James Harden traded to the Rockets

[Jazzfan12]

Finally, Harden is way better than Kevin Martin. I don't understand how people can debate this.

I want to see Harden perform as a #1 option without 2 All-NBA scorers on either side of him completely spacing the floor and stringing defenses out.

As much as I love fear-the-beard, he had an ideal situation in OKC. It's much tougher being the guy defenses focus on.

He was better with Westbrook and Durant on the bench.

[mjba]

If you're an OKC fan and like this trade, you must have a very high opinion of Lamb. Otherwise, this si a huge loss.

i have a v high opinion of Lamb - think he can be a top 5 SG in the league within 3 years - but it's still a huge loss for this year. as a Lakers fan, James Harden, alongside WB and KD, was my worst nightmare. i was hoping we could pick up Delonte just so Kobe could guard him again.

now, IMO, you guys are done - at least as far as the WC championship goes.

[Michael Lucky]

wow did OKC really just hand over the West to the Lakers? lol

[Dupp]

OKC IS STACKED

Martin and Lamb aren't bad players at all but I don't think OKC is the team that got better from this deal.

They havent. WTF are they doing ? They're right there near a championship. Terrible move imo.

wow did OKC really just hand over the West to the Lakers? lol

Pretty much my reaction.

[Sedale Threatt]

Good contribution to the topic.

Harden's ability or need to use the mid-range shot is definitely a good question for this topic, but Derrick Rose is not a player who qualifies as proving an example of a superstar succeeding without it, because he has one.

Sorry, just thought it was amusing that you would sniff out a loose Derrick Rose mention deep in a completely unrelated thread past midnight on a Saturday.

[C-izMe]

Using greater than signs clearly proved your point.

He has a whole career. Your using a 40 game sample to override a whole career of super efficency.

I'm actually using what I've seen on him recently. Did you not see what last year's rule changes did to his ability to get to the freethrow line? Do you not realize that he is useless if he isn't scoring? Have you ever seen him play defense?

That's why you shouldn't base your analysis entirely on stats. Kevin Martin is an efficient offensive player but an extremely limited and lazy one. I think he can thrive in OKC if he changes his mindset, but he's not the player you are making him out to be.

Harden is just as bad (if not worse) defensively so stop bringing that up. KMart is a great shooter from anywhere on the floor and he can be to the line (he even got to the line at a decent rate last year). What your saying is the equivalent of me saying all Harden can do is flop, hit spot up 3s off of Westbrook and KDs creation, and pass. Maybe the lockout effected him and not the rule changes (like it did for 80% of the league).

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

As a conspiracy theorists, I believe the Lakers will get enough calls to get by the Thunder any way, most likely. That is just the way the NBA works. The Thunder got calls to beat the Spurs because that is the team that was more marketable. The Heat got calls against the Pacers. The Heat got calls against the Celtics (after Boston got calls against Atlanta). In the Finals, the Heat got calls against the Thunder. Blatant calls all playoffs IMO.

So, if this does put the Lakers in the Finals, just look at the years on Kobe, Nash, and to a lesser extent Gasol. The Lakers are not built for the long haul. The Thunder GM could not afford to keep Harden, so he did the next best thing. He sold high. Harden could in fact become the next Joe Johnson.

I think the Thunder moved with the future in mind. They got to the Finals but it was far from a lock they would return. Especially not with Harden in a contract dispute.

Time will tell but I think this was a good strategic move for the Thunder by Presti.

If the NBA is actually rigging results like you say, do strategic moves even matter?

Sorry for going slightly off-topic. I don't want to touch that. My point is OKC wasn't going to the Finals IMO.

Strategic moves could make OKC a dynasty for years to come after this season.

[Ganji]

man Huston is gonna be a fun team to watch this year.

[Sedale Threatt]

If Slick doesn't like it, then I know it's a bad deal.

[Neutral 123]

As a Wizard fan trading Okafor would make a ton of sense. Trading an injured Nene, with 52M remaining on his deal to any team not wary of his injuries would be a masterstroke of genius that Ted Leonsis would be lucky to get. Trading Jefferson but getting more than value helps the Jazz build for the future with Kanter an heir apparent. The Kings won't trade Cousins, but the Maloofs are hard up for money and they might before they sign sell.

I can rationalize all these deals for other teams. OKC took the players and picks and so would lesser teams. You say it wouldn't make sense. I disagree.

Harden is the asset! Why in the world would you take Martin to move him, when Harden is by far the more valuable player?

[twinthunder3]

Great for both teams. Houston get a franchise player & OKC gets an expiring.

[Getouttahea22]

Man what an exciting trade! Interesting article if it hasn't already been posted

http://www.nba.com/rockets/news/blockbu ... en-houston

As far as winning the trade, both sides got value for their assets. Harden is the best/most proven player in the trade, most people would agree, but Martin has looked good in preseason (yes, it's been preseason). Lamb hasn't been particularly impressive in preseason, but he hasn't had a ton of minutes. The draft picks are still question marks because we don't know how well Raptors and Mavs will do, but I don't think the Mavs pick is all that valuable due to protection right? So really it's the Raptors pick that's the 3rd major piece. Harden really fits with what the Rockets are trying to do, I think because he's still very young. Rockets starting lineup looks pretty good, though ironically for Houston, PF might be the biggest question mark .

OKC got some interesting pieces, but I'm not sure I like the idea of losing an important piece to a team that went to the Finals last year. Anyways, I suspect it will be difficult to judge a winner and a loser in this trade for a while...

Big picture, I think OKC is still a solid contender though maybe not as good as they would've been with Harden, and Houston is a serious contender for getting into the playoffs I think.

[Bertrob]

Hardwood Paroxysm ‏@HPbasketball

For comparison, Martin was in the 87th percentile for offense last year. Harden was in the 99th.

[desertlakerfan]

REGULAR SEASON

OKC offense w/James Harden: 114.96 points per 100 possessions
OKC offense w/o James Harden: 100.84 points per 100 possessions

PLAYOFFS

OKC offense w/James Harden: 115.13 points per 100 possessions
OKC offense w/o James Harden: 102.46 points per 100 possessions

League average offense: 104.6 points per 100 possessions
Leauge best offense: 110.9 points per 100 possesions


Slick Watts posted these stats in the Harden thread from earlier today before the trade went down.

Im pretty sure they have something to do with why he doesn't like the move, and many Laker fans love it.

[TwentyOne920]

OKC just traded away their second most efficient player.

[PurpleRooster]

Kevin Martin as a first and 2nd option is disastrous.

Kevin Martin as 3rd/4th option? Dude is one of the smartest offensive player in terms of cutting and getting himself open and absolutely lethal from 3pt range. He can't create but he will excel in the Thunder offense as a shooter.

Yep

[mjba]

If Slick doesn't like it, then I know it's a bad deal.

haha. co-sign

[Rerisen]

Sorry, just thought it was amusing that you would sniff out a loose Derrick Rose mention deep in a completely unrelated thread past midnight on a Saturday.

This is the biggest news of the day, if not the offseason, but yes, why would anyone be reading this thread, let alone point out a blatantly wrong basketball point in it. But by all means keep digging.

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

I'd think Martin starts, and OKC sacrifices some defence for offence, but it may be worth it, because they could quite possibly have one of the best outside shooting attacks in the game, adding a career 38% 3pt shooter alongside Durant, who shot 39% last season from beyond the arc. They could even go small & move Durant to the 4 for stretches, and bring Lamb or Sefolosha (who shot a career-high 43% from 3 last season) into the mix as well.

Westbrook
Martin
Durant
Ibaka
Perkins

Enough offence from the first 3 to offset the lack of scoring punch from ibaka and Perkins.

Martin must be salivating at the thought of the open looks he's going to get as the beneficiary of all the double teams Westbrook and Durant will garner. Must be an awesome feeling for a shooter.

[twinthunder3]

Notice the transition...Harden becomes a starter & Martin becomes a bench player.