Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza

[The Consiglieri]

And another thing--EG has the worst f'ing timing of any GM. Why do this move now? Wait until the last minute and see if you can find anything better. He always settles for crap.

We also pretty much just showed our cards to everyone else at the table in regards to the draft too.

EG's board probably looks like this

Beal
Barnes
MKG

He's an idiot.

Whats funny is that a month after the lottery i find myself wishing we'd gotten reamed by the lottery so that Idiot MJ and/Cleveland could have insured Barnes was gone before our pick. While I dont think it's a lock, thinking its possible we might be moronic enough to take a non-entity like him at 3 is inconceivable and would truly be the last nail in the coffin for me. At said point, I'd simply look at box scores, praying for losses every day, and hoping the team is so bad, everyone is run out of town including the idiot owner.

[fugop]

I really liked the Nene trade. I don't like this one.

First, the positives. Okafor seems to be a really smart guy -- he was an Academic All American, and graduated with a degree in finance from UConn after three years. There aren't questions about his work ethic or demeanor. I've always liked him, and want to see him succeed. I think he could be a decent front office person or coach.

Okafor has steadily improved his jumpshot:

2011-2012: 66% of his attempts were jumpshots, he shot 43.3%.
2010-2011: 32% of his attempts were jumpshots, he shot 39.8%.
2009-2010: 30% of his attempts were jumpshots, he shot 33.5%

http://www.82games.com/1112/11NOH21.HTM

Unfortunately, almost all of that improvement came from between 3-9 feet, where Okafor shot >50% on 2.7fga/g. Not sure how much that helps with spacing. There is at least a chance that Okafor's later career will parallel Kurt Thomas.

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Emeka%20Okafor
http://bkref.com/tiny/dGZyk

Okafor and Nene can commiserate about their back problems. The CIA's brain transfer program may be able to experiment with Okafor and Blatche.

Ariza had a couple of good playoff series with Los Angeles.


Now, the bad. I wouldn't really want these guys on the roster if they used no cap room -- if they were 0$.

The biggest positive of the Nene trade was the impact it had on team culture and chemistry. It got rid of some of the players who may have been good guys but didn't maintain requisite levels of professionalism. We brought in Nene, who was very well suited to mentor our young bigs and complement our young guards.

I don't see how this trade does anything but hurt chemistry. I realize that I'm reaching, empathizing too much with players who are generationally alien to me. But I would be pissed were I Nene, I would be pissed were I Vesely, I would be pissed were I either of the Singletons, I would be pissed were I Seraphin, and I would be confused were I John Wall.

All of the bigs have to be irritated that we just committed a fair amount of money to a guy who duplicates without improving our current abilities. We lack scoring in the front court, and we brought in a guy who doesn't score with volume or remarkable efficiency. Okafor is a garbage man. His rebounding is decent, but we were not a bad rebounding team post trade.

Wall has to be confused. He must realize that we need shooters, and we just committed to a wing and a big with no shot. Spacing is going to be comical this year. At least Wall should get some good picks -- he'll be able to get by his man regularly, but will run into three guys in the paint, cheating off their marks.

The only way this makes sense is if the plan is really to flip one of Okafor or Nene. We should be able to get decent value for either, but flipping guys who are the most mature "leaders" on the team doesn't seem good for chemistry.

Oh well. I admit to harboring a fondness for Dale and Antonio Davis, for Oakley and Anthony Mason. I wish that rosters like that could work in the modern NBA. But I don't think they can, in the era of flopping, no-hand checking, stretch fours, and defensive specialists at the 5. If we were really committed to trying out a throwback strategy, I'd be secretly (and shamefully) tickled at the thought of a "tough" Wizards team. But we're obviously not actually committed to any long term strategy, and a bruising frontline certainly doesn't complement Wall.

In summary: meh.

[Jay81]

this whole trade says one think: the Franchise stink and not even Ted thought he could get anybody decent to come here as a FA.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I haven't read the article yet, but Hollinger's tweet got a sad laugh out of me:

Hollinger takes a sadistic delight in pouring salt all over Wiz fans' wounds. I'd say he hates the Wizards, but it's not really hate. More like pure condescension. Not that it isn't warranted, most of the time.

I dont think it's that so much as delighting in being able to rip to pieces an inexplicably stupid F.O. that never makes the right decision on anything in terms of team building, and could be better run by a computer programmed by Hollinger, and run by Mark Zuckerberg. Hell you wouldn't even need mark, just that desk ornament bird that homer used to run the nuke plant on the simpsons, pecking on the keyboard to help with trades.

Anything would be better than this merde.

You can't blame him, he's just constantly amused that in a multi-billion dollar industry, some teams could still be run this moronically from top to bottom. It's a reminder for the mpteenth time, that some of the 1% were basically carried there entirely by others, and have no idea of the luck that got them to their presitigious positions in spite of themselves.

Consiglieri, that was the premise of what I thought might make a decent motion picture script.

Have a professional team managed by either a computer or message board polls. Have a money ball approach to player acquisitions and no GM getting swindled on the phone, just have a proxy that acts as executor of whatever the program/polls decide.

Couldn't do worse than with Ernie at the helm.

[Mr Dew]

Serious question, was EG your GM when the Wiz traded #5 (Rubio) to the Wolves for Foye + Miller?

Thank you by the way.

[Jay81]

Serious question, was EG your GM when the Wiz traded #5 (Rubio) to the Wolves for Foye + Miller?

Thank you by the way.

EG was the GM for every lousy thing this org has done since 2003.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

^^

That camera system is great. I read about it a couple years ago in Wired magazine. Basically it tracks everyone's position on the court at all times. So if you're getting the benefit of wide open jumpers with no one within 10ft of you (cough danny green cough), the camera system knows that. If you're not hustling, boxing guys out, closing out on shooters, etc the system is built to report that kind of stuff.

I wonder if Ariza got better looks when Gasol and Bynum were his frontcourt instead of David West and Emeka Okafor?

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

I really don't see why so many of you think this trade is bad. It’s not a slam dunk, but to me it’s in the solid-to-good range of trades.

We gain veteran players who have both ability and experience –and not the Oberto, Peeler, or Songalia type of veteran experience were used to getting- as well as some added depth that will almost certainly help in times of injuries and help contribute for a probably playoff run.

We didn’t give up any prospects or young talent (people who are whining about some 46th pick in the draft are the type of folk who are impossible to make happy) and we get rid of worthless Rashard Lewis who could have easily expired and snagged us very little.

Okay, so we take a cap hit in free agency for next year. But let me ask, who would you suggest we spend that cap space on in summer 2013? Let’s go a bit further and say we have a target out there, is there even the slightest hint that Player X would accept an offer from us if we are a miserable team for yet another year? Other than us getting Dwight Howard, who else is out there that really blows your mind in terms of free agency? Too many huge question marks to evaluate this trade strictly off of lost cap space. The cherry on tops is the year after next season we have to beautiful expiring contracts in Ariza and Okafor; we set ourselves up with future assets.

With this trade we still have a great, young core that is growing and will only benefit from further playing time and a good mix of veteran guidance. Wall, #3 pick (probably Beal), Vesely, Seraphin, Booker, Crawford, Singleton, Mack, and the 32nd make for a solid young core, add Nene, Oak, Ariza and some combination of Mason, Evans, Singleton (who looks pretty much doubtful to be resigned at this point) and Martin, and that makes for a good team.

Wall/32nd pick/Mack
Beal/Crawford/Mason
Ariza/Singleton/Martin
Nene/Booker/Blatche
Seraphin or Okafor/Vesely

I’m happy with that team for at least next year and I think many of you will warm to this as time continues.

[jivelikenice]

this whole trade says one think: the Franchise stink and not even Ted thought he could get anybody decent to come here as a FA.

I agree that it is an indication that we are not a destination and the only way we could sign a FA would be to overpay someone. But, its also a slim FA class in terms of top tier FAs and a majority of them are restricted, so even if you could get them to agree at a fair price, their team could match. Batum may very well be open to signing here but Portland can and would match any reasonable offer.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Serious question, was EG your GM when the Wiz traded #5 (Rubio) to the Wolves for Foye + Miller?

Thank you by the way.

EG is the GM that just keeps giving to other teams. He gave Denver the #18 that they used for Ty Lawson. He is arguably as good as John Wall at PG, just like Ricky Rubio.

(Ernie had this option in 2008)

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/wizardsi ... rkout.html

Ty Lawson's workout with the Wizards was cut short this morning when he tweaked his left ankle. Lawson, who is an early entry candidate out of North Carolina, is projected as a possible late first round pick.

Lawson, who has already worked out for Cleveland and Indiana and plans on visiting Denver and either Sacramento or Portland, said he didn't think the injury was serious.

The Wizards, who hold the 18th and 47th picks in the June 26 draft, will continue to workout prospects this week and into next week.

[BruceO]

Question what makes people here think emeka will be too banged up to play? The impression I got was as though he had missed many games but when I look at his history he has played 82 games more than a few times recently. This last season I am discounting because it seems like the hornets shut he and Kaman down intentionally to avoid injury to those players so they can trade him and tank correctly.

Also wonder about ariza and whether the numbers are a function of his offense. Prototypically he seems like an ideal defensive candidate on the wing, like batter and ariza he can play the two and three and has the length and speed to defend. Oth positions while providing a decent scoring punch enough to not be a liability on the floor. He has a good assist to turnover ratio. That surprised me as well and is normally a good indicator of basketball iq.i think he can work in the right role. Also let me ask do you think thabo sefolosha is a better player than ariza or are they the same player?

Yes we won't be players in fre agency but who was going to come at a decent price? If anything we are doing good by getting formally high rated players teams can no longer keep due to their situation in the middle of their contracts so we are not signing them long term or trying to convince them to please come here. New Orleans winning the lottery and starting afresh hasno longer any use for those players whether they are good or to. On the year they both played with a competent pg they made playoffs. Combine that if we get depth and the right pieces the players will be in their right roles which will be vital to their success or the success of any player.

We are not free agent players but if we could get emeka and ariza for a useless player in rashard I'm sure we can get for emeka when he is expiring which is just next year. Also this doesn't hurt seraphins development, intact it helps them to learn f rom these vets. When you look at playoff rotations most teams roll with a out three big men so it can be nene, seraphins and emeka for us with possible contributions from booker and vessely. Then teams used three guard rotation mostly, four at other times but three will contribute significantly in the playoffs, for us that can be wall, beal with ariza and Crawford coming in as the next guards. Ariza has the ability to play the two or three so we can still bring in mkg or beal and get a shooter in the early second round in Jenkins or doron lamb.

Overall with the addition of advanced statistics and a better awareness of the players from the front office I think this deal is less lopsided than people think. First I will wait to see how healthy emeka is then judge from what happens on the floor. I would also see what needs to be added to make us a contender. I think as we stand with a top pick we can match up pretty well against playoff teams. Our big men can become a real source of strength especially in this east. I don't see any bigs that can victimize them if healthy.

[dobrojim]

I don't see how this trade does anything but hurt chemistry. I realize that I'm reaching, empathizing too much with players who are generationally alien to me. But I would be pissed were I Nene, I would be pissed were I Vesely, I would be pissed were I either of the Singletons, I would be pissed were I Seraphin, and I would be confused were I John Wall.

[snip]

In summary: meh.

at the end of the day, I'm kinda meh on the trade too but I disagree with you
that our current players should somehow get bent out of place because we
dared to bring in someone at their position. If they feel that entitled to
what they have, and I don't necessarily buy that they do, then how motivated
should we expect them to be?

I don't have great hopes that this will happen but if Okafor did get flipped
for Martin, then this becomes a ridiculously good trade.

[jivelikenice]

I really don't see why so many of you think this trade is bad. It’s not a slam dunk, but to me it’s in the solid-to-good range of trades.

A lot of folks here want to win, but their suggestions seem to revolve around a never ending rebuild. We didn't lose any young assets; we gained veteran depth at positions of need; and we kept still have our #3 overall pick and a high 2nd roudn selection, yet people are upset really because Ernie did the trade.

The 10th pick was never going to be given away by the Hornets.
Rudy Gay isn't there to be had for a salary dump unless we were to throw in the 3rd pick
Batum and Gordon could have been had but for max type of contracts
Ilyasova and Anderson IMO are not worth $8-$10 mm per on long-term deals
If we amnesty Blatche, we still have enough money for a Danny Green type of FA

This trade improves us. Playing time for our core young players like Wall, Seraphin, the 3rd pick, and Vesely to a lesser extent is still there. This trade also gives us flexibility to deal other young assets (i.e. Booker) for wing help.

For those upset we can't tak on salary dumps...I'm sorry, but there's been a lot of turnover here. This roster needs some stability and this trade gives us a chance to have a stable roster for 2 yrs with a mix of young players with upside and veteran leaders....

[tontoz]

A lot of folks here want to win, but their suggestions seem to revolve around a never ending rebuild. We didn't lose any young assets; we gained veteran depth at positions of need; and we kept still have our #3 overall pick and a high 2nd roudn selection, yet people are upset really because Ernie did the trade.

No, people are upset because the path to success does not include grossly overpaying for mediocre talent, especially when that talent doesn't even address the biggest weakness on the team.

[jivelikenice]

CCJ, I don't think we had the 18th pick the yr of the Miller/Foye trade. I believe Lawson pulled out of the draft that yr and re-entered the following yr. The 18th pick was used on Javale.

[jivelikenice]

A lot of folks here want to win, but their suggestions seem to revolve around a never ending rebuild. We didn't lose any young assets; we gained veteran depth at positions of need; and we kept still have our #3 overall pick and a high 2nd roudn selection, yet people are upset really because Ernie did the trade.

No, people are upset because the path to success does not include grossly overpaying for mediocre talent, especially when that talent doesn't even address the biggest weakness on the team.

So what would have been your suggestion?

And in regards to overpaying, FA is designed for just that. Did you really think we'd get a bargain in a market where Alonzo Gee is rumored to be getting a 4 yr/ $16 MM deal?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I don't see how this trade does anything but hurt chemistry. I realize that I'm reaching, empathizing too much with players who are generationally alien to me. But I would be pissed were I Nene, I would be pissed were I Vesely, I would be pissed were I either of the Singletons, I would be pissed were I Seraphin, and I would be confused were I John Wall.

[snip]

In summary: meh.

at the end of the day, I'm kinda meh on the trade too but I disagree with you
that our current players should somehow get bent out of place because we
dared to bring in someone at their position. If they feel that entitled to
what they have, and I don't necessarily buy that they do, then how motivated
should we expect them to be?

I don't have great hopes that this will happen but if Okafor did get flipped
for Martin, then this becomes a ridiculously good trade.

I totally agree with fugop.

Opportunity is all people have a right to ask for. There are 48 minutes in an NBA game. Opportunity at PF and C comes down to 96 minutes. You can only slice a pie up so many ways before someone is not happy with their share. It works the same with minutes. Also, if you've ever been in the military or management you know organizational charts are structured with span of control in mind. Just like there is only one non-commissioned officer in charge (NCOIC) or one officer in charge (OIC) in military groups it is for a reason. It works best that way. You can't have too many chiefs or leaders barking instructions. Likewise, you can't have too many methodologies or too much advice coming from too many places.

Worse, have you ever been a teacher and had to team teach? Have you ever had to share a presentation with someone of your same status, but maybe someone you didn't know too well? Okafor and Nene are now the team leaders. If one brings passion, energy, and dynamism the other is going to have to bring something just to get respect. Otherwise, he becomes another Rashard Lewis. An old guy who can't play who is just taking up space on the roster.

Those young guys had reason for optimism before this deal. Now, they have reason to look over their shoulders. Things probably won't be "happy happy", "joy joy" for the Wizards this year. This was a chemistry-killer IF Okafor and Ariza don't come in and earn immediate respect. Guys like Cartier Martin and James Singleton bring hunger and effort. Guys like Ariza and Okafor have only professional pride to play for.

jim, this deal has the potential to get Wittman fired, and another coach brought in who can grab mediocrity. EG will keep his job. Ted Leonsis will see to it.

Like I said some 30 pages ago, count me as a fair-weather fan. If this backfires I am going to have to do my BEST to drop this team.

[dobrojim]

CCJ, I don't think we had the 18th pick the yr of the Miller/Foye trade. I believe Lawson pulled out of the draft that yr and re-entered the following yr. The 18th pick was used on Javale.

Yeah it was more like a situation now with the 10th pick. People thought
EG didn't bargain hard enough.

[Jay81]

its only 2 years of paying Okafor and Ariza.....maybe when we finally clear these guys.. a real player who is a free agent would be ready to take us seriously. And more importantly, we will have a real GM who really knows how to use cap space.

In the meantime, pray that Okafor fails his physical.

[jivelikenice]

I'm stunned that people are worried about the opportunity of young guys to play. The core young guys like Seraphin/ Wall/ the upcoming pick will play. I could care less if Singleton and Crawford see the court and frankly, Vesely has to earn anything more than 10-15 minutes a game at this point. The problem last yr and for the last 5 yrs with our young players has been a sense of entitlement, yet people seem to be advocating for an environment that would allow for that. Talk about jumping to both sides of the fence here...