Official Trade Thread: Part 3

[Dragic13]

I think we should sell all our draft picks for cash then use that money on "entertainment" promos to fill up our stadium on national televised game days.

[pidi]

man its tuff, but we wanted a fresh start and it seemed promisisng when we signed beasley, scola and dragic -
we are sucking and realy should start to tank - let´s go for the last place...

[YFZblu]

I'm sort of astonished that fans are so bummed out by the Suns play. This is a 30-win team at best on paper. They were never going to be any good. Winning games consistently in the NBA takes a certain level of talent, and the Suns do not have that.

[rsavaj]

I'm sort of astonished that fans are so bummed out by the Suns play. This is a 30-win team at best on paper. They were never going to be any good. Winning games consistently in the NBA takes a certain level of talent, and the Suns do not have that.

I feel the same way, but I think about half of the board feels as though this team is a playoff-caliber squad that is being hindered by coaching. If they make a coaching change and the team responds positively, I guess that'll solve that mystery.

[RunDogGun]

I'm sort of astonished that fans are so bummed out by the Suns play. This is a 30-win team at best on paper. They were never going to be any good. Winning games consistently in the NBA takes a certain level of talent, and the Suns do not have that.

I feel the same way, but I think about half of the board feels as though this team is a playoff-caliber squad that is being hindered by coaching. If they make a coaching change and the team responds positively, I guess that'll solve that mystery.

I don't know what caliber team we have, but each of them have had decent amount of success at times. I don't know if they are being hindered by the coach, I just don't like how and when said coach is using them, but we know that many of the players have played better in the past.

I look at it this way, each guy is a tool in your bag, each has a purpose. Often I see Gentry using a hammer to screw in something.

[phrazbit]

I don't know what caliber team we have, but each of them have had decent amount of success at times. I don't know if they are being hindered by the coach, I just don't like how and when said coach is using them, but we know that many of the players have played better in the past.

I look at it this way, each guy is a tool in your bag, each has a purpose. Often I see Gentry using a hammer to screw in something.

Have these guys had a decent amount of success? Outside of Jermaine O'Neal (who is old and injured) no one on this team has even been more than a role player, and most of them have been role players on bad teams. The only guy whos lack of production came as a surprise so far is Dudley, but he is starting to pick it up. The rest of the guys on this team are playing at a levels that should have been expected and we actually have a few (Tucker, Telfair) who have been playing surprisingly well.

[Dragic13]

Not rly sure where to put this but I have been thinking lately about a line-up change:

Telfair/Marshall
Dragic/Dudley
Beasley/Tucker
Morris/Scola
Gortat/O'Neal

Telfair is a good ball handler, can knock down a shot in the PnR, can pass the ball, and above all he can stop other (High caliber) PGs with his defense.

Dragic can take on the "Harden" role like he is playing with the rockets. Turn Dragic into a scoring machine who can handle the ball and dish out assists.

Marshall will get minutes to develop his game and run with a very good back-up squad.

I think this line-up could be veryyyy good. (Anything is better than Brown)

[RunDogGun]

I don't know what caliber team we have, but each of them have had decent amount of success at times. I don't know if they are being hindered by the coach, I just don't like how and when said coach is using them, but we know that many of the players have played better in the past.

I look at it this way, each guy is a tool in your bag, each has a purpose. Often I see Gentry using a hammer to screw in something.

Have these guys had a decent amount of success? Outside of Jermaine O'Neal (who is old and injured) no one on this team has even been more than a role player, and most of them have been role players on bad teams. The only guy whos lack of production came as a surprise so far is Dudley, but he is starting to pick it up. The rest of the guys on this team are playing at a levels that should have been expected and we actually have a few (Tucker, Telfair) who have been playing surprisingly well.

Why does decent amount of success equal superstar? Outside of a few guys on each team, all the rest of the guys are considered role players. As we saw from Denver, you can have a whole team of role players play well with each other. Basketball is all about each player playing their role on the team. When each guy does this, the team is greater than the sum of its parts. Before this season started, I took each guys career stats from their splits of whether they started or came off the bench, and we really don't have a terrible team like many keep saying. Right now, they just aren't motivated, and clearly don't have a good sense of how this team is directed. Scola, when starting for us, was a 14.5/8 guy, and he gets demoted, but Beas stays in, with worse stats and consistency.

I don't know about you, but for the past decade, the "projections" on our team have been under what they have produced. We just need the right system and groupings. Will it make us champs? No, but that wasn't what I asked for. But if we can play at a high energy level, and get the guys to play unselfish ball, I don't see why we couldn't make the playoffs, and then who knows from there.

[phrazbit]

Why does decent amount of success equal superstar? Outside of a few guys on each team, all the rest of the guys are considered role players. As we saw from Denver, you can have a whole team of role players play well with each other. Basketball is all about each player playing their role on the team. When each guy does this, the team is greater than the sum of its parts. Before this season started, I took each guys career stats from their splits of whether they started or came off the bench, and we really don't have a terrible team like many keep saying. Right now, they just aren't motivated, and clearly don't have a good sense of how this team is directed. Scola, when starting for us, was a 14.5/8 guy, and he gets demoted, but Beas stays in, with worse stats and consistency.

I don't know about you, but for the past decade, the "projections" on our team have been under what they have produced. We just need the right system and groupings. Will it make us champs? No, but that wasn't what I asked for. But if we can play at a high energy level, and get the guys to play unselfish ball, I don't see why we couldn't make the playoffs, and then who knows from there.

I dont think they need to be superstars, but we dont even have guys who have been STARTERS on a playoff team outside of Scola, and Scola is 32 and coming off the worst year of his career. Most of these guys have spent their careers playing small roles on bad teams. I dont see how lumping a team together of those parts equates to playoff potential.

Again, Denver has multiple players that are better than anyone on our entire team. We might have depth but we cant play 10 guys at once. The talent dropoff from our starters to our bench is minimal, but its largely because we dont have any stand out players. And I am not talking about a superstar, we dont have anyone on the team who we can count on to be consistently above average from one game to the next. Looking around the Western Conference I think its very hard to make an argument where the Suns are not the least talent roster of the bunch.

[rsavaj]

Here's a topical one..

Gortat, Wes Johnson to ATL
Smith, Frye to LAL
Gasol and change to PHX

Not that I have anything against Gasol, but I actually think that trade improves the Lakers the most(Smith next to Howard and Nash is D'Antoni's wet dream), so...I'mma have to decline.

I wonder how Gasol would fit in here anyways...that would be an interesting look. Doesn't make much sense to trade for him unless we have another move up our sleeve, because getting Gasol is clearly a "win-now" move.

[RunDogGun]

Again, I still don't understand how the "lack of talent" argument explains us losing winnable games. I'm not expecting to win every game, but the way the guys have been used or not used is costing us games, regardless of their star power. Brown taking the last shot instead of Goran, Gortat sitting the whole fourth after having a good third quarter, and the list goes on. If these players aren't trust worthy, why the heck play ten guys to eleven guys each game. Overall, we have a very young team.

And I still don't see the argument of Blabby demanding the team to play bad players to placate their "golden boy" FA choices. They are not dumb enough to think that losing games is helping them or the team. Gentry will still get paid if he gets fired, and I don't think anyone thinks he will be coaching here next season, so there is no reason for him to stay and do whatever Blabby supposedly wants.

Sorry, this should bein the Gentry thread, I'll respond next time through that thread.

[grumpysaddle]

Here's a topical one..

Gortat, Wes Johnson to ATL
Smith, Frye to LAL
Gasol and change to PHX

This is the kind of trade that the Lakers consistently rape people on. They get way better, while the other teams either stay the same, or get worse.

[sunskerr]

Again, I still don't understand how the "lack of talent" argument explains us losing winnable games.

Because we don't have a lot of talent? How hard is that to grasp? Why is this so damn hard for you to grasp that you have to write a whole paragraph following that statement passing the blame for our players' lack of skills onto the coach. Look, if it was so easy as playing guys "the right way" as you say = winning, we would have done it already. And I know there is this sort of prevalent macho thought that the leader always takes the blame. But in reality we have no good shooting guard, our small forward sucks and our better PF is on the bench (I'll admit I don't like this rotation change).

I'm not going to say we need a superstar (but that would be nice). In fact I think our best shot to at least be talked about is like Memphis or Denver, although there are other fan bases who have said Phoenix is a free agent destination. There are clearly more pressing matters than the coach, so...

act like it

damn

[Brandon-Clyde]

Just a question and did not think it worthy of it's own thread. What if any protection was put on the draft picks that the Suns received in the Steve Nash trade? If the Lakers continue to play poorly you guys may have gotten an amazing return for a player you were going to lose one way or another. You may even end up with a lottery pick or two for him

[carey]

Just a question and did not think it worthy of it's own thread. What if any protection was put on the draft picks that the Suns received in the Steve Nash trade? If the Lakers continue to play poorly you guys may have gotten an amazing return for a player you were going to lose one way or another. You may even end up with a lottery pick or two for him

No matter what we're not getting the Lakers own first rounder this year. We'll be getting the Heat's first rounder that they owe the Lakers. That pick is going to be among the bottom 2 or 3 in the 1st round, so you can stop being excited about it.

[GrantHill]

Just a question and did not think it worthy of it's own thread. What if any protection was put on the draft picks that the Suns received in the Steve Nash trade? If the Lakers continue to play poorly you guys may have gotten an amazing return for a player you were going to lose one way or another. You may even end up with a lottery pick or two for him

No matter what we're not getting the Lakers own first rounder this year. We'll be getting the Heat's first rounder that they owe the Lakers. That pick is going to be among the bottom 2 or 3 in the 1st round, so you can stop being excited about it.

Well, we are going to get the LAL pick if it's in the lottery. So there's hope.

[RunDogGun]

Again, I still don't understand how the "lack of talent" argument explains us losing winnable games.

Because we don't have a lot of talent? How hard is that to grasp? Why is this so damn hard for you to grasp that you have to write a whole paragraph following that statement passing the blame for our players' lack of skills onto the coach. Look, if it was so easy as playing guys "the right way" as you say = winning, we would have done it already. And I know there is this sort of prevalent macho thought that the leader always takes the blame. But in reality we have no good shooting guard, our small forward sucks and our better PF is on the bench (I'll admit I don't like this rotation change).

I'm not going to say we need a superstar (but that would be nice). In fact I think our best shot to at least be talked about is like Memphis or Denver, although there are other fan bases who have said Phoenix is a free agent destination. There are clearly more pressing matters than the coach, so...

act like it

damn

Still doesn't explain sitting Goran so long in the fourth, and sometimes sitting Gortat all of the fourth, even after having a good third quarter. I accept that we don't have the best players in the league, I think we all understand this. But this team has been in many games, and I don't feel that we have lost those winnable games due to them. I total understand when we lose a game because none of our guys step up, and Gentry tried all of his players.

Our players don't lack skills, that is quite silly to say. We have guys who can score, we have guys that can defend, they may not be the same guy, but that is where the balance comes into play. What you don't do, is put Brown and Beas together, when our perimeter defense is terrible, and a huge reason we get so far behind. Moreover, you can't give guys with lower Bball IQs a green light to shoot. Lower guys either need very strong coaching, or a system that happens to fit their skills. We have neither of those. But thanks for the condescending comments that does not explain why Gentry allows winnable games go to the other team due to his poor rotations.

[RunDogGun]

Just a question and did not think it worthy of it's own thread. What if any protection was put on the draft picks that the Suns received in the Steve Nash trade? If the Lakers continue to play poorly you guys may have gotten an amazing return for a player you were going to lose one way or another. You may even end up with a lottery pick or two for him

No matter what we're not getting the Lakers own first rounder this year. We'll be getting the Heat's first rounder that they owe the Lakers. That pick is going to be among the bottom 2 or 3 in the 1st round, so you can stop being excited about it.

Well, we are going to get the LAL pick if it's in the lottery. So there's hope.

Honestly, this would be the coolest thing of the season. Not only because we could get another lotto pick, but I do enjoy watching the Lakers lose.

[thamadkant]

No matter what we're not getting the Lakers own first rounder this year. We'll be getting the Heat's first rounder that they owe the Lakers. That pick is going to be among the bottom 2 or 3 in the 1st round, so you can stop being excited about it.

Well, we are going to get the LAL pick if it's in the lottery. So there's hope.

I just googled it.

Now correct me if not correct but my understanding is...
Suns receive WORST first pick of Lakers/Heat.

Where is a better explanation showing Suns get Lakers pick if lottery?
I thought the pick was top 14 protected also...

So if Lakers get pick 15, Heat gets pick 28... Lakers own the Heat pick and since its worse than pick 15... They send pick 28 to the Suns.

[RunDogGun]

No matter what we're not getting the Lakers own first rounder this year. We'll be getting the Heat's first rounder that they owe the Lakers. That pick is going to be among the bottom 2 or 3 in the 1st round, so you can stop being excited about it.

Well, we are going to get the LAL pick if it's in the lottery. So there's hope.

I just googled it.

Now correct me if not correct but my understanding is...
Suns receive WORST first pick of Lakers/Heat.

Where is a better explanation showing Suns get Lakers pick if lottery?
I thought the pick was top 14 protected also...

So if Lakers get pick 15, Heat gets pick 28... Lakers own the Heat pick and since its worse than pick 15... They send pick 28 to the Suns.

I asked the question a few weeks ago asking what picks we got, and the wording was odd. In the same paragraph where it said it was a top 14 protected, and it said we would get the worse between LAL and the Heat, at the end it said if the LAL pick lands within the top fourteen picks, it would automatically go to the Suns. I forgot what page it was on, possibly somewhere within this thread.