Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II

[hands11]

If Ariza picks up his option this summer, we'll really only have two immediate holes to fill: 3rd guard and/or backup PG & another wing shooter, possibly a starter or a sixth man.

I think we can use our MLE this summer to sign both of those players. I already posted a list of SGs and SFs for the wing position (though not all of them are necessarily shooters). Here's a list of potential candidates for the third guard/backup PG spot:

- Rodney Stuckey
- Chauncey Billups
- Mo Williams
- Jose Calderon
- Jarrett Jack
- DJ Augustin
- Devin Harris
- Mario Chalmers
- Daniel Gibson
- Beno Udrih
- Nate Robinson
- AJ Price
- Will Bynum
- Nolan Smith
- Earl Watson
- Royal Ivey
- Sebastian Telfair
- Randy Foye
- Tony Allen
- Leandro Barbosa

Pretty decent sized list and we only need one. I think we could probably get a pretty good player

I really don't think there is a need at all to spend the draft pick on a backup guard, or even a starting caliber SF. The only way I'd draft those positions is if they were the clear cut BPA.

What we won't be able to find for cheap and easy in FA is a starting center. A position we will have to fill by the end of next year. I don't trust Seraphin to be that guy frankly. I think we need to use our assets, best of which is this lotto pick, to solidify that position long term either by drafting and developing a guy or putting together a package for one via trade.

I think it would be a less than ideal situation to draft Shabazz with a high pick unless we know for a fact he can start at SF and play almost full time there. I think it would be a bad situation to draft McLemore, Oladipo, or Smart with our pick since, let's be real, we'll never get a proper return on investment for them. Who is going to pay us through the nose for them when they know we can't use them?

And I think it would be an abject failure to come away from this draft with only McCollum, MCW, or Burke.

Especially since this is such a top heavy big man crop.

I say the team has to retain Webster. He is to much a part of the core locker room leadership. They aren't ready to transition away from him just yet and they could make it work where he is here for 3-4 years which wouldn't suck.

Trevor A I could see going either way but bird in the hand says he takes the option and then decides where he wants to go once that option is over. I think he takes it and stays another year. If they pick Otto, they move Webster to back up SG until they trade Trevor A. Then Webster can go back to SF and they have to go find a bench SG. Trevor A can pick his own spot the following year.

Price has the remainder of the year to secure back up PG. If not, they need to add one.

Back up center 7-0 is a huge hole. They need to add that. Ves got some minutes last game but he has a lot of prove to secure that spot. I don't think adding a center is this draft will cause a problem one way or another. Its just depth as they work out how long they keep Okafor. I could see adding a center and keeping Okafor and Ves for another year.

The key to this draft will be adding players who at a min can retain value. They will start the year off the bench and if they prove themselves, they can win a starting spot later in the year. If they just play ok, you can package them in a trade and look again toward next years draft.

I would be surprised if the Wizards make any wholesale changes to replace starters or the little bit of quality they have at backup... meaning Trevor A.

They have room to add, 2rd SG, 2nd PG, 2nd Center, 2nd SF if they move Webster to 2nd SG. So they have lots of options.

I say 2nd C and 2nd SG are the biggest holes. Then probably 2nd PG then 2nd SF.

So unless they are convinced Otto can be a stud starter or he is BPA that can retain his value, they may choose another direction.

Its a tough call this year. Lots of ways they can play it that work well. Victor O, Otta, Burke, or a center. Its all works.

[nate33]

Korver and Budinger don't defend well. C.Brewer can't shoot. So we're really only talking about Webster, Smith, Ronnie Brewer and Dorrell Wright as guys who could conceivably start. Smith is probably unobtainable (and generally bad for team chemistry). None of these guys are better than what I project Porter will become.

Whether you're consciously doing it or not, I think you've needlessly limited our options to serve an agenda that Porter would be a great need pick despite the position he plays.

You and I both know that most of the guys you claim suck or are too old would be fine on a one or two year deal. By your unexplained criteria I'm guessing you would have said Martell sucks before this year too.

It's a simple truism that "wing shooter" is the easiest position in the NBA to fill. Do you really want to argue against that?

I don't think Porter is merely a "wing shooter". I think he could be a very good all around player and a top 10ish SF in this league. He's basically a Nicolas Batum who cares about defense. I'd rather have a top 10ish SF than reach for an undersized C like Zeller, a redundant catch-and-shoot guard like McLemore, a tunnel-visioned one-dimensional wing scorer like Shabazz (who is undersized for SF) or a 6-7 PF like Bennett.

I'd keep Webster too. That gives us 3 quality wings.

Now if there was a high quality, starting caliber big man available when Porter was still on the board, I'd take the big. The only guy I see in this draft that fits that description is Noel.

[pancakes3]

I'm looking at the 2013 FA list and I have some thoughts.

1 - We should sign Jarrett Jack just so he would be on our team and won't be able to wreck us for whatever team dejour he plays on anymore.
2 - I wouldn't mind Nate Robinson as a 3rd guard either. He could be had for potentially cheaper than Crawford.
3 - KMart will be looking at slightly above Rip Hamilton money. I'd guess 6 mil a year, give or take. A sucker's signing though considering the 2 that follow.
4 - Nick Young is a free agent. I might be in the minority but I'd love for SwaggyP to come back to the district as long as it's for 3 mil/year or less.
5 - Anthony Morrow is a real steal. It's weird how he's getting passed from team to team. Maybe he's a headcase, but man... what a talent to be had for so cheap.
6 - I don't think anyone out there really beats Webster as far as FA SF's go. The only names that I can see that would make for good signings (but really lateral moves) would be Dorrell Wright and Chase Budinger. And I agree with Nate: all 3 of those guys won't amount to the player that Porter is.
7 - Deserved or not, JJ Hickson is going to have a payday. It's a combination of him having a really good season and there being no other PF's of note other than Josh Smith. West is over the hill, Millsap is not as good as his numbers advertise, and everyone else is ancient.

[nuposse04]

Your reasoning for Porters lack of ability to be an AS are because a lack of physical attributes? No offense man, but you champion a guy like Zellar who has physical limitations that are just as apparent, if not more vulgar then Porters.

The only, and I mean only reason I pause when considering Porter is because I think his standing vertical might be like 27 inches. Outside of leaping, he is fine everywhere else. He's positionally a better defender then anyone else in his category, great rebounder, scorer, and isn't a black hole on offense. He has the frame to add on weight. I suspect he'll be able to do so. It isn't like he's as weak as durant out there.

Durant actually has more length and bulk than Porter does and even he struggles a bit with wings. Porter is a bean pole who has been pushed around by college wings. Durant is also a far better athlete than Porter, far better scorer, far better everything really so he can cope with his relative lack of strength. Porter does not have the handle and ISO scoring ability of an AS SF either.

Zeller is physically limited? He's a tremendous athlete for his position, very fast, very coordinated, an explosive above the rim player. He lacks strength certainly. But again, so does Porter. And Zeller is a 5, a far more valuable position and a position where there are far fewer great athletes running around in the NBA. The delta of his level of athleticism against his position is night and day bigger than Porter's.

Durant came into the league as a twig, the analogy was the demonstrate that someone with a slight frame like Porter's can still add on "good" weight without being a detriment to his overall game. Durant had none of those features coming into the league either, but he can very well develop them. Durant only recently became a good passer, he didn't come into the league as much of anything else other than a catch and shoot guy. He is a better leaper though than Porter, that much is obvious. He's pretty stupid still on defensive rotations though.

I have seen, 2 plays, only two plays of all the Indiana games I've seen where Zeller did anything remotely like "hey that is pretty athletic." Even then, his dunks are no where in the vicinity of truly elite athlete big men like Griffin, Jordan, LMA, McGee, Booker, Drummond, Davis, Lopez(for his size he is athletic), Bosh, Robinson, LBJ, Chandler, hell even Biyombo are all more imposing athletes then him. He's not "very fast" either...Maybe fast for college standards at the 5 but he'd be no gazelle in the NBA. Truthfully I want my center to be rebounding then leaking out, so that quality goes for nothing unless we want Javale McGee part 2. His coordination is his best asset although he isn't a good passer, hasn't really improved in that area, and his recent struggles with collegiate players with NBA size should be a giant red flag. Zeller's height will be pointless, I havent seen any legitimate source refute his DX measurements. He absolutely has to measure well at the combine for me to believe he's lottery worthy.

He's also added weight from last year, and still has trouble with strength...there is going to be a point where his weight will be detrimental to his quickness. He's better off working on a mid range J and becoming pick and pop 4.

[hands11]

- Manu Ginobli - zero chance we get him
- Kevin Martin - zero chance we get him
- Kyle Korver
- Martell Webster
- Randy Foye - can't play SF
- Tony Allen - zero chance we get him
- J.J. Redick - can't play SF
- Carlos Delfino - sucks
- JR Smith
- Nick Young - um, no.
- Ronnie Brewer
- Rip Hamilton - too old
- Marquise Daniels - sucks
- Anthony Morrow - too small
- Raja Bell - too old
- Leandro Barbosa - too old
- Wesley Johnson - sucks
- Marco Belinelli - sucks
- Mike Dunleavey - too old
- Dahntay Jones - sucks
- Keith Bogans - sucks
- Roger Mason - sucks
- Stephen Jackson - too old
- Dorrell Wright
- Chase Budinger
- Corey Brewer
- Josh Howard - too old
- Corey Maggette - too old
- Matt Barnes - only plays for contenders
- Demarre Carroll - sucks
- Sam Young - sucks
- Luke Babbitt - sucks
- Francisco Garcia - sucks
- Cartier Martin - sucks
- Jerry Stackhouse - too old
- Luke Walton - sucks
- Hedo Turkoglu - too old
- Al Harrington - too old

So let's look at the list of actual possibilities:
- Kyle Korver
- Martell Webster
- JR Smith
- Ronnie Brewer
- Dorrell Wright
- Chase Budinger
- Corey Brewer

Korver and Budinger don't defend well. C.Brewer can't shoot. So we're really only talking about Webster, Smith, Ronnie Brewer and Dorrell Wright as guys who could conceivably start. Smith is probably unobtainable (and generally bad for team chemistry). None of these guys are better than what I project Porter will become.

That's one serious list trimming you just did, but accurate.

And in the end of all that, we already have Martell Webster who is nailing it from 3, team leader and he likes it here. How about we just keep him. I mean we finally found a nice piece after trying out a bunch. Why create a need where we don't have one. Web can play SF or SG and he is great in the locker room. At 26/27, he isn't too young for the younger players and he isn't to old to connect with the older vets. I would like to see him kept around at least another year.

This is a scary year in the rebuild. Last year was easy. SG was the clear need and Beal was the clear choice.

This year they have several spots they can fill and fringe players to deal with. Almost anything could happen.

[popper]

I don't know enough about Len to render an opinion but at 7'1 with most draft boards having him top ten why wouldn't he be a good choice for us. I love Porter but we desperately need a big to groom. What exactly are his shortcomings?

[stevemcqueen1]

Durant came into the league as a twig, the analogy was the demonstrate that someone with a slight frame like Porter's can still add on "good" weight without being a detriment to his overall game. Durant had none of those features coming into the league either, but he can very well develop them. Durant only recently became a good passer, he didn't come into the league as much of anything else other than a catch and shoot guy. He is a better leaper though than Porter, that much is obvious. He's pretty stupid still on defensive rotations though.

You're comparing him to Durant here, compared him to Melo in an earlier post. Porter isn't even on the same planet as those two. It's time to step back and check the runaway hype train on Porter when you're looking at Durant and Melo as what he can be in the NBA.

Saying Durant was just a catch and shoot player when he came into the league is comical.

I have seen, 2 plays, only two plays of all the Indiana games I've seen where Zeller did anything remotely like "hey that is pretty athletic." Even then, his dunks are no where in the vicinity of truly elite athlete big men like Griffin, Jordan, LMA, McGee, Booker, Drummond, Davis, Lopez(for his size he is athletic), Bosh, Robinson, LBJ, Chandler, hell even Biyombo are all more imposing athletes then him. He's not "very fast" either...Maybe fast for college standards at the 5 but he'd be no gazelle in the NBA. Truthfully I want my center to be rebounding then leaking out, so that quality goes for nothing unless we want Javale McGee part 2. His coordination is his best asset although he isn't a good passer, hasn't really improved in that area, and his recent struggles with collegiate players with NBA size should be a giant red flag. Zeller's height will be pointless, I havent seen any legitimate source refute his DX measurements. He absolutely has to measure well at the combine for me to believe he's lottery worthy.

He's also added weight from last year, and still has trouble with strength...there is going to be a point where his weight will be detrimental to his quickness. He's better off working on a mid range J and becoming pick and pop 4.

DX does not have official measurements for Zeller's arm length. They've got rumored and unofficial measurements from things like the LeBron camps and the Nike skills camps. Who knows where they got their estimate for Zeller's arm length?

And even if you assume their measurement is correct, you're placing far too much importance on arm length as a determinant of NBA success. If it were as important as you seem to think it is, then Jason Maxiell and Bismack Biyombo would be amazing. It doesn't even come close to negating all of the positives Zeller brings to the table.

And you can think what you want about Zeller's athleticism, we've had this discussion before and I don't really care to go around in circles again. You're just wrong and nobody agrees with you. Everyone lists his athleticism as a strength.

[nate33]

That's one serious list trimming you just did, but accurate.

And in the end of all that, we already have Martell Webster who is nailing it from 3, team leader and he likes it here. How about we just keep him. I mean we finally found a nice piece after trying out a bunch. Why create a need where we don't have one. Web can play SF or SG and he is great in the locker room. At 26/27, he isn't too young for the younger players and he isn't to old to connect with the older vets. I would like to see him kept around at least another year.

This is a scary year in the rebuild. Last year was easy. SG was the clear need and Beal was the clear choice.

This year they have several spots they can fill and fringe players to deal with. Almost anything could happen.

I agree, hands11. Webster is by far my first choice of that group. Having a multiple-name list is only noteworthy because it should help keep Webster's asking price down. If Webster wants $6M a year, we'll just bring in Chase Buddinger or Dorrell Wright and move on. I'd really prefer Webster though.

[hands11]

Steve bringing it strong.



This should get interesting.

[DCsOwn]

Your reasoning for Porters lack of ability to be an AS are because a lack of physical attributes? No offense man, but you champion a guy like Zellar who has physical limitations that are just as apparent, if not more vulgar then Porters.

The only, and I mean only reason I pause when considering Porter is because I think his standing vertical might be like 27 inches. Outside of leaping, he is fine everywhere else. He's positionally a better defender then anyone else in his category, great rebounder, scorer, and isn't a black hole on offense. He has the frame to add on weight. I suspect he'll be able to do so. It isn't like he's as weak as durant out there.

Durant actually has more length and bulk than Porter does and even he struggles a bit with wings. Porter is a bean pole who has been pushed around by college wings.

How much have you actually watched Porter play? I'm asking this because you've said a number of really curious things about the kid over the last few weeks that are patently false. You said two weeks ago that Porter only scores on putbacks and three pointers and that his high end efficiency is derived purely from not stepping outside of the offense. Demonstrably false. I told you that he scored anywhere on the court in virtually every manner imaginable and Porter supported my position with myriad huge scoring games since then where he put the team on his back. Now you're claiming that Porter has been pushed around by college wings? When did this happen? Who are these wings? Gtown has put Porter on guards, small and power forwards in the times that they've gone away from the zone and he's done tremendously well. He's also Gtown's best rebounder and routinely boxes out and rebounds over larger players in the Big East. There's been one game all season where Porter perhaps underperformed from a physicality perspective and that was to Pitt in a game where Gtown really just didnt play with much energy and they were still searching for themselves and got smoked. Beyond that he's performed tremendously well against athletic, long teams from Indiana and UCLA to Syracuse, Cincinnati and Louisville.

[stevemcqueen1]

How much have you actually watched Porter play? I'm asking this because you've said a number of really curious things about the kid over the last few weeks that are patently false. You said two weeks ago that Porter only scores on putbacks and three pointers and that his high end efficiency is derived purely from not stepping outside of the offense. Demonstrably false. I told you that he scored anywhere on the court in virtually every manner imaginable and Porter supported my position with myriad huge scoring games since then where he put the team on his back. Now you're claiming that Porter has been pushed around by college wings? When did this happen? Who are these wings? Gtown has put Porter on guards, small and power forwards in the times that they've gone away from the zone and he's done tremendously well. He's also Gtown's best rebounder and routinely boxes out and rebounds over larger players in the Big East. There's been one game all season where Porter perhaps underperformed from a physicality perspective and that was to Pitt in a game where Gtown really just didnt play with much energy and they were still searching for themselves and got smoked. Beyond that he's performed tremendously well against athletic, long teams from Indiana and UCLA to Syracuse, Cincinnati and Louisville.

I've seen him play five or six times this season. My opinion isn't solely based on those games though, it's also supported by what I've read from places I trust like DX.

You can see Porter getting pushed around starting at the 6:00 mark of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... LKl98IkCWg

Otto Porter is listed at the same weight he was last season.

[AFM]

BEST HOYA SINCE AI

[DCsOwn]

How much have you actually watched Porter play? I'm asking this because you've said a number of really curious things about the kid over the last few weeks that are patently false. You said two weeks ago that Porter only scores on putbacks and three pointers and that his high end efficiency is derived purely from not stepping outside of the offense. Demonstrably false. I told you that he scored anywhere on the court in virtually every manner imaginable and Porter supported my position with myriad huge scoring games since then where he put the team on his back. Now you're claiming that Porter has been pushed around by college wings? When did this happen? Who are these wings? Gtown has put Porter on guards, small and power forwards in the times that they've gone away from the zone and he's done tremendously well. He's also Gtown's best rebounder and routinely boxes out and rebounds over larger players in the Big East. There's been one game all season where Porter perhaps underperformed from a physicality perspective and that was to Pitt in a game where Gtown really just didnt play with much energy and they were still searching for themselves and got smoked. Beyond that he's performed tremendously well against athletic, long teams from Indiana and UCLA to Syracuse, Cincinnati and Louisville.

I've seen him play five or six times this season. My opinion isn't solely based on those games though, it's also supported by what I've read from places I trust like DX.

You can see Porter getting pushed around starting at the 6:00 mark of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... LKl98IkCWg

Otto Porter is listed at the same weight he was last season.

You just cleared up quite a bit with this post. The reason it seems like you're describing a different player so often in your analysis of Porter is because you quite literally are. Porter is probably the most improved player in the country, and you're still using scouting footage from his freshman year to formulate an opinion on his game. In retrospect, that should've been apparent from the beginning I think.

[hands11]

[youtube]http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Cody-Zeller-6241/[/youtube]

If this is his best in a demo reel, Hmmmmm. I see a lot that I don't think will translate.

They say he plays over the rim ? His dunks looks like they are barely making it and he is falling over to get them there to often for my liking.

All that garbage around the basket is going to get swatted in the pros though he pump fakes well.
Leaking out of fast breaks is no way for a center to pay the bills in the NBA.
Poor man defender with bad lateral quickness. He can't be a starting center if he can't defend.
To weak to hold position. Not aggressive enough. 6' 8" wingspan

What will translate
Some of that post game spins moves will definitely translate. That his best offense.
Position D, taking charges, and hedging on the P&R is good.
Some of those pump fakes will work

My advice. He better develop a really nice outside shot because I'm not seeing an NBA starting center.

More then anything I saw Vesely with a spin move and less leaping ability.

For me, I would rather have Witney who is a post defender with a long reach that blocks shot and who will come a lot more cheaply then Zeller. If we get a top pick, I want a lot better the Zeller for it. I would rather take Victor O, Otto, CJM, Burke. If I really wanted a center and we can't get Noel, I would take Len over Zeller. I might even consider Kelly Olynyk if I wanted to stretch the floor as a back up. He even has some nice hook moves. He show some offensive skills. Can't jump though. If you want to go for upside, you pick Isaiah Austin. Good kid. Religious like Beal and Nene. Some are comparing him to A Davis and his favorite player is Durant. He needs to add weight but he is only 19. For me, I wouldn't risk it. I see a tall thin McGee. We don't have the time for that.

There are a lot of centers in the draft but a lot of question marks. Noel and Len look like decent bets to be productive. Withey won't disappoint for where he is sloted. Austin is your willing to gamble and be patient but I wouldn't take him from what I've seen. I would stay away from Zeller and Plumlee as well. I wouldn't be surprised if Cody Z goes 10 or later.

[DCZards]

Hands, I've become a fan of Withey as well. He's tougher and more physical than both Zeller and Len, and I like the fire and emotion he plays with.

[nuposse04]

Durant came into the league as a twig, the analogy was the demonstrate that someone with a slight frame like Porter's can still add on "good" weight without being a detriment to his overall game. Durant had none of those features coming into the league either, but he can very well develop them. Durant only recently became a good passer, he didn't come into the league as much of anything else other than a catch and shoot guy. He is a better leaper though than Porter, that much is obvious. He's pretty stupid still on defensive rotations though.

You're comparing him to Durant here, compared him to Melo in an earlier post. Porter isn't even on the same planet as those two. It's time to step back and check the runaway hype train on Porter when you're looking at Durant and Melo as what he can be in the NBA.

Saying Durant was just a catch and shoot player when he came into the league is comical.

You need to learn how past arguments tie together. In the past I've said that he could be an all around better player than Melo, mostly cause outside of volume scoring at relatively good clip, Melo is fairly average in EVERY other aspect of his game. I brought up Durant because of their builds (NOT an athletic comparison). Porter is skinny, his DX page from a year un-updated had him at 200 lbs if I recall correctly. The official team web page this year is at 205, so he's added a little, at the very least a sign of progress. And if you had been watching games this year, you would have noticed his superior lack of strength isn't a hindrance to him. I also think it is fair to extrapolate a 19 year old will be able to add proper weight at a reasonable rate given his frame. Durant's frame was ever frailer then his, he still managed to put on lbs.

Regarding Durant his rookie season: http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ting/2008/

While I can't determine from this how many times he was actually using an ISO situation, I think it is pretty obvious, he was primarily a jumpshooter in his rookie season. Kudos are given to Durant because he developed into something better. I think it should also be noted that Durant wasn't as efficient from 3pt land as Porter, which is kind of funny. And lets not act like the Hoyas' system is conducive to astronomically good offensive stats. Porter will never be as good as Durant, but to immediately deem his future to be nothing better then a 3 and D forward is a bit premature when the stats are viewed within proper context.

I have seen, 2 plays, only two plays of all the Indiana games I've seen where Zeller did anything remotely like "hey that is pretty athletic." Even then, his dunks are no where in the vicinity of truly elite athlete big men like Griffin, Jordan, LMA, McGee, Booker, Drummond, Davis, Lopez(for his size he is athletic), Bosh, Robinson, LBJ, Chandler, hell even Biyombo are all more imposing athletes then him. He's not "very fast" either...Maybe fast for college standards at the 5 but he'd be no gazelle in the NBA. Truthfully I want my center to be rebounding then leaking out, so that quality goes for nothing unless we want Javale McGee part 2. His coordination is his best asset although he isn't a good passer, hasn't really improved in that area, and his recent struggles with collegiate players with NBA size should be a giant red flag. Zeller's height will be pointless, I havent seen any legitimate source refute his DX measurements. He absolutely has to measure well at the combine for me to believe he's lottery worthy.

He's also added weight from last year, and still has trouble with strength...there is going to be a point where his weight will be detrimental to his quickness. He's better off working on a mid range J and becoming pick and pop 4.

DX does not have official measurements for Zeller's arm length. They've got rumored and unofficial measurements from things like the LeBron camps and the Nike skills camps. Who knows where they got their estimate for Zeller's arm length?

And even if you assume their measurement is correct, you're placing far too much importance on arm length as a determinant of NBA success. If it were as important as you seem to think it is, then Jason Maxiell and Bismack Biyombo would be amazing. It doesn't even come close to negating all of the positives Zeller brings to the table.

And you can think what you want about Zeller's athleticism, we've had this discussion before and I don't really care to go around in circles again. You're just wrong and nobody agrees with you. Everyone lists his athleticism as a strength.

Ok here's the thing that is interesting about all this...You cite DX as a way to reinforce the notion that Zeller is a shoe in top 3 lottery pick.....but...you can't use their scouting video as some sort of tool propping him and then then dismiss their measurements cause it doesn't fit your narrative. This is NOT Burger King, you cannot have it your way.

Also, what part of that highlight reel showed uber athleticism? He had like one reverse dunk that was nice, everything else was of the ho-hum Okachamberlain variety. His physique isn't what makes him an attractive player. I doubt i'm in the minority who think Zeller is fairly standard as an overall athlete.

Above average quickness (cause he's really a slightly taller 4 tbh)
Below average strength
Average hops (there is nothing spectacular about his leaping ability, I can rattle off names of 4/5s who are better leapers if you like)
Below average length (until you can cite me something that says otherwise, other than yourself that is)

I don't think either Porter or Zeller would change the fortunes of this franchise...but if I had to guess which one is going to translate into a better pro, I'd have to go with Porter, he's improved radically since last season, Zeller hasn't. The combine ought to make a decision between the two easier.

[hands11]

Hands, I've become a fan of Withey as well. He's tougher and more physical than both Zeller and Len, and I like the fire and emotion he plays with.

Len seems like he has a decent motor though from what I saw. He seeks out contact and is very active. He is a little awkward at time but you can see him really trying. And if he is 7-1 255 at 19, he is going to fill out more. I think I heard he just added some decent weight from last year. But honestly, something about being over 7-0 worries me. 6-11 and long armed seems about perfect for a center. 7-0 usually start getting a little awkward. 7-1 and starts getting dicey. Now Shaq was a athletic tank so it worked for him.

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=330632305
But Withey just seems like he has low bust potential. He may never be a great starter but with your second pick, if you need a solid back up center who might be able to start one day, he would be perfect. Probably be in the league 10 years. He should get stronger as well. And at 22, he is more mature. Should be able to give you decent production right away. If you draft him and keep Okafor, you have bought some time to figure our Okafors eventual replacement while evaluating Withey. Use the top pick on another known.

You just don't want to reach in a draft like this. Not when your in the rebuild stage the Wizards are. They have a decent 6 players rotation with the starters and Trevor A. Now they need solid depth with players that fit well in the locker room to keep this culture change rolling. Can't pick a top pick that isn't going to retain their value. Victor O and Otto seem almost curtain to retain value in my eyes. Even if Victor O seems like over kill as a back up SG, I'm fine with that. Let him produce and develop and then pick him or Beal in 2-3 years and cash in.

This has been a good rebuild from where they were. They got a lot accomplish turning things around but its still fragile depending on how they transition. Lots of questions. We still don't even know for sure if Wall is a long term keeper. I wouldn't pick anyone I didn't know I could move for value in their second year if needed. No Ves or Kevin S types. We already have two like that named Ves and Kevin S.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Hands, I've become a fan of Withey as well. He's tougher and more physical than both Zeller and Len, and I like the fire and emotion he plays with.

Yes. I actually haven't watched him a whole lot this year, but I saw enough of him last year to know that I think he's gonna be a solid pro.

Porter is the guy I want for this team. Like Beal last year, he's got what this team needs. The skills, the smarts, the intangibles, to seamlessly fit in.

But to add Withey as well would be an outright coup IMO. I'm really hoping he somehow drops to our 2nd round pick. If we could deal our later 2nd to move up a couple spots for him it's a no brainer.

As of now I'm calling a Porter/Withey draft. This would make me very happy. I think both of these guys would be great additions to this team as otherwise currently constructed.

[thricethefun]

I'm getting scared the Wizards will slip to picking 9th in this draft and end up drafting Plumlee or Austin. So many teams are at the 19-23 win range right now and if the Wizards keep playing well and the other teams keep sucking/tanking we could realistically finish with the 9th worst record. By that time all the good prospects will be gone.

[hands11]

Hands, I've become a fan of Withey as well. He's tougher and more physical than both Zeller and Len, and I like the fire and emotion he plays with.

Yes. I actually haven't watched him a whole lot this year, but I saw enough of him last year to know that I think he's gonna be a solid pro.

Porter is the guy I want for this team. Like Beal last year, he's got what this team needs. The skills, the smarts, the intangibles, to seamlessly fit in.

But to add Withey as well would be an outright coup IMO. I'm really hoping he somehow drops to our 2nd round pick. If we could deal our later 2nd to move up a couple spots for him it's a no brainer.

As of now I'm calling a Porter/Withey draft. This would make me very happy. I think both of these guys would be great additions to this team as otherwise currently constructed.

So here is the all important question....

If you had the #1 or you know you could get Noel with the #2, would you trade it for two firsts if you could get Porter or Victor O and Withey. Cuz I don't think he is going to the 2nd round as much as I think he will rise in the first. Maybe I'm wrong and his age keeps him lower. But that beside the point. Would you trade a top 2 pick down for two #1 if that was the only way to get him.

I really hope they find a way to get two number ones. Unless there are second round picks that are just as good. I have seen a few posted. Snaer, McDermott but I don't see a center there as good as Withey.