2012 NBA Draft - Part V

[Dark Faze]

I don't understand why he has to fix his shot in order to be picked this high. Look how Shawn Marion smacked LeBron James around in the finals. Robinson isn't anywhere close to a guarantee to be a 20-10 player. He inflated his offensive stats by being a better athlete than everyone he faced in college. It's not going to happen in the NBA. He lacks offensive skills. His only elite NBA skill is rebounding.

There isn't any evidence that Beal will be an elite offensive talent. I mean everyone's talking about shooting based completely on his form. Let me reiterate his numbers: 44 % from the field and 34% from 3. Wall'esque. Jordan Crawford is blushing.

*Sigh*

What was MKG doing at UK? What's his elite NBA skill?

Intangibles.

Setting good screens, moving well off the ball for cuts to the basket, being able to finish through contact, transition offense, defense, pounding the offensive glass. Great PNR defender. Can guard 1-3. A little 4 too.

Basically he's very good at anything that isn't shooting the basketball.

I guess that isn't sexy enough though.

[Mizerooskie]

I don't understand why he has to fix his shot in order to be picked this high. Look how Shawn Marion smacked LeBron James around in the finals. Robinson isn't anywhere close to a guarantee to be a 20-10 player. He inflated his offensive stats by being a better athlete than everyone he faced in college. It's not going to happen in the NBA. He lacks offensive skills. His only elite NBA skill is rebounding.

There isn't any evidence that Beal will be an elite offensive talent. I mean everyone's talking about shooting based completely on his form. Let me reiterate his numbers: 44 % from the field and 34% from 3. Wall'esque. Jordan Crawford is blushing.

*Sigh*

What was MKG doing at UK? What's his elite NBA skill?

Intangibles.

Setting good screens, moving well off the ball for cuts to the basket, being able to finish through contact, transition offense, defense, pounding the offensive glass. Great PNR defender. Can guard 1-3. A little 4 too.

Basically he's very good at anything that isn't shooting the basketball.

I guess that isn't sexy enough though.

More like, that stuff isn't measurable.

His elite NBA skill is intangibles?

How do Beal and Robinson compare in those areas you listed?

[tontoz]

I don't understand why he has to fix his shot in order to be picked this high. Look how Shawn Marion smacked LeBron James around in the finals. Robinson isn't anywhere close to a guarantee to be a 20-10 player. He inflated his offensive stats by being a better athlete than everyone he faced in college. It's not going to happen in the NBA. He lacks offensive skills. His only elite NBA skill is rebounding.

There isn't any evidence that Beal will be an elite offensive talent. I mean everyone's talking about shooting based completely on his form. Let me reiterate his numbers: 44 % from the field and 34% from 3. Wall'esque. Jordan Crawford is blushing.

*Sigh*

What was MKG doing at UK? What's his elite NBA skill?

Intangibles.

Setting good screens, moving well off the ball for cuts to the basket, being able to finish through contact, transition offense, defense, pounding the offensive glass. Great PNR defender. Can guard 1-3. A little 4 too.

Basically he's very good at anything that isn't shooting the basketball.

I guess that isn't sexy enough though.

So i guess he is a very good playmaker, right? Care to provide some evidence of this?

[Jay81]

i would argue that TROB has a better motor than MKG and is more skilled

[sfam]

I think he'll improve his shot. But does it really matter all that much? LeBron has improved his shot over the years, but shooting jumpers isn't going to win him a ring.

Also, just my opinion, but I believe that MKG has significantly higher upside than both Beal and Robinson.

Yeah, I kinda think it does matter. If his shot never improves his upside is certainly not higher than Beal's or Robinson's. And LeBron never had a broken shooting motion, he just didn't dedicate the time to improve it. LeBron's upside was also LOTS LOTS higher, so I don't see him as an analogy for MKG any more than I do Ray Allen for Beal.

[Dark Faze]

How do Beal and Robinson compare in those areas you listed?

They both aren't on MKG's level as a leader and in terms of hustle. Robinson is closer to Beal however.

My problem with T-Rob and Beal is that they are limited physically. T-Rob is undersized. He plays with heart but it doesn't matter because he's going to be awful defensively. That'd be okay if his offense was pretty good. He's athletic but his offensive skills are limited. Limited post game, can't shoot. He'll live off of PNR and put backs off the offensive glass. No chance in the world at defending a guy like Aldridge or Gasol.

Beal won't guard 1's. Wall is going to do that. He can't guard 3's because he's undersized. He's a good help defender but he's not going to bring all that much on the defensive side of the ball. Great intangibles but he doesn't have much to work with as a combo guard.

MKG will own his position. He can guard 1-3. He'll do well offensively in everything other than shooting. He's 18 and can work on his jumpshot.

[WallTown02]

I think he'll improve his shot. But does it really matter all that much? LeBron has improved his shot over the years, but shooting jumpers isn't going to win him a ring.

Also, just my opinion, but I believe that MKG has significantly higher upside than both Beal and Robinson.

Yeah, I kinda think it does matter. If his shot never improves his upside is certainly not higher than Beal's or Robinson's. And LeBron never had a broken shooting motion, he just didn't dedicate the time to improve it. LeBron's upside was also LOTS LOTS higher, so I don't see him as an analogy for MKG any more than I do Ray Allen for Beal.

Ok, you're right. I didn't really word that well.

I do think he'll improve his shot. What I meant was that even with an improved shot, I don't think that will need to be his bread and butter. I think slashing to the rim, posting up, and playing physical inside, etc will be his game.

[closg00]

^
I don't see how you draw that conclusion. I'd love to see EG and Teddy take Barnes and Robinson to Dukes, then drive them around town in Limos. Make it as public as possible to bait Charlotte into taking one of them or Cleveland into trading....

Then draft Beal and be done with it.

It's just a gut-feeling I have had based-upon Ernie's previous drafts and what we must come away with after this draft ( more offense) This will probably be our last Top-5 pick for a while and our last shot at drafting a top-10 wing player. Both the Cats and Cavs could take Barnes also.

There's been no evidence that Barnes is the mix. And our front office is very transparent. If EG really loved Barnes, we would all know about it by now. I'd be shocked with Barnes as the pick. Barnes may be a good run & jump athlete but he's not remarkably quick, agile or explosive. Let him get a head start and he can gather speed and finish well above the rim, but in tight quarters that athleticism is NOT on display.

It's either MKG or Beal. We'll kick the tires on Robinson but so far it's been pretty clear to where the front office is leaning.

There have been several press accounts that Barnes is in the mix for us including the SI article I linked-to a few pages ago.

[Upper Decker]

I don't understand why he has to fix his shot in order to be picked this high. Look how Shawn Marion smacked LeBron James around in the finals. Robinson isn't anywhere close to a guarantee to be a 20-10 player. He inflated his offensive stats by being a better athlete than everyone he faced in college. It's not going to happen in the NBA. He lacks offensive skills. His only elite NBA skill is rebounding.

There isn't any evidence that Beal will be an elite offensive talent. I mean everyone's talking about shooting based completely on his form. Let me reiterate his numbers: 44 % from the field and 34% from 3. Wall'esque. Jordan Crawford is blushing.

*Sigh*

What was MKG doing at UK? What's his elite NBA skill?

Intangibles.

Setting good screens, moving well off the ball for cuts to the basket, being able to finish through contact, transition offense, defense, pounding the offensive glass. Great PNR defender. Can guard 1-3. A little 4 too.

Basically he's very good at anything that isn't shooting the basketball.

I guess that isn't sexy enough though.

Wait, who are we talking about, Jan Vesely?

Also, he's good at anything that isn't shooting the basketball, consistently beating his defender with dribble penetration in half court-sets, or posting up on offense.

[tontoz]

How do Beal and Robinson compare in those areas you listed?

They both aren't on MKG's level as a leader and in terms of hustle. Robinson is closer to Beal however.

My problem with T-Rob and Beal is that they are limited physically. T-Rob is undersized. He plays with heart but it doesn't matter because he's going to be awful defensively. That'd be okay if his offense was pretty good. He's athletic but his offensive skills are limited. Limited post game, can't shoot. He'll live off of PNR and put backs off the offensive glass. No chance in the world at defending a guy like Aldridge or Gasol.

Beal won't guard 1's. Wall is going to do that. He can't guard 3's because he's undersized. He's a good help defender but he's not going to bring all that much on the defensive side of the ball. Great intangibles but he doesn't have much to work with as a combo guard.

MKG will own his position. He can guard 1-3. He'll do well offensively in everything other than shooting. He's 18 and can work on his jumpshot.

This post might set an internet record for stating opinions as facts.

[Mizerooskie]

How do Beal and Robinson compare in those areas you listed?

They both aren't on MKG's level as a leader and in terms of hustle. Robinson is closer to Beal however.

My problem with T-Rob and Beal is that they are limited physically. T-Rob is undersized. He plays with heart but it doesn't matter because he's going to be awful defensively. That'd be okay if his offense was pretty good. He's athletic but his offensive skills are limited. Limited post game, can't shoot. He'll live off of PNR and put backs off the offensive glass. No chance in the world at defending a guy like Aldridge or Gasol.

Beal won't guard 1's. Wall is going to do that. He can't guard 3's because he's undersized. He's a good help defender but he's not going to bring all that much on the defensive side of the ball. Great intangibles but he doesn't have much to work with as a combo guard.

MKG will own his position. He can guard 1-3. He'll do well offensively in everything other than shooting. He's 18 and can work on his jumpshot.

Yeah, you're just spouting nonsense to favor MKG.

You really think MKG is going to guard NBA 1's with that 11.77 lane agility? There was only one PG at the combine that tested worse than that (Marshall). There were only two SGs that tested worse than that (Barton and Ross).

T-Rob and Beal are no more limited physically than MKG is. You seem to be under the impression that MKG is an elite NBA athlete. He's not. The combine testing showed that.

And again, if MKG is so superior defensively to Beal, why did Beal get more steals/40 and the same amount of blocks/40?

[Dark Faze]

And again, if MKG is so superior defensively to Beal, why did Beal get more steals/40 and the same amount of blocks/40?

Steals and blocks don't necessarily mean you're a great defender. Look at McGee.

And LMAO @ using combine times to predict defensive ability. Look at Sefolosha, Artest, Battier...wtf. You don't have to have elite speed to be a great defender. It's about heart, defensive awareness, etc...

[Mizerooskie]

And again, if MKG is so superior defensively to Beal, why did Beal get more steals/40 and the same amount of blocks/40?

Steals and blocks don't necessarily mean you're a great defender. Look at McGee.

And LMAO @ using combine times to predict defensive ability. Look at Sefolosha, Artest, Battier...wtf. You don't have to have elite speed to be a great defender. It's about heart, defensive awareness, etc...

You used measurements to discredit Beal and Robinson...

And I was using a measure of quickness to show that he lacks the quickness of even college PGs and SGs.

[tontoz]

And again, if MKG is so superior defensively to Beal, why did Beal get more steals/40 and the same amount of blocks/40?

Steals and blocks don't necessarily mean you're a great defender. Look at McGee.

And LMAO @ using combine times to predict defensive ability. Look at Sefolosha, Artest, Battier...wtf. You don't have to have elite speed to be a great defender. It's about heart, defensive awareness, etc...

You used measurements to discredit Beal and Robinson...

And I was using a measure of quickness to show that he lacks the quickness of even college PGs and SGs.

And for the record Battier's lane agility time of 10.95 punks MKGs time of 11.77.

Artest was probably the strongest 3 in the league.

[DCZards]

Intangibles.

Setting good screens, moving well off the ball for cuts to the basket, being able to finish through contact, transition offense, defense, pounding the offensive glass. Great PNR defender. Can guard 1-3. A little 4 too.

Basically he's very good at anything that isn't shooting the basketball.

I guess that isn't sexy enough though.

Don't the Zards already have a player with very similar "intangibles," who also can't shoot, but is four inches taller and probably a better athlete than MKG. I'm talking about Jan Vesely, of course.

EDIT to add: just noticed upperdecker beat me to the Vesely line.

[Mizerooskie]

Intangibles.

Setting good screens, moving well off the ball for cuts to the basket, being able to finish through contact, transition offense, defense, pounding the offensive glass. Great PNR defender. Can guard 1-3. A little 4 too.

Basically he's very good at anything that isn't shooting the basketball.

I guess that isn't sexy enough though.

Don't the Zards already have a player with very similar "intangibles," who also can't shoot, but is four inches taller and probably a better athlete than MKG. I'm talking about Jan Vesely, of course

Vesely didn't start a workout club.

[nate33]

Everybody focuses on his jump shot and fit with Wall. I keep hearing references to Durant, Westbrook and Harden. What about the other team in the finals? The team with arguably the greatest player on the planet right now? If the Heat win the finals this year, it will be because LeBron finally takes over. And LeBron taking over does not involve jumpshots. LeBron is finally learning that he HAS to take it to the rim to win. The Thunder are praying that he’ll shoot jumpers. His success is due to driving and posting up.

Sigh.

While Lebron is taking it to the lane, EVERY OTHER TEAMMATE ON THE FREAKING FLOOR has a good outside shot: Wade, Chalmers, Battier, Bosh, Haslem, Jones, etc. Miami makes sure they have floor spacing so Lebron can drive.

[Upper Decker]

Everybody focuses on his jump shot and fit with Wall. I keep hearing references to Durant, Westbrook and Harden. What about the other team in the finals? The team with arguably the greatest player on the planet right now? If the Heat win the finals this year, it will be because LeBron finally takes over. And LeBron taking over does not involve jumpshots. LeBron is finally learning that he HAS to take it to the rim to win. The Thunder are praying that he’ll shoot jumpers. His success is due to driving and posting up.

Sigh.

While Lebron is taking it to the lane, EVERY OTHER TEAMMATE ON THE FREAKING FLOOR has a good outside shot: Wade, Chalmers, Battier, Bosh, Haslem, Jones, etc. Miami makes sure they have floor spacing so Lebron can drive.

And don't forget Mike Miller. If there's anything we learned about Miller during his time in DC is that is a great shooter...when he's actually willing to take an open shot.

[nate33]

Comparing him to Iggy, G. Wallace, Marion and Artests freshmen college campaigns.

MKG had better FG percentages and offensive ratings than anyone but Shawn Marion, who was a stud (and btw was maybe the second biggest reason why Miami lost to Dallas despite him having no jumpshot whatsoever).

MKG drew SIGNIFICANTLY more free throws than everyone of these guys.

3Point percentage? None of them were good shooters from range but he was a little worse than Marion and Artest, which sounds about right, and significantly better than Iggy and Wallace were.

Shawn Marion had a .7 percent better true shooting percentage. .57.7 Shawn Marion was also a much better rebounder than MKG but MKG was much better than everyone else, also MKG played with Davis and Terrence Jones, who are good rebounders.

So basically he compares favorably to proven all-stars, a guy who won a chip and he's arguably got a lot more fire than any of them possessed.

I'm looking at those comparisons and I'm not that excited. Marion, Iggy and Artest all averaged more points per minute. All but Artest had better offensive ratings. All were better 3-point shooters. All but Iggy had a better eFG%. All but Artest rebounded better. All but Marion passed better. All averaged more steals. All but Iggy averaged more blocks. Basically, MKG ranks last or second to last in every major category.

At best, MKG might be about as good as them, but probably not quite. And those 3 guys are not superstars. They're quality role players who maybe squeaked into one or two all star games.

[Dat2U]

Everybody focuses on his jump shot and fit with Wall. I keep hearing references to Durant, Westbrook and Harden. What about the other team in the finals? The team with arguably the greatest player on the planet right now? If the Heat win the finals this year, it will be because LeBron finally takes over. And LeBron taking over does not involve jumpshots. LeBron is finally learning that he HAS to take it to the rim to win. The Thunder are praying that he’ll shoot jumpers. His success is due to driving and posting up.

Sigh.

While Lebron is taking it to the lane, EVERY OTHER TEAMMATE ON THE FREAKING FLOOR has a good outside shot: Wade, Chalmers, Battier, Bosh, Haslem, Jones, etc. Miami makes sure they have floor spacing so Lebron can drive.

Really? Don't you think your stretching it just a bit? Wade is a slasher first and foremost. Their centers can't shoot a lick. Haslem's 15 ft is no more reliable than Seraphin's. Miller & Jones are bit players.

Surround MKG & Wall with a stretch 4 like Ilyasova and a 3 & D SG and thats quite sufficient with Nene at C. Your making it out like Wall & MKG have absolutely no hope of functioning offensively and I don't think that's true. Plus if Wall or MKG ever develop a somewhat reliable shot (certainly possible), then it's not an issue at all.