Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Austin Rivers (NOH)

[HolyMage110]

i've always had a heart for rivers.

[MEDIC]

It's not ideal but we lost ideal when that coin toss flipped the other way.

I guess that's the thing that irks me about picking Rivers. I like the kid and all, but all of this tanking & all we come away with is a replacement for Jerryd Bayless?

That's disheartening.

[ballislife]

think about what type of player rivers can be if hes mentored by steve nash. he would absorb everyhing like a sponge.

That's something i'd be intrigued to watch. I think he'd be able to develop his playmaking behind a guy like Nash for a couple years... could do wonders for him, because we all know he can score and he knows he can score. The best thing about Rivers is that he wants to be great, he wants to keep working and keep improving... he'll be a great student of the game, and we know there's no better teacher than Mr. Nash. Another point, Doc will not accept his son slacking off, that's why he wants him to be coached by Casey - he knows there won't be any nonsense tolerated.

[Double Helix]

It's not ideal but we lost ideal when that coin toss flipped the other way.

I guess that's the thing that irks me about picking Rivers. I like the kid and all, but all of this tanking & all we come away with is a replacement for Jerryd Bayless?

That's disheartening.

If Beal is a top 3 prospect that teams tanked even harder than us for and a SG with starting potential who's to say Rivers can't make the transition to a full time 2 as well? As I posted above... they do share some similarities numerically and they have similar height/wingspans/verts. We all know Rivers MUCH better off the bounce that Beal though.

Many have become used to looking at Barnes, Lamb, Sullinger, Lillard's stats despite the fact that they're older than both Beal and Rivers. People seem to forget that with the exception of superfreshmen like Mello, Durant, etc... the numbers Rivers put up are actually pretty interesting for a freshmen. He has a lot to prove but what if he makes a massive jump forward? It happens all the time. It's a big wakeup call stepping into college and everybody agrees his game is better suited to the pros.

[MainEvent]

I dont think we need another player who is only a scorer. People get on Bargnani and Demar all the time about this but now we want to add another player like that? reminds me of a bayless/barbosa

Its 2 bad he doesn't use his handle and ability to break his man down off the bounce to create for teammates

[RaptorReloaded]

It's not ideal but we lost ideal when that coin toss flipped the other way.

I guess that's the thing that irks me about picking Rivers. I like the kid and all, but all of this tanking & all we come away with is a replacement for Jerryd Bayless?

That's disheartening.

I don't get the Bayless comparison besides the fact they're both light skinned. Rivers is bigger, faster but not as explosive. Bayless plays like a little bulldog while Rivers is slippery.

[HolyMage110]

think about what type of player rivers can be if hes mentored by steve nash. he would absorb everyhing like a sponge.

That's something i'd be intrigued to watch. I think he'd be able to develop his playmaking behind a guy like Nash for a couple years... could do wonders for him, because we all know he can score and he knows he can score. The best thing about Rivers is that he wants to be great, he wants to keep working and keep improving... he'll be a great student of the game, and we know there's no better teacher than Mr. Nash. Another point, Doc will not accept his son slacking off, that's why he wants him to be coached by Casey - he knows there won't be any nonsense tolerated.

Spot on. If we were to draft rivers,waiters, or lamb and we do happen to get steve nash in the offseason, rivers will be a better player in the years to come. He knows if he's coached by casey, you gotta earn your minutes, you not given minutes by your status. Just like how aaron gray came out of nowhere and earned a spot in the starting line up and as well as alan anderson. Man, coach casey with steve nash both helping out rivers can be something. Would be happy if we selected rivers.

[MainEvent]

It's not ideal but we lost ideal when that coin toss flipped the other way.

I guess that's the thing that irks me about picking Rivers. I like the kid and all, but all of this tanking & all we come away with is a replacement for Jerryd Bayless?

That's disheartening.

If Beal is a top 3 prospect that teams tanked even harder than us for and a SG with starting potential who's to say Rivers can't make the transition to a full time 2 as well? As I posted above... they do share some similarities numerically and they have similar height/wingspans/verts. We all know Rivers MUCH better off the bounce that Beal though.

We're used to sophomore and Lillard's senior stats it seems. People seem to forget that with the exception of superfreshmen like Mello, Durant, etc... the numbers Rivers put up are actually good for a freshmen. It's a big wakeup call stepping into college and everybody agrees his game is better suited to the pros.

Beal impacts the game in more ways, Rivers is only a scorer at this point

[JamesNaismith]

If we're going to waste the pick on Rivers we might as well trade down.

[RaptorReloaded]

I dont think we need another player who is only a scorer. People get on Bargnani and Demar all the time about this but now we want to add another player like that? reminds me of a bayless/barbosa

Its 2 bad he doesn't use his handle and ability to break his man down off the bounce to create for teammates

They are scorers but they need to be set up. DD scores within the offence and Andrea needs to be given the ball past the halfcourt to be effective. Rivers can grab the rebound take the ball up then do whatever he wants. Plus for a rookie year his best role would be to come off the bench and provide scoring.

[HolyMage110]

I dont think we need another player who is only a scorer. People get on Bargnani and Demar all the time about this but now we want to add another player like that? reminds me of a bayless/barbosa

Its 2 bad he doesn't use his handle and ability to break his man down off the bounce to create for teammates

your joking right, not another scorer?
we were one of the worst offensive teams this year and your saying we dont need another scorer -_______-. Hpw is he like bayless, bayless can shoot amazing but rivers can get to the rack much better. Rivers is much less injury prone that bayless, and rivers seems like a guy who can improve. But i dont see how bayless and rivers can be compared, two diffrent players.

[MainEvent]

I dont think we need another player who is only a scorer. People get on Bargnani and Demar all the time about this but now we want to add another player like that? reminds me of a bayless/barbosa

Its 2 bad he doesn't use his handle and ability to break his man down off the bounce to create for teammates

your joking right, not another scorer?
we were one of the worst offensive teams this year and your saying we dont need another scorer -_______-. Hpw is he like bayless, bayless can shoot amazing but rivers can get to the rack much better. Rivers is much less injury prone that bayless, and rivers seems like a guy who can improve. But i dont see how bayless and rivers can be compared, two diffrent players.

I'm talking another 1 dimensional player, not 1 dimensional but just a scorer. I obviously am not saying we don't need scoring, I am saying we need a player that can score and impact the game in other areas. If he could learn to use his ball skills to set up teammates I would be more excited.

[HolyMage110]

I dont think we need another player who is only a scorer. People get on Bargnani and Demar all the time about this but now we want to add another player like that? reminds me of a bayless/barbosa

I'm talking another 1 dimensional player, not 1 dimensional but just a scorer. I obviously am not saying we don't need scoring, I am saying we need a player that can score and impact the game in other areas. If he could learn to use his ball skills to set up teammates I would be more excited.

oh, i got the wrong idea. But yeah i understand what your saying, but rivers has a ton of potential, more than lamb.

[MEDIC]

Hpw is he like bayless, bayless can shoot amazing but rivers can get to the rack much better. Rivers is much less injury prone that bayless, and rivers seems like a guy who can improve. But i dont see how bayless and rivers can be compared, two diffrent players.

- Undersized SG (Same standing reach)
- Looks to attack/ get to the rim
- Get's tunnel vision
- Primarily a scorer rather than a distributor
- Similar athleticism (Bayless is faster though)
- Both came out of highschool with big reputations

Watch game tape of Rivers. Looks a lot like Bayless.

Bayless has a much better reputation as a defender. That's the big difference.

Both came from big programs, but Bayless scored more & shot a higher %.

[HolyMage110]

Hpw is he like bayless, bayless can shoot amazing but rivers can get to the rack much better. Rivers is much less injury prone that bayless, and rivers seems like a guy who can improve. But i dont see how bayless and rivers can be compared, two diffrent players.

- Undersized SG (Same standing reach)
- Looks to attack/ get to the rim
- Get's tunnel vision
- Primarily a scorer rather than a distributor
- Similar athleticism (Bayless is faster though)
- Both came out of highschool with big reputations

Watch game tape of Rivers. Looks a lot like Bayless.

Bayless has a much better reputation as a defender. That's the big difference.

Both came from big programs, but Bayless scored more & shot a higher %.

you can say that about any combo guard, to me, rivers plays diffrent than bayless.

[Undefeated]

Using extrapolated stats to justify Austin Rivers against Bradley Beal? Come on now. Anyone who watched the games would know Beal is THAT much superior of a prospect than Austin Rivers.

Here's what it comes down to between Beal and Rivers in terms of them improving. Beal is already NBA-ready with his frame and overall skill set. He has to worry about polishing and refining his skills than learning and improving where as Rivers still has to learn and improve certain skills than polish. Rivers has an NBA-ready iso game, but outside of that he has plenty to learn unlike Beal. Name one skill that Beal has to learn. Now, Rivers has to learn to become a more willing passer (the ability to pass is there), improve court-vision by keeping his head up on his dribble, become a better defender, finishing at the rim better and get stronger. Not that he won't improve on those skills, but they're a lot harder to pick up once you're playing to produce in the NBA.

[MEDIC]

you can say that about any combo guard, to me, rivers plays diffrent than bayless.

I find Rivers is a smoother ball handler. That's definitely in his favor.

At the end of the day, does it really matter if they play differently as combo guards (I don't think they do), but produce similar stats?

- They'll both shoot a decent % from 3.
- They'll both look to break down their man & get to the rim.
- They'll both get to the line at a decent rate.

They basically do the same thing.

[HolyMage110]

rivers has the best left hand dribble crossovers, he always gets his defenders shaken up, if he adds muscle, why cant he be better than dion wiaters? As of now, dion waiters is more nba ready but rivers can be better in the times to come.

[MEDIC]

It's not ideal but we lost ideal when that coin toss flipped the other way.

I guess that's the thing that irks me about picking Rivers. I like the kid and all, but all of this tanking & all we come away with is a replacement for Jerryd Bayless?

That's disheartening.

I don't get the Bayless comparison besides the fact they're both light skinned. Rivers is bigger, faster but not as explosive. Bayless plays like a little bulldog while Rivers is slippery.

Can Rivers play bigger?

- His standing reach was 8'0.5". Bayless was 8'1".
- His no step vert reach was 10'9". Bayless was 10'8".
- His max vert reach was 11'2". Bayless was 11'3".

Agreed that Rivers is smoother with the ball, but what difference does it make? They accomplish the same thing (attack the rim & get to the line).

Rivers is faster? His sprint was 3.32. Bayless was 3.07.

Agility.....Rivers was 11.54. Bayless was 11.26.

[Double Helix]

Using extrapolated stats to justify Austin Rivers against Bradley Beal? Come on now. Anyone who watched the games would know Beal is THAT much superior of a prospect than Austin Rivers.

Here's what it comes down to between Beal and Rivers in terms of them improving. Beal is already NBA-ready with his frame and overall skill set. He has to worry about polishing and refining his skills than learning and improving where as Rivers still has to learn and improve certain skills than polish. Rivers has an NBA-ready iso game, but outside of that he has plenty to learn unlike Beal. Name one skill that Beal has to learn. Now, Rivers has to learn to become a more willing passer (the ability to pass is there), improve court-vision by keeping his head up on his dribble, become a better defender, finishing at the rim better and get stronger. Not that he won't improve on those skills, but they're a lot harder to pick up once you're playing to produce in the NBA.

The fact of the matter is that over the course of an entire college season -- much more than anything one can see from any mix, March Madness push or swish scout highlight mix -- the shooter with Ray Allen comparisons shot the ball in games surprisingly similar to the scorer who needs to work on his shooting the most. The numbers here don't lie. Those are Beal's digits. Beal passes it just as well or as Rivers so I don't get that critique as being exclusive to Rivers. He rebounds better but that could also be product of the role he had on his Florida team vs the one Rivers had on Duke with all of his bigs there. I don't really expect Beal to be a big time rebounding 2 at the next level. Beal needs to work on his speed and quickness with the ball (if that's even possible to improve upon dramatically). He needs a floater or something in the lane because he throws up a lot of flukey junk shots one handed that look like they'd get blocked at the next level. Rivers at least extends out and avoids shot blockers directly. Beal in the mid range sometimes just tosses it up almost out of control.

The fact of the matter is that Beal IS better. I'm not denying that. He SHOULD be if he's going top 3. All I'm saying here is that some are acting like Rivers is a scrub as a top 10 pick but he's 19 years old and has a lot of growing to do just as Beal does. People have been looking at Lillard's numbers and even Lamb's numbers for so long now they've almost forgotten that Rivers is one of the few 19 year old SGs in the draft there along with Beal. Neither dominated. Both have upside.