First Round Playoff Thread

[europa]

Chris Tomasson ‏@christomasson
LeBron is 2-6 in career in playoff elimination games. Wins were at home Game 6 Boston 2008 & Game 5 Orlando 2009 Ended up losing both series

[Newz]

Regarding Wade's defense: Wade's not always defending Rondo but NBA.com posted a stat today which said that when Wade is on the court Rondo's shooting 25% from the floor. So it's certainly not all bad defensively for the Heat when Wade is on the court.

I'm not sure how the entirety of the Heat losing the series (if they do) is on Wade when in Game 5 Wade played as well as he did in the fourth quarter. He was a stud for the Heat with the game and perhaps the series on the line. I'm not sure why that continues to be ignored in this discussion.

The agenda continues... as Europa believes that one quarter out of the twenty quarters in the series should define how well someone has played.

Wade has overall been bad. The last game, outside of the fourth quarter, it didn't even look like he was trying. I mean just go back and look at the comments people are making during the games. They are all the same: "What the hell is Wade doing?" or "Wade has been terrible."

He's not playing well, he's not playing up to the level that he has to if the Heat want to win. I'm not sure why that continues to be ignored in this discussion.

[Wooderson]

Boston is a damn good defensive team. I'm not saying he's played great, but he's been far from awful. And none of this really touches the primary point here, which is LeBron kind of shying away from offensive takeover responsibilities late in games. LeBron is the toughest guy on Earth to stop, not Wade. Why is he going 9 minutes between points in the 4th quarter of a close game in a 2-2 series? For a player of his talent, it's honestly inexcusable.

1. Wade has been pathetic in the first half, forcing LeBron to carry the load most of the game for the Heat to even keep pace.
2. The role players have been terrible. They are shooting below 30% from 3 in the series, making them pretty much worthless on the court. Especially against a team like Boston who is so good at making adjustments and can just pack the paint and watch Miami flounder.
3. No Bosh.

That doesn't mean LeBron is exempt from criticism, but he is not anywhere near MIAs biggest problem at the moment. And if just one of those points above plays anywhere near their normal level, the Heat have this series wrapped up in 5 or 6 games max.

Also, if literally any other player in the league did what LeBron did last night, it would have been considered a great game and the narrative would have been that he didn't have enough help. Take Kobe for example, when he shot the ball well against Thunder but still got beat (while chucking at ridiculous levels) the story was that Kobe was "doing it all by himself" or Pau played "soft". When the same thing happens to LeBron, the narrative is "LeBron chokes again".

[Newz]

Also, if literally any other player in the league did what LeBron did last night, it would have been considered a great game and the narrative would have been that he didn't have enough help. Take Kobe for example, when he shot the ball well against Thunder but still got beat (while chucking at ridiculous levels) the story was that Kobe was "doing it all by himself" or Pau played "soft". When the same thing happens to LeBron, the narrative is "LeBron chokes again".

Yup.

[Wooderson]

Regarding Wade's defense: Wade's not always defending Rondo but NBA.com posted a stat today which said that when Wade is on the court Rondo's shooting 25% from the floor. So it's certainly not all bad defensively for the Heat when Wade is on the court.

I'm not sure how the entirety of the Heat losing the series (if they do) is on Wade when in Game 5 Wade played as well as he did in the fourth quarter. He was a stud for the Heat with the game and perhaps the series on the line. I'm not sure why that continues to be ignored in this discussion.

Because the Heat would have had double digit leads at halftime of games 3, 4, and 5 if Wade hadn't been poop. Different ball game.

[LUKE23]

To me, when people try to blame LeBron for his team losing while he's putting up 30/9/6 on 57% TS%... when the other "top 5 player" is putting up Monta Ellis like numbers, it shows that they have an agenda. That's not saying you can't point out obvious things LeBron lacks (such as not scoring very much in the fourth quarter of game 5)... but he's the best player on their team, he's played like it and he's overall done his part.

Overall looking at the raw game numbers, sure. But conference finals games consistently go down to the wire. People can call it fair or unfair, but that's when players get judged most, any sport. LeBron is fully capable of taking over games offensively late in games, yet he doesn't. That is a very legit criticism. As I said before, Jordan wouldn't be caught dead going being as passive offensively as LeBron was for 75% of the 4th last night.

[europa]

Regarding Wade's defense: Wade's not always defending Rondo but NBA.com posted a stat today which said that when Wade is on the court Rondo's shooting 25% from the floor. So it's certainly not all bad defensively for the Heat when Wade is on the court.

I'm not sure how the entirety of the Heat losing the series (if they do) is on Wade when in Game 5 Wade played as well as he did in the fourth quarter. He was a stud for the Heat with the game and perhaps the series on the line. I'm not sure why that continues to be ignored in this discussion.

The agenda continues... as Europa believes that one quarter out of the twenty quarters in the series should define how well someone has played.

Yeah I realize it's a crazy notion to believe that what a player does in crunch times of a close game might have meaningful value. I realize that when people look at Paul Pierce's game last night they'll probably say he was awful despite hitting what was arguably the biggest shot of the series. It definitely makes sense to ignore that big play he made because he shot poorly for most of the night. Yeah, you're right I see no reason to focus on the importance of that one play or how someone performs when the game is on the line. I mean, who cares what a player does then, right? Not like those plays matter much.

[europa]

Regarding Wade's defense: Wade's not always defending Rondo but NBA.com posted a stat today which said that when Wade is on the court Rondo's shooting 25% from the floor. So it's certainly not all bad defensively for the Heat when Wade is on the court.

I'm not sure how the entirety of the Heat losing the series (if they do) is on Wade when in Game 5 Wade played as well as he did in the fourth quarter. He was a stud for the Heat with the game and perhaps the series on the line. I'm not sure why that continues to be ignored in this discussion.

Because the Heat would have had double digit leads at halftime of games 3, 4, and 5 if Wade hadn't been poop. Different ball game.

And perhaps they win those games and others if LeBron had been more assertive when the game was on the line. We can play this game all day long. As I posted earlier, when the Heat win it's because of how great LeBron is. When they lose, it's because the talent around him didn't get it done.

[Newz]

Paul Pierce has been, for the most part, not very good outside of that one big shot.

So does Pierce making that one big shot mean he's carried the team on his back? That he's contributed more than Rondo or KG? Or does it mean that he just made one shot?

I do think it's crazy to say one quarter out of twenty quarters should define a player or remove blame from him overall playing way below the level he is capable of... regardless of if that quarter is the fourth quarter or the first quarter.

[Badgerlander]

http://deadspin.com/5916342/good-job-go ... ut-history

Here's a sampling of "Good Job, Good Effort" kid's reaction to some of history's great moments.

[europa]

So does Pierce making that one big shot mean he's carried the team on his back? That he's contributed more than Rondo or KG? Or does it mean that he just made one shot?

It means that when the game, and perhaps the series, was on the line he delivered.

[Newz]

And perhaps they win those games and others if LeBron had been more assertive when the game was on the line. We can play this game all day long. As I posted earlier, when the Heat win it's because of how great LeBron is. When they lose, it's because the talent around him didn't get it done.

That isn't what people are saying at all. People know LeBron should be more assertive at the end of the games. I myself have said that the Dallas series last year is primarily on LeBron's shoulders since he played way below the level he is capable of playing at.

But when he comes out and does stuff like 30/9/6 on a 57% TS% and you say he needs to do more... you realize you're saying he needs to put up numbers like 36/11/8 or something absolutely insane that pretty much no other player in the history of the NBA has put up, right?

[europa]

http://deadspin.com/5916342/good-job-good-effort-kid-as-heard-throughout-history

Here's a sampling of "Good Job, Good Effort" kid's reaction to some of history's great moments.

The Heat seriously need to find this kid and give him season tickets if he doesn't have them already.

[Newz]

So does Pierce making that one big shot mean he's carried the team on his back? That he's contributed more than Rondo or KG? Or does it mean that he just made one shot?

It means that when the game, and perhaps the series, was on the line he delivered.

He delivered... with one shot... after his team kept them in the game the entire time. Or he could have just not played like poop for a majority of the series and he wouldn't have had to hit a last second shot.

The value people put on one shot in one quarter in the NBA is insane.

You guys are starting to sound like Skip Bayless talking about Aaron Rodgers. "WELL YEAH SURE HE PUTS UP GREAT NUMBERS! BUT HE FUMBLED AGAINST TEH CARDINALZZZ!!!!"

[europa]

But when he comes out and does stuff like 30/9/6 on a 57% TS% and you say he needs to do more... you realize you're saying he needs to put up numbers like 36/11/8 or something absolutely insane that pretty much no other player in the history of the NBA has put up, right?

I think he needs to be more assertive and decisive late in games. That's been a huge problem I've had with him for a long time. That's why I think he wanted to go to Miami. Wade doesn't have that problem. Wade wants the ball in those situations. LeBron typically wants to pass it and sometimes he has the look of a guy who wants to get rid of it quickly rather than taking the ball and making a game-changing play.

In last night's game, I thought Wade played extremely well in the fourth quarter. He's the last person I would criticize for the Heat's loss.

[Newz]

In last night's game, I thought Wade played extremely well in the fourth quarter. He's the last person I would criticize for the Heat's loss.

Yup. He played well offensively in the fourth quarter.

Not a big deal he was putting in little to no effort offensively the rest of the game and wasn't getting back on D consistently.

[Badgerlander]

http://deadspin.com/5916342/good-job-good-effort-kid-as-heard-throughout-history

Here's a sampling of "Good Job, Good Effort" kid's reaction to some of history's great moments.

The Heat seriously need to find this kid and give him season tickets if he doesn't have them already.

We need a group of clips on Hammond moves from drafting Joe Alexander to announcing the Jax trade etc with the kid in the background.

[europa]

The value people put on one shot in one quarter in the NBA is insane.

That may be true but in this case it was essentially a game-winning shot on the road in a 2-2 series with a potential trip to the NBA Finals on the line. I don't think it's insane to call it a huge play and to give Pierce a ton of credit for making it. There are typically a select number of huge plays in a close game (especially in the playoffs) that prove critical to the outcome. Pierce made the biggest last night. I think Rondo made the second-biggest on his tipout. The biggest plays from the Heat last night with the game on the line came primarily from Wade with Chalmers' 3 being the lone exception. LeBron needed to put his stamp on the game in some fashion but he didn't do it. It's not the first time this has happened either.

ETA - I'm not saying LeBron has played poorly because he hasn't. But when you're the MVP the expectations rise considerably. And when you're the MVP and your team needs you to step up and take command of a 2-2 series that could be slipping away you need to do it. Where was LeBron with the game on the line last night? I think that's a fair question to ask.

[Newz]

LeBron didn't put his stamp on the game? What about, you know... making sure that they didn't just get totally blown off of the court?

Seriously, what a joke of an argument.

[europa]

LeBron didn't put his stamp on the game?

What big plays did he make in the fourth quarter with the game on the line? Simple question.