Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb (HOU)

[fredericklove]

I don't dismiss stats if they are all from the same level of competition in college.

[pharring]

Still haven't heard a good answer for what we do with DeRozan if we draft Lamb.

I know, I know... BPA... but the BPA strategy also assumes you do something about your roster redundancies. The Weems/DeRozan line-up was a huge success... in Vegas.

[Mister Ze]

Still haven't heard a good answer for what we do with DeRozan if we draft Lamb.

I know, I know... BPA... but the BPA strategy also assumes you do something about your roster redundancies. The Weems/DeRozan line-up was a huge success... in Vegas.

The team is shooting for the playoffs and they already have a rookie in their starting lineup. I say have Lamb/Rivers come off the bench for Demar where they can bring some scoring to the second unit. If Demar sucks and doesn't deserve to start then trade/bench him but I think it's important to have depth at the guard position.

Lamb/Rivers will be the Harden for this team.

[pharring]

Still haven't heard a good answer for what we do with DeRozan if we draft Lamb.

I know, I know... BPA... but the BPA strategy also assumes you do something about your roster redundancies. The Weems/DeRozan line-up was a huge success... in Vegas.

The team is shooting for the playoffs and they already have a rookie in their starting lineup. I say have Lamb/Rivers come off the bench for Demar where they can bring some scoring to the second unit. If Demar sucks and doesn't deserve to start then trade/bench him but I think it's important to have depth at the guard position.

Lamb/Rivers will be the Harden for this team.

I'd be surprises if Valanciunas starts. During his first few months, he is bound to be a foul machine. Wings acclimate to the speed of the NBA faster than bigs, especially Euro bigs.

[Mister Ze]

From what I've heard from posters Aaron Gray will be re-signed, so I don't see why he should start over Val. If the team goes after Kaman or Hawes then absolutely.

[Double Helix]

DH that makes Lillards ratio of 1.94:1 look very good

Looks very good from a weaker conference, good logic.

Well, for one thing it IS good. But as FL just stated... it is a pretty dramatically different conference and Lillard's role in the NBA also won't be anywhere near as aggressive as it was at Weber State. Rodney Stuckey's FGA/FTA ratio from the same conference to the NBA is pretty similar but both his FGAs and FTAs are down from what he did in the Big Sky. Lillard's not going to be getting to the free throw line 10 x a game obviously in the NBA but he could get there 4-5 times just as Stuckey now does. That will still be huge and it's one of the major reasons he's a lottery pick along with his 3 point shooting and work ethic.

All that said, Lamb's numbers are more likely to translate because at UCONN he did was part of a unit that featured NBA talent and not the only show the way Lillard was. Lamb very well could average even more FGAs at the next level, whereas it's hard to imagine Lillard doing the same.

And nobody's ever questioned Lillard's FTAs, 3 point shooting, body or work ethic. They question whether he can run a team as well as all the other great PGs already in the league. They question whether he's a pure PG or not. People know Lamb's a pure SG. He does everything old school 90s style SGs used to do. They do call it the "shooting guard" position after all and the way he scores is in line with what you'd like to see from a non superstar SG that projects to be in that Kevin Martin-esque level of quality (2nd tier star).

Lillard, by comparison, hasn't been able to convince teams that he can be a pure PG because all he has unfortunately are his own claims that he can pass better than he showed. Scouts haven't seen it. He's not going head-to-head against other guards or willling to play even 3 on 3 so these 1 on none sessions aren't giving evaluators an opportunity to test the one thing they have concerns over. If Lillard CAN pass and DOES start leading teams he's going to make the team who drafted him VERY HAPPY. If he can't he may struggle a little like Bayless did adjusting to the spot. And with so many other good PGs in the league right now (21 PGs in the NBA have PERs of 17.0 or higher right now) it was in his best interest to try and answer the one question teams have about his ability to play the point at the next level. He hasn't done that and that's why players with more clearly defined positions and less question marks are probably going to be taken a little higher than him.

He'll still be a lottery pick. He'll still be an impact PG. But all we can do right now is guess about how well he'll lead a team, get them into their sets, make teammates better and execute team defence. If he nails all of those things then he'll be star. The good news for Raptors fans is that so long as we choose Lamb... even IF all those things come true for him... we may have a star at the SG spot ourselves anyway.

Hell, we could have Dragic or Nash here next year to help take the sting out of anything he does anyway.

[Mister Ze]

Word is that Raptors GM Bryan Colangelo is extremely high on Jeremy Lamb.

http://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-draft-50

Is this BS? I haven't heard BC praise him much.

[Undefeated]

jeremy lamb is known to be too reliant on his jump shot.. so the ppl saying hes known to be a guy that drives and takes contact have been mislead

If there's an opening Lamb has no qualms taking it to the basket with that devastating right-to-left crossover putting defenders out of position. Why is it that we expect Lamb to force every single drive when Drummond and Oriakhi never cleared the paint? Can't just expect Lamb to drive if there's no room.

[dagger]

Rodney Stuckey's FGA/FTA ratio from the same conference to the NBA is pretty similar but both his FGAs and FTAs are down from what he did in the Big Sky. Lillard's not going to be getting to the free throw line 10 x a game obviously in the NBA but he could get there 4-5 times just as Stuckey now does. That will still be huge and it's one of the major reasons he's a lottery pick along with his 3 point shooting and work ethic.

Lillard will also make a higher percentage of his free throws. Stuckey is a maddeningly inconsistent FT shooter, especially late in games.

[cdel00]

How does that make sense too you?

Assumption:
Stats are relflective of the competition faced

Fact:
The level of competition in the NBA is vastly superior to the best college teams

Resulting Logic:
Due to the competition of the NBA we must be wary of using any college stats to predict future success.


The stats tell you what happened in the past, the WAY the stats were accumulated in the past can guide future projections.

Got to look at the WAY the guy played then use creativity and imagine that way vs NBA talent. The difference between competition in college is meaningless compared to the NBA.

Can Lamb succeed in the NBA the way he plays. I think yes.
Can Lillard succeed in the NBA the way he plays: I think yes.

Who projects to have greater success in the NBA: I don't know, but my gut says Lillard because of his physical excellence and ability to carry a team.

I don't dismiss stats if they are all from the same level of competition in college.

[Double Helix]

Still haven't heard a good answer for what we do with DeRozan if we draft Lamb.

I know, I know... BPA... but the BPA strategy also assumes you do something about your roster redundancies. The Weems/DeRozan line-up was a huge success... in Vegas.

Honestly, I think you make him available for a trade just to see who's interested. Lamb's a better SG prospect than Derozan at the same age so unless they look really good together somehow in training camp and become sort of a poor man's Vince/T-Mac before the season starts then I think you look into moving Derozan, who's shaping up more like a poor man's Richard Jefferson, and see what you can get.

I like DD as much as the next guy. Perhaps more than most actually. It still wouldn't surprise me if he had a good summer and a good year in this his extension year but we can't wait forever and if the right deal is out there from a GM that also believes he could bust out then we should really consider it.

If you can move DD and Ed + cap filller for a Rudy Gay level talent that's under 27 at the SF spot I think you do it because you could end up with a lineup like this come training camp:

PG - Nash
SG - Lamb
SF - Gay (or a similar mix of talent/mid-twenties age)
PF - Bargnani
C- Valanciunas

6th man - Bayless?

That would grow into the best Raptors team ever seen in Toronto just as Nash is ready to hand off the baton to the next young PG we'll bring in. Is it enough to win the title? Probably not but it's hard to imagine knocking off Miami, Chicago or OKC for the next several years anyway so let's just enjoy the best basketball we can and go as deep as we can.

[Double Helix]

Word is that Raptors GM Bryan Colangelo is extremely high on Jeremy Lamb.

http://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-draft-50

Is this BS? I haven't heard BC praise him much.

Keeping his cards close to his chest.

[cdel00]

Ug phone posting sucks.

DH, love the insight as always.

[fredericklove]

How does that make sense too you?

Assumption:
Stats are relflective of the competition faced

Fact:
The level of competition in the NBA is vastly superior to the best college teams

Resulting Logic:
Due to the competition of the NBA we must be wary of using any college stats to predict future success.


The stats tell you what happened in the past, the WAY the stats were accumulated in the past can guide future projections.

Got to look at the WAY the guy played then use creativity and imagine that way vs NBA talent. The difference between competition in college is meaningless compared to the NBA.

Can Lamb succeed in the NBA the way he plays. I think yes.
Can Lillard succeed in the NBA the way he plays: I think yes.

Who projects to have greater success in the NBA: I don't know, but my gut says Lillard because of his physical excellence and ability to carry a team.

I don't dismiss stats if they are all from the same level of competition in college.

I don't agree statistical productions as the only assessment tool to project their future success or as evidences to prove they are superior to other prospects. You have to look into the skillset they provide against higher competition level. If you think all college competition varied at different level shouldn't be taken into account because all players haven't stepped on the NBA floor so we need to evaluate them according to their statistical output while ignoring their competition level, if that is the case then let me say this. Statistically, some of the projected 2nd rounders from weaker conference year-to-year should deserve lottery spots because some of them averaged higher statistical production than the players that were chosen in top 14 lottery picks. Like I said, you can't ignore competition and jumps to statistical superior advantage. There's reasons to believe scouts look more heavily on the competition level than just the statistics, that's pretty much why they focus more intensely on the tourney. They want to see who can compete at the highest level, it explains why Gordon Hayward shoots up the draft, or Beal this year too. I'm not saying Lillard doesn't have good skillset but you overlooked at his productions based off on the competition level he faced. Alot of the guys he faced aren't exactly high recruits level, its like saying "hey, my stats from the d-league are better than the stats you have in the NBA, I'm better than you".

[fredericklove]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSlEx-m6B6s[/youtube]

I"m just taking it from the elite scouting. The elite scouts rarely put so much emphasize on his motor issue but I do issue concerns whether he's able to consistently be active at the same time on both offensive and defensive end, but the elite scouts issue more concerns about his strength/weight, and his tendency to shoot too much jumpers. I definitely agree with those two concerns even if Lamb was forced to be off-ball shooter role. It'll be great to see Lamb able to build up his strength and see him using both length and gained strength to attack the paint. That will help make him a full package player at the offensive level. And I say Alex Mackensie should throw him and Jonas into boot camp during off-season, they'll for sure come out like a steroid-injected bodies lol.

[Mister Ze]

Lamb vs Rivers:

Lamb benched more, has a higher vertical, lower body fat, and quicker. Rivers has 20lbs on Lamb (200-180).

Statistically Jeremy scored more, had a higher fg% and ft% (81-65). Rivers got to line more and shot better from deep.

On the court: Lamb's critics call him too passive whereas Rivers critics say he's too selfish at times.

Defensively, Rivers has the potential to be a liability whereas Lamb's 7 foot-wingspan will give him the tools to be an excellent perimeter defender.

Physically and statistically Lamb looks better.

[HolyMage110]

does lamb tend to workout again for raptors cause he only did min and got injured..

[xprt]

Imo its no brainer to take Lamb over Rivers. He is better defender and I would say pretty good one. With some weight added he could defend 3's in NBA. He is also better rebounder, more efficient, great range and has higher ceiling.

[dballislife]

how is lamb's handles and face up game, i know rivers has a great one...i dont want lamb to have demar issues, watching lamb in college he just shoots and cuts and straight dribbles...not a lot of breakdown ability which is needed at the guard spots in the league

[Fenris-77]

I'm not a huge Lamb supporter, but I'll take him over Rivers every time. The defensive potential and high efficiency midrange game sell it for me. I think the difference in their three point game is over-stated too. Taken as a package Lamb is the superior prospect,