#15 Highest Peak of All Time (Kobe '08 wins)

[PTB Fan]

Vote: '83 Moses Malone

I'll update it later with more info. Just to make it official now.

"The Houston Rockets of the National Basketball Association Wednesday traded center Moses Malone to Philadelphia for seven-foot forward Caldwell Jones and a first round choice in the 1983 draft. The 76ers recently offered Malone a 13.2 million, six year contract to forego his free agent status.

The Rockets were then forced Philadelphia's offer or lose Malone, the NBA's Most Valuable Player in 1982. So, they traded him, thus acquiring a draft choice they hope to use to get either Ralph Simpson of Virginia or Pat Ewing of Georgetown.

The Cavaliers finished last among all NBA teams in 1982, and Houston general manager Ray Patterson says the "laws of averages suggests Cleveland will not finish very high." Malone is 28, Jones 32."

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=V6 ... lone&hl=en

"Moses Malone, no longer burdened with being the biggest scorer on the team, had 21 points and 17 rebounds and Andrew Toney bomb the nets for 33 points Friday night as Philadelphia '76ers beat New York Knicks 104-89 in the National Basketball Association season opener for both games.

"I don't have to score 30 or 36 points a game" said Malone, who was acquired in a trade with Houston Rockets and signed a six year, $13 million contract with the '76ers. "I can go to the boards, unlike Houston where I had two and three guys on me all the time."

Malone, who averaged more than 30 points as the most valuable player in the NBA last season, actually was the third leading scorer for Philadelphia. Julius Erving scored 22 points as the 76ers ruined the debut of new Knicks coach Hubie Brown.

"Other teams will have to be more worried about us, rather than us worried about them." Malone said."

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Ap ... lone&hl=en

"Moses Malone scored 25 points and had 15 rebounds and Julius Erving had 22 points last night as the Philadelphia 76ers, breaking the game open with 25-8 surge in the second quarter, beat the Indiana Pacers 121-106 in a National Basketball Association game.

The Pacers led by eight points early in the game and were still in front by seven, 37-30, before Franklin Edwards started a string of 10 straight points by Philadelphia. Indiana managed to tie the game for the final time at 41-41 with five minutes to go before half time but Erving put Philadelphia ahead to stay.

The 76ers outscored the Pacers 14-4 in the next four minutes for a 55-45 lead. Philadelphia led 57-49 at the intermission, and the Pacers came no closer than seven points in the third quarter. The 76ers streched the lead to 14 points going in the final quarter, 86-72, and Indiana came no closer than 10 points the rest of the game."

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Kv ... lone&hl=en

Moses Frees Erving "To Roam The Court"

"Moses Malone leads the Philadelphia 76ers in scoring and rebounding, but his biggest contribution to the team might be the freedom he gives Julius Erving to roam.

Erving was especially appreciative of the 6-foot-10 center's presence in Philadelphia's 116-108 victory over the Suns last night in Phoenix. The 76ers' small forward scored 34 points, complementing the outside play of guard Andrew Toney and the inside work of Malone.

Toney, who hit 15-of-17 free throws, led all scorers with 34 points and Malone added 19 points and 17 rebounds.

"Even though I'm technically a small forward, you know 6-foot-6, 206 pounds, I basically play in the low post and over the last four or five years, I've earned a living in the post" Erving said. "He (Malone) has sort of given me freedom to roam the court more and not to make requirement to be under the basket all night in order for the team to play up to its potential."

Phoenix coach John MacLeod felt his team played below its potential, especially while committing seven turnovers in the last six minutes. The Suns turnovers helped Philadelphia scored five straight points for a comfortable 107-100 lead.

Larry Nance led the Suns with 21 (?) points followed by Maurice Lucas with 22 points and 12 rebounds."

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=xi ... lone&hl=en

"Moses Malone scored a season high 33 points and grabbed 18 rebounds as the Philadelphia 76ers overwhelmed the Boston Celtics 122-105 Tuesday night.

The Celtics were behind by 21 points with 7:33 left, but a rally led by Kevin McHale, Gerald Henderson and Danny Ainge, who scored eight points in four minutes, cut the Sixers lead to 110-100 with 3:32 remaining.

The 76ers stopped Boston's rally on a field goal by Malone with 3:07 left and on a jumper from the left side by Maurice Cheeks with 2:40 to play."

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=0E ... lone&hl=en

"Moses Malone and Julius Erving combined for 61 points as the Philadelphia 76ers blew out the Seattle Supersonics 130-117 last night and extended the National Basketball Association's longest winning streak of the season to 14 games.

The 6-foot-10 Malone scored 34 points and Erving 27, although neither played much of the final period. Malone bettered his season high of 33 points by one point. Andrew Toney added 19 for the Sixers."

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=1g ... lone&hl=en

This One May Be For the Books

With Julius Erving and Moses Malone starring, the 76ers are writing a new kind of Philadelphia story

"Julius Winfield Erving II stepped out into the sunlight from his car, removed his wire-rim glasses and squinted for a moment, letting his eyes—he has recently become slightly nearsighted—adjust to the glare. Looking down, he took the hand of Julius Winfield Erving III, and they headed toward the loading docks, where meat and produce were being carried onto dozens of heavy trucks that were standing shoulder to shoulder. Dr. J, a few days away from his 33rd birthday, and 8-year-old J had nearly reached the door of Norm and Lou's Restaurant when a big rig rumbled by and bleated noisily at them with its air horn. As the truck slowly rolled off toward Pattison Ave. in South Philadelphia, the driver hit his horn again and leaned out the window. "This is your year, Doc," he yelled, nearly squashing a Toyota as he did so. "Don't disappoint us again. This year the Sixers go all the way." He didn't say, "...or else," but he might as well have.

The playoff woes that have befallen the 76ers in recent years are a frequent topic of sour discussion in Philadelphia, and as Erving sipped a cherry Coke in the diner he asked, "Why is it that with us people always dwell on the past? That's where the interest genuinely is with our team, in talking about our past [failures] instead of what we've accomplished. We've taken so much crap that's unwarranted."

It's nevertheless true that three times in the past six years—1977, 1980 and 1982—Philadelphia has made it to the NBA's championship series only to be beaten in six games each time. The Sixers' regular-season record since 1977-78 has been the best in the league (327-136), and yet year after year the big prize has eluded them. "Somewhere along the line something always broke down," says Los Angeles Coach Pat Riley, whose Lakers handed the Sixers their most recent disappointment in the championship finals.

By last week, however, the question wasn't whether the 76ers were past tense but whether they would be future perfect. By defeating Denver by 21 points, Houston by 29 and New York by 15—in the process holding the Nuggets and Knicks each to just 38 points in the first half—Philadelphia ran its record through Sunday to 46-7, far and away the best in the league this season, and one that puts them on a collision course with history. No NBA team has ever won 70 games during the regular season, and the 76ers have an excellent shot at doing just that. The best regular-season record was achieved by the 1971-72 Lakers (who were also 46-7 after 53 games). They won 33 in a row and finished 69-13, surpassing the previous best record, 68-13, of the 1966-67 Sixers. Both teams went on to win championships.

Although these 76ers would have to play at a seemingly torrid .828 pace in their remaining 29 games to finish with 70 victories, that would actually represent a slight decline from Philly's present .868 clip. In the unlikely event that the Sixers collapse and become just another .500 team for the rest of the season, they would still finish with 60 wins, two more than they had last year. Moreover, the Sixers have an almost unheard-of 22-5 road record, including an astounding 11-1 against Western Conference teams. They've beaten the champion Lakers twice and have yet to lose two straight games; no team has ever gone through an entire season without losing two in a row. And the Celtics, in other years the 76ers' chief tormentors in the Atlantic Division, lay seven games back, a diminishing speck in Philadelphia's wake.

Surely the 76ers would not be so dominant this season had they not beaten Boston for the Eastern Conference championship in '82, after blowing a 3-1 lead in that series. Philly lost Game 5 at Boston and was embarrassed in the second half of Game 6 at home, where they were roundly booed. "I think the seventh game in Boston [which the 76ers won 120-106] helped us," reserve Guard Clint Richardson says in colossal understatement. "After the sixth, practically everybody had given up on us, and we had nowhere to go but to each other. It was a bad feeling and it hurt us, but it made the guys who were involved in that situation a lot closer."

In the championship series against Los Angeles, it was readily evident that although brotherhood is a virtue, a big man who can rebound is even better. Sixers owner Harold Katz decided to go after Houston's league MVP center, Moses Malone, who was a free agent, and when he got Malone for the tidy sum of $13.2 million for six years, the 76ers had the dominating center they'd lacked since Wilt Chamberlain was traded in 1968.

Malone, who led the league in rebounding last year (14.7 a game) and was second in scoring (31.1 points a game), quickly proved that he could also make the quick outlet pass necessary to trigger the Sixers' running game, get out and run on the break himself and close down the middle defensively with an occasional blocked shot. And, oh, how he can go to the boards. Last season Philadelphia's so-called Twin Towers combination of Darryl Dawkins and Caldwell Jones had a total of 232 offensive rebounds. This year Malone got his 232nd in Philadelphia's 40th game, on Jan. 23 in Milwaukee, and he leads the league in rebounding for the third consecutive season, with an average at week's end of 15.7 per game. "I've said all along that the big thing about him is his consistency," says Philly Coach Billy Cunningham. "He doesn't have any off nights." True enough. Malone has been limited to fewer than 10 rebounds only once this year; he had six in 28 minutes in the Sixers' 120-102 victory over Cleveland on Nov. 26.

"When you lose in the finals," Riley says, "it takes a tremendous toll. You lose a little bit of your basketball life. They had a lot of guys who had tasted nothing but the pain, and that's bad. Getting Moses was the best move they could have made. It rejuvenated them. They went out and said, 'With Moses, we're going to win it this year.' You can look at them and see they're more committed."

"When we got Moses our minds changed right away," says Guard Maurice Cheeks, who is having the finest season of an exemplary career as a playmaker, despite the fact that his assist average has dropped from 8.4 last season to 7.4 through Sunday. "Having him here was an important thing for us psychologically, just as important as what he brings us on the floor. Every time we walk on the court now, we think we're going to win."


As a practical matter, Malone's presence has enabled the Sixers to transform what had been a good running game into an exceptional one. "With Moses we anticipate we're going to get every rebound," Cheeks says. "So we start the break higher. And when we get a step on most teams, we're gone."

The instigator of all this, Malone, who came out of Petersburg (Va.) High in 1974 right into the ABA, has proved that if anyone is worth $2.2 million a year, it's he. He has averaged 37.5 minutes of playing time a game—he went 56 minutes in a double-overtime victory over Boston on Nov. 6—has massaged the boards and has been a timely scorer. When Cunningham has called on him to do so, Malone has also played power forward, giving new definition to that term while lending the Sixers a little versatility underneath. "It's never easy for Moses," says Moses. "Moses got to get out there every night and work hard."

Malone isn't interested in winning 70 games and then getting smoked in the playoffs. "All we got to do now is play ball and not let up," he says. "Can't take no prisoners. If we win the whole thing, that's a great team. I don't care nothing about breaking no records. Huh!"

One of Malone's greatest admirers is Irv Kosloff, who owned the team from the time of its transfer from Syracuse, in 1963, until 1976 and remains close to the 76er scene. "Moses reminds me a lot of Wilt when we won the title in 1967," Kosloff says. "Wilt hadn't won a title, and he worked hard for it. Moses hasn't won one either, and he works so hard that he makes the other players feel guilty if they don't put out as much effort."

Not everyone was convinced that acquiring Malone was such a bright idea. "I think some of the players questioned some of what we did in the off-season," Cunningham says. "But by December we had developed a clear personality and our confidence started growing. I think beating some of the better teams helped convince them." Erving, for one, had adopted a "wait and see" attitude when veterans like Dawkins, Caldwell Jones, Lionel Hollins, Mike Bantom and Steve Mix (the Doc's road roommate) were either traded or not signed to make Malone's enormous contract feasible. The Sixers started the season with four less costly rookies, more than any other team in the league carried, and gambled that the lack of depth on the bench wouldn't hurt. It hasn't. Cunningham even went so far as to put 26-year-old rookie Marc Iavaroni at the starting power forward position, despite the fact that Iavaroni had been bounced from three pro camps after his graduation from Virginia in 1978. He had spent the past four seasons playing in Italy and serving as Virginia's graduate assistant coach, which earned him playing time against Ralph Sampson in scrimmages. When Cunningham gave Iavaroni a chance, he made the most of it, diligently screening the opposition's rebounding forward off the boards so Malone could work in comparative peace.

Iavaroni did have some adjustments to make, most of them mental. On a trip to Atlanta, for instance, Cunningham told the players that the day-of-the-game shootaround would be 10 to 11. Iavaroni showed up at 10 minutes till 11 o'clock.

Besides the youth movement, another concession to Malone's contract is that the 76ers now get around out of town in rental cars, where once they traveled on more costly buses. Iavaroni was charged with the care of Erving's bags one night in San Diego, and when the Doctor was detained by reporters after the game, he instructed Iavaroni to "leave my luggage with the bellman." But instead of driving directly to Los Angeles, which was the Sixers' next stop, Iavaroni drove his car back to the San Diego hotel the team had already checked out of and gave Erving's luggage to the bellman there. The bags were eventually sent to L.A.

Obviously, the Sixers could not depend on Iavaroni to carry all the heavy load at forward, so last week they moved a step closer to the championship by filling one roster vacancy with veteran Forward Reggie Johnson, a 6'9", 205-pounder whom they purchased from Kansas City for a reported $150,000, and by trading rookie Forward Russ Schoene (and a No. 1 draft pick this year and a No. 2 in '84) to Indiana for backup Center Clemon Johnson (and a No. 3 pick in 1984). "I was ecstatic with the first part of the season," Cunningham said following the deals, "but we wanted to make ourselves stronger." Katz was overjoyed to get the two players, although both could be free agents at the end of the season. "I know Billy doesn't like to hear this kind of talk," Katz said, "but I believe this is the best team we've ever had in Philly, maybe the best team ever."

Katz has another reason to be pleased. The Sixers are doing boffo business. Though they have been an artistic success since Erving's arrival in 1976, they've been a financial failure. Attendance in 1980-81 had fallen to 11,448 a game, and though it increased to 12,362 last season, the 76ers still lost money. So the team raised ticket prices—a hefty 45% on the average. Although one can still get a seat for $6 (up from $5), the top ticket went from $11 to $16 and, taking a cue from the Lakers, the Sixers moved press row from the sidelines to behind one basket and installed a VIP row at $50 a seat. Nonetheless, as a result of the Sixers' superlative record, attendance has soared 25%, to a league-leading average of 15,229 a game. What's more, ticket revenue has zoomed by 72%.

But success has added a new problem. "We're expected to win every night," Assistant General Manager John Nash says. "Some people say there are only a couple of teams that can provide us with competition, so why come out? But that's a marketing problem."

If the Sixers prove to be the best team ever, they will have earned it. "The aggressiveness we have is consistent every night," says substitute Forward Bobby Jones. "I've never seen a team that had it like this team does. Every night our opponents know what they're going to face for 48 minutes, and we don't let up."

"I think they're a great team, but I think they've been great," said Doug Moe, coach of the Nuggets, after their 116-95 trouncing by Philly last week. "I don't believe that because they haven't won a championship they're failures. I happen to think the regular season is more meaningful than the playoffs. Hell, anybody can get up for the playoffs, but the regular season is a grind. If they win 70, yeah, they're a great team."

Philadelphia probably would have been a better team this season even without the addition of Malone, if for no other reason than the emergence of third-year pro Andrew Toney, formerly just a spectacular shooter, as a complete player. Toney was a substitute most of his first two seasons in Philadelphia; he became a regular in the playoffs last spring when Hollins was injured and he's still starting. Through Sunday he was scoring 19.6 points a game, third on the team behind Malone (24.2) and Erving (22.6), while playing sound defense. He also has learned to hit the open man even when he has a shot he thinks he can make, which is virtually all the time. "He sees things out on the court that other players just don't see," says Erving, who has become something of a mentor to Toney. "Andrew has such strong wrists that he can throw the pass off the dribble, sideways, behind his head, any way. He came into the league with the shot, but Billy stayed on him and saw to it that Andrew was not a one-dimensional player."

Erving awaits the stretch run with keen interest. "I think we've proved we're a good team, potentially a great one," Erving says. "We're probably hungrier than the Lakers or the Celtics, and that helps. The last time I experienced a championship was in 1976 [with the ABA Nets], and seven seasons is a long drought. Moses hasn't won one ever. Bobby hasn't. Maurice. Andrew. We haven't had the ultimate success, and we've got guys this year who really want it.

"The pain that was suffered, the feeling of having backs turned on us, that's still with this team. But the positive side is carried with us, too. We have the scars, but we also have the glue. I don't feel incomplete or inadequate in any way because I haven't won an NBA championship. I don't lie awake nights and think about it. I know I've given my best to the public, and the rest is really out of my hands. I can accept that."

This year the Doc may not have to accept anything but a championship trophy. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm

"Moses Malone dropped in two free throws with 5 seconds left in overtime to lead the Philadelphia 76ers to a 104-101 National Basketball Association victory over the Milwaukee Bucks.

Milwaukee's Marques Johnson had tied the score at 93 on a 13-foot jump shot with 2:34 left in the fourth quarter, and neither team could muster another point in regulation. The win kept the 76ers atop the NBA's Atlantic Division with a 58-10 record. Philadelphia has now won eight of the last nine games, and 24 in a row at home, one short of a club record.

Milwaukee, in first place in the Central Division with a 45-25 record, saw a two game winning snapped.

Malone, who finished with a game high 25 points on his 28th birthday, was fouled intentionally by Bob Lanier before making the winning free throws. Milwaukee then inbounded the ball to Charlie Criss, who attempted a three point field goal but hit the backboard.

Field goals by Reggie Jackson and Maurice Cheeks gave Philadelphia a 102-97 lead with 58 seconds left in the overtime. Marques Johnson, who led the Bucks with 24 points, hit a three pointer to bring the Bucks within 102-100.

Andrew Toney added 21 and Cheeks 16 for the 76ers. The score was tied 18 times in regulation, including a 21-21 deadlock at the end of the first period. Philadelphia led 44-43 at the half and 74-71 after three quarters."

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=te ... lone&hl=en

"Moses Malone scored 26 points, including eight in the fourth quarter, as the Philadelphia 76ers held off Cleveland rally to beat the Cavaliers 96-84 in a National Basketball Association game Sunday night.

The victory kept alive the 76ers' chance to tie the NBA record for most victories in a season, 69, set in a 1971-72 season by the Lakers. To match the record, Philadelphia, 61-13, must win its remaining eight games.

The 76ers led 71-61 entering the final period. The Cavaliers, however, got eight points from Cliff Robinson to pull within six points three times in the quarter.

Cleveland twice blew chances to pull within four points -- once when Robinson missed a dunk with eight minutes left and again four minutes later when Bruce Flowers missed a jumper.

Philadelphia then scored the next six points, including four by Franklin Edwards, to clinch the victory. The 76ers', who led 51-39 at halftime, got 14 points from Maurice Cheeks. Bobby Jones added 13.

Fourteen of Malone's points came from the free throw line. Robinson scored 20 points for the Cavaliers, who have lost last 16 games with Philadelphia. Geoff Huston had 18 and Phil Hubbard added 16."

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=BK ... lone&hl=en

"Moses Malone, who spent the past two weeks aching knees, returned to the line up Sunday and scored 38 points to lift the Philadelphia 76ers to a 112-102 victory over the New York Knicks in the opener of the their NBA Eastern Conference semifinal series.

The second game of the best of seven series will be played Wednesday night in Philadelphia.

Malone missed the final week of the regular season with tendinitis of the right knee and had to walk off practice floor last Thursday when his knee became inflamed. But he did not look hurt to the Knicks, shooting 15-21 from the field and pulling down 17 rebounds.

Malone scored 14 points in the second quarter to spark the 76ers to a 61-55 lead at halftime. Then, with Philadelphia clinging into a two point lead early in the third quarter, Malone scored two baskets in a row of 13 points that gave the Sixers a 79-64 lead with 5:25 left in the period and New York never got closer than nine in the final minute."

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Ef ... icks&hl=en

"In between, Moses Malone played 38 minutes of brilliant, hard basketball, more than any of his co-workers. He scored 38 points, matching his high for the season. He muscled 17 rebounds, had four assists, shot 15-23 from the field, 8-9 from the foul line and helped the 76ers to blow out the Knicks, 112-102 in the first game of their playoff showdown."

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Mx ... icks&hl=en

[ElGee]

Robinson's Peak?

I see the progression of a team in Robinson's time there that goes something like this:
-In 1991, Terry Cummings (very underrated historically) is still a good part of what is a very strong team. When he misses 15 games, the Spurs were a sub -.500 team (there were other injuries as well, but I do believe these Spurs to be quite underrated around Robinson).

-In 92 Robinson himself does miss 17 games if we include the PS, and the Spurs were -4.0 w/out him. Of course, they tried to play Antoine Carr as his backup which meant all of this loss in team performance came on the defense end. With Bass coaching the team, and Robinson playing (30g), they were +3.8.

The issue so far here is that the Spurs are a -4 defensive team with Larry Brown. Larry Brown leaves (who would have thought!?) halfway through the 92 season, where SAS is -6.4 on defense. For the rest of the year, they are -2.9 before Robinson's injury.

-In 93, the team went through 3 coaches and posted a disappointing SRS (and defensive) future. The team DRtg is -1.2.

-In 94, the Spurs lost Avery Johnson, meaning they were essentially playing without a PG. (Del Negro was more of an off guard.) They added Dennis Rodman, which of course made them the No. 1 offensive rebounding team in the league and boosted the offense. But to me, without a PG, with a marginal coach, at best, the Spurs posted a +4.1 ORtg. Lucas was always an "offensive" coach IMO as well.

Now,they had Dennis Rodman on the team and maybe that's automatically worth something like 2 points, regardless of level of offensive, just from his offensive rebounding. But they also lost their PG. The rotations:

93
Robinson
Carr/Reid
Ellis/Daniels
Elliot
Johnson/Del Negro

94
Robinson
Rodman/Cummings/Reid
Ellis/Daniels
Anderson
Del Negro/Knight

So you'll notice that in addition to Rodman, the team loses a PG (they were trying Negele Knight, who could barely make it in the NBA. They lost Sean Elliot after a really good 1993 season.And while Cummings (now 32 and not the same player) and Reid battled injuries, the Spurs still posted the highest ORtg in the David Robinson era. And they did this Robinson expanding his offensive game. I don't know what evidence people have that his defensive value suddenly changed a lot, if at all. And I certainly don't think the PS series is damning -- I've broken it down before (it's 4 games!).

Now you may say "but the defense wasn't elite like in 1996" (another strong Robinson year), or the overall team in 95...well let's look at that in a sec. And let's also note that if the team has an offensive bend with Rodman/Lucas/shooters, etc. and STILL posts a -2 team DRtg around Robinson, well that's really darn awesome, is it not?

The 95 Spurs, contrary to popular belief, had a "second option" level player, in a valuable shooter/spacer and 41% 3-pointer named Sean Elliot. Avery Johnson also played a full 82 after his cameo in GS. This allowed another shooter (41% 3), Del Negro to slide to the 2-guard, his more natural offensive position. They brought in ANOTHER shooter off the bench, in 39% specialist Chuck Person. They got Doc Rivers to shore up the backup PG spot or off guard spot because Doc was still smart and considered a gritty defender at the time. Cummings and Reid were healthy.

With all that, the teams SRS basically stayed the same. If you're saying "but Rodman missed 33 games!" well, they were a 6.4 SRS team with Rodman (about a point better than 94), and they were a +6.1 offense with Rodman (again, because of that whole Rodman offensive value from his rebounding thing).

95 Spurs w Rodman (49g): +6.1 ORtg, -0.7 DRtg, +6.4 SRS
95 Spurs w/o Rodman (33g): +0.4 ORtg, -4.7 DRtg, +5.2 SRS

So in terms of identity, they look like an offensive powerhouse with Rodman in (because he's spamming the offensive glass) and they look like a defensive powerhouse with Rodman out. My first instinct is to say they played with a different strategy to a degree, since it seems unlikely Rodman is true a +5 offenseive and -4 defensive player (especially without evidence of this in surrounding seasons and context). This is something to consider when evaluating that 94 O/D splie of the team. Either way, you'll note that all the lineup changes WITH Rodman brought a slightly increased offense at the expense of defense.

96 Spurs
Robinson
C. Smith/Purdue/Person (!)
Elliot
Del Negro
Johnson/Rivers

This team also posted a similar SRS (+6). Same coach, same players = good continuity.

So which of those seasons do I find most impressive? 94. Almost same SRS, a younger Robinson defensively, and his best "offensive" carry job (even though I agree with drza that that doesn't need to be his forte here). I don't really like the defensive structure of the 94 Spurs, and offensively they look like the weakest of the group and yet...the best results. So you get a "polished" Robinson on offensive and still a prime defensive version (IMO).

Finally, one more piece of perspective on the PS here for these years. The 94 Jazz were a 4.1 SRS team. They played the Spurs 5 times in the regular season and...they beat them all 5 times. (MOV 9.6) To look at that first round series as an indictment on the team strength or Robinson (even if I agree he has vulnerabilities that someone like Hakeem may not have) seems silly at this stage.

The 95 Spurs got to play the Denver Nuggets in the first round...a 1 SRS team they beat 4 of the 5 times they played (MOV 8.2) then the 0 SRS Lakers who they beat 3 of 4 times (8.8 MOV).

[ElGee]

re McGrady --

The 03 Magic going up 3-1 against Detroit was considered a HUGE upset in the making. Enormous. That they couldn't hold on doesn't say something bad about the Magic, and especially McGrady. At the time, my view (and the prevailing view) was "wow, McGrady was really really really really impressive in that series...he just couldn't hold on." People in here acting like a guy is supposed to single-handedly carry a team against a good defensive unit focused on him and average 38 pts/75 possessions and create for everyone...I mean, I've vented about standards for LeBron James before, but this is unheard of.

I, and most people at the time, came away from the Detroit series WAY more impressed with Tracy McGrady as a basketball player. To use this series against him is something I never could imagine.

[Lightning25]

Not talking about scoring, I'm talking about offense in general. KG is considered to be a super peak player because he's not only one of the greatest defensively, but he was great offensively. But the team offenses he led in Minnesota fell apart in the playoffs more often than not, and he had great spacing on his teams too.

I'm really not sure why an entire offense's production should solely fall on the hands on one player's responsibility. You can explain that to me if you would like, anyone can really.

With that being said, Kevin Garnett had probably one of the worst coaches of the 2000s decade in Flip Saunders so it is understandable why they were so horrible. Garnett is the only reason why Saunders had a job and still does NBA work these days.

McGrady on the other hand did have one of the better coaches in the league with Doc Rivers. I always thought he was an underrated coach even before the big 3 was assembled in Boston in 2008.

Prime T-Mac led offenses in the playoffs:

01: +3.3
02: -2.1
03: -0.4
05: +7.6

So when he gets halfway decent offensive help in 05 in the form of Yao, the team offense in the playoffs is awesome. And the team offense even does really well in 01 against the Bucks (who were a crap defensive team).

I think this is actually further proof that Tmac does indeed go off against weaker defenses and struggle against good ones.

I have already outlined the 2005 Mavericks and the Mavericks in general and they were just not a very good defensive team at least when it came to defending stars. All-stars would constantly destroy them and get abnormally better averages in post-season series.

-01 Bucks were a 20th ranked defense out of 29

-02 Hornets were a 10th ranked defense out of 29, and factor in how Jamal Mashburn was out for this series

-03 Pistons were a 4th ranked defense out of 30, this wasn't the same Pistons because Carlise was coaching the team and had a different personnel than the 04 Pistons.

Here is from the shot finder of the Orlando Magic in the 4th/OT.



It would appear that he indeed struggled in closing seconds of those games in that series.

Based off of memory, most people concluded that Baron outplayed Tmac in the clutch but Tmac was the better player but the latter should be obvious.

[Weerre]

[

The prevailing sentiment at the time was that the Pistons didn't stop Shaq...that the only person on the planet that could stop Shaq from scoring in that series was Kobe, and that he was pretty effective at it.

lol @ this moron. yeah the rest of the team shooting 33% had nothing to do with it. playing the GOAT defense had nothing to do with it.

thats why shaq went off in the game where kobe only had 13 FGA...oh wait, he only got 14 FGA and it was the biggest blow-out in the series by far.

idiot.

[lorak]

95 Spurs w Rodman (49g): +6.1 ORtg, -0.7 DRtg, +6.4 SRS
95 Spurs w/o Rodman (33g): +0.4 ORtg, -4.7 DRtg, +5.2 SRS

off topic: that's very interesting thing about Rodman, who always had great defensive reputation. But with/without data suggest his impact was very good on offense and bad on defense. 1996 season tells the same story as 1995: Bulls offense was better by +5.3 ortg with Rodman and defense worse by 1.8 drtg!

[Lightning25]

I'm telling you -- bastillion must've been watching a different Finals, because Shaq was the lone bright spot for the Lakers in that series. Kobe was "creating" for Shaq? [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUNwbSgKZuE[/youtube]

The dude mauled the Pistons down low. Detroit had defenders shading towards O'Neal in the post every time he touched the ball and he lit them up, and made plenty of nice passes to teammates. Kobe "created" shots all right -- they all clanked off the back rim. The Lakers would often put up scoring droughts because they (and I mean Kobe) wasted possessions instead of running the offense more through Shaq.

YouTube can make anyone look good especially highlight reels.

The issue with this video is that it doesn't show how badly Shaq was being fronted and denied the ball. It was the biggest reason why he didn't and couldn't get the certain amount of touches he should have. It was easier for Shaq to create his own shot and score than it was for him to get the ball.

The Lakers tried to force-feed and give Shaq the ball plenty but sadly that narrative is to make Kobe Bryant look bad and say that Kobe Bryant purposely lost the series to him for selfish reasons which is not true at all. I think a lot of it has to do with his rape charge though since he was just facing it during that time and he became without a doubt the most polarizing and hated figure the NBA has ever seen.

People also fail to realize that Shaq didn't rebound and played pretty subpar defense in that series.

I think it's easy to tell who actually watched the series and who watches box-scores/youtube highlights.

[mysticbb]

Code: Select all

Player              Year    ba     aa    Pace  adj_ba adj_aa  aa/ba
Michael Jordan      1991   25.85  24.64  94.3   27.41  26.13  0.953
LeBron James        2009   24.46  22.77  88.3   27.70  25.79  0.931
Dwyane Wade         2009   23.40  20.86  89.3   26.20  23.36  0.891
Shaquille O'Neal    2000   23.84  20.72  92.6   25.75  22.38  0.869
Magic Johnson       1987   24.92  22.39  101.4  24.58  22.08  0.898
David Robinson      1994   27.21  19.71  90.0   30.23  21.90  0.724
Larry Bird          1986   20.94  21.79  100.7  20.79  21.64  1.041
Dirk Nowitzki       2007   19.09  19.14  90.0   21.21  21.27  1.003
Kevin Garnett       2004   20.42  18.74  89.1   22.92  21.03  0.918
Kobe Bryant         2006   21.42  19.12  91.0   23.54  21.01  0.893
Hakeem Olajuwon     1994   20.99  19.71  93.9   22.35  20.99  0.939
Tracy McGrady       2003   24.21  19.38  92.7   26.12  20.91  0.800
Tim Duncan          2003   20.55  18.08  90.2   22.78  20.04  0.880


Those are the GameScore per 36 min values for each player seperated for games against above average (aa) and below average (ba) teams (regular season and playoff games included). The list is sorted by the pace adjusted GameScore against above average teams. Jordan in 1991 showed great consistency in his contributions, leading to the fact that he has the highest pace adjusted GameScore against above average teams while having only the 3rd highest against below average teams. Especially David Robinson and Tracy McGrady had a big drop in their production level against above average teams. I really think that both are getting overrated due to their ability to just beat up on bad teams, while the teams could not rely on their performance in the same way against better teams.
Interesting that only two players had actually better results against the above average teams, Bird in 1986 and Nowitzki in 2007. And while Garnett, Olajuwon and Duncan have a good argument to have a higher peak than Nowitzki due to their defensive impact which is underrepresented in the boxscore, neither Bryant or McGrady have such argument at all.

[MisterWestside]

I think it's easy to tell who actually watched the series and who watches box-scores/youtube highlights.

I hope you're not insinuating that I didn't watch the series. I still have that on tape.

As to your points: yes, the Pistons fronted Shaq, but on many possessions the Lakers 1) didn't take open looks when they got them, and 2) Kobe took some atrocious shots. Instead of swinging the ball when he drew defensive attention, he insisted on chucking...and chucking some more, as if he was pressing for a score. And long perimeter shots, as well. To be fair, part of this ties into point 1), but he played in a manner that made me question his motives way more than than the so-called "quit" series vs. Phoenix.

Also, Laker defense/rebounding with Shaq as the anchor wasn't an issue in that series. The Pistons were held to their usual inept to so-so offensive efficiencies in most of those games. The Lakers offense was cringe-worthy (even with a great Pistons defense) for games 1/3/4.

[mysticbb]

off topic: that's very interesting thing about Rodman, who always had great defensive reputation. But with/without data suggest his impact was very good on offense and bad on defense. 1996 season tells the same story as 1995: Bulls offense was better by +5.3 ortg with Rodman and defense worse by 1.8 drtg!

That is much more an issue with the used analytical technique and the weird obsession with differentiating between offense and defense. The overall result (scoring margin) is important, not the differences in offense or defense. Good defenders may just impact the overall result on the offensive end due to a changed focus. With a better defensive player around, teammates may just get lazy on defense while spending more energy on offense. Or, the defensive player allows the usage of more offensive talented players in a more appropiate role for them, leading overall to an increased scoring margin while the defense gets worse. Also, a better defender may lead to easier opportunities in transition by forcing turnovers without gambling.
That's why a better defensive player like Garnett gets good offensive RAPM values during his days in Minnesota, his presence just helped his teammates to be in better offensive positions, much more appropiate to their skills, while still mainting an adequat defense. For Nowitzki we saw a similar thing with the defensive values, his skillset just allowed better defensive players with limitations on the offensive end to succeed on both ends of the floor.

[MisterWestside]

off topic: that's very interesting thing about Rodman, who always had great defensive reputation. But with/without data suggest his impact was very good on offense and bad on defense. 1996 season tells the same story as 1995: Bulls offense was better by +5.3 ortg with Rodman and defense worse by 1.8 drtg!

That is much more an issue with the used analytical technique and the weird obsession with differentiating between offense and defense. The overall result (scoring margin) is important, not the differences in offense or defense. Good defenders may just impact the overall result on the offensive end due to a changed focus. With a better defensive player around, teammates may just get lazy on defense while spending more energy on offense. Or, the defensive player allows the usage of more offensive talented players in a more appropiate role for them, leading overall to an increased scoring margin while the defense gets worse. Also, a better defender may lead to easier opportunities in transition by forcing turnovers without gambling.
That's why a better defensive player like Garnett gets good offensive RAPM values during his days in Minnesota, his presence just helped his teammates to be in better offensive positions, much more appropiate to their skills, while still mainting an adequat defense. For Nowitzki we saw a similar thing with the defensive values, his skillset just allowed better defensive players with limitations on the offensive end to succeed on both ends of the floor.

These are the kind of posts that I know you're capable of: informative and helpful without being dogmatic. Good post.

[nikomCH]

With a better defensive player around, teammates may just get lazy on defense while spending more energy on offense.

Can't you flip this around and say the opposite too? Ball dominant players like Bryant from 05-07 were relied on for so much of the offense that when in the game his teammates would stop trying as hard defensively since they weren't engaged in the offense (Bryant actually mentioned something about this after the 06 loss to the Suns). From what I remember their defensive metrics used to be better when he wasn't on the floor and I have a hard time believing this was mainly a result of his supposedly bad defense.

[Lightning25]

I hope you're not insinuating that I didn't watch the series. I still have that on tape.

I never said that but people who usually say stuff like Kobe single handily lost the Finals for them and Kobe sabotaged the 2004 finals didn't watch the series. You never said that though but if you do believe it then I don't know what to tell you.

As to your points: yes, the Pistons fronted Shaq, but on many possessions the Lakers 1) didn't take open looks when they got them, and 2) Kobe took some atrocious shots. Instead of swinging the ball when he drew defensive attention, he insisted on chucking...and chucking some more, as if he was pressing for a score. And long perimeter shots, as well. To be fair, part of this ties into point 1), but he played in a manner that made me question his motives way more than than the so-called "quit" series vs. Phoenix.

Kobe has always taken atrocious shots. I have no idea why you would be surprised by that. The shots he was taken wasn't any different than some of the shots he took in previous series. The only difference was that he wasn't playing against a GOAT caliber defense and he made the shots.

Also, the Lakers didn't have much outside of Kobe and Shaq. Aside from Kobe and Shaq, nobody else scored over 7 ppg in that series. Everyone on that team aside from Kobe and Shaq scored 6.4 ppg or under in that series which goes to show you the lack of help Kobe and Shaq truly had. It doesn't help that Karl Malone and Rick Fox both eventually get injured in that series and they end up losing him and start playing Luke Walton and Stanislav Medvedenko instead.

I've always said that the reason the Lakers faltered after 02 and in 03 and 04 is not because of Kobe and Shaq's feud but because their role players got old and worse.

I'm more than positive some of the lineups the Lakers played in the '04 Finals was just as bad, if not worse than some of the lineups Kobe played with in '06 and '07. It was that bad, really.

[mysticbb]

Can't you flip this around and say the opposite too? Ball dominant players like Bryant from 05-07 were relied on for so much of the offense that when in the game his teammates would stop trying as hard defensively since they weren't engaged in the offense (Bryant actually mentioned something about this after the 06 loss to the Suns). From what I remember their defensive metrics used to be better when he wasn't on the floor and I have a hard time believing this was mainly a result of his supposedly bad defense.

Sounds reasonable. Some players want touches in order to do their job on the defensive end, if a ball-dominant player takes those touches away, they might get unhappy. Also, a ball dominant player might just force players into different positions on the court, positions in which they aren't good or not used to. That effects their performance level as well. Keep in mind, that the Lakers players learnt to work within the TPO, an offense created to give equal opportunities. But Bryant had also the freedom to go away from that, still leading to pretty nice offensive results, but may end up with unhappy players who weren't allowed to do the same.
On the defense end, Bryant's way of somewhat roaming around might also get into the way of the overall team defense, something which was rather evident in the more recent seasons when Bryant did not have the stamina and quickness left to recover.
Overall it is still a 5on5 game, and players need to work together in order to beat other teams. To achieve that the players need to be in a position to succeed, a position which is appropiate for their skillset and level. Single players can undermine such things as well as make it easier to have all players in better positions. I think that this is way too easily overlooked or not seen as a quality of the player.

[lorak]

vote: DRob 1995

[nikomCH]

Can't you flip this around and say the opposite too? Ball dominant players like Bryant from 05-07 were relied on for so much of the offense that when in the game his teammates would stop trying as hard defensively since they weren't engaged in the offense (Bryant actually mentioned something about this after the 06 loss to the Suns). From what I remember their defensive metrics used to be better when he wasn't on the floor and I have a hard time believing this was mainly a result of his supposedly bad defense.

Sounds reasonable. Some players want touches in order to do their job on the defensive end, if a ball-dominant player takes those touches away, they might get unhappy. Also, a ball dominant player might just force players into different positions on the court, positions in which they aren't good or not used to. That effects their performance level as well. Keep in mind, that the Lakers players learnt to work within the TPO, an offense created to give equal opportunities. But Bryant had also the freedom to go away from that, still leading to pretty nice offensive results, but may end up with unhappy players who weren't allowed to do the same.
On the defense end, Bryant's way of somewhat roaming around might also get into the way of the overall team defense, something which was rather evident in the more recent seasons when Bryant did not have the stamina and quickness left to recover.
Overall it is still a 5on5 game, and players need to work together in order to beat other teams. To achieve that the players need to be in a position to succeed, a position which is appropiate for their skillset and level. Single players can undermine such things as well as make it easier to have all players in better positions. I think that this is way too easily overlooked or not seen as a quality of the player.

Another thing is that when you remove a high impact offensive player from the court, the only way the other players can survive without him is to go all out on defense since they won't be able to generate enough offense. This is why I am weary of certain stats such as on-off defensive ratings.

[therealbig3]

I'm really not sure why an entire offense's production should solely fall on the hands on one player's responsibility. You can explain that to me if you would like, anyone can really.

It doesn't, but a star offensive player can affect an offense a lot, so it's important to look at.

McGrady on the other hand did have one of the better coaches in the league with Doc Rivers. I always thought he was an underrated coach even before the big 3 was assembled in Boston in 2008.

Rivers is an excellent defensive coach...I don't think he's very impressive at all as an offensive coach.

I have already outlined the 2005 Mavericks and the Mavericks in general and they were just not a very good defensive team at least when it came to defending stars. All-stars would constantly destroy them and get abnormally better averages in post-season series.

I'm not even looking at his personal production in that series though. As a team, they were good defensively, and should have held opponents in general under their averages. But the Rockets offense was awesome in that series, led by T-Mac.

-02 Hornets were a 10th ranked defense out of 29, and factor in how Jamal Mashburn was out for this series

Mashburn wasn't a good defensive player, so I'm not sure what that would do.

And it shows how the supporting cast let him down, because McGrady wasn't the one who played poorly. He actually stepped up his play.

-03 Pistons were a 4th ranked defense out of 30, this wasn't the same Pistons because Carlise was coaching the team and had a different personnel than the 04 Pistons.

They were still a strong defense, so taking a poor supporting cast and basically playing the Pistons defense about even is impressive.

It would appear that he indeed struggled in closing seconds of those games in that series.

But as I showed, he played very well in the closing moments of games 3 and 4, but his supporting cast didn't do anything and his team ended up losing.

And his shooting numbers got skewed by game 2, when he went 0-5 in the 4th and OT...but it didn't cost his team the game, as they won anyway. If we consider his FT shooting, his TS% in the 4th and OT of that series was 52.3%. If we look at games 1, 3, and 4, his TS% was 61.8%. So pointing to his "struggles" in the 4th, and saying that's why his team lost the series, doesn't make a lot of sense, since he actually played really well in the 4th quarters of the games his team lost.

[Lightning25]

Rivers is an excellent defensive coach...I don't think he's very impressive at all as an offensive coach.

He runs good plays and sets so I do think he is a very good offensive coach, certainly better than Flip.

I'm not even looking at his personal production in that series though. As a team, they were good defensively, and should have held opponents in general under their averages. But the Rockets offense was awesome in that series, led by T-Mac.

And again, just about every all-star caliber player would light them up in the post-season. It's not a coincidence. Mavericks were just not good at defending all-star caliber players, period.

Mashburn wasn't a good defensive player, so I'm not sure what that would do.

And it shows how the supporting cast let him down, because McGrady wasn't the one who played poorly. He actually stepped up his play.

Jamal Mashburn was probably better defensive player than whoever replaced him and certainly on offense.

But as I showed, he played very well in the closing moments of games 3 and 4, but his supporting cast didn't do anything and his team ended up losing.

And his shooting numbers got skewed by game 2, when he went 0-5 in the 4th and OT...but it didn't cost his team the game, as they won anyway.

So that would mean that in Game 2, he did get the help and he was pretty much carried by his team in the closing minutes right? It didn't cost them the game but he surely lucked out because Troy Hudson or whoever took over in the 4th/OT for the Magic helped them win the game which is something that isn't going to happen often.

It's not like game 2 was a blowout because that game went OT and as you already highlighted, Tmac played poorly in the 4th/OT in that game.

So pointing to his "struggles" in the 4th, and saying that's why his team lost the series, doesn't make a lot of sense, since he actually played really well in the 4th quarters of the games his team lost.

You already highlighted his game 2 struggle and his game 1 struggle, so essentially he was half and half in that series when it came to choking or being clutch.

Here was what McGrady did in the 4th/OT in that series. I looked at the play by play in basketball reference.

vs. NOH - 4th/OT

Game 1 - 4/5 FT, 2/6 FG, 2 TO, he missed about every FG in the last 8 minutes of the 4th.

Game 2 - 4/6 FT, 0/5 FG, missed GW in regulation

Game 3 - 3/4 FT, 3/5 FG, 2 TO

Game 4 - 4/6 FT, 2/3 FG, 1 TO,

Game 4 was definitely a useless game considering how it was a major blowout in favor of the Hornets. It was just stat-padding time when McGrady hit his shots and FTs. All of Mcgrady's makes in the 4th were when they were down by 10+.

So really, Games 1-3 were the games that were really close and came down to the wire. McGrady played decent down the stretch in game 3 and he struggled in games 1-2.

I find it rather odd that McGrady hardly took any shots when it went to OT though in the OT games. It was Troy Hudson taking over.


This is probably a better tool to use to highlight clutch shooting/scoring.

[therealbig3]

Jamal Mashburn was probably better defensive player than whoever replaced him and certainly on offense.

He was replaced by George Lynch, who was a pretty good defender and certainly better than Mashburn.

Mashburn's offense isn't what I'm talking about though, we're talking about the Magic offense, meaning Mashburn's defensive impact is what would have been important. But he wasn't that good of a defender, and a better defender replaced him.

Game 4 was definitely a useless game considering how it was a major blowout in favor of the Hornets. It was just stat-padding time when McGrady hit his shots and FTs. All of Mcgrady's makes in the 4th were when they were down by 10+.

A 10 or 11 point game with 5-6 minutes to go is not a blowout. McGrady was the only one doing anything in the 4th, and he was the only reason why it didn't become a blowout earlier. He was pulled with 2:38 left after the Hornets extended the lead to 16 points. He didn't really have an opportunity to stat pad, since I actually think that's a little early to wave the white flag...that's not an insurmountable lead.

I already said that McGrady didn't play all that great in game 1, and he did struggle with his shot a bit down the stretch. Yes, he struggled in game 2 down the stretch, but the fact that Orlando won the game means that the whole premise of blaming T-Mac's 4th quarter struggles for the Magic losing doesn't make sense, because when he did play poorly in the 4th, it didn't cost them the game. And he ended up with an overall monster game.

Meaning, in the games that Orlando lost, he played really well down the stretch in 2 of them.

And sample size is a huge issue here, we can't point to 1 or 2 games in a 4 game series and conclude anything. I'm just pointing out that the idea that McGrady struggled in the "clutch" and that's why his team lost can't really be backed up by anything.

This is probably a better tool to use to highlight clutch shooting/scoring.

And again, game 2 skews things. He went 0-5 (with 2 missed 3s) in the 4th and OT, and the scoring margin was within 5 points every time. Which means that in games 1, 3, and 4 (which is what he's being criticized for), he shot 3-7 and 1-2 from 3 (and he got to the line well throughout the series).

Also, I'm looking over his game 2 play by play, and T-Mac's playmaking is another big part of his offensive game, and he had 3 assists vs 0 TOs in the 4th quarter and OT, as well as 6 rebounds. If you're going to mention his poor shooting, you should mention that as well...which means he was still creating for his teammates, and that he still wasn't being "carried".

[therealbig3]

And regardless, none of this stuff even really matters. 4th quarter scoring and "clutch" are pretty much irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. ElGee has posted about this in detail before, just look it up.