Summer 2012 Free Agents Thread - Part II

[truwizfan4evr]

I don't think the trade for okafor and Ariza is that bad it makes us a playoff team in my opinion. Witch is fine with me 2 years of being in the mix of the playoff is a good thing after there 2 years are up we have some cap space to sign players most importantly John wall and Bradley Beal and other young wizards gain playoff experience. That's good for are young players we was not going to be title contenders anyway and the 2013 draft class is not as deep as this year draft, As a long suffering wizards fan I'm glad i have a chance to talk about wizards and playoff in the same breath even if we are first round exit at least its something to get excited about.

[pancakes3]

The magic got rid of Jason Richardson, who was on A contract but i wouldn't necessarily say bad contract. They took on Al Harrington AND Afflalo, both on long term, big time contracts (3 years at roughly 7.5 mil apiece). Furthermore, they lose Howard for 2 young unproven (likely mediocre at best) guys and 3 draft picks? And they don't get to unload the turkeyglue contract?

It's one thing to say that fans speculate too much and don't know the inner workings but it's another thing to have something so blatantly wrong at hand. Orlando overplayed their hand and got caught on prom night without a date and had to take whatever was left.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The Magic did also get rid of Chris Duhon, not that that makes their deal better per se.

Their deal comes down to Harkless and three modest draft picks for what was left of Dwight on his deal, without him re-signing beyond this year. The Magic got something even if it was fairly cap neutral.

Where the Magic are really screwed is they cannot amnesty Turkoglu, since they did the Wizards a favor and have already burned their amnesty card on Gilbert.

[truwizfan4evr]

Bad news guys Jodie Meeks is a laker he signed a 2 year deal with the lakers

[hands11]

Ruz

I am not postponing anything. I'm just a fan. I merely pointed where the team is. Seems like other are posting that they see something similar and they are happy to see the team entering the next stage. As for what most likely happens, I have no idea about that. I just see what the options are ahead. Things will play out however they plays out. I see nothing more then a 50-50 chance that both Oak and Trevor play 2 years. We have to see how they play on this team first before making any kind of educated guess.

They got them for Lewis who they got for Gil. Gils contract was a boat anchor and they turned it into something. That was a huge success given Ted didn't want to pay Lewis to leave along with paying Dray to leave. Meanwhile, someone is still paying $20,807,922 for Gil this year and $22,346,536 for Gil next year and they are getting nothing for it. That is a huge failure. Ted/EG bent Orlando over on that move.

Both Okafor and Trevor will contribute this year. Then they will decide if they want to keep them another year or trade them for something. As for Oakfor. He added a solid rebounder and last I checked, that was something the team needed in the post. Trevor A. We will see. Maybe they can get him back into the role he used to fill where he was more efficient. Not to long ago, he was a valuable piece on a championship level team.

The roster has been turned over 100% from what Ted inherited. They wanted to add some vets to help stabilize the team so Wall could grow in a better environment. They did that. And they gave up non of the young players they added since Ted took over in the process.

Stage 3 will start either next off season, at the trade deadline or the offseason after that.

Are all these moves I would have made. Of course not and I have said so repeatedly. That said, I can follow along with what I think they are thinking. That is really all I can do as a fan to gauge if I think they are moving in the right direction.

I have watched and followed the Wizard for a very very long time. I have seen lots of rosters and front offices. I would take this front office, roster, salary situation and future draft picks over the vast majority of those other teams. And because of that, I have no problem being hopeful about how things might work out. Hell, I have been hopeful under much worse situations and I have been not hopeful when other saw a path to success.. ie. EFJ and Gil with Abe as owner. Right now, I am long term hopeful and looking forward to seeing how far they have come this season.

This team has a nice blend of young and older talent and I like the coach. And now that Dray is gone, they don't have a single player on the roster that makes you want to slam your head through a glass door. As a Wizard fan, I find that refreshing.

[jivelikenice]

According to Alex Kennedy at Hoopsworld, he turned down more money from us and he Bucks. FA really is frustrating. You can't even get a guy like Meeks when ou have more money on the table. This is why tanking hurts ine one regard. You get better draft picks, but you're not viewed as a desirable destination to free agents. To be a real FA player, you have to be willing to substantially overpay.....makes trading the more sensible option.

At this point I'd still pursue Childress or Delfino. If we strike out on both of them, sit back and see if you could take on salary in roster or cap dumps....

[truwizfan4evr]

Would anyone want Donte greene and mickael pietrus? Would love Carlos Delfino the most out of the remaining free agents left.

[hands11]

The Magic did also get rid of Chris Duhon, not that that makes their deal better per se.

Their deal comes down to Harkless and three modest draft picks for what was left of Dwight on his deal, without him re-signing beyond this year. The Magic got something even if it was fairly cap neutral.

Where the Magic are really screwed is they cannot amnesty Turkoglu, since they did the Wizards a favor and have already burned their amnesty card on Gilbert.

Orlando has lucked into two of the best big men to ever play the game in Shaq and Howard and they have blown it both times and traded both to the LAL

And to add insult to injury, they even drafted Laron Profit.

[hands11]

Would anyone want Donte greene and mickael pietrus? Would love Carlos Delfino the most out of the remaining free agents left.

All they needed to do was bring back Roger and the guard line up would have been set for this year.

That is the one move that I didn't see coming. I thought Roger was a sure thing to return.

[dandridge 10]

According to Alex Kennedy at Hoopsworld, he turned down more money from us and he Bucks. FA really is frustrating. You can't even get a guy like Meeks when ou have more money on the table. This is why tanking hurts ine one regard. You get better draft picks, but you're not viewed as a desirable destination to free agents. To be a real FA player, you have to be willing to substantially overpay.....makes trading the more sensible option.

At this point I'd still pursue Childress or Delfino. If we strike out on both of them, sit back and see if you could take on salary in roster or cap dumps....

I think this is why Ted/EG decided to go the Okafor/Ariza route. They did not think they would be able to attract FAs until the organization rebuilt its reputation and got back to some resemblance of a professional basketball team. Again, I still would not have made the Okafor/Ariza trade, but I can understand why they did it.

[Dat2U]

I think this is why Ted/EG decided to go the Okafor/Ariza route. They did not think they would be able to attract FAs until the organization rebuilt its reputation and got back to some resemblance of a professional basketball team. Again, I still would not have made the Okafor/Ariza trade, but I can understand why they did it.

Ugh, that didn't stop Batum from signing an offer sheet with Minnesota or New Orleans landing Ryan Anderson and we all know how popular those free agent destinations are.

Nothing disgusts me more than this argument. I found it down right sickening that Ted would co-sign it and to hear Wizards fans co-sign it just makes me shake my head.

1. This ignores the fact NBA free agency is still a money driven process. Players will have their preferences but teams with cap room have significant advantages in signing players.

2. If our reputation was really so sullied that no one would sign right now, being mediocre or "not as bad" for one or two years would not change opinions or make a major difference. Being the 8 or 11th team in the lottery isn't going to cause anyone to write a narrative about how times are changing in DC. Even during the Arenas/Jamison years, we still weren't taken seriously on a national landscape.

3. If our reputation is really that bad, it isn't changing until the front office changes. Meaning the quickest way to change opinions is change leadership. It's laughable how two years of Okafor/Ariza would somehow transform us into a FA destination.

4. Because we committed to Okafor/Ariza for two years, our free agency window is now closed. In two years when both are free agents, it will be time to reup Wall so most of our cap room will be eaten up. Not only have we given up our opportunity for cap space in 2011 & 2012, we done so for the forseeable future.

5. For those that claim we make trades to create space in a year or two, I'd just remind you of my old saying. Anythime you have to validate a deal by suggesting a second deal, it's a bad trade (see Foye/Miller).

[DCZards]

Ruz

I am not postponing anything. I'm just a fan. I merely pointed where the team is. Seems like other are posting that they see something similar and they are happy to see the team entering the next stage. As for what most likely happens, I have no idea about that. I just see what the options are ahead. Things will play out however they plays out. I see nothing more then a 50-50 chance that both Oak and Trevor play 2 years. We have to see how they play on this team first before making any kind of educated guess.

They got them for Lewis who they got for Gil. Gils contract was a boat anchor and they turned it into something. That was a huge success given Ted didn't want to pay Lewis to leave along with paying Dray to leave. Meanwhile, someone is still paying $20,807,922 for Gil this year and $22,346,536 for Gil next year and they are getting nothing for it. That is a huge failure. Ted/EG bent Orlando over on that move.

Both Okafor and Trevor will contribute this year. Then they will decide if they want to keep them another year or trade them for something. As for Oakfor. He added a solid rebounder and last I checked, that was something the team needed in the post. Trevor A. We will see. Maybe they can get him back into the role he used to fill where he was more efficient. Not to long ago, he was a valuable piece on a championship level team.

The roster has been turned over 100% from what Ted inherited. They wanted to add some vets to help stabilize the team so Wall could grow in a better environment. They did that. And they gave up non of the young players they added since Ted took over in the process.
.

Excellent post, hands. The entire thing. Thank you.

[fishercob]

I think this is why Ted/EG decided to go the Okafor/Ariza route. They did not think they would be able to attract FAs until the organization rebuilt its reputation and got back to some resemblance of a professional basketball team. Again, I still would not have made the Okafor/Ariza trade, but I can understand why they did it.

Ugh, that didn't stop Batum from signing an offer sheet with Minnesota or New Orleans landing Ryan Anderson and we all know how popular those free agent destinations are.

And what exactly does Minnesota have to show for getting Batum to sign an offer sheet? You'd be apoplectic if the Wizards had cap space and then signed Kirilenko to the deal that Minnesota did. Anderson, also restricted, cost New Orleans a decent young piece as well in Ayon. You hate overpaying mediocre players in free agency and you hate not going after free agents because you're don't think your enough of a destination for guys to sign reasonable deals to come here. There's not a lot of room in between.

Nothing disgusts me more than this argument. I found it down right sickening that Ted would co-sign it and to hear Wizards fans co-sign it just makes me shake my head.

The truth hurts, I guess. As a proponent of brutal honesty, this should resonate with you. Front office swagger is meaningless. Going aggressively after free agents and making a big show of it is meaningless. Who they actually land and for how much is what matters. Results matter. Minnesota doesn't get any points in the standings for providing Batum with the leverage to get the money he wanted from Portland.

1. This ignores the fact NBA free agency is still a money driven process. Players will have their preferences but teams with cap room have significant advantages in signing players.

Of all my quarrels with the Wizards front office, not signing the right players is pretty low on the list.

2. If our reputation was really so sullied that no one would sign right now, being mediocre or "not as bad" for one or two years would not change opinions or make a major difference. Being the 8 or 11th team in the lottery isn't going to cause anyone to write a narrative about how times are changing in DC. Even during the Arenas/Jamison years, we still weren't taken seriously on a national landscape.

3. If our reputation is really that bad, it isn't changing until the front office changes. Meaning the quickest way to change opinions is change leadership. It's laughable how two years of Okafor/Ariza would somehow transform us into a FA destination.

The Wittman Wizards are still pretty darn new. The post knucklehead Wizards are similarly new. Give it a little time. Seeing how much our guys liked playing for Coach Witt, word will get around -- even moreso if we continue to improve.

4. Because we committed to Okafor/Ariza for two years, our free agency window is now closed. In two years when both are free agents, it will be time to reup Wall so most of our cap room will be eaten up. Not only have we given up our opportunity for cap space in 2011 & 2012, we done so for the forseeable future.

One or both of those guys could opt out after this season. Even if neither do, they'd both be expiring contracts and at worst marginally competent veterans with good attitudes in a year. I don't think we are going to miss out on any key acquisitions because of lack of cap room. And by the way, even if we did have cap room, who from this list would be a desirable and attainable difference maker?

[Kanyewest]

I think this is why Ted/EG decided to go the Okafor/Ariza route. They did not think they would be able to attract FAs until the organization rebuilt its reputation and got back to some resemblance of a professional basketball team. Again, I still would not have made the Okafor/Ariza trade, but I can understand why they did it.

Ugh, that didn't stop Batum from signing an offer sheet with Minnesota....

The Timberwolves have a better reputation than the Wizards at this point. The T-Wolves may have been a playoff team before Rubio went down with a knee injury. BTW, Batum has been extremely unimpressive over the past couple games in the Olympics - is Batum getting that contract based on his past production as a defender or merely based on his potential to develop his game?

[hands11]

Ruz

I am not postponing anything. I'm just a fan. I merely pointed where the team is. Seems like other are posting that they see something similar and they are happy to see the team entering the next stage. As for what most likely happens, I have no idea about that. I just see what the options are ahead. Things will play out however they plays out. I see nothing more then a 50-50 chance that both Oak and Trevor play 2 years. We have to see how they play on this team first before making any kind of educated guess.

They got them for Lewis who they got for Gil. Gils contract was a boat anchor and they turned it into something. That was a huge success given Ted didn't want to pay Lewis to leave along with paying Dray to leave. Meanwhile, someone is still paying $20,807,922 for Gil this year and $22,346,536 for Gil next year and they are getting nothing for it. That is a huge failure. Ted/EG bent Orlando over on that move.

Both Okafor and Trevor will contribute this year. Then they will decide if they want to keep them another year or trade them for something. As for Oakfor. He added a solid rebounder and last I checked, that was something the team needed in the post. Trevor A. We will see. Maybe they can get him back into the role he used to fill where he was more efficient. Not to long ago, he was a valuable piece on a championship level team.

The roster has been turned over 100% from what Ted inherited. They wanted to add some vets to help stabilize the team so Wall could grow in a better environment. They did that. And they gave up non of the young players they added since Ted took over in the process.
.

Excellent post, hands. The entire thing. Thank you.

No, thank you. Hey. You know what makes it even sweeter. Orlando just blow up their team also. They are just starting to rebuild while we got the head start by a mile. Taking on Gil clearly didn't help their cause. They even blow up the front office. Now if they could just sell the team to a new owner, maybe they could finally get somewhere.

[jivelikenice]

Dat,

We only have Nene and players on rookie deals under contract for the '14 offseason. All our cap space is not going to be eaten up re-signing Wall, and you're ignoring the fact that we can go over the cap to keep him. You're just flat wrong there.....

Minnesota did get Batum to sign an offer sheet but they're 1. better than the Wizards right now with one of the best PFs in the game and an exciting young pg, and 2. they gave him a long-term big money contract. We can get people to sign an offer sheet with us (which will likely be matched anyways) if we're willing to give near max money to slightly above average players. Is that what you want to do?

Free agents don't care who our GM is. They care about winning. If we were a competitive playoff team, we'd be viewed as a more attractive option. I also guaranty our reputation around the league is better now than it was prior to the trade deadline.

There's a difference between validating a deal by proposing a second, and arguing that its not the two year cap-space death sentence you're making it out to be. Options will be there for us to make deals with these deals if we choose to. If they're integral parts to the rotation and we are competing for the playoffs, then why move them?

All that was pointed out today was that a lower tier FA like Jodie Meeks, a player who hasn't earned a ton of money in the league thusfar, turned down a more lucrative deal from the Wizards to play for the minimum in L.A. Free agency has some potential, but also has a lot of uncertainty and you could be left standing at the alter even for the Jodie Meeks of the world.

[truwizfan4evr]

Would anyone want to take a risk with T mac?

[jivelikenice]

^Not at all.

I'd look at Delfino. Frankly don't know why we haven't already. He can give us minutes at SF & SG and is another shooter that could spread the floor....

[truwizfan4evr]

Just imagine if Gilbert Arenas was sign a 1 year deal with Washington wizards. Gilbert kind of lost his good shooting touch i think the best players who fits are need is Pitrus and Carlos Delfino. They both could shoot the 3 and defend the wing well.

[Kanyewest]

^^ Delfino has been on fire from 3 in the Olympics but of course I question if his 3 point accuracy is as effective with the increase in distance with the NBA 3 point line. I recall EG trying to bring in Delfino a few years back when he was on the Pistons.