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Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 12

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Would you be happy if the Raptors drafted... (check all that apply)

Harrison Barnes
154
21%
Andre Drummond
90
12%
John Henson
7
1%
Perry Jones III
63
9%
Terrence Jones
22
3%
Jeremy Lamb
159
22%
Damian Lillard
80
11%
Kendall Marshall
52
7%
Austin Rivers
59
8%
Jared Sullinger
50
7%
 
Total votes: 736

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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 12 

Post#1301 » by kdizzle » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:11 am

northernlight wrote:Thanks. That's really very broad-minded because I know that a pure distributer with limited offensive skills and defensive issues is a stretch at 8. I liked him originally but have pretty much been convinced Lamb or Lilliard have more potential provided none of the top guys slip.

What attracted me to Marshall was that he appears to possess one skill at an elite level. Normally a one-trick-pony would be dismissed quickly especially one with the defects you have pointed out, however, this skill makes everyone else better and that makes a difference. I am not an apologist for Demar or Andrea but getting the ball at the right time in the right spot makes players better because they can make their moves and shots on balance with a bit more room.

What moved me to sign in and write was that it was posted that his teammate's performance became mediocre once Kendall was injured. That teammate will likely go very high.

I don't expect him to be our pick but I think that he will have many happy over-productive teammates where ever he goes.


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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 12 

Post#1302 » by load management » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:14 am

Do not want

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Want Nash/Lillard
**** the Tony Brothers
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 12 

Post#1303 » by Aidin » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:18 am

Sam Amick
Sacramento (No. 5) has its first workout on Monday, featuring John Henson (North Carolina), Drew Gordon (New Mexico), Charlie Westbrook (South Dakota), Ricardo Ratliffe (Missouri), Yancy Gates (Cincinnati), Oscar Bellfield (UNLV). Henson is legitimately in play for their pick

Sam Amick
More info on big- time workout at Golden State on Monday: Baylor forward Perry Jones will match up against Kentucky forward Terrence Jones, with North Carolina's Tyler Zeller, and Vanderbilt big man Festus Ezeli also expected to take part.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 12 

Post#1304 » by DG88 » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:20 am

turner10 wrote:
Jeff Goodman ‏@GoodmanCBS
Kendall Marshall scheduled to workout for Toronto, Phoenix and Dallas this week, per source. Toronto (M/T), Phoenix (W/TH) and Dallas (Fri.)

Lillard is also coming up this week so I guess he's going against Marshall
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 12 

Post#1305 » by kdizzle » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:21 am

I have been debating this topic with my friends. Kendall Marshall has jkidd like vision. If you have a player with an elite skill, then you draft them. Marshall has a skill that makes his team more productive and can net you an additional 5 to 7 wins at the end of the season. Yes he has slow lateral quickness, but that can be made up by his steals and ability to hit the 3pt shot.

Kendal Marshall has amazing ball IQ and is a talent should not be passed up. This is reminding me of BC drafting DD in front of Jennings. You knew that Jennings was special, it just did not translate to the euro game.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 12 

Post#1306 » by Marlo Stanfield » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:40 am

kdizzle wrote:I have been debating this topic with my friends. Kendall Marshall has jkidd like vision. If you have a player with an elite skill, then you draft them. Marshall has a skill that makes his team more productive and can net you an additional 5 to 7 wins at the end of the season. Yes he has slow lateral quickness, but that can be made up by his steals and ability to hit the 3pt shot.

Kendal Marshall has amazing ball IQ and is a talent should not be passed up. This is reminding me of BC drafting DD in front of Jennings. You knew that Jennings was special, it just did not translate to the euro game.


Two things:

1) Jason Kidd is a legend who filled up the stat sheet, not just the assist column. Think more Mark Jackson.

2) Jennings is not special, he's a volume shooter.
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Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 12 

Post#1307 » by Undefeated » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:41 am

Errrr I'm not sure if Marshall is good at picking pockets. He's got slow hands.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 12 

Post#1308 » by drew_28 » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:44 am

after watching that interview with Lamb it reaffirms the fears I had while watching him play at UCONN. The kid just doesn't seem to care at all! He doesn't look like he'll work hard to get better, I think he'll coast on his natural talent and become at best a role player, and at worst out of this league in three years.

I'm not jumping on the Rivers bandwagon...but at least the guy is genuinely excited to be going through this process and will undoubtedly work hard wherever he goes.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 12 

Post#1309 » by fredericklove » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:33 am

So how you know Lamb isn't also genuinely excited to be going through this process and will undoubtedly work hard wherever he goes? Because his weird eyes dumb expression shows no excitement, is that why?
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 12 

Post#1310 » by S.W.A.N » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:52 am

fredericklove wrote:So how you know Lamb isn't also genuinely excited to be going through this process and will undoubtedly work hard wherever he goes? Because his weird eyes dumb expression shows no excitement, is that why?



looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck... pretty good chance its a duck.

I not saying don't draft lamb, but if his interviews didn't raise red flags for you then you are being pretty obtuse.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 12 

Post#1311 » by Anatomize » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:03 am

^ In the end though, regardless of how you interview, it comes down to whether you perform on the court or not. Dealing with a variety of attitudes is something NBA GMs/Coaches will always have to deal with. It's pretty hard to round out your entire roster with high character guys and expect them all to be supremely talented, here and there rosters will stumble upon questionable attitudes with immense talent and you have to be able to mold them into your system and reel them in. Cousins is a great example (Smart succeeded where Westphal could not).
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 12 

Post#1312 » by Marlo Stanfield » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:14 am

Kevin Durant failed everything at the combine. I think he turned out pretty good. Not saying Lamb is Durant by any means, just don't get too caught up in things off the court.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 12 

Post#1313 » by raptor jesus » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:59 am

I want to like Lamb. His talent is immense. But I can't ignore his blase attitude. He doesn't know where he's working out, he doesn't know much, if anything, about any of the teams he could potentially end up on. On the other hand, being a main component of a national champion and the best performer on a USA roster suggest he prefers to do his talking on the court. That being said, I give the edge to a bulldog like Waiters at this point. I'll take a guy who's aggressive, perhaps even to a fault, than a lay-down-Sally.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 12 

Post#1314 » by fredericklove » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:46 am

S.W.A.N wrote:
fredericklove wrote:So how you know Lamb isn't also genuinely excited to be going through this process and will undoubtedly work hard wherever he goes? Because his weird eyes dumb expression shows no excitement, is that why?



looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck... pretty good chance its a duck.

I not saying don't draft lamb, but if his interviews didn't raise red flags for you then you are being pretty obtuse.


if these duck facial expressions/duck verbal responses are the perceived red flags that you think will prevent him to showcast his skillset on the floor, then I say you are being pretty absurd. :roll:
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 12 

Post#1315 » by Waylon Mercy » Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:02 am

Lets not underestimate the possibility of someone slipping from tier 1...

There is rumors saying GS is zeroing in on Perry Jones and Terrence Jones is they take 1
of them and Portland takes Lillard that means one of MKG, Robinson, Drummond, Beal, or
Barnes slips to us.

Last 2 drafts Ed Davis and Valanciunas slipped to us and there's some notoriously dumb drafting
teams in front of us that could do something zany and unexpected.

The Raps and Hornets are direct threats to take Lilliard before Portland picks again at 11
and they could gobble him at up at 6 to be safe.

Golden State seems destined to reach for a SF than take BPA...

Who falls to 8 of Drummond, MKG, Robinson, Barnes or Beal is hard to say
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 12 

Post#1316 » by S.W.A.N » Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:36 am

fredericklove wrote:
S.W.A.N wrote:
fredericklove wrote:So how you know Lamb isn't also genuinely excited to be going through this process and will undoubtedly work hard wherever he goes? Because his weird eyes dumb expression shows no excitement, is that why?



looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck... pretty good chance its a duck.

I not saying don't draft lamb, but if his interviews didn't raise red flags for you then you are being pretty obtuse.


if these duck facial expressions/duck verbal responses are the perceived red flags that you think will prevent him to showcast his skillset on the floor, then I say you are being pretty absurd. :roll:



If you think that interviews mean nothing then I am not the one being absurd. His skillset on the floor is obviously going to be the majority of what he is judged on but when you have it narrowed down to a small group of guys with similar on court production you have to go beyond that to find out who to draft.

Gerald Green is an obvious example, a guy who many wanted to draft here yet despite good body and on court production fell down the draft boards. Obviously his interviews showed his immaturity.

Stepping up from being a good college player to becoming a good pro is as much mental as it is physical. Many kids that declare for the draft should of stayed in school but the reality is that teams don't reward players for staying in school.

Lamb may be a great pro, or he could be a kid that doesn't have the desire to put in the needed work to take that next step. That is the whole point of the interview process, to try get a feel for the maturity, intelligence, basketball iq and desire a kid has.

Lamb doesn't show much of these during interviews. For crying out loud what college basketball player doesn't know who is on the blazers roster...

He may be a good kid that has a lowsy agent that has done terrible job preparing his client for draft but the fact remains, his interviews probably did not help his case for being a lotto pick
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 12 

Post#1317 » by fredericklove » Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:10 am

S.W.A.N wrote:

If you think that interviews mean nothing then I am not the one being absurd. His skillset on the floor is obviously going to be the majority of what he is judged on but when you have it narrowed down to a small group of guys with similar on court production you have to go beyond that to find out who to draft.

Gerald Green is an obvious example, a guy who many wanted to draft here yet despite good body and on court production fell down the draft boards. Obviously his interviews showed his immaturity.

Stepping up from being a good college player to becoming a good pro is as much mental as it is physical. Many kids that declare for the draft should of stayed in school but the reality is that teams don't reward players for staying in school.

Lamb may be a great pro, or he could be a kid that doesn't have the desire to put in the needed work to take that next step. That is the whole point of the interview process, to try get a feel for the maturity, intelligence, basketball iq and desire a kid has.

Lamb doesn't show much of these during interviews. For crying out loud what college basketball player doesn't know who is on the blazers roster...

He may be a good kid that has a lowsy agent that has done terrible job preparing his client for draft but the fact remains, his interviews probably did not help his case for being a lotto pick


Gerald Green is one bad comparative example because he has limited skillset, nevertheless the lack of self-discipline to improve his game but also because his skillset level isn't really off the chart and most of all, he relies heavily on his athleticism. A raw game without a strong mentality or desires, it'll of course hinder Green's development even more.

That comparison isn't the same for Lamb, what happens to Green isn't happening to Lamb cos Lamb has a pretty advanced skillset and smoothness/maturity to his game. For Green, he has a raw game which is further complicated by poor mentality. Not a good comparative example.

The interview process is not going to get a feel of bbiq, how you're going to determine that when he isn't even on the floor playing. Interviews can find out about desires, but that desire should also be evaluated through from how much time and effort he puts into the gym, and whether he wants to improve his game to other level so those desires can't be quickly measured from the interviews alone. Also maturity is an unfair measures because you cant expect a 19 or 20 yr old coming into the league w/ maturity right away, its built up through experiences on the court, so these interviews are just getting a feel out of a player, it shouldn't be used to jump to a quick conclusion about everything.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 12 

Post#1318 » by McFurious1 » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:55 am

Lamb is no Reggie Miller red flags stay away
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 12 

Post#1319 » by Waylon Mercy » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:55 am

looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck... pretty good chance its a duck.

I not saying don't draft lamb, but if his interviews didn't raise red flags for you then you are being pretty obtuse.

if these duck facial expressions/duck verbal responses are the perceived red flags that you think will prevent him to showcast his skillset on the floor, then I say you are being pretty absurd. :roll:


If you think that interviews mean nothing then I am not the one being absurd. His skillset on the floor is obviously going to be the majority of what he is judged on but when you have it narrowed down to a small group of guys with similar on court production you have to go beyond that to find out who to draft.

Gerald Green is an obvious example, a guy who many wanted to draft here yet despite good body and on court production fell down the draft boards. Obviously his interviews showed his immaturity.

Stepping up from being a good college player to becoming a good pro is as much mental as it is physical. Many kids that declare for the draft should of stayed in school but the reality is that teams don't reward players for staying in school.

Lamb may be a great pro, or he could be a kid that doesn't have the desire to put in the needed work to take that next step. That is the whole point of the interview process, to try get a feel for the maturity, intelligence, basketball iq and desire a kid has.

Lamb doesn't show much of these during interviews. For crying out loud what college basketball player doesn't know who is on the blazers roster...

He may be a good kid that has a lowsy agent that has done terrible job preparing his client for draft but the fact remains, his interviews probably did not help his case for being a lotto pick



Its amazing how Lamb is getting killed for this interview. To me he basically sounded
exactly like Bosh from 2003-2006. Soft spoken laid back and not exactly the sharpest
knife in the drawer. Bosh turned out to be all right as what a 7 time All-Star now or
something along those lines.

I don't get what people want...Its the 8th pick in the draft he doesn't have a killer instinct
hes not a leader hes not gonna be a number 1 option on offense so who the hell is
in this draft...possibly Rivers but his critics will tell you hes a selfish ball hog whos cocky
and has tunnel vision.

If we do draft him at 8 were getting a guy who was on Team USA Under 19 Fiba team the
second leading scorer on a National Championship team as a freshaman and a guy whos
a good shooter is athletic is a good ball handler can create his own shot among other
things.

But people wanna ignore that because he didnt know the household name of Nicolas Batum
or the nucleus of a team that blew up half its roster at the trade deadline lost Roy and Oden
before that and has a few key FAs.

Lamb has his faults like everybody else no perfect prospect exists at 8 which is a reason
most players taken at 8 bust.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 12 

Post#1320 » by Anatomize » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:59 am

I have to admit, as much as I like Lamb, that little tidbit about the Blazers (barely recognizing Aldridge's name, calling batum 'that light-skinned guy', etc.) is very alarming.

These guys in college that expect to go to the NBA are supposed to live and breathe basketball (especially the NBA). If you're unfamiliar with one of the most recognized teams in the Western conference, then you have some issues.

Not to mention, in this day and age, the majority of young college/NBA players play NBA 2k..how the hell do you not know an NBA team's roster?

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