Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Austin Rivers (NOH)

[N1QUE24]

Double Helix, shutting **** down!

[Double Helix]

If all our fave players are gone, and unfortunately that's looking like a real option at this point, and we enter a new draft tier then we have to strike the best mix of:

Upside (what's this player's chances of being a top 15 at his position in 3 years)
Need (When you open a new draft tier you can consider need)
liklihood that prospect will reach potential/coachability/work ethic (Otherwise it's upside with high risk)

Rivers seems to fit that criteria. The SG position is super weak. He could be top 15 there and become a PER 17.5 type or better. I understand and share the disappointment but BC clearly had his eyes on the best players and they all rose up and one was red flagged. Rivers is a solid, young, 2 guard prospect with a lot of interesting tools. With him it's not about now it's about what he's going to do for himself as a pro.

Bayless had to convert to the PG spot. Rivers won't. He'll be sold as a 2 even though he shares some proportions with Bayless (bigger than Monta though). Oddly enough... he has a better max vert reach than Klay Thompson... not that it means much.

[Double Helix]

I'm about to head to bed but I firmly believe that Waiters and Barnes were the guys BC was targeting first and foremost with Lamb as the backup until the medical red flag. Both moved up because he has a good eye for talent. He brought Lillard back in today for one final look because there's now a chance Lillard slides.

He wanted to envision a 22 year-old Rivers vs the currently 22-year-old Lillard. How much better can Rivers get in 3 years? The answer to that question will determine the #8 pick in the draft in less than 19 hours.

Drummond is out. No coach wants to train 2 bigs at the same time, especially ones that lack back-to-the-basket fundamentals and get by more on energy.

If Barnes and waiters go before us it's either they gamble on the upside of Rivers becoming a Monta-esque talent at the 2 or the polished shooting of Lillard and have him play behind Nash. Prepare yourself for Austin Rivers to proudly be wearing the Red and Black next year. The kid and his pops love this town and he could be here for a long time to come.

Mom/kid-friendly Monta 2.0... welcome to T.O.

[Undefeated]

The fact of the matter is that over the course of an entire college season -- much more than anything one can see from any mix or swish scout highlight mix -- the shooter with Ray Allen comparisons shot the ball in games surprisingly similar to the scorer who needs to work on his shooting the most. Beal passes it just as well or worse than Rivers so I don't get that critique. He rebounds better but that could also be product of the role he had on his Florida team vs the one Rivers had on Duke with all of his bigs there. I don't really expect Beal to be a big time rebounding 2 at the next level. Beal needs to work on his speed and quickness with the ball. He needs to be able to get by guys who'll crowd him. He needs a floater or something in the lane because he throws up a lot of flukey junk shots one handed that look like they'd get blocked at the next level. Rivers at least extends out and avoids shot blockers directly. Beal in the mid range sometimes just tosses it up almost out of control.

I'm willing to give Bradley Beal the benefit of the doubt as a shooter because he admitted to not being a confident player earlier in the year as he did not feel like stepping on the toes of the upperclassmen. And from watching the games I couldn't believe how many times Beal would pass up a good look on the perimeter to Boynton or Walker. But as soon as he eased in and got comfortable on Florida, we all saw how well Beal shot the ball. He shot the ball extremely well in the NCAA Tournament shooting 42% from 3-point and 79% on 2-pt FGs. So, he stepped up when the games matter most showing that shooting prowess he was known for. Going up against MKG in the SEC Tournament, Beal lit it up from downtown even with MKG crowding his dribble. Two dribbles for Beal and it was nothing but net. Also, his mechanics are picture perfect unlike Austin Rivers which is why no one doubts Beal's ability to shoot the ball. Ray Allen is one of the best 3-pt sniper in NBA history, so that comparison is a stretch as it shouldn't be taken literally.

Beal's role on Florida did help him get some rebounds because he started at SF quite often sharing the smallish backcourt with Erving Walker and Kenny Boynton, but that's not the reason why he got his hands on a lot of loose balls flying off the rim. Key reason? He's got such a great nose for the ball. It's that instinct you see from a rebounder knowing which angle the ball will bounce off the rim. Add to the fact that he has a freakish reach and being able to beat his man to the spot where the ball will land faster and quicker without being in an ideal position. It's similar to MKG where they have that trait about them where they seem to get rebounds that are well out of their radius. Just the nose for the ball and hustle I guess.

He doesn't have the same shiftiness with the ball in his hands like Austin Rivers does, but he's still a good ball-handler. Have you not seen Beal's speed going coast-to-coast after a rebound? That's as much control you're going to see out any player having the ball in their hands. James Harden doesn't have the same shiftiness like Austin Rivers either yet he has complete control of the ball even against a tight defense because he keeps his dribble low to the ground much like Beal does. For the lack of quickness with the ball in his hands, Beal makes that up with his change of pace dribbles and mis-directions using elite footwork or even body jolts to fake his defender. Just because Austin Rivers has yo-yo handles and better quickness doesn't mean he's a better ball-handler. Sometimes the guy with the "smarter" handles not forcing through defenses ends up being better.

One thing I'll admit Beal has to do is incorporate the floater and runner to his game. But does that matter if he's such a good finisher at the rim? He shot 79% on 2-pt FGs in the NCAA Tournament here. That's outstanding shooting from the field. Them again, there's not a lot Beal needs to work on. Like I said, Beal needs more polish to his game taking out the hitches that's preventing him from taking his skill good to excellent. Austin Rivers isn't at a stage yet where you can say he needs polishing. No, he has much to add to his game in order to be a complete player. Beal's already a complete player with some polishing to look smoother. Clearly, a team like OKC sees the same thing because they wouldn't be going after Beal if they feel he has much to learn since they're a team with title aspirations.

[Garmfay]

I'm about to head to bed but I firmly believe that Waiters and Barnes were the guys BC was targeting first and foremost with Lamb as the backup until the medical red flag. Both moved up because he has a good eye for talent. He brought Lillard back in today for one final look because there's now a chance Lillard slides.

He wanted to envision a 22 year-old Rivers vs the currently 22-year-old Lillard. How much better can Rivers get in 3 years? The answer to that question will determine the #8 pick in the draft in less than 19 hours.

Drummond is out. No coach wants to train 2 bigs at the same time, especially ones that lack back-to-the-basket fundamentals and get by more on energy.

If Barnes and waiters go before us it's either they gamble on the upside of Rivers becoming a Monta-esque talent at the 2 or the polished shooting of Lillard and have him play behind Nash. Prepare yourself for Austin Rivers to proudly be wearing the Red and Black next year. The kid and his pops love this town and he could be here for a long time to come.

Mom/kid-friendly Monta 2.0... welcome to T.O.

+1. Thats how I feel

[nowayguy]

Please don't compare Monta with Rivers. You're just setting yourself up for a huge disappointment.

[JPHolling]

you can say that about any combo guard, to me, rivers plays diffrent than bayless.

I find Rivers is a smoother ball handler. That's definitely in his favor.

At the end of the day, does it really matter if they play differently as combo guards (I don't think they do), but produce similar stats?

- They'll both shoot a decent % from 3.
- They'll both look to break down their man & get to the rim.
- They'll both get to the line at a decent rate.

They basically do the same thing.

lol well i hope your not big on lillard or waiters... because you could simplify them all like that as well.

[Undefeated]

Please don't compare Monta with Rivers. You're just setting yourself up for a huge disappointment.

I see a lot of O.J. Mayo in Rivers' game. And both had the same hype as the next big thing out of their HS class. Only thing is, Rivers has better handles and quickness, but Mayo is a better defender.

[Zeno]

Austen Rivers is becoming the Tim Tebow of this draft.

With his crazy confidence level, you know he's going to hit some game winners after sucking all game a la Tebow.

[HolyMage110]

I'm about to head to bed but I firmly believe that Waiters and Barnes were the guys BC was targeting first and foremost with Lamb as the backup until the medical red flag. Both moved up because he has a good eye for talent. He brought Lillard back in today for one final look because there's now a chance Lillard slides.

He wanted to envision a 22 year-old Rivers vs the currently 22-year-old Lillard. How much better can Rivers get in 3 years? The answer to that question will determine the #8 pick in the draft in less than 19 hours.

Drummond is out. No coach wants to train 2 bigs at the same time, especially ones that lack back-to-the-basket fundamentals and get by more on energy.

If Barnes and waiters go before us it's either they gamble on the upside of Rivers becoming a Monta-esque talent at the 2 or the polished shooting of Lillard and have him play behind Nash. Prepare yourself for Austin Rivers to proudly be wearing the Red and Black next year. The kid and his pops love this town and he could be here for a long time to come.

Mom/kid-friendly Monta 2.0... welcome to T.O.

+1. Thats how I feel

great point. Austin is so young and has high potential. think about nash coming over in the offseason and mentoring rivers. wow.

[Marlo Stanfield]

Steve Nash won't make Austin anything he's not. Steve is a passer first, Austin is a scorer first. You'd be much better served to have Austin learn from a vet like Chauncey Billups as an example.

[highness]

Steve Nash won't make Austin anything he's not. Steve is a passer first, Austin is a scorer first. You'd be much better served to have Austin learn from a vet like Chauncey Billups as an example.

That depends are we drafting Rivers to play pg or sg?

[RaptorReloaded]

Steve Nash won't make Austin anything he's not. Steve is a passer first, Austin is a scorer first. You'd be much better served to have Austin learn from a vet like Chauncey Billups as an example.

never ever say never ever. If your playing behind a future HOF I'm more than sure you are going to pick up a few things especially a 19 year old kid. On top of that he's got Casey and his own NBA coach father to help him along the way. Thats got to be the best insurance ever that your prospect will be well trained.

[HolyMage110]

Steve Nash won't make Austin anything he's not. Steve is a passer first, Austin is a scorer first. You'd be much better served to have Austin learn from a vet like Chauncey Billups as an example.

it doesnt matter about what type of player he is. IT'S STEVE NASH! he makes everyone better, and if you have a guy like rivers who thrives to be on of the greats then i dont see why not. It's like how lebron went to go see magic and talked with bird and okhaeem about being a player and a winner. same situation.

[Marlo Stanfield]

Steve Nash won't make Austin anything he's not. Steve is a passer first, Austin is a scorer first. You'd be much better served to have Austin learn from a vet like Chauncey Billups as an example.

That depends are we drafting Rivers to play pg or sg?

That's another factor. Either way, Steve can only show Austin a few tricks here and there, but at the end of the day you play on your natural instinct. And Austin's instinct tells him to get his first. If he's coming in to play shooting guard I think he could put up nice stats as a starter, but then what do you do with DeMar? I'd try him at the small forward for a bit, but if that doesn't work you've just lowered DeMar's value and are selling him at a low.

[Marlo Stanfield]

Steve Nash won't make Austin anything he's not. Steve is a passer first, Austin is a scorer first. You'd be much better served to have Austin learn from a vet like Chauncey Billups as an example.

it doesnt matter about what type of player he is. IT'S STEVE NASH! he makes everyone better, and if you have a guy like rivers who thrives to be on of the greats then i dont see why not. It's like how lebron went to go see magic and talked with bird and okhaeem about being a player and a winner. same situation.

LeBron James is a do-it-all, once in a lifetime talent. Austin Rivers is NOT.

[HolyMage110]

Steve Nash won't make Austin anything he's not. Steve is a passer first, Austin is a scorer first. You'd be much better served to have Austin learn from a vet like Chauncey Billups as an example.

it doesnt matter about what type of player he is. IT'S STEVE NASH! he makes everyone better, and if you have a guy like rivers who thrives to be on of the greats then i dont see why not. It's like how lebron went to go see magic and talked with bird and okhaeem about being a player and a winner. same situation.

LeBron James is a do-it-all, once in a lifetime talent. Austin Rivers is NOT.

that doesnt mean anything. He's not going to magic to learn how to play ball, lebron is one of the best players in the league but he went for mentorship. And that's what im trying to say. He's not going to have a chat about magic about running plays and how to play ball. Please.

[JPHolling]

Steve Nash won't make Austin anything he's not. Steve is a passer first, Austin is a scorer first. You'd be much better served to have Austin learn from a vet like Chauncey Billups as an example.

Its not about making Rivers a passer, its about teaching rivers to understand court management, where his teammates will be when he drives, so he can make a pass....if Rivers ever learns to pass the ball (big if) he would be a scary good pg in this league.

[Marlo Stanfield]

it doesnt matter about what type of player he is. IT'S STEVE NASH! he makes everyone better, and if you have a guy like rivers who thrives to be on of the greats then i dont see why not. It's like how lebron went to go see magic and talked with bird and okhaeem about being a player and a winner. same situation.

LeBron James is a do-it-all, once in a lifetime talent. Austin Rivers is NOT.

that doesnt mean anything. He's not going to magic to learn how to play ball, lebron is one of the best players in the league but he went for mentorship. And that's what im trying to say. He's not going to have a chat about magic about running plays and how to play ball. Please.

Your blind mancrush on Austin is clouding your thinking. He went to Magic for mentoring on what? To find out how to play ball more effectively.

[Marlo Stanfield]

Steve Nash won't make Austin anything he's not. Steve is a passer first, Austin is a scorer first. You'd be much better served to have Austin learn from a vet like Chauncey Billups as an example.

Its not about making Rivers a passer, its about teaching rivers to understand court management, where his teammates will be when he drives, so he can make a pass....if Rivers ever learns to pass the ball (big if) he would be a scary good pg in this league.

Read my previous posts in this thread, I've already mentioned that.