Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXXII Off-Season Edition)

[vinsta05]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTm9onQU ... re=related

[ADRajX]

@MagicTownBaller:
As promised, here are the updated part links, page count, and creators. Sorry it took awhile, I was gone all morning and afternoon. Add this to the OP whenever you're free. Thanks again. Btw I'll be on Xbox Live sometime Sunday or Monday night. I have to go to wake up early for the next few days. So we can finally get that 2k game going sometime after.

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[Cigamodnalro]

Besides those of you who are just plain refusing to deal with the Nets, for the others, would you deal with them if they could get Orlando an expiring contract, Brooks, and Lopez for 10 mil a year?

Summer of 2013 would be a net gain of 5 million on our capspace and we'd have just 25 million invested into Meer, BBD, Lopez, and Brooks. We could hit FA hard and get a SF, PG/SG. Remember, Lopez would be a 18/8 guy.

Lopez can't rebound or defend, can't muscle with the elite bigs or doesn't care to, and was out all of last season with injury.

The end goal should be winning a championship. Lopez is not a championship calaber starting center. If we can't pull one championship caliber starter by trading the second best player in the league, then were doing something wrong.

I'm okay (but not happy) trading Dwight for an expiring contract, so long as that expiring contract is Andrew Bynum.

So you're Henny, two options on the table, only two.

1) Dwight for Bynum straight up.
2) Dwight for NJ returning Lopez at 10 million a year, 9 million savings over Bynum.

Is Bynum worth the extra 9 million? What can that 9 million buy in addition to our existing space next year?

Dwight for Bynum straight up. Keep Bynum and have the second best center in the league, or trade him for youth. I bet if we extended Bynum as a condition of the trade, we'd have no trouble turning him into Harden/Perkins or other packages worth far more than Kris Lopez at the deadline.

[rcklsscognition]

I reached the end of my abilities to rationalize the Lopez deal. Can't do it any longer. Was fun while it lasted.

[PeePee la Fritz]

I got the last post in the 122 page thread



Victory is mine, all shall kneel before me, you peasant dogs!!!


Ok I got a little carried away, I think I may need a nap

[pogiro]

Exactly, then what's the point in getting out of bad contracts if we're not going to contend for another 3-4 years? That's not a selling point.

Not getting rid of things when you can get rid of them is a bad strategy. If we can dump guys and bring in other prospects to take up their minutes, it's worth it.

You cannot just say we need to dump Hedo and Duhon to bring in other prospects without saying who. And if we lose Dwight for nothing, we'll have plenty of space to bring in other prospects. There's no need to clear space.

Just simply answer me this... You trade Dwight, you dump Hedo and Duhon. So that gives us Jameer, BBD, JRich, Nicholson, and I dunno, Brooks & Lopez. Then what? I think we'd have about $25 million in cap space. Who do you bring in that puts us over the top? What prospect did we need to get so bad that we desperately needed to dump Hedo and Duhon?

[SolidSnake008]

Bynum for Dwight straight up? no sir....no deal.....need a bit more than that

[Bensational]

its a good thing you dont own a business, you would run it into the ground. you dont let an asset just die, you use it, for the best it can give you.

And a lottery pick doesnt always work out. Kwame Brown? Okafor? Derrick Favors? Wesley Johnson? Thabeet? Tyreke Evans? Beasley? Mayo?

All top-4 picks. Some have turned out to be okay players, some barely hanging on to a roster spot. None of them are a star.

you don't use an asset to take on something toxic. Lopez/Bynum are toxic. why? because if they play to their full potential, they're good enough to keep you out of position for a high pick, but they're not good enough to put you in the playoffs single handedly, or to be the #1 option. there aren't many #1 options moving around in free agency these days, and the most common way to get one these days is to either draft one, or have one demand a trade to your team. no player in the history of the NBA has demanded a trade to Orlando, and i don't see it happening just so someone can team up with Bynum or Lopez.

another reason they're toxic is their contracts. they're both due for extensions - big ones. IF we manage to get high picks, and IF we manage to use those picks to draft a star/#1 option, then by the time they're ready to start taking this team to a contending level Lopez/Bynum will be nearing the end of those contracts and ready for extensions - and both will be between $15-20M. that's a large chunk of your salary to be paying someone who's your #2 option, if they're even that.

the final reason they're toxic is their health. if people didn't pay attention to what Grant Hill did to our franchise, then take a moment to stop and think about it. then think about it some more. you don't pay big money that could potentially cripple your cap and future plans to upgrade to players who are injury prone/plauged/just coming off a major injuries.

you don't have to preach to me how much the draft is a crapshoot - i know. i'm skeptical of the odds of drafting another superstar as well. but if the goal is to win a championship, i don't think Bynum and Lopez don't represent any greater odds at getting there than are the odds of potentially drafting the next Durant/LeBron/Dwight. we are going to suck for a long time, unless we get lucky. Bynum and Lopez don't represent good luck to me.

[Cammo101]

Sometimes the best alternative is to let an asset just die. Especially if there is a system (the draft) set in place to reward the worst teams.

[rcklsscognition]

Exactly, then what's the point in getting out of bad contracts if we're not going to contend for another 3-4 years? That's not a selling point.

Not getting rid of things when you can get rid of them is a bad strategy. If we can dump guys and bring in other prospects to take up their minutes, it's worth it.

You cannot just say we need to dump Hedo and Duhon to bring in other prospects without saying who. And if we lose Dwight for nothing, we'll have plenty of space to bring in other prospects. There's no need to clear space.

Just simply answer me this... You trade Dwight, you dump Hedo and Duhon. So that gives us Jameer, BBD, JRich, Nicholson, and I dunno, Brooks & Lopez. Then what? I think we'd have about $25 million in cap space. Who do you bring in that puts us over the top? What prospect did we need to get so bad that we desperately needed to dump Hedo and Duhon?

Sell the franchise then. At what point do we get back in the market for being competitive? So we don't want cap space next summer for CP3, Ellis, Bynum, Iggy? That's not a good enough market?

[Bensational]

Not happening. This idea that the Orlando Magic are going to bench Dwight Howard for a year while tanking to teach him a lesson is quite simply moronic.

it's not as much about teaching him a lesson as it is about us getting back good value. i think the $20M off the books and a guaranteed high pick is better value than taking back Lopez. i'd rather use that $20M to invest in players i actually WANT to spend the money on, and players that i WANT on the team. not players i was forced to take.

i'd only bench Dwight if he's going to continue to be a sideshow and distraction. if he's prepared to stay quiet for the season and deal with all this when he's a free agent, i'd happily put him back on the court and encourage him to try and win us a championship.

[pogiro]

Dwight isn't going to be here for the 13-14 season so there is no Dwight to build around either way....so why not try to form a more complete team with talent and set us up with picks for the future which we could either keep or trade? Rob said he wants guys that want to be here and guys that will buy into something that's bigger than themselves....If Rob indeed does the Nets deal then he's basically hitting the reset button and trying to build the team from scratch the right way.....New Front office.....New Coaching Staff.....New players with the right mindset and hungry to win....basically build a whole new family that's committed to being a part of something bigger....That is not Dwight....Imho Dwight is looking out for number 1 which i can't blame him for but he knows that it's time.....deep down we all here know it's time as well...the Dwight era is over.....

I just think you guys are overvaluing those picks. IMO they'll likely be pick #20+, several of them even. That's not worth it to me to completely give up on keeping Dwight, no matter who minute the chances are that Dwight returns.

[dsg2021]

There's not much reasons to do the Nets deal, unless it's out of respect to Dwight or Hennigan is following the short term ups and downs of the leverage swings and feels its time to go with Nets' deal as best offer.

I do think Lopez is serially underrated here. He's not an inside player mainly, but still a very smart and versatile offensive player. I think his defense is average which is more than here think, he blocks well actually. His rebounding is not great though obv. I think he still needs a defensive PF, maybe even more defensive/lengthier than BBD or KH could provide. That, or you just get a steal of an offensive star PF like Nicholson reaching a high surprise ceiling and we have to get in perimeter defenders to balance out a top 10-15 defensive team. Either way, Lopez at 7-11mil I would definitely take. I also see Marshon and Tyshawn as potential starters but may have to be flipped eventually, we need bigger athletic talents in the draft than that. They can't give us #6 again but prolly 2-4 late 1sts and I think they have 1-2 rights, minor players who might be nice assets.

With the #6, I'da taken Nets offer before Bynum, but not now and I don't even like Bynum because of his injuries. Dude wears like permanent knee braces and Id imagine has permanent physical rehab, medical treatments too. Looking at how they had to IV and medically care LeBron even though he's healthy in the playoffs, freaks me out enough. Only way Bynum works is if Hennigan and HC are on same page is shutting him down for pre-playoffs and potential injury flare-ups and limiting his minutes somewhat. This will simultaneously improves draft pick chances and Bynum is a more dynamic inside the paint scorer to Lopez.

I think with Hennigan and Co. though, mid/lotto picks are legit. Depending how renters view Dwight's dwindling leverage over time and the ups and downs of leverage/media swings, there is more potential picks, even if it's 2-3 mids, that's still traceable to lotto even if only late lotto, along with a probably young player(s) on rookie scaled deals, this really keeps the cap space clean for renting-for-lotto/1st picks on top of Dwight deal 1sts, and the lack of a true back carrying player is better IMO. We get our own lotto pick nice and high, and everyone is young, building up a culture, roster spots are open everywhere to see many players' potential in NBA games. Not just on theory/paper, D league/overseas, or NBA bench/practice.

[Bensational]

no offense but speak for yourself....Dwight is going to walk anyway.....if i have a shot of getting out of the contract hell Otis put us in then i'm all for the big picture.....Ben you sound like you're letting your feelings talk for you....but it's your opinion so i can respect that....but me personally i would love to keep Howard if he wanted to be here....but he doesn't....so in that case i want to be in the best position i can when 2013 rolls around....

why do you want to get out of the contract hell? if we're rebuilding, it doesn't matter what we're paying. chances that we find a legit superstar who's capable of replacing Howard in the next year or two are very, very low. so i don't see why we'd be in a rush to clear cap and spend up on free agents if we don't actually have a star to build around in the first place.

as i mentioned in another post, Bynum and Lopez aren't those stars. Bynum certainly has the potential and skills, but he's just too much of a risk.

[dsg2021]

Not happening. This idea that the Orlando Magic are going to bench Dwight Howard for a year while tanking to teach him a lesson is quite simply moronic.

it's not as much about teaching him a lesson as it is about us getting back good value. i think the $20M off the books and a guaranteed high pick is better value than taking back Lopez. i'd rather use that $20M to invest in players i actually WANT to spend the money on, and players that i WANT on the team. not players i was forced to take.

i'd only bench Dwight if he's going to continue to be a sideshow and distraction. if he's prepared to stay quiet for the season and deal with all this when he's a free agent, i'd happily put him back on the court and encourage him to try and win us a championship.

+1. And I agree with your original post too.

[SolidSnake008]

Dwight isn't going to be here for the 13-14 season so there is no Dwight to build around either way....so why not try to form a more complete team with talent and set us up with picks for the future which we could either keep or trade? Rob said he wants guys that want to be here and guys that will buy into something that's bigger than themselves....If Rob indeed does the Nets deal then he's basically hitting the reset button and trying to build the team from scratch the right way.....New Front office.....New Coaching Staff.....New players with the right mindset and hungry to win....basically build a whole new family that's committed to being a part of something bigger....That is not Dwight....Imho Dwight is looking out for number 1 which i can't blame him for but he knows that it's time.....deep down we all here know it's time as well...the Dwight era is over.....

I just think you guys are overvaluing those picks. IMO they'll likely be pick #20+, several of them even. That's not worth it to me to completely give up on keeping Dwight, no matter who minute the chances are that Dwight returns.

that's why you can trade picks....trade them to move up or down....or just trade them in for cash considerations....

[rcklsscognition]

Not happening. This idea that the Orlando Magic are going to bench Dwight Howard for a year while tanking to teach him a lesson is quite simply moronic.

it's not as much about teaching him a lesson as it is about us getting back good value. i think the $20M off the books and a guaranteed high pick is better value than taking back Lopez. i'd rather use that $20M to invest in players i actually WANT to spend the money on, and players that i WANT on the team. not players i was forced to take.

i'd only bench Dwight if he's going to continue to be a sideshow and distraction. if he's prepared to stay quiet for the season and deal with all this when he's a free agent, i'd happily put him back on the court and encourage him to try and win us a championship.

I understand that point and I agree. I have been saying Henny needs to decide if he can get a better center than Lopez in free agency or not. If he can, don't do the deal. If he can't, do the deal. Depends on how much they offer him. If it's 8-10, it'd have to be a consideration for Henny.

Putting Dwight on the court would ruin all chance of getting a decent draft pick. We have no chance of winning a ring with or without him next year. Best option would be to put Dwight on medical leave or something. Too bad this isn't baseball.

[Bensational]

Not getting rid of things when you can get rid of them is a bad strategy. If we can dump guys and bring in other prospects to take up their minutes, it's worth it.

You cannot just say we need to dump Hedo and Duhon to bring in other prospects without saying who. And if we lose Dwight for nothing, we'll have plenty of space to bring in other prospects. There's no need to clear space.

Just simply answer me this... You trade Dwight, you dump Hedo and Duhon. So that gives us Jameer, BBD, JRich, Nicholson, and I dunno, Brooks & Lopez. Then what? I think we'd have about $25 million in cap space. Who do you bring in that puts us over the top? What prospect did we need to get so bad that we desperately needed to dump Hedo and Duhon?

Sell the franchise then. At what point do we get back in the market for being competitive? So we don't want cap space next summer for CP3, Ellis, Bynum, Iggy? That's not a good enough market?

you tell me. we're trying to build a contender without any legit building block. will those guys change that?

would CP3 be interested in coming here without any other star players? would Ellis or Iggy make any more of a difference other than solidifying us as a playoff team? would you really invest 30% of your salary cap into Bynum and his knees?

[pogiro]

Sell the franchise then. At what point do we get back in the market for being competitive? So we don't want cap space next summer for CP3, Ellis, Bynum, Iggy? That's not a good enough market?

So you want to bring in Iguodala so that we can be the Sixers for the next 5 years? You think without Dwight we can pry CP3 away from the Clippers? Oh, we'll have Lopez and Brooks. Yea, he'll definitely come running to play with them instead of Griffin. And Bynum?...... Really?

I've said in other posts, cap space is great next year if you have Dwight. If we don't, then what we'll get with that cap space is players that'll make the Magic perennial 7th or 8th seed in the East. Yea, I sure want to trade away Dwight for that vision.

[Nyce_1]

Give me Bynum & Ebanks for Dwight and lets move on. If Harden becomes FA, do everything you can to pair him up with Bynum next summer.

Harden
Ebanks
One of our 50 talented PFs
Bynum

Just find an upgrade over Jameer and let's roll.