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Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Harrison Barnes

Moderators: Morris_Shatford, 7 Footer, DG88, niQ, Duffman100, tsherkin, Reeko, lebron stopper, HiJiNX

If still on the Board by our pick what are the chanches we draft him?

100%
52
57%
90%
16
18%
80%
6
7%
70%
1
1%
60%
2
2%
50%
1
1%
40%
2
2%
30%
0
No votes
20%
3
3%
10%
8
9%
 
Total votes: 91

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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Harrison Barnes 

Post#141 » by basketball royalty » Sat May 5, 2012 2:43 am

TheToothFairy wrote:
Leolovinliberal wrote:
TheToothFairy wrote:This guy screams Glen Rice to me


WHAT!?!?!??! You have obviously never seen Glen Rice play. I'm 39 and watched his entire career. Rice was a dead eye 3 point shooter, out to 25 feet, and several post up moves, could create his own shot and took it to the rim for monster jams on several occasions. He was a several time All Star. HB doesn't do one thing outstanding. He's a mediocre jump shooter that can literally do nothing else. HB couldn't carry Glen Rice's jock strap.



Who references a player who hasn't played in almost 10 years Einstein? I have seen Rice since his days with Rumeal Robinson thank you. I am also older than you.

Rice was. #4 pick 6'8 SF Known for being a good shooter and not much else. You are overstating his shot creation and dunking prowess severly.

Barnes and Rice averaged about the same ppg as a sophomore . A Barnes Rice comparison is no stretch whether you agree or not



So in other words, Barnes would be a great pick if he is like Glenn RIce.

Disclaimer: I am also 'old'.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Harrison Barnes 

Post#142 » by TheToothFairy » Sat May 5, 2012 11:20 am

Too me Rice is Barnes Upside as a player, if you think he reaches his potential than yes
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Harrison Barnes 

Post#143 » by FluLikeSymptoms » Sat May 5, 2012 12:09 pm

Chuck Person, absolute tops. Not Rice. Not an all-NBA any teamer or multiple all-star.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Harrison Barnes 

Post#144 » by Young_Buc » Sat May 5, 2012 12:35 pm

Only remember Glen Rice on the heat via NBA Jam so I can't be trusted on to make an accurate comparison. But this video pretty much looks Harrison Barnsey.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlPsneqFyH8
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Harrison Barnes 

Post#145 » by Ell Curry » Sat May 5, 2012 2:09 pm

Glen Rice shot over 55% all 4 seasons at Michigan. Barnes shot 42% as a frosh and 44% as a sophomore.

When I watched Barnes, I saw the size, co-ordination and athleticism to be a good scorer at the 3 in the NBA, but a non-factor in terms of rebounds, steals, blocks and man on man D. So, you're hoping for a Caron Butler or Glen Rice type lesser all star career. However, the guy would have to score much more efficiently in the pros than he did in college to be worth the 8th pick. He put up True Shooting marks of .52 and .528. That's ugly for a wing scoring prospect. Going by actual production, I'd say Barnes had the 2nd worst year of any lottery pick, goign by DraftExpress' mock. I was tempted to have him last, but Drummond, hit 29% of his FT's and barely touched the ball on offense and didn't rebound defensively very well, though preferring a 7 foot shot blocker who offensive rebounds well over an inefficient volume scorer is reasonable. Also, Barnes played big minutes on a good defensive team, which counts for something even when you're not the main reason why. Looking at the 1st round, I'd say, statistically, Barnes' year was probably like 23-24th best, with only Drummond, Austin Rivers, Marquis Teague, Royce White, Quincy Miller and Tony Wroten having less impressive seasons and Fournier not playing in the NCAA.

As a freshman, I get that a guy might take too many long 2's or struggle in the P+R or whatever. It happens to lots of guys, but it's hard to find a really successful NBA 3 who struggled as a sophomore like Barnes. Rudy Gay had similar scoring numbers, but higher rebound, steal and block rates. He also hit 50 percent of his shots inside the arc (Barnes was at 47) but struggled from 3 point land. Basically, he had a cold year from outside but was otherwise better, though not dramatically so (apart from blocks) across the board.

3 pt shooting doesn't always translate (these are 18-21 year old kids without finished jumpers in many cases and the line is different). But scoring inside the arc should. If you draft Barnes, you're hoping he makes the changes Josh Smith finally did the last couple years, realizing what's a good shot and what isn't. And Barnes might be taking the best shots he can get, rather than settling. I didn't watch enough UNC to speak on that. I could deal with him as the 8th pick, because he would have gone 2 or 3 after Wall and fighting with Evan Turner had he been able to enter the 2010 draft out of high school, and 70 games of indifferent play by a kid at 18 and 19 isn't a death knell, especially when he's matching Durant shot for shots in summer camps and seemingly a good dude who works hard, but his college career is too scary for me to have him ahead of Lamb, who I am rooting for with the 8th pick.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Harrison Barnes 

Post#146 » by Dr Positivity » Sat May 5, 2012 6:41 pm

Barnes is to Glen Rice as Beal is to Ray Allen. It's not impossible but on DX's database Barnes had the 29th best 3P% for players listed at SF on their charts this year and Beal had the 53rd highest for SGs. Barnes had the 38th highest FT% for SGs, Beal had the 31st highest FT% for SGs. Barnes had the 33rd highest 3PA for SFs, Beal had the 30th highest 3PA for SGs. Basically it's taking two players who are around the 30th best shooters at their position this year in the NCAA by all the best statistical metrics possible, and then saying they can be Allen and Rice, arguably top 3 shooters at the SG and SF positions all time in the NBA. I just think it's aiming for way too unlikely a scenario and I would rather assume a player is merely good at a skill instead of incredible at it until they prove themselves in the NBA, unless say they're actually in the situation Rice was coming out of college (where he shot 51% on 3s on 5 attempts a game on his way to 26ppg)
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Harrison Barnes 

Post#147 » by fredericklove » Sat May 5, 2012 7:06 pm

Ell Curry wrote:Glen Rice shot over 55% all 4 seasons at Michigan. Barnes shot 42% as a frosh and 44% as a sophomore.

When I watched Barnes, I saw the size, co-ordination and athleticism to be a good scorer at the 3 in the NBA, but a non-factor in terms of rebounds, steals, blocks and man on man D. So, you're hoping for a Caron Butler or Glen Rice type lesser all star career. However, the guy would have to score much more efficiently in the pros than he did in college to be worth the 8th pick. He put up True Shooting marks of .52 and .528. That's ugly for a wing scoring prospect. Going by actual production, I'd say Barnes had the 2nd worst year of any lottery pick, goign by DraftExpress' mock. I was tempted to have him last, but Drummond, hit 29% of his FT's and barely touched the ball on offense and didn't rebound defensively very well, though preferring a 7 foot shot blocker who offensive rebounds well over an inefficient volume scorer is reasonable. Also, Barnes played big minutes on a good defensive team, which counts for something even when you're not the main reason why. Looking at the 1st round, I'd say, statistically, Barnes' year was probably like 23-24th best, with only Drummond, Austin Rivers, Marquis Teague, Royce White, Quincy Miller and Tony Wroten having less impressive seasons and Fournier not playing in the NCAA.

As a freshman, I get that a guy might take too many long 2's or struggle in the P+R or whatever. It happens to lots of guys, but it's hard to find a really successful NBA 3 who struggled as a sophomore like Barnes. Rudy Gay had similar scoring numbers, but higher rebound, steal and block rates. He also hit 50 percent of his shots inside the arc (Barnes was at 47) but struggled from 3 point land. Basically, he had a cold year from outside but was otherwise better, though not dramatically so (apart from blocks) across the board.

3 pt shooting doesn't always translate (these are 18-21 year old kids without finished jumpers in many cases and the line is different). But scoring inside the arc should. If you draft Barnes, you're hoping he makes the changes Josh Smith finally did the last couple years, realizing what's a good shot and what isn't. And Barnes might be taking the best shots he can get, rather than settling. I didn't watch enough UNC to speak on that. I could deal with him as the 8th pick, because he would have gone 2 or 3 after Wall and fighting with Evan Turner had he been able to enter the 2010 draft out of high school, and 70 games of indifferent play by a kid at 18 and 19 isn't a death knell, especially when he's matching Durant shot for shots in summer camps and seemingly a good dude who works hard, but his college career is too scary for me to have him ahead of Lamb, who I am rooting for with the 8th pick.


Umm Ell, I don't think inadequate time spent on UNC games should solidify your claim on Barnes' being a non-factor on man on man D. If anything, its his weakside D that needs improvement, but his man on man D is pretty outstanding so far (excellent footwork and lateral quickness, always maintain low stance, and always spread his long arms out to disrupt the passing lane. And he avg 5ish reb which isn't bad considering he plays alongside with Henson (avg 10 reb) and Zeller who also avg 10 reb...there's not much rebound to share equally with, especially when both bigs always there in the paint on the defensive/offensive board.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Harrison Barnes 

Post#148 » by kingz32 » Sat May 5, 2012 7:50 pm

Harrison Barnes is muscular, I wouldn't call him extremely athletic. He has a strong upper body and I think that if he develops a good post game with a fadeaway and up and under with better post footwork he will have a good career. Especially since he can knock down the mid range jumper and three. However, he is not the type of SF who will break his man down one-on-one from the wing. He doesn't have the dribble or evasiveness for that with his footwork. So to be successful, he will have to camp at the 3pt line on certain possessions, or establish positioning with his back to the basket from about 10ft out on the elbow. He basically needs to play the post game James Johnson has played this season.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Harrison Barnes 

Post#149 » by team edward » Sun May 6, 2012 2:05 pm

Young_Buc wrote:Only remember Glen Rice on the heat via NBA Jam so I can't be trusted on to make an accurate comparison. But this video pretty much looks Harrison Barnsey.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlPsneqFyH8

My thoughts exactly. But do you think Harrison Barnes has already slept with a future vice-presidential candidate?
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Harrison Barnes 

Post#150 » by MEDIC » Mon May 7, 2012 3:49 am

Looks like JJ level athleticism in these clips.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5xy7I-R7lQ&list=UUtA1fanU-infOsCodhDiroA&index=340&feature=plpp_video[/youtube]

Also like his defensive intensity:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6ev8Fofk7c&list=UUtA1fanU-infOsCodhDiroA&index=336&feature=plpp_video[/youtube]
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Harrison Barnes 

Post#151 » by bonjovi0308 » Mon May 7, 2012 5:45 am

His athleticism looks worse than Demar's, and he looks slow!!!!!
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Harrison Barnes 

Post#152 » by fredericklove » Mon May 7, 2012 7:46 am

bonjovi0308 wrote:His athleticism looks worse than Demar's, and he looks slow!!!!!


You're comparing Barnes to one of league's explosive athletes?
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Harrison Barnes 

Post#153 » by fatal9 » Mon May 7, 2012 11:34 am

Barnes looked more agile/athletic to me in his freshman year for some reason. Probably because of the added weight, sometimes the upper body can be ahead of the lower body. I remember when I saw him in the first game of this season, his upper body looked jacked compared to his freshman year.

fredericklove wrote:
bonjovi0308 wrote:His athleticism looks worse than Demar's, and he looks slow!!!!!


You're comparing Barnes to one of league's explosive athletes?

DeMar's explosiveness is overrated. He can jump high with a run up, but as far as being explosive in a way that is practical during a game? He doesn't have it. Can't regularly explode and dunk or finish over guys in the lane (his no-step vert was only 29 inches), part of the reason he sucks at finishing plays in the lane. And his speed/quickness/acceleration are all average at best (below average if we go by his draft measurements). He's "explosive" if you are having a dunk contest but during an actual game, not so much.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Harrison Barnes 

Post#154 » by 5DOM » Mon May 7, 2012 11:56 am

I think they are similar level athletes, but DeMar's not one of the league's most explosive athletes.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Harrison Barnes 

Post#155 » by Undefeated » Mon May 7, 2012 3:44 pm

There's more to athleticism than how high you jump or how quick and fast you are. One thing for sure is Barnes isn't a jump out of the building type athlete like DeMar. However, Barnes makes far better use of his vertical and explosiveness than DeMar I'd argue. A lot of times, Barnes doesn't even need a running start to get up at the rim unlike DeMar who needs the head of steam. It's because he's got that instant vertical quickness that allows him to get off the floor within tenths of a second. Rarely did we see Barnes get his lay-up attempt block because he was so fast off the floor that the defender couldn't react quickly enough. And when you combine that with his superb body control, that's a pretty damn good athlete. His athleticism are more for in-game material than when he's alone in the gym doing wicked dunks.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Harrison Barnes 

Post#156 » by MEDIC » Mon May 7, 2012 6:39 pm

I don't understand why a SF's "athleticism" (I assume you mean the ability to jump) needs to be as good as Demar's. There isn't a SF in this draft that has Demar's ability to jump.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Harrison Barnes 

Post#157 » by fredericklove » Mon May 7, 2012 6:45 pm

fatal9 wrote:Barnes looked more agile/athletic to me in his freshman year for some reason. Probably because of the added weight, sometimes the upper body can be ahead of the lower body. I remember when I saw him in the first game of this season, his upper body looked jacked compared to his freshman year.

fredericklove wrote:
bonjovi0308 wrote:His athleticism looks worse than Demar's, and he looks slow!!!!!


You're comparing Barnes to one of league's explosive athletes?

DeMar's explosiveness is overrated. He can jump high with a run up, but as far as being explosive in a way that is practical during a game? He doesn't have it. Can't regularly explode and dunk or finish over guys in the lane (his no-step vert was only 29 inches), part of the reason he sucks at finishing plays in the lane. And his speed/quickness/acceleration are all average at best (below average if we go by his draft measurements). He's "explosive" if you are having a dunk contest but during an actual game, not so much.


Nah, I say he is pretty explosive going to the rim. What you're really referring to is his lack of first step thus explains why he seems slow but otherwise, after getting by his defender, he'll explode (not dunks but to draw contact), his full speed burst on the drive is stemmed from obvious athleticism. You see the times he even exploded in the lane during that miami game against the likes of Lebron and D-Wade, and many other games where he used his athleticism to get to the line...those are parts of his athletic traits.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Harrison Barnes 

Post#158 » by Waylon Mercy » Thu May 10, 2012 3:11 am

This is the guy they are gonna go all out to find a way to draft him or trade for him.
He makes the most sense and is the best most realistic SF we can get since Lebron, Durant,
Pierce, Granger, Gay etc are unlikely to move. His scoring, 3 point shooting, size, natural
fit and ability to spread the floor will be to much for the Raps to not go all out for him.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Harrison Barnes 

Post#159 » by Volcano » Thu May 10, 2012 3:27 am

fredericklove wrote:Nah, I say he is pretty explosive going to the rim. What you're really referring to is his lack of first step thus explains why he seems slow but otherwise, after getting by his defender, he'll explode (not dunks but to draw contact), his full speed burst on the drive is stemmed from obvious athleticism. You see the times he even exploded in the lane during that miami game against the likes of Lebron and D-Wade, and many other games where he used his athleticism to get to the line...those are parts of his athletic traits.


now that I've seen your analysis on Derozan, I'm completely against Barnes now
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Harrison Barnes 

Post#160 » by OAKLEY_2 » Thu May 10, 2012 3:34 am

He is going to be VERY good. Not flashy but will be effective especially as a shooter and defender.

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