Wiz at Cleveland 7:00 PM Tuesday Oct 30th

[montestewart]

OK. Peace Hands

[truwizfan4evr]

Beal is such a nice kid that may be his biggest weakness. He's has to lose the nice guy act on the court and play more aggressive he has the talent now he needs the mind set don't show your opponent no respect and come out playing more aggressively then he did in are first game.

[Upper Decker]

Beal is not Harden and probably won't have the career of Lillard either (Lillard is just a beast). Beal can become a good player, but I've seen a lot of people around here say he's Hardeneqsue. I just don't see it. Harden has two things Beal's didn't demonstrated in college/pre-season. An elite first step and elite ball-handling. Maybe he has it, but I just haven't seen it, yet. Harden is so exceptional at PnR because once he sets up the defender he's able to explode by them, ala Gilbert in his prime. I consider Beal a SG version of tough juice before he became prune juice. A smooth athlete, albeit not exceptional in any way, undersized for the position, cerebral who can impact the game in many ways.

[pancakes3]

- I like that sg-version-of-butler comparison.
- Good to see that I'm not the only person to have a meltdown re: "I've been telling you" posts.
- Okafor and Vesely were very active but overall not very productive. Lots of movement but little results. Also, it looked like Okafor was chasing blocks instead of playing defense.
- Ariza played the best he's played in years and ended up merely serviceable.
- We moved the ball around well but as Nate (?) said earlier we just have no creators when the offense breaks down.

[truwizfan4evr]

Beal admitted he was not aggressive as he should be i hope he learns from his mistake and come back strong.

[fugop]

I'm comfortable writing this game off as something of a fluke. If this hadn't been Cleveland's home opener, Verejao would have been in foul trouble in the first quarter. He grabs, holds, pushes, climbs over the back, etc. Booker and Vesely were getting called for fouls that paled in comparison to Verejao's regular behavior. I'm not particularly upset, but it shouldn't be taken as a particularly meaningful reflection of the team's ability to rebound or box out. If we're getting killed on the boards ten games into the season, I'll sing a different tune.

I don't begrudge Verejao his dirtiness. He's a pain in the posterior, but the sort of pain I respect. I wish Vesely would emulate his game and learn from his "veteran savvy." As is, Vesely is useless. The game just hasn't slowed down for him. He bobbles every pass, fumbles every rebound. He's manic, but it's wasted energy. I don't know what it takes for the game to "slow" for a player (regular repetition?), but it needs to for Vesely or he should be written off.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Varejao is somewhat underrated, like Harden was with OKC. Stats showed the positive effect Anderson had on those Cavs teams that Lebron won so many playoff games with. Varejao was arguably the second-most valuable teammate, not Mo Williams or Zydrunas Ilgauskas. Ironically, his role was the same as that of Serge Ibaka to OKC today. They need a dirty work guy who rebounds, blocks shots, and who doesn't require plays called for him to score. I see why Presti valued Ibaka so highly and I see what a player like Varejao is worth--a lot.

The Wizards really would be sitting pretty with Varejao instead of Okafor. I really believe Okafor would be just as good or even better if he were slightly longer but if he played with a lot more energy. Skill wise, Okafor should be better than Varejao and maybe he is better. He just doesn't have the motor or quickness Varejao does IMO.

Or is it desire?

[maljanNBAfan]

I'm comfortable writing this game off as something of a fluke. If this hadn't been Cleveland's home opener, Verejao would have been in foul trouble in the first quarter. He grabs, holds, pushes, climbs over the back, etc. Booker and Vesely were getting called for fouls that paled in comparison to Verejao's regular behavior. I'm not particularly upset, but it shouldn't be taken as a particularly meaningful reflection of the team's ability to rebound or box out. If we're getting killed on the boards ten games into the season, I'll sing a different tune.

I don't begrudge Verejao his dirtiness. He's a pain in the posterior, but the sort of pain I respect. I wish Vesely would emulate his game and learn from his "veteran savvy." As is, Vesely is useless. The game just hasn't slowed down for him. He bobbles every pass, fumbles every rebound. He's manic, but it's wasted energy. I don't know what it takes for the game to "slow" for a player (regular repetition?), but it needs to for Vesely or he should be written off.

I have some major issues with Vesely as well. Your description of him as 'manic, but it's wasted energy' is the perfect way to describe what's happening here. I don't know what it takes for a slower to find his sense of control either, but let's hope repetition will be the key to getting him on track.

[hands11]

Beal is such a nice kid that may be his biggest weakness. He's has to lose the nice guy act on the court and play more aggressive he has the talent now he needs the mind set don't show your opponent no respect and come out playing more aggressively then he did in are first game.

I was thinking something very similar just yesterday.

But I have seen Beal show that killer instinct on the court before. He seems to have two sides to him. But I think your right that he leans a little more to the nice guy side. Every great athlete needs that ...eye of the tiger.. inside. How good he will eventually become will in large part be a direct result of how much of that he has in him. The greats have it.

Good news is... I think Randy is the kind of coach that will help bring it out of him. He doesn't mind challenging a player. Something to watch for sure. One game isn't enough to draw any real conclusions from though. For now, being 19, his calmness seems to be an advantage because he isn't overwhelmed. But to much of that approach is a bad thing.

What I was really hoping..dare I say..expecting to see from Beal last game ... was him driving to the hoop the first time he had a chance. I expected him to get it at that level and come out to make a statement.

[willbcocks]

Vesely only had one turnover last night. I don't think bobbling and fumbling is the problem--he is pretty good at catching tight passes in the lane and, for a player with one year and one game of NBA basketball under his belt, he does a good job passing and moving the ball. And he does so extremely quickly.

The biggest problem is he gets completely pushed around and can't establish himself for defensive rebounds. That and he always seems focused on boxing out his man (which he often fails at) rather than aggresively trying to get the rebounds. He needs to work on his KG strength--he needs to be able to hold his own without the big muscles. If he's no longer a liability defending stronger players, he'll be able to stay on the floor, because he's already useful on the offensive end.

[hands11]

Beal is not Harden and probably won't have the career of Lillard either (Lillard is just a beast). Beal can become a good player, but I've seen a lot of people around here say he's Hardeneqsue. I just don't see it. Harden has two things Beal's didn't demonstrated in college/pre-season. An elite first step and elite ball-handling. Maybe he has it, but I just haven't seen it, yet. Harden is so exceptional at PnR because once he sets up the defender he's able to explode by them, ala Gilbert in his prime. I consider Beal a SG version of tough juice before he became prune juice. A smooth athlete, albeit not exceptional in any way, undersized for the position, cerebral who can impact the game in many ways.

I agree. Watching some Harden highlights from the other night I was seeing that Gilness style to his game on offense. He has great change of pace and uses his body to leverage his way to the hoop. Plus he can pass really well. And has range.

So how is Hardens defense ?

[willbcocks]

Varejao is really good. The Thunder should hope that Ibaka has the same impact on the game, as Andy seems to always make smart plays that help the team win. His problem has been health.

[hands11]

- I like that sg-version-of-butler comparison.
- Good to see that I'm not the only person to have a meltdown re: "I've been telling you" posts.
- Okafor and Vesely were very active but overall not very productive. Lots of movement but little results. Also, it looked like Okafor was chasing blocks instead of playing defense.
- Ariza played the best he's played in years and ended up merely serviceable.
- We moved the ball around well but as Nate (?) said earlier we just have no creators when the offense breaks down.

Well Crawford can create. Problem is he also chucks.
Webster can create a little but not nearly enough.

Thats why this team needs a post threats until Wall returns.
The offense will them be based off defense and transition with a post threat "Kevin" for now... who can help them play inside out. Most every other player on the team is a system player. A compliment player. What they are missing are the core pieces.

Then they get Nene back and they get another post threat option. And both Nene and Kevin can hit from mid range.

Then Wall returns and that helps to open up the whole system. Now you have even more fast breaks and you have someone who can break down and create. Plus as I recently posted from a Wall interview, Wall said he worked on his post up game. That is a new wrinkle we didnt see last year. Think Kid posting up.

Right now the team is mostly support pieces to Wall, Nene and Kevin only none of them are on the court. With all them out, Booker had to step up and he admitted, he laid and egg. He even took blame for the loss.

Lets see how they look once Kevin is back and Booker plays more like Booker. I think it will look significantly better. Then Nene. Even better. Then Wall.

I think that last game was pretty near rock bottom of what they can be. Not saying we won't see that rock bottom again until we get some player back, but that was pretty much rock bottom. But I get it considering what they are missing. The good news is, none of the injuries seem to be what I consider major injuries. No broken feet. No torn ACLs. Hopefully Kevin returns healthy and stays that way.

[AFM]

Beal just needs to chug a few Red Bulls before the next game. Or shoot some cocayeena into his balls

[payitforward]

I just simply marvel at EG's ability to maintain his employment. He's almost at Teflon Don status now. His ability to spin his failures is beyond reproach. He's been able to deflect some incredibly bad situations and yet he still gets contract extensions and the unabashed favor of his bosses.

+1 Yup... the one greatest skill Ernie has is managing his owner.

I'm told that Ted has never fired a GM. I can't wait for him to break that mold....

[payitforward]

Look monistat...

You know... me you call Mitt Romney. Now you have another name to call another participant here. Maybe it's you who should...

Stop with the over reacting about everything.

What do you think? At least give it a try please. I don't believe I've ever called you a name or imagined it was ok for me to characterize you or anyone else here, as in...

My God. I get the sense you would complain at a Penthouse party.

I hope you understand what I mean, don't get exercised by it, and will please make an effort.

You don't need to respond to this post if you don't want to, and I am most definitely not looking for any controversy or a dispute w/ you. I don't mean these words in that tenor at all. There are many things more important to you and to me than the Wizards; from the politics threads here I can see that we agree on some significant ones. All best, all good.

[jivelikenice]

Can we hear from everyone who was ready to anoint Irving as MVP and Waiters as ROY?

Nothing against either, but the "woe is me" I wish we had gotten irving and Waiters has been insufferable on this board. Irving is a very efficient scorer/shooter; not a good point guard. Doesn't make those around him better and isn't asked to run the offense. Waiters/ Beal....way to early to tell (although I dno't like Beal's passive nature as I mentioned before)

[willbcocks]

So what if Irving isn't a pure point guard? Neither is Derrick Rose, but he won MVP in his third year. The cavs will be able to build their offense around Irving, because he's such a good scorer that he'll require double teams and set up teammates with easy passes.

[Illuminaire]

There is a lot of grass-is-greener chatter that goes around every time Irving has a good game, Willbcocks. I can understand that, because Irving is certainly a good player. It's still annoying though... and the swell of "OMG WAITERS!" posts was just ridiculous.

I can't speak for Jive, but it often seems like if we had Irving we'd be complaining about how he doesn't pass enough to be a real PG and John Wall is a jumpshot away from owning the league. It just seems to be the way (most of) the board is wired.

[jivelikenice]

So what if Irving isn't a pure point guard? Neither is Derrick Rose, but he won MVP in his third year. The cavs will be able to build their offense around Irving, because he's such a good scorer that he'll require double teams and set up teammates with easy passes.

He's already getting doubled, yet looks to score rather than pass so I'm not sure why you're expecting the assist numbers to go up. DRose isn't a pure pt, but his assist numbers, especially after Hinrich was dealt to us are far superior to Irving's. DRose also is a superior athlete, at least prior to the injury. Irving was having a difficult time even getting quality shots off against Hinrich. He had the worst plus/ minus on the team, and Hinrich and Nate Robinson were torching him on Offense also.

My greater point is what Illuminaire said, that this board is riddled with the grass is greener on the other side mentality. Irving is talented and a good shooter and scorer, but is not the HOFer ppl make him out to be. He's simply more aesthetically pleasing to watch because his shooting and scoring ability...if Wall had a game like Kyrie's yesterday, ppl on this board would be suggesting dealing him for picks or would whine about how we missed out yet again....