Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - 02/06/13)

[deneem4]

Random Question:

If you knew you could get both Cousins and Gay, but you'd have to give up 2013's first and Nene...would you do it?

deneem4 posted this trade on the Memphis board: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b9954b2

What is the most you'd give up for both of these players?

Everything and everybody but beal and wall....that 4 core lineup is like the thunder evenly distributed...hell il start veseley with those 4 guessing no one will want him...

[tontoz]

Memphis would surely prefer Okafor to Nene because of the length of Nene's contract. I would guess Okafor/Webster is the offer.

[GhostsOfGil]

Memphis would surely prefer Okafor to Nene because of the length of Nene's contract. I would guess Okafor/Webster is the offer.

Okafor Singleton and a 2nd round pick. I'd say pull the trigger.

[nate33]

Ric Bucher tweeted wizards made an offer for Rudy....and it was a good one...what possibly could it be?

Just saw that and it scared the sht out of me

I'm certain we didn't give up Wall or Beal. I can live with an offer based on Okafor and/or Ariza plus minor filler (Crawford, Booker, Vesely, Singleton). I won't be happy about it, but I can at least see the logic from a positional standpoint. It's a typical EG move. Go for the big name even though he isn't nearly as productive as his reputation.

I will freak out if we gave up a future 1st to make it happen.

I can only hope that Bucher considers it a "good one" because we are giving up Vesely, and Bucher still considers Vesely to be a decent prospect. Something like Crawford + Ariza + Vesely works. It saves Memphis about $6M immediately, gives them a decent veteran who will fit for them at SF, and it gives them a couple of cheap role players who add depth.

My guess is that we offer something like that, only we included a future 1st.

[deneem4]

What about

I think this is probably the most evenly distributed scenario
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cxuzqk9

All teams get exactly what they want...and it's not outlandish as lin getting traded
I pick nene because the grizzlies might want to keep that lowpost attacker and nene and zach game is pretty much the same and nene trade value will hold if grizz decide to move him during off season

Kings get some defense and gives their younger guards a chance with a vet big man and get rid of salmons contract
Bucks get the perfect compliment to Jennings...and crawford adds that push of the bench
Grizzlies get the perfect compliment to their defensive system in Monta and basically get a slight cheaper zach replacement. ..and salmons who shoots better from beyond the arc then rudy

Heres okafor moving instead
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=czp3hdr

And I wouldnt give up veseley he's very passionate and athletic...his skill set is **** but he's young and hustles...il try to find him a good trainer to pratice with over the summer..and slave him in the workout room...

[nate33]

Memphis would surely prefer Okafor to Nene because of the length of Nene's contract. I would guess Okafor/Webster is the offer.

I seriously doubt Memphis would want either Okafor or Nene. They're both expensive, and Memphis is already set in the frontcourt. Okafor might be involved, but it would probably include a 3rd team who takes on Okafor and sends Memphis expiring contracts.

The way Bucher tweeted that the offer is from the Wizards (and not part of a multi team trade) makes me think that the primary cap ballast is Ariza, not Okafor or Nene. Vesely would have to be added to the Ariza package to get the salaries close enough to work. Then it's just a matter of figuring out how much sweetener is necessary.

[nate33]

Random Question:

If you knew you could get both Cousins and Gay, but you'd have to give up 2013's first and Nene...would you do it?

deneem4 posted this trade on the Memphis board: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b9954b2

What is the most you'd give up for both of these players?

I haven't checked, but I'm assuming Memphis fans laughed him off the board. That is beyond horrible for Memphis. Memphis gives up both Randolph and Gay and gets back Jeremy Lin and garbage. They don't even need Jeremy Lin because Conley is a much better player.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Memphis would surely prefer Okafor to Nene because of the length of Nene's contract. I would guess Okafor/Webster is the offer.

I seriously doubt Memphis would want either Okafor or Nene. They're both expensive, and Memphis is already set in the frontcourt. Okafor might be involved, but it would probably include a 3rd team who takes on Okafor and sends Memphis expiring contracts.

The way Bucher tweeted that the offer is from the Wizards (and not part of a multi team trade) makes me think that the primary cap ballast is Ariza, not Okafor or Nene. Vesely would have to be added to the Ariza package to get the salaries close enough to work. Then it's just a matter of figuring out how much sweetener is necessary.

Right, this is pretty much what I posted a couple pages back... Ariza is logical, because of salary needed to make a deal work, and the fact he is a starting SF and would be replaced with acquiring Gay. Vesely adds value to the deal as an untapped 6-11 22 yr old #6 pick from last years draft, and helps the salaries work.

This was posted on Memphis' board...

I think we (Grizz) need a stud SG going forward as we could lose T. Allen this off season who will be looking for his final long term deal but who may not make fiscal sense for the Organization going forward. Therefore obtaining a talent such as Derozan or Ross is actually a must in the Rudy Gay trade.

dark-child
Rookie

Posts: 1188
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This would lead me to Crawford as the next logical inclusion. Ariza, Vesely, Crawford... saves the Grizz a good deal of money, fills needs and eyes the future.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Follow this up with Seraphin/Singleton for Cousins and we might have something...

Wall, Beal, Gay, Nene, Cousins ; bench Price, Webster, Martin, Booker, Okafor

[Spence]

I don't understand why the Wizards, or anyone else, really, would want Rudy Gay so much. He's an average player who is paid like an elite player. How much longer are we going to put off the rebuild? Gay isn't much better than Jordan Crawford from mid range or long range and he's lousy on defense. Crawford holds his man to an 11 PER and Gay holds his to a 13 and Gay gets better help from Gasol and Allen. The Wiz need more scoring and outside shooting. Gay can score a bit, but he's not the 3-point shooter we need.

I understand that the Grizz are now pretty desperate to unload Gay since they waited too long and passed up chances when they could have gotten more for him. I sympathize with their situation, but that doesn't mean the Wiz should help them out.

[LyricalRico]

Memphis would surely prefer Okafor to Nene because of the length of Nene's contract. I would guess Okafor/Webster is the offer.

I seriously doubt Memphis would want either Okafor or Nene. They're both expensive, and Memphis is already set in the frontcourt. Okafor might be involved, but it would probably include a 3rd team who takes on Okafor and sends Memphis expiring contracts.

The way Bucher tweeted that the offer is from the Wizards (and not part of a multi team trade) makes me think that the primary cap ballast is Ariza, not Okafor or Nene. Vesely would have to be added to the Ariza package to get the salaries close enough to work. Then it's just a matter of figuring out how much sweetener is necessary.

Agreed. Plus, if Ted is authorizing the addition of Gay's salary, he's clearly still in "we can win now" mode. And I would guess that means he wants an Okafor/Nene starting frontcourt.

[deneem4]

Based on all the forums opinions...
here is the best scenario to get rudy and cousins...
Solve the grizzlies and bucks and kings problems

Add the kings 2nd rd picks from the wiz
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=convpze

The wiz are now title contenders

[Spence]

A quick look at the numbers reveal that Gay shoots 43% on 2-point shots, which is less than Crawford's 46% on 2-point shots. He shoots 40% from the floor, 30% on 3-pointers and his points per shot is down to 1.07, three straight years of decline.

How can a wing playing with Gasol and Z-Bo be so inefficient?

Gay earns $16 million this year and in 2 years he'll "earn" almost $20 million. He's paid like a star and he's not even close to being a star. And he keeps getting worse every season. Bigger paychecks don't seem to be turning this guy around.

This trade SMELLS like Ernie Grunfeld.

[Upper Decker]

Wiz should do whatever trade necessary to get saddled with an 18 mill per year player who isnt an allstar and cant create his own shot, amirite?? Thats just good business. The only problem for EG is that Rudy's not injury prone so that really screws his excuses of waiting for the team to become fully healthy.

More importantly, and much more depressing. If jabba the Ted is authorizing 'good' trade proposals where he assumes 54M in future obligations then he's not even considering getting rid of EG. An owner who's considering dumping his **** GM wouldnt, or at least shouldnt, get into even semi-deep conversations about acquiring long term contracts of this magnitude.

Last thought, if the wizards do acquire rudy, please no gay puns. They're not funny, extremely childish, and insensitive.

[Spence]

Wiz should do whatever trade necessary to get saddled with an 18 mill per year player who isnt an allstar and cant create his own shot, amirite?? Thats just good business. The only problem for EG is that Rudy's not injury prone so that really screws his excuses of waiting for the team to become fully healthy.

Ditto. This is how bad teams stay bad -- they make moves just to demonstrate to themselves and their fans that something is being done. This is something. Therefore, it must be done.

There is a very good reason the Grizz are desperate to unload Rudy Gay -- he's vastly overpaid and not even close to an elite-level player. He's a poor outside shooter, bad defender and much closer to Jordan Crawford than to LeBron James.

Also, much better to unload Okafor's expiring contract next year.

[GhostsOfGil]

Based on all the forums opinions...
here is the best scenario to get rudy and cousins...
Solve the grizzlies and bucks and kings problems

Add the kings 2nd rd picks from the wiz
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=convpze

The wiz are now title contenders

Holy crap dude, just post the trade not the link.

[tontoz]

Memphis would surely prefer Okafor to Nene because of the length of Nene's contract. I would guess Okafor/Webster is the offer.

I seriously doubt Memphis would want either Okafor or Nene. They're both expensive, and Memphis is already set in the frontcourt. Okafor might be involved, but it would probably include a 3rd team who takes on Okafor and sends Memphis expiring contracts.

The way Bucher tweeted that the offer is from the Wizards (and not part of a multi team trade) makes me think that the primary cap ballast is Ariza, not Okafor or Nene. Vesely would have to be added to the Ariza package to get the salaries close enough to work. Then it's just a matter of figuring out how much sweetener is necessary.

Memphis is set in the frontcourt? Who do they have other than Gasol/Randolph?

Memphis is 24-10, the 4th best record in the league. I seriously doubt they would trade Gay without getting productive players in return. I can't imagine they would dump him for garbage like Ariza/Ves + whatever.

[deneem4]

Based on all the forums opinions...
here is the best scenario to get rudy and cousins...
Solve the grizzlies and bucks and kings problems

Add the kings 2nd rd picks from the wiz
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=convpze

The wiz are now title contenders

Holy crap dude, just post the trade not the link.

Wiz in: Gay/Cousins
Wiz out Nene/Crawford/Seraphin/Webster/Martin

Grizz in: Ellis/Nene/Salmons/Martin
Grizz out: Gay/Allen/Randolph

Bucks in: Crawford/Seraphin/Evans
Bucks Out: Ellis

Kings In: Randolph/Allen/Webster/2nd Rd from Wizards
Kings Out: Cousins/Salmons/Evans

Or (to spice it up for grizzlies and bucks)

wiz in: Gay/Cousins/Udrih
Wiz out: Nene/Crawford/Ariza/Price

Kings In: Randolph/Allen/Przybilla/
Kings out: Cousins/Salmons/Evans
Defense and Vets and a 7ft

Bucks in: Evans/Crawford/Ariza/Salmons/Price
Bucks out: Ellis/Dunleavy/Udrih/Przybills
Gives the bucks much needed depth

Grizz in: Nene/Dunleavy/Ellis/Martin
Grizz out: Randolph/Allen
Grizzly Shooters

[miller31time]

As I said before, I can see the merit in trading Okafor, Ariza and Crawford for Gay (and filler). There are certainly reasons not to do it but it's under the hope and assumption that Gay, with a change of scenery, could boost his numbers to about 20/6/3 with a PER of around 19 or 20 (and again, I realize this is not even close to max salary production).

But I am scared to death what offer EG has put in that would be considered "good" by analysts. Ernie is probably about as desperate to make a "splash" move as ever considering his job has never been more on the line. I can easily see a panic move.

Remember, folks - never has there been a GM who has bid against himself more than our beloved Mr. Grunfeld.

EDIT: If I had to put money on it, I'd say EG offered our 2013 1st rounder as the main part of the package along with Ariza and fillers. I would be irate if he did but that move screams EG.

[hands11]

Wiz should do whatever trade necessary to get saddled with an 18 mill per year player who isnt an allstar and cant create his own shot, amirite?? Thats just good business. The only problem for EG is that Rudy's not injury prone so that really screws his excuses of waiting for the team to become fully healthy.

Ditto. This is how bad teams stay bad -- they make moves just to demonstrate to themselves and their fans that something is being done. This is something. Therefore, it must be done.

There is a very good reason the Grizz are desperate to unload Rudy Gay -- he's vastly overpaid and not even close to an elite-level player. He's a poor outside shooter, bad defender and much closer to Jordan Crawford than to LeBron James.

Also, much better to unload Okafor's expiring contract next year.

But it a good thing if you are only doing it to get your name out there and show you are players in the trade market. No real harm in working the phones and getting the team name some exposure.

Is Gay the right piece to add ? MEH. He is over paid for what he is but he is a solid piece to add and the team should be looking for talent at SF more then a project at SF.

I say win now and build is that model, I wouldn't favor going all in though.

They do have pieces they can trade. That's the important thing.

pick + Ves + Ariza + Crawford
pick + Booker or Singleton+ Ariza + Crawford

But first, I want to see what Trevor A looks like with

Wall, Beal, Trevor A, Nene and Okafor

If Wall is running, dishing and scoring and specially if he added some outside shooting, then him, Beal and Nene are your scorers. Trevor A as a 3rd option long defensive players can work really well in that line up. That line up should be great defensively and it has scoring optios. By that design, you don't need a Gay level SF scorer at the expense of better defense and cheaper contract. Trevor A with Webster may work just fine. So why give up your pick and bench depth for a big money contract when you can just keep growing the team and resign Trevor A for cheap to come off the bench for 2-3 years after you get past his 7M next year contract.

Interesting trade idea but for me it keeps coming back to.... let see what we have first.... Now if not the time to make this kind of trade.