Leafs Offseason Discussion

Deron05 · Post #1 » by **Deron05** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:51 pm

Im making this right now because the Leafs season is practically over. The leafs need a makeover. Hopefully a top 3 pick and we can get Grigerenko, but with the lottery, who knows. I say top 3 things on BB's list are:
1. Top six forwards with size
2. Goaltending
3. Get some grit for the bottom 6

Deron2 · Post #2 » by **Deron2** » Sat Apr 7, 2012 9:43 pm

who do you think the leafs will draft, assuming they get the 5th overall pick.

Relentless88 · Post #3 » by **Relentless88** » Sun Apr 8, 2012 12:46 am

If you're going to come back, why not choose a different name? :lol:

Anyways, this isn't really relevant to this thread but I'll post here anyway. I'll admit I'm a casual hockey/Leafs fan (Raptors/Jays fan first). In the NBA there are lots of advanced stats that are useful to look at as we all know. The MLB takes advanced stats to a whole other level with FIP/WAR/etc.

So are there any useful advanced stats to look at in hockey? Hopefully some of the hockey experts here can answer.

whysoserious · Post #4 » by **whysoserious** » Sun Apr 8, 2012 6:40 pm

I'm still wondering why he got banned unless he's someone I don't remember. But it is hilarious to use the same name. lol

It's gonna be a tough off-season for the Leafs. They are pretty much capped out heading towards next season and need help at C and Goaltending. With the failure of this season, there's a lot of pressure to do something but this may almost be the year to do nothing if your Burke.

I'd explore moving some of those contracts out, if not, there's a lot coming off the books next summer.

There's some solid youth coming up, let some of them come to the Leafs and just play. Let some of your restricted players go. Like Kulemin, I like him but maybe you try to work out a pick in return for him unless you can sign him cheap. Get a backup vet goaltender to work with Reimer for another season or Scrivens may just be the guy.

I was on side with moving the pick if it's not a top pick for Schneider and it wouldn't be the worse thing, but the Leafs may be better off making the pick and letting Scrivens play the season here.

Also, guys like Franson can be moved for some additional picks in this or next year's draft. Burke's gonna have to get creative, there's a lot of pressure to hit the home run but it may be time to draw a walk and keep the system moving.

sanity · Post #5 » by **sanity** » Sun Apr 8, 2012 8:50 pm

They need to dump Komisarek even if it means shipping a younger asset along with him like Kulemin or one of the young defensemen/goalies---he's an occupied roster spot (healthy scratch) who has a no movement clause. I think they could get a team like Philly to bite in the offseason. They have a fetish for big, mobile D and are in need of a backup. We should've kept JSG for another season or 2. The Reimer/Gustavsson experiment was a disaster

I think Burke will try and swing for the fences for someone like Nash and get a goaltender. I hope he's open to trading Phaneuf if a team so much as offers something for him

fredericklove · Post #6 » by **fredericklove** » Sun Apr 8, 2012 11:03 pm

Leafs are on their way to get Grigerenko or Gally and no one on this board seems to care much about it lol!

whysoserious · Post #7 » by **whysoserious** » Mon Apr 9, 2012 12:30 am

I don't think he'll move Phaneuf sanity. He should at least listen, but he's staked a lot on acquiring him. The problem is, just like acquiring Kessel he hasn't made the right moves to support either guy.

As for Komi getting moved, we all want him gone but that no movement clause is the killer. And I don't understand why Burke continues to hand them out. As much as I even like Grabo, I'd float his name at the draft before his new deal kicks in, maybe you can get someone to bite where you can pick up another bigger centre down the middle. In saying that, I'm not in a rush to move him either, they guy plays fearless, takes some big hits and keeps on going. I'd just listen to what options are out there.

Does Burke even have the balls to take a run at Price? Probably not, he lamented teams going after other teams RFA's but that's the system and no UFA's of significance are hitting the open market. The thought was with the new CBA guys would hit the market at an earlier age in their prime, instead teams just lock em up. We keep looking to the next season and next of who's coming and all that happens is that guy re-signs before hitting the market. Go after some of these RFA's.

sanity · Post #8 » by **sanity** » Mon Apr 9, 2012 3:45 pm

Yeah, Burke's loyalities and massive contracts really hampers him from doing a lot without having to really fleece himself dumping some bad contracts. I think Schneider is viable, but who knows. As much as I also like Grabovski I think he should entertain offers as well if they come---problem is, he's our only C who is legit enough to be a 2nd line C lol

Don't know much about Gally but I do know Grigerenko is another wing. If we get him and he's legit we could afford to deal one of Kessel or Lupol for (hopefully) a C

_venom_ · Post #9 » by **_venom_** » Mon Apr 9, 2012 5:19 pm

Ideally I'd move our pick (unless it's #1) for Schneider. If that's not possible then my draft board would be:

1) Yakupov
2) Grigorenko
3) Forsberg
4) Galchenyuk
5) Murray
6) Trouba

If the draft order stays the same I see it going:

1) Columbus- Yakupov
2) Edmonton- Murray
3) Montreal- Grigorenko
4) NY Islanders- Dman (Reilly, Dumba, Trouba, Reinhart)
5) Toronto- Either Forsberg or Galchenyuk

whysoserious · Post #10 » by **whysoserious** » Mon Apr 9, 2012 5:30 pm

So outside the number 1 pick, you trade it for Schneider, which I'm not opposed to, what are the next pieces to fall?

You still don't have a number 1 center, you have players who are identical on the blue line making quite a big of money that you aren't able to move. You're pretty much capped out for next season with a bunch of RFA's.

I'd say if you make the move on Schneider, you basically go in to a mode where you try and move a couple of RFA's to other teams at the draft for a pick. You look at unloading some contracts and try and buy yourself one year with a top flight goalie. You could probably sell the city on having a number one. Don't compound it by signing bit parts to long-term deals as we've done with Komisarek, Armstrong, Lombardi (through trade) and what not. You should be able to fill out your third and fourth lines fairly easily on cheap deals, whereas Burke has handed out deals that aren't cap friendly and have hamstrung him the last few years.

_venom_ · Post #11 » by **_venom_** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:04 am

I'd try to dump Armstrong for a late pick if possible. If not, I'd bury both he and Lombardi in the AHL next year. Neither were deserving of being full time NHLers this past season. Komisarek you're basically stuck with until his contract is over. Connolly is overpriced but has some use on the 3rd line and he only has 1 year left. The Leafs also need to move one of Schenn or Franson in the offseason. If you can clear enough cap space to make a run at Parise you go for it even if Parise isn't a positional fit. He's a top notch player and we need more top notch talent.

hsb · Post #12 » by **hsb** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:59 am

NHL Draft Lottery tomorrow night at 8:00 PM.

Leafs have an 8.1% chance at first, 74.7% at fifth and 17.2% at sixth. Teams can only move up four spots or down one.

whysoserious · Post #13 » by **whysoserious** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:41 pm

_venom_ wrote:I'd try to dump Armstrong for a late pick if possible. If not, I'd bury both he and Lombardi in the AHL next year. Neither were deserving of being full time NHLers this past season. Komisarek you're basically stuck with until his contract is over. Connolly is overpriced but has some use on the 3rd line and he only has 1 year left. The Leafs also need to move one of Schenn or Franson in the offseason. If you can clear enough cap space to make a run at Parise you go for it even if Parise isn't a positional fit. He's a top notch player and we need more top notch talent.

Good point about Lombardi/Armstrong in the minors. Give your young guys a chance with the big club, heck you can always bring them back up, and if they have to clear re-entry waivers, someone else can pick em up for a reduced cost and it still saves us some money.

The good thing about the Connoly signing is it was only two years. You may be able to find a bottom feeder team that needs to get to the cap floor. But even still, it's only one more year. The problem with it is, and Burke didn't see this and none of us did up until February, is the team collapsed and needs to make changes this summer and is a bit stuck.

Schenn for Van Riemsdyk seems very possible at the draft. I wonder if he can sell them on Franson for Van Riemsdyk instead, he's got a better shot, he's an RFA. Maybe if you sweeten it a bit. I'd like to see Schenn with a full year under Carlyle.

Parise is nice, but that basically reminds me of Montreal and their small forward group the last few seasons. With Grabo and Parise, and Kessel, we are very small.

I think SJ may be looking at some changes and maybe you call on Thornton to see what it would take.

ATLTimekeeper · Post #14 » by **ATLTimekeeper** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:52 pm

Moving the pick for Schneider would be yet another idiotic move which has become a staple of the Leafs franchise. Keep it. If they want to throw money at Schneider they'd have the potential to pay less in future picks. At most we're talking about this range for compensation:

$3,134,088 — $4,701,131: First and third-round pick
$4,701,131 — $6,268,175: First, second and third-round pick

It's unlikely Vancouver touches anything close to $3 million for their back-up, given their cap situation. Still pricey for a guy who hasn't played 80 games in the NHL, but at least we're not giving up a known high pick. The ship has a lot of leaks, the top 10 is C and D heavy.

ATLTimekeeper · Post #15 » by **ATLTimekeeper** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:05 pm

I don't know how Burke can remain so defiant after having his nose rubbed in it so many years in a row. I've suggested it before, but I think Kessel should go. The signs are there: the Boston games, Carlyle's style, the need to get bigger, coming off a career year where he wasn't held accountable in his own end... it would be a great time to flip him.

whysoserious · Post #16 » by **whysoserious** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:06 pm

Great point ATL,

I've always felt that in this situation, Burke should make a run at a restricted free agent. The problem is he came out so hard against Lowe for it that I he looks like a hypocrite doing it himself. At the end of the day, those are the rules so I'd love to just go sign him to a contract too and give up the future picks.

Post #17 » by **Crowned** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:19 pm

Trading Kessel would make no sense, and is completely pointless. His name gets thrown around because one of the only players with value on the current roster. We're trading a top 5 scorer (who has nobody to play with; and Lupul doesn't count, Kessel was a major factor in his turnaround) that will be turning 25 when the next season begins. Notice a trend amongst the leagues top scorers? They have complimentary players around them, Kessel doesn't. He's far from the worries on this roster.

ATLTimekeeper · Post #18 » by **ATLTimekeeper** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:04 pm

Crowned wrote:Trading Kessel would make no sense, and is completely pointless. His name gets thrown around because one of the only players with value on the current roster. We're trading a top 5 scorer (who has nobody to play with; and Lupul doesn't count, Kessel was a major factor in his turnaround) that will be turning 25 when the next season begins. Notice a trend amongst the leagues top scorers? They have complimentary players around them, Kessel doesn't. He's far from the worries on this roster.

What? Lupul doesn't count? How about they helped each other. It's not like Phil was near the leaderboard prior to Lupul. He should go because he can fetch a lot, and they need a lot and he doesn't fit the style of the new coach. How does that not make sense? We're not talking about Sidney Crosby here. He's got flaws.

Post #19 » by **Crowned** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:57 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:
Crowned wrote:Trading Kessel would make no sense, and is completely pointless. His name gets thrown around because one of the only players with value on the current roster. We're trading a top 5 scorer (who has nobody to play with; and Lupul doesn't count, Kessel was a major factor in his turnaround) that will be turning 25 when the next season begins. Notice a trend amongst the leagues top scorers? They have complimentary players around them, Kessel doesn't. He's far from the worries on this roster.

What? Lupul doesn't count? How about they helped each other. It's not like Phil was near the leaderboard prior to Lupul. He should go because he can fetch a lot, and they need a lot and he doesn't fit the style of the new coach. How does that not make sense? We're not talking about Sidney Crosby here. He's got flaws.

Prior to Lupul, Kessel was playing with Bozak and Crabb, both 4th line players. Lupul absolutely benefited from Kessel, and his stats proved it. Do you think he would've put up the same production playing next to Kulemin or MacArthur?

The trait of a good coach is to alter their style around a good offensive player. We shouldn't be trading Kessel because Carlysle likes to play a certain way, Carlysle should be figuring out how to maximize Kessel's talents.

The 'he should go because he's valuable' argument is flawed. Should we trade Gardiner because he could fetch a lot? My point is, you don't trade a 25 year old player coming off a season where he was top 5 in scoring, all while playing with Tyler Bozak and Joffrey Lupul. How many 25 year old players that scored 37 goals and 80 points are available? If he had a legitimate center next to him, he would've put up 90 points.

whysoserious · Post #20 » by **whysoserious** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:57 pm

I think the problem with Kessel that lots of fans have, is he's not a leader or pure lead player. He's a damn good player though and he's young. The problem with this team is that they've pretty much spent money poorly in other areas. And that has limited us from getting that lead centre that can play with Kessel.

If Burke can get that guy, then you keep Kessel for sure cause he's young and a sniper. But you can't build a team around Kessel being one of the leaders and now Phaneuf's leadership is in question too, although i'm inclined to see what a coach like Carlyle can do for him. Carlyle was a former defensemen.

Burke has spent too much money on the defensive unit with the wrong pieces.

Gardiner, Schenn, Phaneuf, Lyles, Gunnarson, Komisarek, and Franson.

If you could remove Lyles and Komisarek then you've got money in other areas. We just re-upped Lyles and although he was solid, he got hurt. This is where Burke's supposed 'loyalty' gets the best of him. You've got Holzer almost ready and a few others. You could have found a solid puck mover to be the second puck moving defensemen after assessing Gardiner through half a season.