess up up so badly in the last minute, this would have been his best game of the season IMO. He was really carrying the team in the 2nd half, made a lot of momentum changing/halting jumpers, then blew it in the final minute with the world watching. Lucky for him, Rose was having an uncharacteristically gag-filled night himself.

Only caught the first half. Looked like he was in a funk at the line from the start. Expected, considering how well he shot the last 2 or 3 games.

Didn't even see any drives in the first half, I'm watching the 2nd now and I'll try to keep note. He had 9 in the fourth from what I can tell, but what happened down the stretch? Missed shots?

IG2 · Post #117 » by **IG2** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:09 am

SideshowBob wrote:Only caught the first half. Looked like he was in a funk at the line from the start. Expected, considering how well he shot the last 2 or 3 games.

He was splitting his free throws every trip, but missed BOTH at the end of the game. That's where his choker image stems from. He simply cannot do that.

Didn't even see any drives in the first half

Yeah, he just goes into a shell when the opposition goes zone, but he did drive quite a few times in the 2nd half and came up empty every time.

He had 9 in the fourth from what I can tell, but what happened down the stretch? Missed shots?

Missed 2 shots and 2 free throws in the final minute. He was having a fine 4th qtr otherwise, but for whatever reason, he pump-faked on his jumper with about a minute left, the defender didn't go for it, and he shot an ugly air ball. Why the **** did he pump fake when his jumper was so money all game? The next possession, he drove the ball in the half-court. Threw up an ugly shot as always. I lost it there. LeBron should NEVER, EVER drive at the end of games. Finally, he was fouled with Chicago in must-foul territory, and LeBron missed both. Inexcusable. The final minute is all people will remember about LeBron in this game. And who can blame them?

SideshowBob · Post #118 » by **SideshowBob** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:17 am

Just caught the 3rd. 3 straight drives, got fouled on one of them and couldn't convert on the other two. Embarassing. He had two earlier where he just lost the handle on the drive and didn't even get off shot attempts.

Rebuilding Year · Post #119 » by **Rebuilding Year** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:56 am

You are obsessed.

He has been throwing down oops from the top of the square since Wade returned. Multiple videos have been posted this season where he blows directly by his man for the bucket off the dribble. He was 12-23 on the game against the league's "best defense".

The only thing that's embarrassing is how you continue to prattle on despite the overwhelming evidence that he is not only as good, but better.

toodles23 · Post #120 » by **toodles23** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:58 am

IG2 wrote:The Reinforcement Game?

Everything that happened in today's playoff-like Bulls-Heat game was LeBron basically confirming everything we have been saying about him in this thread.

Picks up a lot of easy buckets in transition to maintain high FG%? Check.
Looks terrific when shooting jumpers? Check.
Hopeless while driving in the half-court? Double check.
Gagging late? Check!

If LeBron didn't mess up up so badly in the last minute, this would have been his best game of the season IMO. He was really carrying the team in the 2nd half, made a lot of momentum changing/halting jumpers, then blew it in the final minute with the world watching. Lucky for him, Rose was having an uncharacteristically gag-filled night himself.

Pretty much. Also, his turnovers continue to come at an alarming rate, 6 more tonight. He's getting stripped all the time and is losing his dribble constantly, I've never seen him struggle to handle the ball like this before.