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Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - 12/13/12)

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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1161 » by Halcyon » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:11 am

Cousins is like a bigger, meaner, crazier Andray Blatche from an alternate universe. Common attributes include lots of unusual skills for a bigman, very low shooting percentage, non-existent shotblocker. No thanks, would rather keep the 2013 pick, even if the draft is weak.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1162 » by DANNYLANDOVER » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:49 am

I'm only doing it to get rid of Nene's contract. Dude is not gonna be healthy and we have 4 more years of him!!! Unbelievable!
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1163 » by DANNYLANDOVER » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:52 am

montestewart wrote:
DANNYLANDOVER wrote:How about this trade with Sacramento: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c7jlf6t
WAS trades Nene, Vesely, Crawford, 2013 top 2 protected first rd pick and a 2nd rd pick
SAC trades Cousins, Salmons, Fredette

projected lineup:
Wall/Fredette/Price
Beal/Martin/Fredette
Salmons/Ariza/Webster
Seraphin/Singleton/Booker
Cousins/Okafor

So much for acquiring veterans, maintaining continuity, and no knuckleheads, but since they seem to be changing and making up rules as they go along, why not? Well, I'll tell you why not. Because that's the grand return savvy EG got for McGee, plus two years' high lottery picks (and yet another high second), in return for a single player their own criteria clearly define as a knucklehead. That's a lot of back pedaling and rationalizing, even for Terd and Ernie. You can almost see them passing on a good player rather than admitting they made a mistake. (And, as much potential as Cousins seems to have, he is kind of a knucklehead, and a tremendously inefficient scorer for such a huge, inside player. )

I think he will be more efficient playing with John and will not be required to create his shot as much. He's still an excellent rebounder and commands double teams inside. I would pick him over Blake Griffin right now.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1164 » by DANNYLANDOVER » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:56 am

Halcyon wrote:Cousins is like a bigger, meaner, crazier Andray Blatche from an alternate universe. Common attributes include lots of unusual skills for a bigman, very low shooting percentage, non-existent shotblocker. No thanks, would rather keep the 2013 pick, even if the draft is weak.

Even for a top 2 protected pick in a weak draft? who cares about 2nd rounders? it's not like Ted ever uses them. This trade was proposed, having in mind that EG would be gone by then and a new GM can reshape this hodge-podge of a roster.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1165 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:40 pm

DANNYLANDOVER wrote:How about this trade with Sacramento: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c7jlf6t
WAS trades Nene, Vesely, Crawford, 2013 top 2 protected first rd pick and a 2nd rd pick
SAC trades Cousins, Salmons, Fredette

projected lineup:
Wall/Fredette/Price
Beal/Martin/Fredette
Salmons/Ariza/Webster
Seraphin/Singleton/Booker
Cousins/Okafor


Great trade!

DANNY, this is a no-brainer deal that effectively turns McGee into Cousins while swapping Crawford for Fredette.

I don't care if Cousins is a crazier, meaner Blatche. He's also a great rebounder and a major talent upgrade on a rookie deal. We already know the guy plays great with John Wall. Great trade, because the Wizards would also have the right bigs around Cousins. Kevin and DeMarcus would easily become one of the most intimidating front courts. Okafor would become worth keeping as a mentor/fall back big. Kevin and Emeka have the athleticism, which DeMarcus lacks, to block shots and to finish at the rim over players.

Note: Cousins tends to have his best games against some of the league's best big men.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... =howardw01
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... =bynuman01
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1166 » by montestewart » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:57 pm

DANNYLANDOVER wrote:I'm only doing it to get rid of Nene's contract. Dude is not gonna be healthy and we have 4 more years of him!!! Unbelievable!

I should have mentioned that before. That's definitely a plus of this trade. I don't think I'd do it because of of the potential of that high pick next year and Cousins' scoring efficiency, but maybe with Wall and more athletic front court mates, Cousins deficiencies are minimized. Not a bad trade. He is currently on suspension, and apparently no one wants to talk about that out there.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1167 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:06 pm

Moved post
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1168 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:35 pm

montestewart wrote:
DANNYLANDOVER wrote:I'm only doing it to get rid of Nene's contract. Dude is not gonna be healthy and we have 4 more years of him!!! Unbelievable!

I should have mentioned that before. That's definitely a plus of this trade. I don't think I'd do it because of of the potential of that high pick next year and Cousins' scoring efficiency, but maybe with Wall and more athletic front court mates, Cousins deficiencies are minimized. Not a bad trade. He is currently on suspension, and apparently no one wants to talk about that out there.


I can understand Cousins wanting to kick somebody's ass, monte. :)

I believe Cousins is sensitive to how he's perceived and that he took exception to what Elliott said. It is up for debate what really transpired when he spoke to Sean Elliott, but it wasn't a great idea for Cousins to do so, for sure.

Sean Elliott read disrespect into the trash talking. I can see both sides, but Cousins is definitely out of line for confronting an announcer.

This one is a pick-a-side, but IMO just one of those things. Decide for yourself.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nb ... a/1703371/

11:51PM EST November 13. 2012 - The NBA denied Tuesday an request for reconsideration that would have allowed Sacramento Kings center DeMarcus Cousins to play in tonight's game against Portland, a person with knowledge of the situation told USA TODAY Sports.


During the telecast of the Spurs-Kings game, Ellliott had been critical of Cousins for trash talk that took place between him and forward Tim Duncan. Cousins, according to numerous people with knowledge of the incident who requested anonymity because of the ongoing investigation, was told of Elliott's comments and later left the team's locker room after the game to discuss the situation with him. While several people saw the two talking in close proximity in a quiet manner on the court before parting ways abruptly, the union has yet to find any witnesses who heard what was said and contests that it has become a case of one man's word against another's.


"(It was) a competitive big man battle, but some people — I want to say people who are immature — want to go on TV and make comments about it," Cousins told news reporters after the game. "But uh, I mean trash talking is part of the game. I've got the utmost respect for Tim Duncan, so me trash talking (to Duncan) is not being disrespectful. I understand he's ... the greatest power forward to play this game. But for (Elliott) to go on TV and say the comment that he said, that's immature.

"Me and Tim, we're good. Like I said, I've got the utmost respect for him. But for the commentator to say the things he said, that was immature."


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ko0U8B0WSc&playnext=1&list=PLsqJCeGrAtPVV-7fQ1Yx53FyrrbhbuCsB&feature=results_video[/youtube]
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1169 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:17 pm

Here is an idea for a trade with Detroit: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=attfpp8

Washington sends Trevor Ariza, Jordan Crawford, Trevor Booker
Detroit sends Rodney Stuckey, Austin Daye, Khris Middleton


Stuckey is the best player in the deal and both Daye and Middleton offer something the Wizards need. Daye is a tall, stretch four who IMO can become a close-out-games scorer if he gains confidence. (I remember his dad, Darren Daye, with the Bullets.) Middleton is a diamond in the rough, and a guy I think can probably start and play well at SF, eventually.

This curiously is projected by the Trade Machine to make both 0-8 Detroit and 0-6 Washington worse. How's that possible? :lol:
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1170 » by nate33 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:14 pm

Stuckey might be undervalued right now given his recent shooting slump, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a lousy fit alongside Wall. Our SG simply must be able to shoot.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1171 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:23 pm

nate33 wrote:Stuckey might be undervalued right now given his recent shooting slump, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a lousy fit alongside Wall. Our SG simply must be able to shoot.


Wall may miss the season. I think I might trade Wall were I a GM. Stuckey, (and I read another website for this idea--sorry I didn't bookmark it to quote the source), is ideally a future backup at either PG or SG. For this season I could see him playing with Price or Beal.

You're right, nate, Stuckey at SG can't shoot and neither can Wall at PG. Regardless, I would pair them together because they are great passers and elite athletes.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1172 » by payitforward » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:55 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
nate33 wrote:Stuckey might be undervalued right now given his recent shooting slump, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a lousy fit alongside Wall. Our SG simply must be able to shoot.


Wall may miss the season. I think I might trade Wall were I a GM. Stuckey, (and I read another website for this idea--sorry I didn't bookmark it to quote the source), is ideally a future backup at either PG or SG. For this season I could see him playing with Price or Beal.

You're right, nate, Stuckey at SG can't shoot and neither can Wall at PG. Regardless, I would pair them together because they are great passers and elite athletes.

More moving deck chairs around on the Titanic....
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1173 » by Dat2U » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:33 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
nate33 wrote:Stuckey might be undervalued right now given his recent shooting slump, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a lousy fit alongside Wall. Our SG simply must be able to shoot.


Wall may miss the season. I think I might trade Wall were I a GM. Stuckey, (and I read another website for this idea--sorry I didn't bookmark it to quote the source), is ideally a future backup at either PG or SG. For this season I could see him playing with Price or Beal.

You're right, nate, Stuckey at SG can't shoot and neither can Wall at PG. Regardless, I would pair them together because they are great passers and elite athletes.



You want Stuckey, but you want to trade Wall as well. I don't get it. If you don't like Wall, why in the world would you want a less talented, non PG version of Wall that can't shoot either?

And they certainly can't play together. Not with non-shooting options at the 3, 4 & 5. I do see us eventually needing a 3rd guard in the future behind Wall & Beal, but that guard needs to be a shooter as well.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1174 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:44 pm

Dat2U wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
nate33 wrote:Stuckey might be undervalued right now given his recent shooting slump, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a lousy fit alongside Wall. Our SG simply must be able to shoot.


Wall may miss the season. I think I might trade Wall were I a GM. Stuckey, (and I read another website for this idea--sorry I didn't bookmark it to quote the source), is ideally a future backup at either PG or SG. For this season I could see him playing with Price or Beal.

You're right, nate, Stuckey at SG can't shoot and neither can Wall at PG. Regardless, I would pair them together because they are great passers and elite athletes.



You want Stuckey, but you want to trade Wall as well. I don't get it. If you don't like Wall, why in the world would you want a less talented, non PG version of Wall that can't shoot either?

And they certainly can't play together. Not with non-shooting options at the 3, 4 & 5. I do see us eventually needing a 3rd guard in the future behind Wall & Beal, but that guard needs to be a shooter as well.


payitforward sort of described the idea accurately, Dat, as shuffling the deck chairs. Instead of considering this as a deal for Rodney Stuckey, who I am ambivalent towards; think about the rest of the deal:

1. Either Austin Daye or Khris Middleton could be good. Middleton was good in limited minutes in summer league. Either player could end up a starter at SF (Trivia: Middleton played for Terps coach, Mark Turgeon at Tx A&M.)

2. Taking away Ariza and Crawford is addition by subtraction IMO. At the very least, Ariza's gone from the logjam at SF and that would give Webster, Singleton, and Martin an open competition for minutes.

3. Stuckey is the best player in the deal. If he returns to form, he can be an 18 PER player. You might not like his shooting but the idea is to add talent. I could see Stuckey as Wall's backup or part of a future trade. What Washington lacks is athletic talent. Stuckey would be an upgrade over Price or Crawford.


My rationale for this idea stems from my thought that Crawford and Ariza both are liabilities. Austin Daye is a 6'11" outside threat. Middleton is 21 years old. There is very little risk in this deal but the potential of reward from Middleton.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1175 » by Zonkerbl » Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:22 pm

The weird thing is, according to Kevin's analysis, Trevor has actually been our very best player so far. Just none of it is reflected in the "offensive efficiency" portion of the metric, iirc.

http://broomonthewarpath.sportsblog.com ... e_the.html

"Trevor Ariza is the team's most productive player so far?! Yeah, I gulped when I saw that myself. Then I looked at the numbers. Ariza's shooting is atrocious, but there's more to the game than shooting. Adjusted for pace, Ariza is a shade below average in rebounding, and is better than average in assists, steals, blocks, turnovers and fouls. In other words, he does a lot of stuff well. I'd expect his overall rating to moderate as his extremely high steal rate (4.5 pace adjusted steals per 36 minutes) comes down."
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1176 » by LyricalRico » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:13 pm

Posted this about a week ago.

LyricalRico wrote:Okafor+Crawford to DET for Stuckey+Prince? Saves the Pistons some longterm money and gives the Wiz a combo guard that could be a good compliment to Wall/Beal. Prince also helps us at SF.

Seraphin/Vesely
Nene/Booker/Singleton
Prince/Webster/Ariza
Beal/Stuckey
Wall/Stuckey
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1177 » by Dat2U » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:36 pm

I hope Ariza keeps it up. Build that trade value!

CCJ, your right in the point that Stuckey is better than anything else we have outside of the potential of Wall/Beal. To get him on the cheap (and dumping Ariza/Craw would be nice), rehab his value as another potential trade chip down the line... makes a lot sense. You sold me.

As far as trades go, I am at the point that no one is untouchable. Even Wall. Not actively pursuing a deal but at least I'm willing to listen with him. When your this bad, there's no reason why anyone should be untouchable.

If I was GM and taking over this mess, I'd be in ultra aggressive cap clearing mode right now. Get Nene back on the court and producing and trade him to the first buyer, even with assets if necessary. Sell off a Vesely or Booker to dump Okafor if possible. Who wants Ariza & Singleton for an expiring?

All I would care about is Wall, Beal and possibly Seraphin. Although if Seraphin helps move Nene that would be very tempting, almost too tempting to pass up. We'd also have a top 5 2013 pick coming. If I have a healthy Wall (no rush in having him return), an improving Beal, a top 5 pick and a ton of cap room (Nene, Okafor, Ariza gone) going into the 2013 off-season I'd very happy. I would have undid all of Grunfeld's damage in one year. :lol:
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1178 » by nate33 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:29 pm

What would be the rationale for acquiring cap room? Is there anyone in particular you are eyeing as a free agent? If not, then I suggest retaining Nene for longer and hoping he eventually gets fully healthy and improves his trade value.

If we're talking about a rebuild here, then I think a better option would be to target Summer 2014 when Okafor and Ariza come off the books. We can try to move Booker and Crawford by then (since we wouldn't be planning on resigning them) and see if Nene's trade value peaks sometime in the next two seasons.

The real question is: what to do with Seraphin and Wall. By 2014, we probably wouldn't have enough talent for it to make sense to resign both guys to a very large deal. Seraphin might not cost much, but Wall will probably cost the max. Do we pay him that? If not, then we should look to move him immediately.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1179 » by Nivek » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:35 pm

At this point, we don't have enough information to make a decent decision on whether or not Wall should get the max in 2014. Based on what he's done in his first two seasons -- no. It would be a preposterously bad decision. If he comes back with an improved jumper and with reduced turnovers -- he could well be worth a max salary.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1180 » by Dat2U » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:12 pm

nate33 wrote:What would be the rationale for acquiring cap room? Is there anyone in particular you are eyeing as a free agent? If not, then I suggest retaining Nene for longer and hoping he eventually gets fully healthy and improves his trade value.

If we're talking about a rebuild here, then I think a better option would be to target Summer 2014 when Okafor and Ariza come off the books. We can try to move Booker and Crawford by then (since we wouldn't be planning on resigning them) and see if Nene's trade value peaks sometime in the next two seasons.

The real question is: what to do with Seraphin and Wall. By 2014, we probably wouldn't have enough talent for it to make sense to resign both guys to a very large deal. Seraphin might not cost much, but Wall will probably cost the max. Do we pay him that? If not, then we should look to move him immediately.


1. Dwight Howard
2. I believe Nene is damaged goods and will never be fully healthy
3. 2014 could be an option as well, but cap room in 2013 allows for flexibility in acquiring additional assets (picks, BOYD deals)
4. I haven't seen enough evidence on Seraphin yet to truly form an opinion about being an invaluable piece.
5. Wall about $10 mil per based on what I've seen thus far but i suspect in time he'll improve and will be able to command more when the time comes to address his situation.

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