Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - 02/06/13)

[jivelikenice]

I like the idea of trading for Rudy Gay. I think this is an opportunity based on the fact that we'd be giving up players that for the most part aren't considered part of the future core here.

[hands11]

As I said before, I can see the merit in trading Okafor, Ariza and Crawford for Gay (and filler). There are certainly reasons not to do it but it's under the hope and assumption that Gay, with a change of scenery, could boost his numbers to about 20/6/3 with a PER of around 19 or 20 (and again, I realize this is not even close to max salary production).

But I am scared to death what offer EG has put in that would be considered "good" by analysts. Ernie is probably about as desperate to make a "splash" move as ever considering his job has never been more on the line. I can easily see a panic move.

Remember, folks - never has there been a GM who has bid against himself more than our beloved Mr. Grunfeld.

EDIT: If I had to put money on it, I'd say EG offered our 2013 1st rounder as the main part of the package along with Ariza and fillers. I would be irate if he did but that move screams EG.

I don't see why EG would be despite at all. First off, keep in mind he made moves that Ted wanted. ie. Something for Lewis. And they got who they wanted in the draft even not most here didn't think they could pull it off. Second, they are about to get Wall back finally and Beal is starting to break out. They got Nene for McGee. If they start winning at a .500 pace or something close to that, Ted and EG be vindicated.

That would have been a playoff team if healthy from the start of the year which is what lots of us here said they were. Plus you have a high draft pick and some trade assets.

Going from a .300 win team to a .500 pace win team in one year when you just added Beal would be easy for them to promote as successful and on the right track.

Now if they suck once everyone is healthy, then they will start getting desperate.

[AFM]

Honestly I like Gay but I don't know about giving up our 1st. So Ernie will probably do it.
I'd love to dump OkaRiza though.

[jivelikenice]

As I said before, I can see the merit in trading Okafor, Ariza and Crawford for Gay (and filler). There are certainly reasons not to do it but it's under the hope and assumption that Gay, with a change of scenery, could boost his numbers to about 20/6/3 with a PER of around 19 or 20 (and again, I realize this is not even close to max salary production).

But I am scared to death what offer EG has put in that would be considered "good" by analysts. Ernie is probably about as desperate to make a "splash" move as ever considering his job has never been more on the line. I can easily see a panic move.

Remember, folks - never has there been a GM who has bid against himself more than our beloved Mr. Grunfeld.

EDIT: If I had to put money on it, I'd say EG offered our 2013 1st rounder as the main part of the package along with Ariza and fillers. I would be irate if he did but that move screams EG.

Good definitely has to include our first or numerous young parts like Seraphin/Singleton/Crawford. I'm curious if we'd be getting any other parts back in return....

[jivelikenice]

Honestly I like Gay but I don't know about giving up our 1st. So Ernie will probably do it.
I'd love to dump OkaRiza though.

If our first is involved there has to be significant salary dump going back the other way.

[BigA]

On Mike Prada someone pointed out that it's Hollinger's chance to fleece Ernie before he gets fired.

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

Honestly I like Gay but I don't know about giving up our 1st. So Ernie will probably do it.
I'd love to dump OkaRiza though.

I like Rudy Gay too, now I don't study him being that he plays for another team, but looking at his stats he's an efficient scorer. The Wizards need that go-to-scorer when things get tough and he fits the bill. I don't know why so many people are speaking so badly about him. His contract could be the only drawback. If the plan was to bring in a scorer with the top pick then the team would've adressed it via Gay. My gut feeling is that the Wizards need a veteran player vs. a young player like Shabazz Muhammad, even though I wouldn't be too upset if he were brought in (I say too upset because I worry Muhammad may have a sense of entitlement and doesn't seem to be interested in doing the small things). Maybe the Grizzlies end up giving up their 1st rounder when it's all said and done.

[Ruzious]

I guess best case scenario it could be Gay for Okafor and Webster.

Really, I just wanted an excuse to say Okafebster.

[Upper Decker]

EDIT: If I had to put money on it, I'd say EG offered our 2013 1st rounder as the main part of the package along with Ariza and fillers. I would be irate if he did but that move screams EG.

Is there any question that EG included the 1st round pick in the offer? This screams of a pathetic sad little man trying desperately to save his job.

The question I have, and I asked this about Okafor after the trade. Is Rudy Gay actually a good NBA player? I'll grant you he's an average NBA player, but when you say top-10 SF's in the game--is he on that list? Advance stats don't say he's good (just average), shooting %'s don't either (just average), PER nada (just average).

See this is EG's bit. He has this unruly fascination with bringing in high lotto picks that have proven they weren't worth the lofty draft status. The list is long: Shaun Livingston, Martell Webster, Yi Jianlian, Randy Foye, Emeka Okafor, and Antonio Daniels (who else am I missing?).

What this indicates to me is lack of due diligence. Failure to unearth quality NBA players who contribute to winning teams. This further allows him to wave his wand of excuses to Ted and the average joe Wizards fan because these high lotto picks are all easily identifiable players. If you're gonna fail, might as well do it with people everyone knows, rather than trying to find the next Kenneth Faried, Gary Neal, Marc Gasol, Chandler Parsons, etc.

[AFM]

Upper Decker, I'd say he's better than his stats suggest. Honestly his stats are a bit surprising and this is his worst year so far. He could be in the same situation OJ Mayo was last year.
I frequently argued with NichoRoberts over on BulletsForever about signing OJ Mayo. I claimed he was better than his stats suggested and that the Wizards should sign him over the offseason and Nicho just kept throwing stat after stat at me. He has easily been the Mav's best player this year.

[Halcyon]

Parting with our 1st would be such an Ernie thing to do. This is what will happen.

1) Trade 1st + filler for Gay
2) Win like 5 more games than normal
3) Ernie says "Hey we improved, and now that draft pick ain't that good! And now we got a hometown guy back in DC!"
4) Ernie fails to realize said pick would have been top 5 if we just kept it
5) Wizards are stuck with Gay's contract while we are mediocre. Lose draft position, miss out on draft position in the only draft worth a damn in 2014.

You could see this coming from a mile away.

[Upper Decker]

Upper Decker, I'd say he's better than his stats suggest. Honestly his stats are a bit surprising and this is his worst year so far. He could be in the same situation OJ Mayo was last year.
I frequently argued with NichoRoberts over on BulletsForever about signing OJ Mayo. I claimed he was better than his stats suggested and that the Wizards should sign him over the offseason and Nicho just kept throwing stat after stat at me. He has easily been the Mav's best player this year.

OJ Mayo's having a good year, I'll grant you that, however, he's become a focal point of the Mavericks and this is their worst season in 14 years. Dirks been injured, of course, but their offense has centered around OJ Mayo and they've pretty much been terrible. OJ Mayo and Rudy Gay are very similar in the sense that neither is good at getting to the line and neither are good at creating their own shot.

If the Wizards acquire Gay, particularly at the cost of a 1st round pick, Gay will be looked to create offense and he’s never proven capable of doing that for himself or others. I fail to see how Washington would be any different than Dallas.

[MJG]

I wouldn't take Gay for free with that contract. He's like a bigger, glorified Jordan Crawford. Even if you cut his pay in half, I don't think I'd give up anything of any particular use for him.

I absolutely, positively expect Grunfeld to trade for him, and I absolutely, positively expect our first round pick to be in the deal.

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

Upper Decker, I'd say he's better than his stats suggest. Honestly his stats are a bit surprising and this is his worst year so far. He could be in the same situation OJ Mayo was last year.
I frequently argued with NichoRoberts over on BulletsForever about signing OJ Mayo. I claimed he was better than his stats suggested and that the Wizards should sign him over the offseason and Nicho just kept throwing stat after stat at me. He has easily been the Mav's best player this year.

His stats don't even suggest that he's average.

[Induveca]

Doubt our first round pick THIS year is in.....we've gone too far to give that up. Next year i fully expect in the deal sadly.

Ariza/Crawford/Vesely/2014 1st is what I'd expect. Ariza could play the same role on the Grizzlies as Gay.

I don't expect us to become world beaters, or even better, but:

Wall
Beal
Gay
Nene
Okafor

Is far better than the crap we currently have.......it would at least make me watch 4 or 5 games until Gay tears his ACL.

[hands11]

I wouldn't take Gay for free with that contract. He's like a bigger, glorified Jordan Crawford. Even if you cut his pay in half, I don't think I'd give up anything of any particular use for him.

I absolutely, positively expect Grunfeld to trade for him, and I absolutely, positively expect our first round pick to be in the deal.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... r_Rudy_Gay

Naaa. I don't see it.

A trade right now just doesn't seem to be in the picture. I think they are just getting their name out there.

Just getting healthy is effectively making a trade. They are adding Wall, Nene, Trevor A, Price and Booker. They just added Temple.

If they trade the pick, it won't likely happen until much closer to the draft when they can see what is really out there.

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

EDIT: If I had to put money on it, I'd say EG offered our 2013 1st rounder as the main part of the package along with Ariza and fillers. I would be irate if he did but that move screams EG.

Is there any question that EG included the 1st round pick in the offer? This screams of a pathetic sad little man trying desperately to save his job.

The question I have, and I asked this about Okafor after the trade. Is Rudy Gay actually a good NBA player? I'll grant you he's an average NBA player, but when you say top-10 SF's in the game--is he on that list? Advance stats don't say he's good (just average), shooting %'s don't either (just average), PER nada (just average).

See this is EG's bit. He has this unruly fascination with bringing in high lotto picks that have proven they weren't worth the lofty draft status. The list is long: Shaun Livingston, Martell Webster, Yi Jianlian, Randy Foye, Emeka Okafor, and Antonio Daniels (who else am I missing?).

What this indicates to me is lack of due diligence. Failure to unearth quality NBA players who contribute to winning teams. This further allows him to wave his wand of excuses to Ted and the average joe Wizards fan because these high lotto picks are all easily identifiable players. If you're gonna fail, might as well do it with people everyone knows, rather than trying to find the next Kenneth Faried, Gary Neal, Marc Gasol, Chandler Parsons, etc.

How can you down Rudy Gay, but then speak so well of Marc Gasol as if he's an all-star when he's only averaging 13 points this season and 13 for a career?

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

EDIT: If I had to put money on it, I'd say EG offered our 2013 1st rounder as the main part of the package along with Ariza and fillers. I would be irate if he did but that move screams EG.

Is there any question that EG included the 1st round pick in the offer? This screams of a pathetic sad little man trying desperately to save his job.

The question I have, and I asked this about Okafor after the trade. Is Rudy Gay actually a good NBA player? I'll grant you he's an average NBA player, but when you say top-10 SF's in the game--is he on that list? Advance stats don't say he's good (just average), shooting %'s don't either (just average), PER nada (just average).

See this is EG's bit. He has this unruly fascination with bringing in high lotto picks that have proven they weren't worth the lofty draft status. The list is long: Shaun Livingston, Martell Webster, Yi Jianlian, Randy Foye, Emeka Okafor, and Antonio Daniels (who else am I missing?).

What this indicates to me is lack of due diligence. Failure to unearth quality NBA players who contribute to winning teams. This further allows him to wave his wand of excuses to Ted and the average joe Wizards fan because these high lotto picks are all easily identifiable players. If you're gonna fail, might as well do it with people everyone knows, rather than trying to find the next Kenneth Faried, Gary Neal, Marc Gasol, Chandler Parsons, etc.

I think the better question is does he prove to be an elite player versus just the very good player he is now as a player on the Wizards roster?

He actually is on that list if you want to be honest and not put guys who have lesser stats and experience before him just to discredit him.

[AFM]

Upper Decker, I'd say he's better than his stats suggest. Honestly his stats are a bit surprising and this is his worst year so far. He could be in the same situation OJ Mayo was last year.
I frequently argued with NichoRoberts over on BulletsForever about signing OJ Mayo. I claimed he was better than his stats suggested and that the Wizards should sign him over the offseason and Nicho just kept throwing stat after stat at me. He has easily been the Mav's best player this year.

His stats don't even suggest that he's average.

Gay or Mayo?

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

Upper Decker, I'd say he's better than his stats suggest. Honestly his stats are a bit surprising and this is his worst year so far. He could be in the same situation OJ Mayo was last year.
I frequently argued with NichoRoberts over on BulletsForever about signing OJ Mayo. I claimed he was better than his stats suggested and that the Wizards should sign him over the offseason and Nicho just kept throwing stat after stat at me. He has easily been the Mav's best player this year.

His stats don't even suggest that he's average.

Gay or Mayo?

Gay.