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Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Booker-

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Re: Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Book 

Post#41 » by Nivek » Wed Dec 5, 2012 2:28 pm

One of the overlooked hazards of being a basketball star at a young age: All the groupies reduce the need to work on hand speed.
"A lot of what we call talent is the desire to practice."
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Re: Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Book 

Post#42 » by tontoz » Wed Dec 5, 2012 4:30 pm

Beal should spend 2 hours a day doing backwards hopsteps and Olympic cleans to improve his agility and strength. He should spend another 3 hours working with an advanced low to the ground dribble coach.

It is only 5 hours out of 24, not too much to ask.
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Re: Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Book 

Post#43 » by BarnabyJones » Wed Dec 5, 2012 8:43 pm

Nivek wrote:A whole week!

I've seen some improvement in his follicular agility, though. He'd do better with a Hall of Fame follicular agility specialist, of course. Who do you recommend, WizDynasty?


:lol:
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Re: Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Book 

Post#44 » by Hawaii » Thu Dec 6, 2012 12:49 pm

Wall - If we don't start succeeding, or showing signs of succeeding, the Great Wall of Chinatown will crumble, and he will leave town first opportunity. Just about anywhere would be greener pastures than Washington, and I fear that our losing basketball culture not only wears on his skills, but his mindstate too...if you convince yourself there's no chance you're gonna win, then there's no way to win.

Beal - Definitely needs to practice, and they should go out and get some retired vet players to work with him.

Craw - One of the bright spots on the team, and he continues to impress. A bit inconsistent, but at least he's out there hustling.

Vesely - A bad draft pick from the beginning, anyone could have called that one. I really hope we stray away from the Euro projects for awhile.

Ariza - I like him when he's good, hate him when he's bad. He's streaky...been that way since he left LA.

Booker - I haven't heard much from him this year, I think his game has taken a step back. But, I wouldn't give up on him. He's another guy that I'd like to have around for awhile.
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Re: Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Book 

Post#45 » by nate33 » Thu Dec 6, 2012 2:41 pm

Hawaii wrote:Wall - If we don't start succeeding, or showing signs of succeeding, the Great Wall of Chinatown will crumble, and he will leave town first opportunity. Just about anywhere would be greener pastures than Washington.

Wall isn't going anywhere. He's locked up on his rookie deal until Summer 2014 and he's a restricted free agent after that and we will match all offers. The only way he leaves before 2017 is if he opts out of signing a long term deal in 2014 (which would start at $14M a year) and instead chose to take the qualifying offer of 1 year, $9.6M. He'd be leaving $5M on the table plus set himself back a year on the start of his next max contract (costing him about $1M a year) and his next contract could only have 4.5% raises rather than 7.5% raises.

All told, the decision to opt out would cost him a total of $11M over 5 years and add significant risk because he could get hurt during that qualifying offer season and ruin his chances of getting a max contract. Also, the new team that signs him would have to be a team with $14M in cap room. Usually, only bad teams have that kind of cap room. It's not like Wall will have the opportunity to join the Heat or Thunder.
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Re: Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Book 

Post#46 » by GhostsOfGil » Thu Dec 6, 2012 2:42 pm

Hawaii wrote:Wall - If we don't start succeeding, or showing signs of succeeding, the Great Wall of Chinatown will crumble, and he will leave town first opportunity.

Wall is will be a restricted FA so the only way he bolts, is if he demands a trade.

Hawaii wrote:Beal - Definitely needs to practice, and they should go out and get some retired vet players to work with him.

You mean like Sam Cassell?

Hawaii wrote:Craw - One of the bright spots on the team, and he continues to impress. A bit inconsistent, but at least he's out there hustling.

Vesely - A bad draft pick from the beginning, anyone could have called that one. I really hope we stray away from the Euro projects for awhile.

Ariza - I like him when he's good, hate him when he's bad. He's streaky...been that way since he left LA.

Agreed
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Re: Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Book 

Post#47 » by WizarDynasty » Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:36 am

I would like to see much more improvement in singleton's dribbling skills. I thought it looked better but recently it looks like he has taken a step back.
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Re: Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Book 

Post#48 » by Knighthonor » Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:47 am

I want Singleton to work on his Dribble and shot from the 3.

Beal to work on his Dribble and shot from the 3 and 2, as well as driving.

Wall, I want to work on his shot.

Crawford, has a unique way of shooting. I rather he perfect it, rather than change it. Could make him a star player. also work on his drive and passing game, like a Kyrie Irvin or something.

Jan, I want to work on his Dribble, FT, and shooting in general. Also need to work on him driving the basket under pressure.

Booker should work on his rebounding, and shooting.

KS I want to work on driving the basket, while also perfecting his shot making, and working on his passing game.
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Re: Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Book 

Post#49 » by WizarDynasty » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:59 pm

same issue comes up over and over again player development and who is suppose to be in charge of that department. Tapscott and by extension Grunfeld. TeD needs to bring in a world class manager. Newman can't run the organization by himself, he is only one person.

the problem isn't the roster, it's the people managing the roster. They have wasted years with ineffective and unaccountable skills improvement program. Just like Blatche and knuckleheads were released, so should the grunfeld management team be sent on their way and replaced with as many san antonio people as possible.
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Re: Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Book 

Post#50 » by pancakes3 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:36 pm

Real life is not a video game and you can't upgrade players just by beating a bunch of mini-games. Furthermore, these are grown ass men with guaranteed contracts that you can't just send into a corner and tell them to dribble between their legs for 4 hrs a day, 6 days a week. Lastly, THESE ARE GROWN ASS MEN. The time for developing skills was years ago when they were 12. If they don't know how to dribble by now, they ain't gonna learn now. The most you can hope for is refining the skills they have. A good FT shooter becomes a great one. You can't turn Dwight into a 90% shooter no matter how much time and effort you put in. That ship has sailed.

So please. Spare us your video game GMing.
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Re: Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Book 

Post#51 » by WizarDynasty » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:25 pm

Your young players are only as good as the player developmental coach ranking relative to the rest of the league.

The whole reason Grunfeld traded away the 5th pick a few years ago, is because he already acknowledges that player development isn't the Washington's strength.
Get a GM along with his associated management team that ranks in the top percentile as far a player development proven results.
Has anyone ever done a study that tracks which GM management team has produced the best results with young unproven talent over the last 10 years?
I look at a guy like Holiday in philadelphia, his value has almost quadrupled in value. Thaddeus Young tripled in value.
NOt one player has doubled in value here in washington.
Philadelphia 76ers is a perfect example of what the washington wizards are not in terms of player development.
i don't believe in the notion -- that philadelphia players are of completely different breed than Washington players and i do believe that philadelphia GM and management (doung collins is part of the management team) team has 10 times better player development program relative the wizards.
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Re: Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Book 

Post#52 » by WizarDynasty » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:37 pm

Your young players are only as good as the player developmental coach ranking relative to the rest of the league.

The whole reason Grunfeld traded away the 5th pick a few years ago, is because he already acknowledges that player development isn't the Washington's strength.
Get a GM along with his associated management team that ranks in the top percentile as far a player development proven results.
Has anyone ever done a study that tracks which GM management team has produced the best results with young unproven talent over the last 10 years?
I look at a guy like Holiday in philadelphia, his value has almost quadrupled in value. Thaddeus Young tripled in value.
NOt one player has doubled in value here in washington.
Philadelphia 76ers is a perfect example of what the washington wizards are not in terms of player development.
i don't believe in the notion -- that philadelphia players are of completely different breed than Washington players and i do believe that philadelphia GM and management (doung collins is part of the management team) team has 10 times better player development program relative the wizards.

the problem with the wizards is that leonsis has not recognized that his GM and his management don't rank in the top percentile as far as player development yet the wizards futures is heavily connected to major strides in oung player development. The management team has shown you over the last 10 years that they rank in the bottom percentile as far as player development yet Leonsis has used his billions of dollars to figure out what management team ranks in the top percentile for young player development in the last 10 years and has Leonsis after finding out this information---begin to pluck away the management team piece by piece.
grunfeld and management team don't have the track record for young player development and the future of this team is based on "expert top percentile" young player development.

Leonsis has not shown us through his action that he is willing to surround our young talent with "top percentile player development management team".
Grunfeld and his management team "Whitman and Saunders" ranked in bottom 10 percentile. It just amazes me that he has this lowly ranked management team infecting the culture of his life investment. I would think Leonsis wants to surround his most valuable asset--young players on this team--with top percentile player management team...that has a proven track record for player development in the last 10 years.

Grundfeld and his management team have absolutely zero track record for success. None of his late picks are being considered for all star selection and aren't even close. No young free agents have come here, and got significantly better or better yet transformed into huge trade assets. He brings in Nene who i like but Nene isn't putting up allstar numbers this years or dominating games. AGain, the team's future is based on young player development and if they don't develop significantly, expect alot more 3-22 records. Singleton, Vesely, Mack, Booker, Seraphin, Martin, Crawford --- that's six young players he has brought in and none of them is being remotely considered for an allstar selection. McGee, Blatche, and Young...a total of nine players that washington has used draft picks on and none of them has ever...ever been considered for an allstar selection. Did they have the talent to be if they had been molded correctly...definitely....but Grunfeld and his management team ranked in the bottom percentile as far as player development in the league and management team includes the coach.
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Re: Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Book 

Post#53 » by tontoz » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:52 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:I look at a guy like Holiday in philadelphia, his value has almost quadrupled in value. Thaddeus Young tripled in value.
NOt one player has doubled in value here in washington.



Ummm.... where are you getting these player values from, WizDsbunghole.com?
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Re: Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Book 

Post#54 » by WizarDynasty » Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:44 pm

Holiday was picked 17th...we picked Foye and Miller---with absolutely zero value remaining in the franchise from that transaction.
Holiday is statistically one of the top point guards in the league. a young player that was dramatically improved based on gm and his management teams player development program.
Thad Young---12th and Nick young picked 16th-- Wiz have absolutely zero value remaining in the franchise from that transaction
T.Young one the best six men in the league dramatically improved based on gm and his management team's player development program and statistically is one of the best six en in the league.
Not one our young unproven players has ever been considered in the top third of his position.
the only time we have ever had a top player is when we brought that player in from another organization. No player outside of Arenas that we have brought in has ever gotten better after being in Washington and look what happen to arenas due to the Grunfeld management team and player development.

To me the problem ends when grunfeld management team is gone and replaced with a management team with a top third performance record over the last 19 years. I clearly don't have the resources to study the management teams of 32 nba franchises but i also am not getting a share of the profits if i was provide this information. Still, logically it makes sense that someone who does benefit profit wise from Wizard successful would care about bringing in a top third performing management team in regards to young player development and developing raw talent into top ranked players.
Getting a top five pick and not having the right management team in place causes longterm grief among loyal season to season fans. Harden should have been acquired if what leonsis said was true, considering his management team currently outside of newman ranks in bottom third of the league and harden is an already developed young talent.
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Re: Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Book 

Post#55 » by sashae » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:59 pm

Grizzlies just shipped Tony Wroten down. I wish I understood the teams lack of willingness to do the same with players like Vesely who so clearly need it.
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Re: Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Book 

Post#56 » by LyricalRico » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:58 pm

^ I was thinking the same thing. They obviously must see the D-League as having some value because they've been willing to sign players from there. But for some reason, they refuse to believe it could help anybody already on the roster. Have they EVER sent anybody down to the D-League, except maybe PJR? And wasn't Ted supposed to change that?
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Re: Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Book 

Post#57 » by DMVleGeND » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:10 pm

LyricalRico wrote:^ I was thinking the same thing. They obviously must see the D-League as having some value because they've been willing to sign players from there. But for some reason, they refuse to believe it could help anybody already on the roster. Have they EVER sent anybody down to the D-League, except maybe PJR? And wasn't Ted supposed to change that?


The problem is that many of our recent draft picks like Seraphin and Vesely were promised that they'd never be sent down to the D-League.
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Re: Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Book 

Post#58 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:26 pm

pancakes3 wrote:Real life is not a video game and you can't upgrade players just by beating a bunch of mini-games. Furthermore, these are grown ass men with guaranteed contracts that you can't just send into a corner and tell them to dribble between their legs for 4 hrs a day, 6 days a week. Lastly, THESE ARE GROWN ASS MEN. The time for developing skills was years ago when they were 12. If they don't know how to dribble by now, they ain't gonna learn now. The most you can hope for is refining the skills they have. A good FT shooter becomes a great one. You can't turn Dwight into a 90% shooter no matter how much time and effort you put in. That ship has sailed.

So please. Spare us your video game GMing.


Right you are!

I went to an outdoor court and worked on dribbling and shooting with my 12-year old just yesterday morning, at around 6-6:30 AM. My son would probably just take random shots, mostly threes or play to whatever feels comfortable if I didn't help him out with guided practice (not too intense). After our workout consisting of some dribbling low with left and right hand and some shooting with both hands, and also practicing free throws; we played HORSE. (I start with R and play him best out of three.) I am probably more enthused than he is when we practice because my dad didn't play basketball and I never learned fundamentals at an early age.

pancakes, what you said is true. Guys missed their best window of opportunity to learn fundamentals. That was long before they get to the NBA with all the travel, long season, and high-level competition. They're under duress and older, at a time when it's tougher and tougher to learn some things.

I think with all the technology available, a shooting coach should be able to tell why each player misses shots and how best to tailor shot mechanics to improve that player--no matter how old the player is. All the player should have to do is devote a certain amount of time getting the mechanics and muscle memory right to show some mastery. That should show in games with enough practice.
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Re: Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Book 

Post#59 » by Mickstix » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:31 pm

DMVleGeND wrote:The problem is that many of our recent draft picks like Seraphin and Vesely were promised that they'd never be sent down to the D-League.


Really? The #6 overall draft pick has a conversation about being sent to the D-L, before signing? Something wrong with that picture from the get go..
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Re: Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Book 

Post#60 » by Nivek » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:28 pm

pancakes point is exactly correct. The Wizards front office has bought into the delusion that they can pick great athletes who lack basketball skills and then watch those athletes become great players when they "develop" basketball skills. The problem with this thinking is that it ignores how humans develop skill at...well...anything.

There is one and only one way to develop a skill, and that's by practicing. Wanna be world class at something, it takes 10,000 hours to reach that level of mastery. For most world class performers, that "mastery" is constructed in childhood and adolescence. This is because a) this is when the brain is most receptive to developing the neural pathways that are expressed as "skill", and b) because this is when humans have time to devote to the obsessive practice of a skill while others are paying the bills.

A guy like Vesely (or Wall or whoever) can, theoretically, develop a skill like a jumper in their early 20s. But, it's harder because the brain's plasticity isn't what it was in the early teens, because there are bad habits already learned that must be unlearned and replaced, and because there's the time issue.

Before picking a guy who's a terrific athlete but lacks skill, it would be important to find out why he hasn't developed the skill to this point. And you'd need to make a determination for whether that player has the work ethic to put in the extra time necessary to build that skill. For a guy like Vesely -- who grew up in a system designed to teach those skills...not having a jumper or even the ability to shoot free throws would be a red flag. So then you might look for some other basketball-related area where he's demonstrated work ethic to see if maybe he'd apply that willingness to work on those deficient skills. Does he have a well-developed body? Is he strong? If not...what has he been working on?

Of course, this kind of conversation is ultimately pointless when it comes to the Wizards. Ted blogged a few weeks ago that Vesely is "fundamentally sound." Which, I'm guessing is something the front office has told him. Which would be indication that the team's "brain trust" literally has no idea what they're seeing when they're scouting.
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