Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza

[Jay81]

this one:

http://www.theprobasketballtalk.com/201 ... stern.html

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I will give you some good examples. If I want somebody to rebound better than Emeka I can sign Drew Gordon at #32. A better perimeter big at 32 would be Draymond Green. A big body? Festus Ezeli is not a great player but he's big. For 473K these guys can give me things Emeka cannot. Miles Plumlee might rebound just as well. Good end of the bench guy to add. James Singleton already had the respect of the young guys and the coaching staff. He can guard Josh Smith better than Emeka. He can guar Ryan Anderson better than Emeka. He can match up with players like Thaddeus Young better. The Wizards face these players more than they face Dirk.
Specific enough, DCZ?

Sorry, ccj, you can't rattle off the names of college kids and tell me that they are going to be better than Okafor when they have yet to play a minute of NBA ball. I ain't buying it.

You get no argument from me about Singleton...other than I believe that comparing the two is comparing apples and oranges because their games are so very different. Emeka is an insider baller, as much of as C as a PF, while Singleton is more perimeter-oriented, as much of a SF as a PF.

CCJ, why does Emeka take Singleton out of the equation? I don't understand....And I seem to recall you saying McGee was not going to get $10 MM per (we had a friendly wager on it). Now you're saying that you said he was going to get that all along? And McGee til this day isn't worth $10MM per. Sorry, but I'm not going to get carried away based on one 7 game series where he averaged 8.6/9.6/3 and shot 43% from the floor. Really, he had two good games, was average in another, and was trash in the rest. And he doesn't get credit for getting to the playoffs....They were already a playoff team.

Yes, he is after the playoffs. I think I said I thought he would get less than 9.5, right? I said he would sign with Denver for a discount. I doubt that now.

Didn't DeAndre Jordan get $43M?

jivelikenice, it is still not a done deal but McGee will probably get 10M. Regardless, I would rather have a young guy making 10M than an older player making 14M. My solution was offer McGee 8.5M and play him with Seraphin. That was even when I had no idea how well Seraphin could score. I mentioned play McGee with Seraphin when Seraphin wasn't playing at all.

In retrospect, the team is way better with Nene, and it looks like McGee will get more than I thought.

About McGee's playoffs:

Playoff PER: 20.3 (Well above average)

Playoff WS/48: 0.159 (Well above average)

His averages of 8.6/9.6/3.1 were over 26 minutes only.

McGee's playoffs against Bynum, Gasol, and the Lakers translate to 11.9 points, 13.3 rebounds, 4.3 blocks per 36 minutes.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... eja01.html

if you think those numbers are not that impressive, nerd numbers shows McGee was just less effective than Ty Lawson and more effective than Kenneth Faried against the Lakers. McGee added points to the Nuggets in a measurement that is much more accurate than +/-.

http://www.nerdnumbers.com/splits?team= ... F23%2F2012

People who want to see the worst pick a bad play by McGee and they harp on that. I see a series go 7 games and that Javale rebounded, blocked shots, and helped keep Denver in games. They were LOST with Koufus starting and Mozgov could do NOTHING with Bynum. Bynum destroyed Javale, too, a couple games. Yet, McGee totally frustrated Bynum, who called Javale's hook shot "unstoppable". McGee is called trash by some Wizard fans and the same fans are going to be watching this guy in the playoffs getting better for years and years to come. Mark my words: The Nene trade won't look so good in a couple years. At best it is a win for the Wizards and a bigger win for the Nuggets IMO.

When the deal first went down some of you laughed at Denver. To say McGee had a couple good playoff games is really typical of McGee haters.

[The Consiglieri]

Honestly at the end of the day, do we or should we care that we helped NOLA or did them a huge favor? Neither the Wizards or the Hornets are going to win an NBA Championship within the next 5-10 years. It's not like this trade propelled the Hornets to top 5 in the NBA.

That's not the point, the point is that we took on their two poison pills, two massive, crippling issues that were afflictions for their team, and they gave us NOTHING for it. NOTHING.

Oh sure, you can say, yes we did, we got a mediocre big, and a sub mediocre 3, but that's not something, that's a net negative, their contracts and presence are a sag on the team, not an asset, a massive net negative.

If you take on someone's poison pill you're supposed to get something for you trouble. All we got was the knowledge that we didnt pay Rashard Lewis for not playing for us. In other words, nothing of value, just philosophical peace of mind for cheap skates, and a net negative for the youth movement and development of our kids and massive disruption of team chemistry.


Pure idiocy.

I don't agree with any of this. They were only poison pills for NO because of there situation. If they don't land the #1 pick, they don't make this trade. If they don't trade Paul for Gordon, they don't make this trade. This isn't a situation where we took on another teams garbage. This is similar to us getting Hinrich two years ago. The Bulls didn't want to get rid of Kirk but because they wanted to be players for Lebron, they had to shed salary. It had nothing to do with him being a bad player. Same is the case here.

Ummm, no, the Hornets want to rebuild their team, and Okafor, and Areza represent massive dead weights on their cap space hindering their development, and their ability to rebuild with upside, and youth and other potential assets. We took the parachute drag off their team, and now they're flying down the road past us, while we slowly drift over to the shoulder, a la Dustin Hoffman in the Graduate.

[DMVman1981]

I like the idea of starting Okafor at C and then Nene at PF. We would have a solid post and rim defender with Okafor......and the offensive game of Nene. Nene can score back to the basket and hit the face up jumper......the only thing we ask of Okafor is defend and rebound. This would also give us decent size at the combo of C and PF position in our starting lineup.

Bring Seraphin off the bench at the C position (he needs 20 min a night) and then Vesely/Booker fight it out for minutes at PF. Depending on who we are playing both Vesely and Booker could get minutes as they both have unique skills sets.

Ariza will then take the role of our wing defender in the starting line up.....think of him like Sefolosha and being able to hit a jump shot.

The only thing missing from the starting line up would be our go to scoring threat from the outside.

Welcome Beal to the team.

I also like Jeremy Lamb in a trade back situation.

[The Consiglieri]

its easy to say buy out Lewis unless you are the actual owner. How many of you guys would pay 14 million dollars and get nothing in return. Its a horrible trade but put yourself in the owners shoes. 14 million dollars!

So because you don't want to pay $14 mil to make someone go away, you pay $42 mil instead over two years instead?

What kind of math is that?

Yeah, and remember they saved a pile of money by trading for Lewis. Jay's not the only one who's used that logic today, so I feel like the Robot on Lost in Space saying "Does not compute! Does not compute! Danger Will Robinson!"

Flail your arms around in circles, I can take a pic, and we'll have the Boulez coat of arms.

[Induveca]

A team looking to dump salary is much more likely to want cap space as opposed to an expirer.

A bird in hand is worth two in the bush, but a turd in hand isn't.

Problem is these amazing trades you're predicting could "Arise" suddenly would require an intelligent GM, luck, and a very real possibility of another 18-22 win season for our supposed franchise player.

Risk / Reward

Reward is having some leadership, and getting some wins under our young guys belts. It helps in that regard. It also helps salvage some season ticket holders, and the actual value of the franchise before a whole generation writes them off.

Complete overreaction here. We were never getting Howard, Harden or any top level player......

Wow, it is hard to get so much nonsense into one post.

First of all what "amazing trades" did I propose, and how would an 18-22 win season facilitate them? And are you really saying that this is an 18-22 win team without this deal? They just won 20 in a 66 game season.

Do you think that people will buy tickets because of Okafor/Ariza? Wow. And how are these two qualify to be leaders? Their "leadership" didn't seem to do much for the Hornets. Playing poorly on a bad team doesn't qualify someone as a leader.

And where did i mention Howard or Harden?

Believe it or not, every word in my post wasn't directed towards you.....if I had only changed the word "you're" to "everyone is".....sigh. Alas, I shall survive.

I was referencing the Howard and Harden dream trade/free agent scenarios which have popped up around the board for much of the past 5 or 6 months......it's been a common theme (albeit at different times). You don't get players like that on a perennial loser.

I differ in opinion with the majority here, plain and simple.

Most hate the trade
I'm ambivalent, with a hint of hope.

No magical device will make them return from whence they came. Come October, everyone will cheer for them to succeed just like myself.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I will give you some good examples. If I want somebody to rebound better than Emeka I can sign Drew Gordon at #32. A better perimeter big at 32 would be Draymond Green. A big body? Festus Ezeli is not a great player but he's big. For 473K these guys can give me things Emeka cannot. Miles Plumlee might rebound just as well. Good end of the bench guy to add. James Singleton already had the respect of the young guys and the coaching staff. He can guard Josh Smith better than Emeka. He can guar Ryan Anderson better than Emeka. He can match up with players like Thaddeus Young better. The Wizards face these players more than they face Dirk.
Specific enough, DCZ?

Sorry, ccj, you can't rattle off the names of college kids and tell me that they are going to be better than Okafor when they have yet to play a minute of NBA ball. I ain't buying it.

You get no argument from me about Singleton...other than I believe that comparing the two is comparing apples and oranges because their games are so very different. Emeka is an insider baller, as much of as C as a PF, while Singleton is more perimeter-oriented, as much of a SF as a PF.

And the fact that Singleton is as much of a SF as a PF would make me think he would be re-signed come July 1st.

Now, if he is I really have to see where his minutes come from. James Singleton is already on record saying he preferred playing abroad and having his game improve rather than being stuck deep on an NBA teams roster and a bench player.

[truwizfan4evr]

Maybe we going to trade some players for another first round pick?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I've been kind of blown away -- like most of us, I guess -- by this idiotic trade.

Someone said that Okafor helps w/ rebounding. His rebounding rate has gone down season after season. Last year every 40 minutes it was at 10.9. James Singleton? 12.4. And if it's been going steadily down, please tell me: don't you think that might continue in his 30s?

Emeka's TS% .53. James Singleton? .60

Ok, there a couple of non-improvements.

Ariza is an upgrade over Chris Singleton at the 3. And let me tell you that was hard, finding someone a step up from Chris's rookie year while keeping the salary under $8m.

What a joke. This team is cooked. Again. Why do we stay fans?

What needs to happen if the Wizards do not compete well this season is for fans to organize and to petition against this owner and his GM for overall ineptitude. Fans need to boycott if this team turns stinky. In theory, these moves wrest mediocrity, but I think in practice this team won't have good chemistry and guys will start to bicker.

What they added was salary but not talent. They increased the payroll but as far as quality depth goes, how did the rotation improve? The advanced statistical/visual methods better be right. If not, they really screwed up this time. If past performance is the best indicator of future performance both Ariza and Okafor are regressing while being well compensated. They aren't winning a thing. Just like Randy Foye and Mike Miller, coming from Minnesota.

We stay fans because we are loyal and that is just the nature of everyone here.

As Cramer said a ways back, being a Wizard fan is hard work.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Sorry for spamming this thread. I am done. Enough about this trade. Back to the real world and the gym. We will see. I am going to do myself a favor and not revisit this thread for 24-36 hours or more.

[JonathanJoseph]

As I continue to digest the trade (and I'm still of the mindset that neither Okafor nor Ariza add much beyond what we've got at huge salaries), I think there are two things that really bother me.

1) This was a massive overreaction to the youth movement. They spent 2+ seasons giving Crawford, Booker, Vesely, Seraphin, Singleton etc minutes to develop them and it seemed like that was just starting to pay off. I fully supported the move to acquire some veteran balance and Nene's play and presence brought a new maturity and attitude to the locker room but that seemed to be enough. There were ways to bring in rotation veterans at < $20M/year.

2) The language that Ted/EG use are the language of losers. While I am ok with using trades rather than free agency to take on smaller salary commitments (over time), I don't like how open they are in saying "well we don't think anyone would have voluntarily taken our money." Contrast that to the new Warriors owners who were aggressive in trying to trade for Dwight Howard even though he said he wouldn't sign an extension. The Warriors owners message was "that's ok, we think you are going to love it here and we're going to win big and we'd love the opportunity to change your mind.". The fact that free agents have such a low opinion of DC is exactly why Grunfeld should have been fired, not anything to do with his basketball moves.

[Zonkerbl]

So lemme see if I understand this move. Option 1 was to buy out Lewis and have $10 mil or so to sign a free agent. Now, the fact is, all the restricted free agents who are any good will get signed, the unrestricted free agents either suck or are asking more than they are worth. So EG has decided that whenever possible he should avoid the free agent market and fill in cap space through trades.

I get that logic.

Now you've traded Lewis away for a good defensive rebounder and defender, and yet another mediocre SF.

So given one of the greatest needs on the team is defensive rebounding, you've addressed that.

So I guess the plan is to let Nene and Okafor start, with Seraphin probably backing up at C, and Booker (whose career may end soon due to plantar fasciitis, you never know) and Ves fighting for backup PF minutes. And with injuries and such everyone will get their minutes. Plus I can see Seraphin winning the starter position over Okafor if he sucks, kind of sad to be paying that much for a backup C. Still, you know for certain that Lewis is done, while Okafor still may have some quality NBA minutes left in him, and it's only a two year contract.

At SF you have Ariza and Singleton, I guess. That does not fill me with confidence. MKG would be a big upgrade there.

And at SG you're still stuck with Crawford as your starter. Beal will be a big upgrade there, although I think the difference between Beal and Crawford is not as great as the difference between MKG and Ariza/Singleton.

I mean, EG did address a serious need - defensive rebounding. Add MKG or Beal and this team has a chance, with only one truly sucky starter now. Still nowhere close to a championship caliber roster though. Starting to look like Atlanta and Phillie.

I'll be really surprised if EG then selects Trob. Then this trade makes no sense at all.

[JonathanJoseph]

I'll also note that this trade would make a lot more sense if Beal is the pick AND there's another move in the works.

[Dat2U]

We could have addressed rebounding AND the SF position by simply drafting MKG. He's going to rebound like a monster at the SF position and my guess is he'll step in and outperform Trevor Ariza from day one.

And that would not have cost $42 million dollars.

[closg00]

this one:

http://www.theprobasketballtalk.com/201 ... stern.html

Funny, he didn't post this article.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1230 ... nets-trade

[TGW]

We could have addressed rebounding AND the SF position by simly drafting MKG. He's going to rebound like a monster at the SF position and my guess is he'll step in and outperform Trevor Ariza from day one.

And that would not have cost $42 million dollars.

Thank you.

[Dat2U]

Here's what I want to know. What changed? What happened to the patient rebuild? You can legitimize the Nene trade as a stand alone move, but tying up $70 million in 3 veteran players (two of which are merely serviceable) was not the plan that Leonsis had promised we'd take.

I guess the OKC plan has been trashed and Ernie has sold Teddy on his own plan.

[sfam]

What if this trade was prompted by Wall? Wall might have made it clear that they needed to get some vet players surrounding him. Might this have been EG's answer?

[Illuminaire]

Shouldn't matter, Sfam. Wall's job is to play basketball and run the team on the court. EG's is to provide the vision necessary to put together a championship contending team.

Star players do routinely make demands on their franchises, but very, very few *good* franchises act on those demands.

[WizarDynasty]

I have been for a long time and through all this blather, the most important question regarding the future of the franchise is, what is the plan to obtain and true superstar. if you have no plan on obtiaining a superstar or potential superstar, and wall is no where close to being a superstar just a quick point guard with average passing skills, ...again, if you have no plan of obtaining a superstar---- YOu absolutely SUCK as a pretend realgm for the wizards. The job of the GM is to lead his team to a championship and hopefully a dynasty. I have seen no visions of how to get the wizards to championship level and the supremely disappointed at the lack of farsighted visions of "established" posters here on how to get the wizards to championship level. I challenge you to create a vision for us to get a superstar or potential superstar.
Without a superstar, no championship---no chance for championship means pathetic leadership and fan base. Realgm for the wizards is about getting us to place we haven't been before and it takes a vision and execution of that vision and a lil luck.