The Lebron Thread

Chalky White · Post #1381 » by **Chalky White** » Sat Feb 9, 2013 6:07 am

LeBron is the Shaq of perimeter players, this generations Shaq, whatever. They way he physically dominates games, effortlessly bowling over his opponents as if they were mere mortals to his Demi-god, reminds me of 00-02 Shaq. It's breathtaking.

Moreover, LeBron is Shaq to Durant's Tim Duncan. Relatively the same difference in age and years between they were drafted, similar aesthetic appeal to their respective games(Physical domination versus skilled assassin), the physically dominant player leaving the small market for a big market after a failed finals appearance followed by multiple early exits versus the skilled assassin being drafted by a small market and remaining with said team, expressive character versus the more reserved, laid back character. Etc.

starvinmarvin17 · Post #1382 » by **starvinmarvin17** » Sat Feb 9, 2013 7:07 am

Chalky White wrote:LeBron is the Shaq of perimeter players, this generations Shaq, whatever. They way he physically dominates games, effortlessly bowling over his opponents as if they were mere mortals to his Demi-god, reminds me of 00-02 Shaq. It's breathtaking.

Moreover, LeBron is Shaq to Durant's Tim Duncan. Relatively the same difference in age and years between they were drafted, similar aesthetic appeal to their respective games(Physical domination versus skilled assassin), the physically dominant player leaving the small market for a big market after a failed finals appearance followed by multiple early exits versus the skilled assassin being drafted by a small market and remaining with said team, expressive character versus the more reserved, laid back character. Etc.

Damn when you put it like that shaq sounds like an ass that is only good because he's so physically imposing.

SunKing · Post #1383 » by **SunKing** » Sat Feb 9, 2013 7:41 am

Actually I remember Shaq himself saying that he was jealous of Chris Webber skills for example or that he wasn't as talented as TD or Hakeem so he was more focused about being the most dominant guy of his generation.

D.Brasco · Post #1384 » by **D.Brasco** » Sat Feb 9, 2013 7:47 am

SunKing wrote:Actually I remember Shaq himself saying that he was jealous of Chris Webber skills for example or that he wasn't as talented as TD or Hakeem so he was more focused about being the most dominant guy of his generation.

I can't picture shaq ever saying those things. He's way too self-conscience to have called himself less talented.

lorak · Post #1385 » by **lorak** » Sat Feb 9, 2013 10:33 am

'12 LeBron played at GOAT level. And now '13 LeBron is even better. AMAZING.

D.Brasco · Post #1386 » by **D.Brasco** » Sat Feb 9, 2013 10:53 am

His PER this season is amazing but i'm wondering why it's still lower than in '09 and '10? Is it just that he was scoring slightly more but he was doing so on less efficiency than this season, so i'm not sure why?

mysticbb · Post #1387 » by **mysticbb** » Sat Feb 9, 2013 11:02 am

DavidStern wrote:'12 LeBron played at GOAT level. And now '13 LeBron is even better. AMAZING.

I don't think that 12' James had GOAT level. People seem to not be able to account for the league-wide drop in terms of playing level due to the lockout and the compressed schedule. James started out with better numbers while constantly dropping slightly when the league-wide level improved over the course of the 2012 season.

On the other hand, if James can keep his playing level throughout the playoffs, I wouldn't be sure which one I take: 1991 Jordan or 2013 James. I'm very impressed with the playing level James shows this season and I don't get the arguments by people wanted to claim that Durant would be better or close to that level.

D.Brasco wrote:His PER this season is amazing but i'm wondering why it's still lower than in '09 and '10? Is it just that he was scoring slightly more but he was doing so on less efficiency than this season, so i'm not sure why?

PER depends on usage. In 2009 and 2010 James had a higher usage. Also, a lower turnover rate and higher blocks and steals are contributing to that difference.

lorak · Post #1388 » by **lorak** » Sat Feb 9, 2013 11:36 am

mysticbb wrote:
DavidStern wrote:'12 LeBron played at GOAT level. And now '13 LeBron is even better. AMAZING.

I don't think that 12' James had GOAT level. People seem to not be able to account for the league-wide drop in terms of playing level due to the lockout and the compressed schedule. James started out with better numbers while constantly dropping slightly when the league-wide level improved over the course of the 2012 season.

and in playoffs James again improved his level.

mysticbb · Post #1389 » by **mysticbb** » Sat Feb 9, 2013 12:35 pm

DavidStern wrote:and in playoffs James again improved his level.

Barely, still nothing to put that 2012 season over 2010 or 2009. And I wouldn't put either season at the GOAT level either. 2013 on the other hand so far? Yeah, that is GOAT level. That is in Jordan 1991 or O'Neal 2000 category.

I think the 2012 season by James is overrated by many, because they fail to really take the hit in terms of playing level league-wide into account while also falling for the winning bias. Do you know that efficiency-wise James during the 2011 and 2012 finals wasn't that much different? The difference was just opportunities, where in 2011 Wade got more due to better allowed positioning by the Mavericks defense. In 2012 James played more often PF; which led to better positions for rebounds (in addition to a weaker rebounding opponent). Also, the Heat faced a weaker opponents during their 2012 run than in 2011. Nobody seems to care about that fact as well.
The circumstances made James look better in 2012, but I hardly saw him as the much improved player he was seen by others. Right now, he showed that next step to me, being able to fit in better by moving better, making better plays from a post position, while having improved his shooting and shot selection further.

Right now, the best seasons of James (assuming he keeps that level he has now for the rest of the season):

2013
2010
2009
2012
2011

jjgp111292 · Post #1390 » by **jjgp111292** » Sat Feb 9, 2013 3:01 pm

D.Brasco wrote:
SunKing wrote:Actually I remember Shaq himself saying that he was jealous of Chris Webber skills for example or that he wasn't as talented as TD or Hakeem so he was more focused about being the most dominant guy of his generation.

I can't picture shaq ever saying those things. He's way too self-conscience to have called himself less talented.

He said this all on Open Court and frequently mentions it on Inside The NBA.

Post #1391 » by **INKtastic** » Sat Feb 9, 2013 3:47 pm

Chalky White wrote:LeBron is the Shaq of perimeter players, this generations Shaq, whatever. They way he physically dominates games, effortlessly bowling over his opponents as if they were mere mortals to his Demi-god, reminds me of 00-02 Shaq. It's breathtaking.

Moreover, LeBron is Shaq to Durant's Tim Duncan. Relatively the same difference in age and years between they were drafted, similar aesthetic appeal to their respective games(Physical domination versus skilled assassin), the physically dominant player leaving the small market for a big market after a failed finals appearance followed by multiple early exits versus the skilled assassin being drafted by a small market and remaining with said team, expressive character versus the more reserved, laid back character. Etc.

you don't think LeBron is a skilled assassin? His skill level is off the charts.

GSP · Post #1392 » by **GSP** » Sat Feb 9, 2013 3:51 pm

mysticbb wrote:
DavidStern wrote:and in playoffs James again improved his level.

Barely, still nothing to put that 2012 season over 2010 or 2009. And I wouldn't put either season at the GOAT level either. 2013 on the other hand so far? Yeah, that is GOAT level. That is in Jordan 1991 or O'Neal 2000 category.

I think the 2012 season by James is overrated by many, because they fail to really take the hit in terms of playing level league-wide into account while also falling for the winning bias. Do you know that efficiency-wise James during the 2011 and 2012 finals wasn't that much different? The difference was just opportunities, where in 2011 Wade got more due to better allowed positioning by the Mavericks defense. In 2012 James played more often PF; which led to better positions for rebounds (in addition to a weaker rebounding opponent). Also, the Heat faced a weaker opponents during their 2012 run than in 2011. Nobody seems to care about that fact as well.
The circumstances made James look better in 2012, but I hardly saw him as the much improved player he was seen by others. Right now, he showed that next step to me, being able to fit in better by moving better, making better plays from a post position, while having improved his shooting and shot selection further.

Right now, the best seasons of James (assuming he keeps that level he has now for the rest of the season):

2013
2010
2009
2012
2011

How come 2010 before 2009?

datstockton · Post #1393 » by **datstockton** » Sat Feb 9, 2013 5:09 pm

Can a stat guy figure out what LeBron's PER would be if he was shooting his career average from the FT% line? I feel like it would be the best ever.

ardee · Post #1394 » by **ardee** » Sat Feb 9, 2013 5:13 pm

datstockton wrote:Can a stat guy figure out what LeBron's PER would be if he was shooting his career average from the FT% line? I feel like it would be the best ever.

It's a difference of 0.011. It'd increase his scoring average by 0.06 points so it would barely make a difference. If he was shooting his normal number of FT attempts though, then yeah, 32 or so is likely.

datstockton · Post #1395 » by **datstockton** » Sat Feb 9, 2013 5:17 pm

ardee wrote:
datstockton wrote:Can a stat guy figure out what LeBron's PER would be if he was shooting his career average from the FT% line? I feel like it would be the best ever.

It's a difference of 0.011. It'd increase his scoring average by 0.06 points so it would barely make a difference. If he was shooting his normal number of FT attempts though, then yeah, 32 or so is likely.

Ah, true. That brings up another point though, does anyone who's been watching LeBron a lot this year feel he isn't deserving of more FT's? This guy is constantly getting hacked. The refs have chosen to hold their whistle for whatever reason this year.

ThatsWhatIShved · Post #1396 » by **ThatsWhatIShved** » Sat Feb 9, 2013 6:11 pm

datstockton wrote:
ardee wrote:
datstockton wrote:Can a stat guy figure out what LeBron's PER would be if he was shooting his career average from the FT% line? I feel like it would be the best ever.

It's a difference of 0.011. It'd increase his scoring average by 0.06 points so it would barely make a difference. If he was shooting his normal number of FT attempts though, then yeah, 32 or so is likely.

Ah, true. That brings up another point though, does anyone who's been watching LeBron a lot this year feel he isn't deserving of more FT's? This guy is constantly getting hacked. The refs have chosen to hold their whistle for whatever reason this year.

It's a league wide change. Officiating at the rim has gotten tougher. Rookies are really getting shafted, you should see how Shved, Waiters, etc. are being called compared to rest of the league. It's disgusting. Lebron is still being gifted too many freebies imo. He gets away with more traveling and offensive fouls than anyone since Shaq.

ardee · Post #1397 » by **ardee** » Sat Feb 9, 2013 6:45 pm

mysticbb wrote:
DavidStern wrote:and in playoffs James again improved his level.

Barely, still nothing to put that 2012 season over 2010 or 2009. And I wouldn't put either season at the GOAT level either. 2013 on the other hand so far? Yeah, that is GOAT level. That is in Jordan 1991 or O'Neal 2000 category.

I think the 2012 season by James is overrated by many, because they fail to really take the hit in terms of playing level league-wide into account while also falling for the winning bias. Do you know that efficiency-wise James during the 2011 and 2012 finals wasn't that much different? The difference was just opportunities, where in 2011 Wade got more due to better allowed positioning by the Mavericks defense. In 2012 James played more often PF; which led to better positions for rebounds (in addition to a weaker rebounding opponent). Also, the Heat faced a weaker opponents during their 2012 run than in 2011. Nobody seems to care about that fact as well.
The circumstances made James look better in 2012, but I hardly saw him as the much improved player he was seen by others. Right now, he showed that next step to me, being able to fit in better by moving better, making better plays from a post position, while having improved his shooting and shot selection further.

Right now, the best seasons of James (assuming he keeps that level he has now for the rest of the season):

2013
2010
2009
2012
2011

mysticbb, I'm curious to know, what are your top 15 peaks? Haven't seen a list from you on the project.

ronnymac2 · Post #1398 » by **ronnymac2** » Sat Feb 9, 2013 10:24 pm

His eFG% is nearly 60 percent.

We're watching a god peak. No other player has been at this general level of play since Shaq in the 2001 playoffs. As for regular season dominance, it's the best since Shaq in 2000 (not including other versions of LBJ).

Johnny Firpo · Post #1399 » by **Johnny Firpo** » Sat Feb 9, 2013 10:42 pm

Guy is unreal.

MisterWestside · Post #1400 » by **MisterWestside** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:39 am

mysticbb wrote:I think the 2012 season by James is overrated by many, because they fail to really take the hit in terms of playing level league-wide into account while also falling for the winning bias. Do you know that efficiency-wise James during the 2011 and 2012 finals wasn't that much different? The difference was just opportunities, where in 2011 Wade got more due to better allowed positioning by the Mavericks defense.

I'd ask how you arrived to this conclusion in earnest, but since you feel that you're the world's sole authority on the game of basketball, I'll be satisfied with the fact that you're simply incorrect with your assessment on James.

As you were.