Trade Targets, Part Deux

[PetroNet]

Shocking that a guy who thinks our biggest problem is leadership thinks it's ok to MAX out Josh Smith for 5 years.

This dude has been a pretty big on court and off court cancer for the last few years, and he's just a low BBIQ player in general. Pretty sure we have enough of those on this team.

for a cancer, his teams have generally overachieved and been a top 4 or 5 seed for most of his time in atlanta. he may have some attitude issues now and then, but they stem from competitiveness and a will to want to win, and he certainly has never been cancerous due to it.

im fine with his offensively low bbiq because he is elite defenively and would make a larger impact on our team then anyone else we could possibly bring in.

[PetroNet]

Anyone who thinks Josh Smith is worth $94m over 5 years is completely nuts.

Nearly every team interested in Smith has better assets than us to offer for a potential Smith trade. I highly doubt it happens. I still say Gordon & pieces is the only real deal that could happen for us outside of Howard becoming available.

id max out smith in a heartbeat. it would be one thing if we had 20 million in cap room and used it all up on smith and thus couldnt allocate it elsewhere. we arent in that situation. we are over the tax and have no means to add a free agent for the next 3-5 years. thus adding smith is an obvious move you make if you have any chance to do it. you overpay him 4-5 million per year. great, its better then paying scrubs what they deserve at the league minimum. plus smith is the perfect fit for all that ails us, and would make an enormous difference defensively.

i agree, we wont get him, because no one is shipping out and expiring for humphries. but if we could i give him the max in a split second. hell if we didnt he wouldnt even be one of our 3 worst contracts!

But potentially Smith could be the only person on our roster in 2016/17 with a $20m+ contract which is crazy. Obviously that would be the 4th year of Smith's deal where he would be 31, he'd be 32 in his final year in 2017/18 when he would be again high into the $20m range.

Currently as it stands the team could have absolutely nobody on the roster in 2016 for a very good free agent class. Smith would be a nightmare contract to take on because if D Will doesn't opt out of his final year we'd have over $45m already tied up in cap which means no max contract would be available to sign anyone.

Long term, Josh Smith is a complete nightmare signing and would be so short sighted to be paying someone the kind of money he would get off us for a player that has never been an All Star in 9 years in the NBA.

we are locked into this team for the next 4 seasons either way because of JJ/dwill/Lopez. once that ends, we are going to go through a transition period either way. im fine pushing a rebuild/retooling back a year if it means the next 4 years are more sucessful.

at the end of JJ's contract, he wont be worth brining back. likewise, likely, with dwill. Lopez, unless he gets injured, like gets another big payday.

if williams picks up his final year, which he will. and lopez gets another contract, which he in all likelyhood will, you are looking at 40 million tied up between lopez and deron williams. along with at the very least what 8 or 10 cap holds if we renounce everyone else rights? thats say 46 million.

would we really be much better off with lopez/dwill and 10 million in cap space then we would be with dwill/lopez/smith with 2 years left, everyones rights still in place and over the cap but under the tax with the MLE to spend?

Smith doesnt change our long term flexibility much at all. unless you think there will be a player available in 2016-2017 that will sign for 10 million per that will be significantly better then smith at that time.

[DWILLoftheGODZ]

Anyone who thinks Josh Smith is worth $94m over 5 years is completely nuts.

Nearly every team interested in Smith has better assets than us to offer for a potential Smith trade. I highly doubt it happens. I still say Gordon & pieces is the only real deal that could happen for us outside of Howard becoming available.

id max out smith in a heartbeat. it would be one thing if we had 20 million in cap room and used it all up on smith and thus couldnt allocate it elsewhere. we arent in that situation. we are over the tax and have no means to add a free agent for the next 3-5 years. thus adding smith is an obvious move you make if you have any chance to do it. you overpay him 4-5 million per year. great, its better then paying scrubs what they deserve at the league minimum. plus smith is the perfect fit for all that ails us, and would make an enormous difference defensively.

i agree, we wont get him, because no one is shipping out and expiring for humphries. but if we could i give him the max in a split second. hell if we didnt he wouldnt even be one of our 3 worst contracts!

But potentially Smith could be the only person on our roster in 2016/17 with a $20m+ contract which is crazy. Obviously that would be the 4th year of Smith's deal where he would be 31, he'd be 32 in his final year in 2017/18 when he would be again high into the $20m range.

Currently as it stands the team could have absolutely nobody on the roster in 2016 for a very good free agent class. Smith would be a nightmare contract to take on because if D Will doesn't opt out of his final year we'd have over $45m already tied up in cap which means no max contract would be available to sign anyone.

Long term, Josh Smith is a complete nightmare signing and would be so short sighted to be paying someone the kind of money he would get off us for a player that has never been an All Star in 9 years in the NBA.

Stretch him if that is the case. At 31/32 he should be at worse on AK's level. I dont know why your so worried about 2016 anyway. Worry about 2013. JJ and Crash arent getting any younger you know

[PetroNet]

Stretch him if that is the case. At 31/32 he should be at worse on AK's level. I dont know why your so worried about 2017 anyway. Worry about 2013. JJ and Crash arent getting any younger you know

not just 2013... worry about 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016. those 4 years we are locked into this team. id prefer to be locked into this team PLUS smith, if that means sacraficing the 2016-2017 season... which as i pointed out, wouldnt be really sacraficing anything but a 10M per year type player

[drivewayball]

I think Boozer is the best option of the four for these reasons: He's the best rebounder of the four and the Nets are weak in that area. With DWill, he was part of the best PandR in the league ... I think their experience together has a ton of value and that he makes DWill better. On the negative side is the cost.

[PetroNet]

I think Boozer is the best option of the four for these reasons: He's the best rebounder of the four and the Nets are weak in that area. With DWill, he was part of the best PandR in the league ... I think their experience together has a ton of value and that he makes DWill better. On the negative side is the cost.

people keep bringing up the pick and roll, but i think our biggest issue with the pick and roll is williams at this point. he simply isnt a threat to get to the hoop, teams are happy trailing him on it. until he gets any kind of explosion back, that will continue to be the case.

as far as reboudning, how is that an issue? we almost never get outrebounded

[drivewayball]

Just saying, if you want the Utah DWill, give him back his power forward. The pick and roll is a huge weapn when run effectively and nobody ran it better than DWill and Booz.

[Keith Van Horn]

My views on most significant trade scenarios which could be made:

#1 option is Dwight Howard. We know what he's capable of and how much of a game changer he can be on offense and defense. As good as Lopez has been, replacing him with Dwight will do wonders if everyone is 100% healthy. This also suggests we would see a lot more of Mirza and less of Evans (who would have to be paired with Blatche off the bench). If it's not going to be Dwight (and it won't be so I don't know why I'm still wasting time discussing it ) the next option is a distant #2 but I think still would get us to the ECF. Dwight has to realize he has a better chance of making the finals in the east too verse in the west.

#2 option has to be Josh Smith (and I've changed my mind on this). As much of a screw ball as he is, his potential is tremendous. If him and Deron could get a steady pick and roll down, I think that could rival that of Paul/Griffin. He does have good hands and is suited well for it. Deron and Crash would have to keep him in check obviously and he would have to adapt his game for this team -- he cannot be taking 3s at the rate he does in Atlanta. But running pick plays with Deron.... the options out of the PnR are great -- kick out to JJ, dump it from Smith to Lopez, hit a baseline cutting Wallace, etc.

I'm not sure if Milsap, Illyosova, Boozer, etc. are going to get us over the hump in the long run.

And also it needs to be said that no matter who we get, we still need shooters off the bench. Too bad we can't get Gordon and one of the two guys above... I think that would be an awesome team to watch and they definitely would compete.

[PetroNet]

Just saying, if you want the Utah DWill, give him back his power forward. The pick and roll is a huge weapn when run effectively and nobody ran it better than DWill and Booz.

brining back utah players wont bring back utah dwill. he has several injuries he didnt have then, he isnt nearly in the shape he was then, and his confidence wasnt what it was then. and like i said, our PnR here suffers mainly because of williams, not his teammates.

[PetroNet]

My views on most significant trade scenarios which could be made:

#1 option is Dwight Howard. We know what he's capable of and how much of a game changer he can be on offense and defense. As good as Lopez has been, replacing him with Dwight will do wonders if everyone is 100% healthy. This also suggests we would see a lot more of Mirza and less of Evans (who would have to be paired with Blatche off the bench). If it's not going to be Dwight (and it won't be so I don't know why I'm still wasting time discussing it ) the next option is a distant #2 but I think still would get us to the ECF. Dwight has to realize he has a better chance of making the finals in the east too verse in the west.

#2 option has to be Josh Smith (and I've changed my mind on this). As much of a screw ball as he is, his potential is tremendous. If him and Deron could get a steady pick and roll down, I think that could rival that of Paul/Griffin. He does have good hands and is suited well for it. Deron and Crash would have to keep him in check obviously and he would have to adapt his game for this team -- he cannot be taking 3s at the rate he does in Atlanta. But running pick plays with Deron.... the options out of the PnR are great -- kick out to JJ, dump it from Smith to Lopez, hit a baseline cutting Wallace, etc.

I'm not sure if Milsap, Illyosova, Boozer, etc. are going to get us over the hump in the long run.

And also it needs to be said that no matter who we get, we still need shooters off the bench. Too bad we can't get Gordon and one of the two guys above... I think that would be an awesome team to watch and they definitely would compete.

id prefer smith to howard, only because to get smith we wouldnt have to give up lopez. and smith + lopez > just dwight imo.

[DarkXaero]

Just saying, if you want the Utah DWill, give him back his power forward. The pick and roll is a huge weapn when run effectively and nobody ran it better than DWill and Booz.

brining back utah players wont bring back utah dwill. he has several injuries he didnt have then, he isnt nearly in the shape he was then, and his confidence wasnt what it was then. and like i said, our PnR here suffers mainly because of williams, not his teammates.

[jeff1624]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA

Boston's active on several fronts, including discussions on Josh Smith. Brooklyn is solely focused on making a Smith deal.

[enetric]

Just saying, if you want the Utah DWill, give him back his power forward. The pick and roll is a huge weapn when run effectively and nobody ran it better than DWill and Booz.

brining back utah players wont bring back utah dwill. he has several injuries he didnt have then, he isnt nearly in the shape he was then, and his confidence wasnt what it was then. and like i said, our PnR here suffers mainly because of williams, not his teammates.

Not to mention Boozer isnt nearly the player he was then either. To me buying the most expensive years of a contract for a guy who is noticeably declined is not the way to go once again. We know that JJ will bite us in the ass as each year passes. But Boozer too? I am not buying this reunion idea of rejuvenation.

[enetric]

My views on most significant trade scenarios which could be made:

#1 option is Dwight Howard. We know what he's capable of and how much of a game changer he can be on offense and defense. As good as Lopez has been, replacing him with Dwight will do wonders if everyone is 100% healthy. This also suggests we would see a lot more of Mirza and less of Evans (who would have to be paired with Blatche off the bench). If it's not going to be Dwight (and it won't be so I don't know why I'm still wasting time discussing it ) the next option is a distant #2 but I think still would get us to the ECF. Dwight has to realize he has a better chance of making the finals in the east too verse in the west.

#2 option has to be Josh Smith (and I've changed my mind on this). As much of a screw ball as he is, his potential is tremendous. If him and Deron could get a steady pick and roll down, I think that could rival that of Paul/Griffin. He does have good hands and is suited well for it. Deron and Crash would have to keep him in check obviously and he would have to adapt his game for this team -- he cannot be taking 3s at the rate he does in Atlanta. But running pick plays with Deron.... the options out of the PnR are great -- kick out to JJ, dump it from Smith to Lopez, hit a baseline cutting Wallace, etc.

I'm not sure if Milsap, Illyosova, Boozer, etc. are going to get us over the hump in the long run.

And also it needs to be said that no matter who we get, we still need shooters off the bench. Too bad we can't get Gordon and one of the two guys above... I think that would be an awesome team to watch and they definitely would compete.

id prefer smith to howard, only because to get smith we wouldnt have to give up lopez. and smith + lopez > just dwight imo.

I agree that landing Smith for Hump and crap is more of a position upgrade than Lopez/Dwight. But, in theory each trade is totally different. No reason both cannot be pursued. So you have to ask it separately....Would I do the Smith deal? Of course. Would I also do a Lopez for Howard deal? Also...of course. And then you have to ask...in terms of building a true contender...which one player has the most potential for impact? Well that's Dwight. End of the day....its still a league where superstars win the titles.

[N Ireland Nets]

San Antonio Spurs have inquired about trading for Bogdanovic.

Spurs are also rumoured to be interested in Teletovic.

[therealbig3]

San Antonio Spurs have inquired about trading for Bogdanovic.

Spurs are also rumoured to be interested in Teletovic.

Of course they are, they actually realize that Euros can be pretty good players.

Watch Teletovic get traded to the Spurs and explode to become a really solid contributor.

[enetric]

I have some issues here...

I come in peace, not bait or troll attempt...Just wanted to shed some light from a long time LA fan's perspective...

First things first, who knows what Dwight will actually do or not do. It seems as if he changes his mind by the minute. What I can tell you is that Dwight has not expressed any desire to Mitch to be traded nor has his agent done so. Perhaps, Dwight still prefers BK but that's not possible on his end without LA's approval unless he's willing to take the Mini-MLE.

Can you validate HOW you can speak as an authority about what Dwight or his agent has had to say to Kupchak? I agree, that its not possible without LA trading him to us. He isnt taking the MLE...not going to happen and given our current payroll an S&T isnt going to happen either. So for the foreseeable future, any shot Dwight has to get to Bklyn has to happen by Thursday. That isnt to say we couldnt possibly have this conversation again in a year...but for the sake of what's relevant, Dwight must be dealt to us by Thursday. Has he asked to be dealt? I dont know...and I would be curious who you are or who you know to say with certainty that he hasnt asked to be dealt.

Now, Dwight's health is a major factor. He's far from healthy as far as his back goes and he's headed for surgery as soon as the season is over (6 Months recoup). Dwight has spoken numerous times about how his recent setbacks have spooked him a bit as far as his career goes. Does he give up the guaranteed 5th year? If you were a no state tax such as Dallas, then I'd be inclined to believe that he wouldn't care about the extra money.

By your own accurate analysis in paragraph 1, you made your point in paragraph 2 moot. If the only way we get him is by trade from LA as of Thursday...then we would be able to give him the 5th year as that we would be trading for his bird rights. Now I know you are going to say...but I meant signing him as a free agent. So again I point out...MOOT. As you said, he isnt taking the Mini MLE so why are we talking about it? Dwight will either get 5 years from you, 5 from us if traded here by Thursday...or from some other team he gets traded to. Or he takes the max he can get from a team with cap space. Those are the options and the bet your GM is making is that no way he leaves the great Laker franchise and max money on the table. Reasonable bet...but if a threat is made...the window would seem to still be open here because it is still a HUUUGE gamble if he is wrong.

Next, LA has plans for a complete rebuild (hopefully with Dwight still around) during the summer of 2014. Everyone is off the books except Dwight, if he resigns, and Steve Nash who I believe will retire after next reason. So for argument sakes, Lets just say Dwight. LA has enough to sign 2 max free agents or possibly wait until 2015 where they can pair Dwight with Kevin Love and Rajon Rondo. Losing Dwight is NOT the end of the world as many of you make it seem. Worst case scenario is Kobe Bryant playing for a lottery team in his final year. Does Kobe ask for a trade then? IMO, teams would be more inclined to give up expiring assets and picks for a 1 year 30M rental of Kobe. Then wait until 2014 or 2015 to rebuild. Remember LA still has there 2014 pick, so being a bottom feeder wouldn't be a bad thing.

Kobe will play both of these seasons with LA unless he retires early. Not because I dont think he would waive his NT clause. I think he would. But its because he would only do it for a team he could contend with. Now do the math. Who could possibly salary match for his nut without gutting their team? Not possible. Kobe leaves LA one of two ways. For retirement or he signs elsewhere for one last run after this contract is up. I know he says he is done in two years...but competitors have been known to change their minds about that when the moment comes.

Then you have the notion that LA would take Brook Lopez. I am positive LA will not take on his contract which would ruin their 14 or 15 plans. If LA were to ship Dwight to BK, a 3-team trade would be the only possibly route.

This makes no sense to me whatsoever. You didnt think this through. Having Dwight signed on the books for 22 mil that summer doesnt hurt your plans but having Lopez signed for 16.7mil does?

You would have an all star caliber big man making significantly less giving you more cap space. Lopez isnt Dwight. But...if you actually knew right now that Dwight has said TRADE me or I bolt...and he actually does bolt? Taking Lopez would be the best thing you can do. People need to stop referring to Lopez as a max player. He got the max HE was eligible to sign. But that amount is 40 mil less than what Dwight will get or what true max is.

Now we get back to LA who is 3 games behind the 8th seed in the L column. Who's to say they don't make a run and sway Dwight's decision...This season has been derailed mostly because of injuries and coaching changes.

Why are you talking about swaying his decision if you are so certain he hasnt asked for a trade? If he isnt looking to leave that what do you need to sway? That leads me to ask you...is it possible you were too confident in paragraph 1?

Now, lets say he is thinking about leaving or has asked for a trade behind the scenes? How far of a run would you need to make to sway him? From 8th seed to where? Beat the Thunder and the Spurs after the year you are having? Seems like a lot has to start clicking...no? You season has been derailed by a lot of things. Not just coaching changes and injuries. Add, a lack of chemistry. Extreme ego by Kobe letting Dwight know who the man is on that team. A bad fit for Gasol and Dwight. And on and on.

One thing which is certain is that Dwight won't be demanding anything here in LA. Ask Shaq, Ariza, and Odom how that went. Also add the fact that Dwight has already confirmed that Mitch told him they are not trading him. That was the perfect time for Dwight to state that he wanted out, in which he didn't. Possibly, Dwight still wants to stay in LA.

All in all, these next few days and possibly months will be interesting...

Demand is funny word. More like ask and inform. As in Dwight quite possibly has had his agent request a trade for all you know. And its possible that he has also told Mitch that his client feels this is a bad fit and is strongly considering walking away in July so if you want to get a return here is list of the teams he would verbally commit to re-sign with should the acquire his Bird rights by Thursday. Anyone else will have to roll the dice same as you.

And its possible Mitchy said...no dice...we are the great LA we will not capitulate to anyone. He will sign here. No one leaves us. Or he said, keep your mouth shut in the media as far as naming teams or leaking rumors about our conversations and we will see what happens. We understand your position and we will let you know our decision at the deadline. Until then lets be professional and not have a media circus.

My point is...you really dont know what was said behind closed doors. Neither do we. And trying to guess at what Dwight has said or hasnt said from what little we really do know doesnt make a lot of sense to me.

What we know is this...

1- Mitch says he isnt trading him. Doesnt mean he is telling the truth. His actions and his words do not need to match. Wouldnt be the first time someone denied something emphatically in the press and did it anyway.

2- Dwight looks and sounds utterly miserable in LA. Doesnt mean he has in fact asked for a trade.

3- Dwight is being deliberately evasive on his intentions in interviews. He has yet to commit any love for LA publicly. Doesnt mean he wont stay for the money or a long term belief in LA's stellar track record. But its reasonable to assert that he keeping his options open and that isnt exactly sold as of yet.

4- So far, nothing has worked for LA. Nothing. On paper the team is scary. But in reality for many reasons or excuses we can give...the bottom line is...a very disappointing season. I think its fair to say, that's bad timing and why fuel is added to the fire for a belief he just might be looking at his options. And it explains why some believe that behind the scenes Dwight HAS asked for a trade.



Now, if you have something more concrete to support why you believe you know what Dwight has told Mitch Kupchak? I would love to hear it. But if not, it would be nice to also hear that perhaps you havent thought it all the way through. If so? No harm no foul. You are speculating like the rest of us.

[MGrand15]

Just saying, if you want the Utah DWill, give him back his power forward. The pick and roll is a huge weapn when run effectively and nobody ran it better than DWill and Booz.

brining back utah players wont bring back utah dwill. he has several injuries he didnt have then, he isnt nearly in the shape he was then, and his confidence wasnt what it was then. and like i said, our PnR here suffers mainly because of williams, not his teammates.

Are you laughing because you don't think Deron is at fault for not making Reggie Evans a devastating pick and roll option? Or is it because you don't think Deron is at fault for Reggie and Crash's man clogging up the lane every time Lopez tries to roll?

ITS MAINLY DERON'S FAULT.

I mean, look how much success Steve Nash is having running the pick and roll without shooters and without pick and roll players. A good PG thrives no matter what.

[Paradise]

Yeah, I'm not surprised Greg Pop and his staff wouldn't want some high quality IQ Euro players that would flourish in a system that is not ISO oriented.

[enetric]

If these Bledsoe for Millsap rumors have any substance we are not getting anyone in trade this deadline.

Best case of Hump for Gordon and maybe a young throw in.

Eh, I'm pretty good with waiting til next year, but it is still kind of disappointing just for the simple fact of all the chatter and then nothing.

Oh well.

I have felt this way from the beginning. Look, without a large expiring our assets are lousy. Unless we can flip Hump for someone on a bigger, WORSE contract...why take that guy if you are another team. We both know it. He is an undesirable. Least popular player in the NBA, overpaid...little talent. He is an Eddy Curry like contract. A guy worth most in his LAST year.

For me, the best options have been Dwight last second should he push for it, or Josh Smith in a 3 way deal where there is something Ferry actually wants. I think we agree...Ferry doesnt get a decent offer he does nothing. ANd after that...I liked my crazy idea where we deal for BOTH overpaid veteran Celtics...the motivation being cash saving for them allowing us to pay less in assets. I mean..we read interested KG teams....but any Pierce ones? So if we said...we'll take both? ANd if we can turn Crash into an expiring...why not? I think that deal is doable and its one I think KG would waive his NT for.

I think we also share the same fear. that King will make a deal just to make one.

we have ZERO chance to get one of pierce/KG, let alone both

It is highly unlikely. But zero chance? I have to disagree.

See, you and I agree that our tradeable assets beyond Lopez are trash. And that our one true chance to become a contender is to get monumentally better...not just PF position upgrade. So the big challenge is how do you get someone to give you a massive lopsided deal talent wise if you dont have the picks or prospects they would want? Well, there is only one other way. Can you save them massive amounts of cash? Are you on of few teams if not the one team who would actually take on not one but both of your veteran contracts?

See, KG can be dealt for sure...that is IF he were to agree. I think Pierce is harder to trade. But I think if you were willing to take on Pierce...and went to KG with an idea to keep them together without giving up your 3 best players to acquire them...you just might have something.

So the far fetched point is....if Boston is in fact sellers...yes, its not impossible that we could be very logical buyers.

Can we get say the Spurs to take Crash for Jax expiring? Might cost us Bogdonovic...but I could see that move making a lot of sense for them. And can you at the very least turn Hump into say Hedo and his partially guaranteed deal? Ship those contracts to Boston, add Teletovic...and picks and you saved Boston a fortune.

So unlikely? Absolutely. But the far fetched works here because its the rare scenario where its could end up being one thing tied to the next one.