Nick Young traded to Clippers/McGee to Denver/Nene to DC

[Dat2U]

Im very curious and intrigued to see how Wall and Nene play the PnR.. both defensively and offensively.

mySynergySports‏
JaVale McGee is 6th in the NBA in pick and roll efficiency, scoring 1.28 PPP as the roll man. Edges Nene in post 0.71 to 0.67

[DaRealHibachi]

People need to get over McGee; this might not have been the best trade ever, but acting like McGee is some kind of big-time, sure-fire all-star C...???

This kid has been in the league for 4 years and still hasn't improved in "the little things"; which also reminds me of that discussion that was going on a few days ago: Would teams like the Spurs, Celtics or Dallas trade for/draft a player like McGee...??? And what makes people think that he will suddenly improve what he hasn't improved in 4 years...

I know all of them would love to have a dude like Nene though... He's a very good player, only (below) average at rebounding; draft a lotto-big and that's no longer an issue...

[Knighthonor]

Im very curious and intrigued to see how Wall and Nene play the PnR.. both defensively and offensively.

mySynergySports‏
JaVale McGee is 6th in the NBA in pick and roll efficiency, scoring 1.28 PPP as the roll man. Edges Nene in post 0.71 to 0.67

So this was a lost?

Why wasn't Vesley traded?

[hands11]

I like Nene as a player.

But I'm not sure I like this deal. We will see. They just got less dumb that is for sure.

Hate to see Ronny go before he even really got to play here. wow.

I'm happy Nick is gone. That I know.
Not really happy to see McGee go just yet.

[DaRealHibachi]

You can user PER all you want but has anyone thought that maybe Mcgee just is what he is? And once his athleticism goes or he gets injured, what type of player will he be? A terrible one because he doesn't have the basic smarts or instincts (basketball wise, no clue about his overall intelligence) to change his game.

Very good point...

[MF23]

The problem isn't just he's overpaid. He's also about to turn 30, the deal ends when he's 34! He's injury prone, and he appears to be in decline.

There's a reason why Denver so quick to get out of a FA deal months after agreeing to it.

That's it, it's the deal and age that accelerates what the hell the owner's been talking about. This deal sends the Wizards towards mediorcrety but it doesn't build the young core that's going to grow together. Maybe in 2 years this is an ideal trade like Okc picking up Perkins but right now it has little positive effect on building a contender. I think we can both agree this has a potential negative effect to that end.

[TGW]

I would have liked to see a first round pick come our way, but overall, I'm not angry at this. Amnesty Blatche, and you have a team with toughness, heart, and smarts.

I couldn't take the stupid plays anymore. I'm sure the 14 mil/year demands from his agents didn't help at all.

[TGW]

Hmm - definitely torn on this one, leaning slightly on the side of the fence toward "Approve".

The way I see it, none of McGee, Young, or Turiaf were going to be here next year, so in terms of assets going out, they gave up basically nothing. The 2nd rounder coming in is nice - we now have three 2nd rounders, two of which should be 31-133, is that right? Might make it easier to move up into mid/late 1st round to get a better draft slot.

So the only real question is whether the cash outlay for Nene is worth it. I think, in the short term, that it definitely is. As has been stated before, no one is coming to the Wiz unless they pay a premium over what he could get on a contender. Plus, almost all of the good FAs are Restricted, so that's yet another premium the Wiz would have to pay, to scare their current team away from matching. And yes, I'd definitely prefer Nene at $13M to McGee on a relatively similar contract, although neither + cap space might still be preferable.

But really, I'm withholding judgement until I see what else the Wiz do this summer. My preference would be to amnesty Blatche, hopefully bu out Lewis (maybe save a million or two in the process?) and roll with the $12M cap space (per nate?) for this summer, and Blatche off the books for the next two offseasons as well.

I've been on an Ilyasova kick lately - having him, Nene, and Booker as the primary Bigs? Yeah, that would work for me. Draft MKG in the Lottery, and plug in a stopgap SG? Or even better, find a way to move up into late lottery for Beal/Lamb (future 1st, Vesely, absorb a middlin' contract)? Uh, yeah that'd work for me:

Wall/Mack/Vet
Stopgap Vet/Beal/Crawford
MKG/Singleton
Ilyasova/Booker/Vesely
Nene/Seraphin

We're suddenly a WHOLE lot better, and if MKG becomes a true star, we could be edging toward beginning to think about maybe competing for a top-5 finish in the East. Only downside: they probably hire Calipari to coach the squad...

I'm 100% down with this scenario, other than the Calipari part.

We should hire Nate McMillian immediately, and have him start working with the team now.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Watch Mcgee blow up now. Like all wizard big men traded away young.

I'll be rocking this quote as a signature for a while, if you don't object, JWiz.

[Jay81]

I blame Ted...if he would of fired Ernie months ago..and hired a competent GM...this "usual" bullets trade would no of happened.

Why Ted keeps letting Ernie destroy this franchise is amazing

[The Consiglieri]

The only thing I don't like is the length of Nene's deal. I think that if he stays in shape, his game won't go down hill too far... I do worry about him missing big chunks of time to injuries here and there though.

We definitely need him to sit out for a month or so now, though. Can't screw up the tank; we need a high pick and to go hard after a free agent now. We can't tank again next season with a competent 2-way center on the roster.

I actually distinctly remembered Simmons write up on nene back in December and being glad we didn't try and get him. I don't really understand why we got him now other than that the franchise planned on not resigning him or Nick, and so Nene and a 2nd rounder was preferrable to cap space. Not sure I agree with that but it isn't interesting to read Simmons article and see that his projected salary was actually higher, much higher on the free market scenario, than what Nene actually got. Here's the meat and the link:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/731 ... -christmas


"..1c. Nene
This one scares the hell out of me. What am I getting, exactly? He's 29 years old and has a surgically repaired knee. He played nearly as many games the past three years (260, including playoffs) as he did for his first six seasons (315, including playoffs). He's not exactly an emotional leader — those Nuggets teams melted down as much as anyone, and you'd have to consider it at least somewhat telling that Carmelo Anthony pushed his way off a team that had a top-five center on it. The biggest thing for me: If he's a top-five center, then why is Nene such a lousy rebounder? These past three seasons, he averaged 32.6, 33.6 and 30.5 minutes per game … and 7.8, 7.6 and 7.6 rebounds. He wasn't even a top-25 rebounder last year. (FYI: LeBron nearly outrebounded him!) He also doesn't protect the rim that well; for instance, Dwyane Wade (1.14) Channing Frye (1.01), Shane Battier (0.99) averaged more blocks than Nene (0.97) last season.

With Nene, you're getting an athletic big man who makes 60 percent of his shots, as well as someone who makes opposing teams say, "They have a center" … and that's about it. At 29, you are who you are. He can't quite take over games; he's never going to do what Chandler did in last year's playoffs from a protecting-the-rim standpoint; he needs extra rebounding help or you're getting killed on the boards; he's never won anything; and oh, you better hope his knees hold up. For me, it's no contest — not only would I rather have Gasol or Chandler, I'd rather overpay Jordan (at least he's an up-and-comer) for 50 to 60 percent of what Nene will probably cost (four years, $74.3 million without a sign-and-trade).

So who's willing to splurge on Nene? Not to go all Hubie Brown on you, but we know the Nets will pay whatever it takes for a center and they're already "all in" after the Deron Williams trade. We know Houston is getting an above-average center come hell or high water. We know Indiana, Denver and Sacramento have a crapload of cap space, and we know Toronto and Washington are an executed amnesty clause away from getting there. We also know that Memphis is vowing to match any restricted offer to Gasol.

That means seven teams might be bidding for Chandler and Nene … and two (New Jersey and Houston) are desperate. Even if they're worth $55 million apiece for four years, they'll end up getting $20 million more; I wouldn't be shocked if the Nets pulled off a sign-and-trade with Denver to give Nene $100 million for five. You think Mikhail Prokhorov cares about overpaying the fifth-best center in basketball? You think he cares about dropping an extra $50 million per year with the tougher luxury tax? I don't think Nene's next contract will be remembered on the Rashard Lewis/Gilbert Arenas level as a historical abomination, but at the very least, it will join Joe Johnson's extension as this decade's defining example of a team overpaying a good player who isn't great (or even close to great)....Let's make some predictions for those 12 centers. Important note to Kendrick Perkins: Stop reading right now. Just trust me.

1. Nene
Prediction: Signs with New Jersey (five years, $100 million, thanks to a sign-and-trade with Denver3)
Verdict: COMICALLY OVERPAID.................."

I dont like the deal because a 30 year old center doesnt make sense to me at all, especially an injury prone one that doesnt hit the boards, period. All I can see in it is a clear move to add BBIQ, subtract 1 ball stopper and two idiots, and make a team that actually knows how to play with Wall intelligently so he stays past his rookie deal as we add pieces the next two offseasons.

I just worry that his 4 year 54 mill deal in '12-'13 and 3 year 41 mill deal as of '13-'14 or thereabouts based on averages could end up being yet another anchor contract when we've spent the past five years shedding a never ending series of them (Etan then DBrick then Gilbert then Antawn then Baltche then Lewis and possibly Nene now, when do these horrible deals end? We'll see soon if we just added another to the train. At least we can take one off the books this summer).

[The Consiglieri]

It was a good trade. It was time to break up the Blatche, Young, McGee knuckle head gang. Just wish we could get rid of Blatche. Nene has a high IQ and plays the game the right way. He can be an all-star for us next year.

This is one of only two reasons I like it.

#1: The idiots are gone (no way is Baltche back next year).

#2: Considering what Simmons wrote and what tends to happen, Nene's contract could have been a whole whole whole lot worse, or a little worse, that were basically getting 4 years at 54 mill next year isn't all that bad. Especially if he can stay healthy.

and a bonus factor

Maybe wall is a little less exasperated with 2/3's of the veteran stupidity out the door, along with the negative attitudes the guys brought. If nothing else, this trade helped the room and the IQ quite a bit.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Forget the minimal PER production on this roster coming from the SF and PF positions. The biggest problem was the guy who had the highest PER on the team.

Make a few boneheaded plays because you are raw and young -- and that is what should be highlighted. Ad nauseum. Forget that we drafted our franchise piece in Wall a year ago. Does anyone know what Durant's record was his first 2 years in the NBA? We must act desperate immediately because we are losing.

Young is an unrestricted free agent and McGee is a restricted free agent who if we simply wanted jettisoned could have let another team overpay for his services.

Point being: If the main goal was for them to simply "be gone" ... it would have happened in a few months without incurring a bloated contract.

The desperate "addition by subtraction" mentality being pervasive throughout the Wizards organization is what allowed us to be taken advantage of. And if you are wondering, this is how professionals in the highest level of sports can be manipulated into making poor decisions.

Not only that, through 41 games, McGee produced more points over par than John Wall. He graded out higher than Wall on a metric that is far more accurate than PER or plus minus.

http://www.nerdnumbers.com/splits?team= ... F14%2F2012

Aside from minimal production at SF and PF, the Wizards suffer from woeful shot selection at SG and poor coaching. The single biggest problem is they have a complete incompetent at GM.

I will always remember McGee's game with San Antonio. He had 21 points and 15 rebounds and put on an overwhelmingly good performance. He let Duncan have a dunk and that one play drew ire in the game thread. If you look at his game objectively, it was one of the best of his career. In fact, if you look at McGee's numbers against the Lakers, Blazers, and Spurs, the biggest question should have been why did Jordan Crawford play more minutes than Javale?

Instead of seeing improvements in Singleton, Seraphin, and Wall, and thinking a new coach will be able to implement them and McGee; the Wizards said there's no way they can give that guy a deal.

Ernie Grunfeld is the worst at what he does. Ted Leonsis, I don't care what you do now. You may as well give Ernie his contract and name Wittman head coach next season. That's your plan, I bet.

[spaceman_E]

Ernie has to go. Nene is old, injury prone, and overpaid. It could have been acceptable if we acquired a 1st rounder or rid ourselves of Lewis and/or Blatche.

Knowing this trade was a possibility, Ernie should have dealt Mcgee/Young in the offseason for a future 1st or two.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

I would have liked to see a first round pick come our way, but overall, I'm not angry at this. Amnesty Blatche, and you have a team with toughness, heart, and smarts.

I couldn't take the stupid plays anymore. I'm sure the 14 mil/year demands from his agents didn't help at all.

I'm still digesting this... but I think I like it. I mean, yes Nene has a questionable contract, but the Wizards would of had to sign McGee to a similar deal most likely, and Nene is unquestionably a better player. And yes he's 29, but I believe his contract runs until he's 33 or 34 which should be a productive period of years.

But Nene is a legit starting center, and a perfect guy for Seraphin to apprentice under btw. I mean out of players I was looking at like Okafor and Bogut, I'd put Nene in the same catagory, and he may be better than either of them.

I would of liked to of gotten a late 1st in the deal, or at least a high 2nd this year. But I do think I like the deal. We needed some vets and some guys who just know how to play. Amnesty Blatche and buy out Lewis. Bring in a good coach. Add a good player in the draft.

Wall, Nene, our pick, is the legit 3 to build around. Booker, Singleton, Vesely, Crawford, Seraphin, Mack as supporting players.

The top questions now are who is the new coach, and who do we get in the draft.

[Dat2U]

You can user PER all you want but has anyone thought that maybe Mcgee just is what he is? And once his athleticism goes or he gets injured, what type of player will he be? A terrible one because he doesn't have the basic smarts or instincts (basketball wise, no clue about his overall intelligence) to change his game.

Very good point...

Seems like a weak argument to me. You could make the case that any player could be negatively affected by injuries and I'm not sure how you can take into account injuries that not have happened. It's Nene that's got the bad knees. Not McGee. It's Nene that has been injury prone. McGee has been healthy for the most part.

[Mmat11]

People should stop going on about Nene's bad contract. Of course he has a bad contract - If he didn't then Denver wouldn't have traded him. The Wiz aren't going to get any quality player in a trade or as a free agent on a great team friendly contract. You want Batum or Ryan Anderson? You're going to have to overpay like crazy or their teams will simply match. Maybe they would match even if we made a crazy offer. So we have to overpay any way you look at it.

There is a big difference between choosing to overpay Batum (23 years old, 17.91 PER) or Anderson (23 years old, 22.42 PER) to overpaying Nene (29 years old, 16.85 PER).

To put salt on the wound, neither Batum nor Anderson will get as much as $13 million a season.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Because Javale McGee and Chris Webber are both hominids? About the only similarity I can see.
Hominids? No religious talk in this forum please.

And I can't believe they let just anyone post here. Security! Otis Thorpe? Anyone? Muggsy?

Anyway, it's nice to see an old-time poster back here in these troubled times.

... like sashae.

Oh, and Spence, too, I guess.

...aww, thanks Ruz. Always good to hear from you, too.

Honestly, I have mixed emotions about this trade. I am ecstatic that Nick is gone -- so no mixed feelings there. I'm happy/unhappy that JaVale is gone, but my main beef is the money that Nene makes. His game is fine, but man... he's a pricey dude. So be it. We weren't going to win with either of the guys traded, may as well not win with someone else. At least he's a professional, and a smart guy. That can't help but rub off on Book and Ves, right?

...and I have to say, as well. CCJ, you're a bright guy, and I respect how you stick to your guns so much, and have always enjoyed reading your analysis -- even when I don't agree. I don't, however, understand why you've got such a chip on your shoulder about things that you feel you need to pound into the floor how right you are and how right you've been for so long versus everyone else. Let you be you, there's no need to wave a flag.

I think we all feel frustration with this team and the hard times we've had to go through watching them -- understandably! -- but I'd like to think we're not going to eat each other like the Donner Party though.

sashae, when Rip was traded I felt bad. When Gil was resigned, I said he knows his body is breaking down. I said don't draft Pecherov, draft Millsap. I talked about Millsap from November/December and was laughed at in this forum. I argued over how good Cousins would be and said I would prefer Cousins and a lottery pick over Wall. If you gave me Cousins and Evan Turner I'd say bye to Wall right now. I'd draft Damian Lillard and watch him drop 30 on Wall. Wall is not a high IQ player. I said what about Wall for Irving's rights and a pick.

Now, with Wall looking like a superstar, I'm happy for him but I still feel the same way as ever.

This deal is beyond bad, sashae. I'm mad because I think the average fan is the reason why deals like this get made. Laughing at McGee but ignoring the double doubles in 22 minutes is okay. The real problem is the walrus who Ernie Grunfeld has on the bench making the money they should be GLAD to give to McGee. The real problem is Randy Wittman doesn't recognize how much worse Jordan Crawford is for Wall than McGee.

sashae, I'm old and have a lot of bad going on in my life. I have a lot of issues. I vent here. I am sorry if I bring people down, but this team reminds me of the comic strip Peanuts. Rooting for the Wizards is like being Charlie Brown running to kick the football. Hopes will be deferred as you fall on your butt and feel foolish.

It is beyond bad what decisions Ernie Grunfeld has made. I am really down about this, but trying to laugh it off.

[hands11]

Missed games by Nene, per year:

2
5
27
81
18
66
5
0
7
15
===============
TOTAL: 216 career missed games due to injury

I wonder how motivated he will be to dress every night coming to the Wizards?

Money left on his contract: (counting this season) $65M at $13M per season

Age Nene will be in the fall: 30 years old

What the Wizards have done: They got him when his PER is 16.8 and they ignored that Javale's PER is 19.8. They ignored that Jordan f'n Crawford and a LOSER HEAD COACH are allowed to look off for shots and berate McGee while no defense is played by anyone. They ignore that John Wall doesn't find McGee nearly enough in transition or in half court. They sold low on McGee.

I truly believe Javale McGee is smarter than Ernie Grunfeld.

I truly have lost all respect for the man who kept the man who snitched on Gilbert Arenas.

This team sucks. I HATE this.

This is about the stupidest move done out of desperation at the deadline.

ONE LAST THOUGHT: In my opinion, Seraphin might be better than Nene. How are you going to get an older player, move him from PF to C, and keep a young player on the bench? Either Seraphin or Booker must sit now for a guy who will make 13M a year.

I said the best move was no move. They would have been gone anyway. Unless Nene was the player they really wanted, why do this ?

I guess the plan from here would be to start Nene and Booker together. Looks like the draft would be a guard or small forward.

[Severn Hoos]

Door #1: Wizards trade Young & McGee for Nene. (plus other minor parts)

Door #2: Wizards retain Young & McGee to long-term deals in Summer 2012.

Door #3: Wizards let Young & McGee walk in Summer 2012.


Of the three options, Door #2 is definitely the worst, IMO. Young & McGee are not winning players, IMO - and I would put the chances of McGee "getting it" and becoming a solid player, defensive anchor, etc. at around 25%. And that's with an ideal scenario of a new coach and strong vets to keep him in line. Basically, not happening as far as I can tell.

Door #3 could be the best option - depending on what the Wiz do with the cap space. Maybe they sign a RFA or two, but their teams match. With loads of cap space and no one to spend it on, maybe they get desperate and sign someone to a deal even worse than Nene's. Or - horrors! - they realize that the cap space does them no good, so they don't amnesty Baltche. That could be the worst case scenario.

If they were smart in the above scenario, they might sign some high-dollar 1- or 2-year deals (to get to the minimum?), do a BOYD trade or two, nibble around the edges. But really, I don't see that cap space helping them any more than Nene over the next 2 years, and I don't think it's particularly close.

Of course, the contract could very well become an albatross in the last year or two, but even the final year is mitigated a bit by being an expiring.

So - to sum up - the only way cap space helps is in the next two summers, so the only way this deal hurts is if it prevents the Wiz from signing a FA or otherwise making a deal that they would have done if not for Nene's deal. They should have enough space this summer to sign a mid-high (but not Max) FA. and then still have some flexibility in 2013 when the rest of Lewis' contract comes off the books (assuming they amnesty Baltche).

In economic terms, the opportunity cost was relatively low, so on value, I'm OK with it - but definitely nervous about the longterm implications.