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Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II

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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#181 » by hands11 » Tue Mar 5, 2013 4:15 am

thricethefun wrote:I'm getting scared the Wizards will slip to picking 9th in this draft and end up drafting Plumlee or Austin. So many teams are at the 19-23 win range right now and if the Wizards keep playing well and the other teams keep sucking/tanking we could realistically finish with the 9th worst record. By that time all the good prospects will be gone.


Even the longest of long shots at the playoffs are lost. MIL is 2 over .500 now. They slammed the door shut. No reason to blow our draft slotting over to many meaningless wins. The surgical tank is now in play. They did a good job of it last year.

I think they will let Beal heal up. And after Walls last game heroics I expect him to be in full on hero mode next game. Specially with Beal out. Expect 6 plus turnovers on .35% shooting or worse in a lose. Then we go to Brooklyn for another lose. They should help our slotting :wink:

They showed what they needed to turn things around. When healthy they are good. Beal is legit. They are a great defensive team and they can hit the 3 ball. Now they need depth. Ted said both 3 is unexceptionable. So they finish 4th or 5th for good measure.


Wow. The machine is up. I love playing this. Owww. I got Noel with the 3rd pick. :D

Wow, I can't believe Smart would go 2nd. I could be way wrong here but I'm not seeing it.

Double Wow. It has Smart going #1 to Orlando if they get the pick.

http://espn.go.com/nba/lottery2013/mockdraft
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#182 » by hands11 » Tue Mar 5, 2013 4:36 am

I just got this.

Orlando - Smart
B Cats - McLemore
Det - Victor O
Wiz - Noel
Cavs - Len
NO - Porter
King - Shabazz
Suns - Bennett
Wolves - Zeller
Thunder - Carter Williams
Sixer - Plumlee
Mavs - Harris
Cats - Alex P
Suns - CJ McCollum

I would say Det, Wiz, Cavs and NO would be the winners of that draft. Suns get CJM though which would be nice for them. Bennett seems like a he would do well on a losing team. Good fit.

We would have Noel going against Len with the Cavs. Nasty. But if Det gets Victor O that would suck. Man, the Cavs should be ready to bust out soon with all that young talent. They would be stock piling centers. I would guess they take Otto instead which would really suck.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#183 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Tue Mar 5, 2013 4:55 am

hands11 wrote:
DCZards wrote:Hands, I've become a fan of Withey as well. He's tougher and more physical than both Zeller and Len, and I like the fire and emotion he plays with.



So here is the all important question....

If you had the #1 or you know you could get Noel with the #2, would you trade it for two firsts if you could get Porter or Victor O and Withey. Cuz I don't think he is going to the 2nd round as much as I think he will rise in the first. Maybe I'm wrong and his age keeps him lower. But that beside the point. Would you trade a top 2 pick down for two #1 if that was the only way to get him.

I really hope they find a way to get two number ones. Unless there are second round picks that are just as good. I have seen a few posted. Snaer, McDermott but I don't see a center there as good as Withey.



To answer, yes. I would trade down in the 1st round if it resulted in Porter and Withey. The only other possible 2nd round centers I see are Patric Young, who I do have some interest in. A former teammate of Beal's, and a guy my 1st impression was could be another Ben Wallace. But games I've watched him I haven't come away overly impressed, and he's possibly more suited to PF at 6-8. Mike Muscala is another possibility, intriguing scouting report but I've never seen him play. But Withey would be my preference, and worth moving up for.

Oh by the way updated mock on nbadraft.net now has Wizards taking Porter at #3.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#184 » by AFM » Tue Mar 5, 2013 5:00 am

hands, I cant see Noel dropping to 4 bro.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#185 » by nuposse04 » Tue Mar 5, 2013 5:40 am

http://walterfootball.com/nbadraft2013mock.php

they have us taking Shabazz over Porter, pre college season, I would a jumped on that...unless UCLA has a spectacular run in the tourney, I'm not so sure I'd entertain that anymore. Shabazz has way more upside, but his mental issues are...well...worrisome.

If the draft were today I'd guess it'd go:

Cha-Noel
Orl-McLemore
Wash-Porter
Cle- Shabazz
Sac-Smart
Phx-Zeller/Bennet (whichever measures better I'd imagine)
Minn-Oladipo
Det-Best guard available
OKC-Best big available (Zeller/Austin/Len, I'd go with Len probably)
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#186 » by hands11 » Tue Mar 5, 2013 5:48 am

AFM wrote:hands, I cant see Noel dropping to 4 bro.



http://espn.go.com/nba/lottery2013/mockdraft

Don't blame the messenger. Just telling you what this thing said.

It seems to have us locked into Noel or Len regardless of where we pick 1 through 6
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#187 » by AFM » Tue Mar 5, 2013 6:10 am

Yeah, I think that thing is wrong hands. I see Noel going first, and us taking Porter or Shabazz.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#188 » by WizardsWorld » Tue Mar 5, 2013 11:49 am

NBADRAFT.NET Just updated their mock today and it has us taking Porter at 3 !

They have:
1. Bobcats - McLemore
2. Magic - Smart
3. Wiz - Porter
4. Cavs - Noel
5. Kings - Muhammed

I see that more feasible. Noel would go #1 if he was healthy but I really cant see a top 3 team taking a chance on a guy with a torn ACL... So him going #4 to the Cavs would make more sense to me. And we get Porter so we would all be happy.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#189 » by stevemcqueen1 » Tue Mar 5, 2013 12:17 pm

WizardsWorld wrote:NBADRAFT.NET Just updated their mock today and it has us taking Porter at 3 !

They have:
1. Bobcats - McLemore
2. Magic - Smart
3. Wiz - Porter
4. Cavs - Noel
5. Kings - Muhammed

I see that more feasible. Noel would go #1 if he was healthy but I really cant see a top 3 team taking a chance on a guy with a torn ACL... So him going #4 to the Cavs would make more sense to me. And we get Porter so we would all be happy.


I don't think the ACL issue is going to be that big a deal. IMO it'll make Noel go from simply "clear cut #1 overall" to merely "top 3 lock."

When's the last time you heard of someone who didn't make a full recovery from an ACL injury? Especially at his age.

Also, I for one would not be happy if we took Porter over Noel.

Chad Ford has connections with NBA teams in a similar way to Kiper Jr has connections to NFL teams. He seems to have some indication we're going to take Noel then Len if they are on the board. He's heard something about those two bigs IMO, NBA teams with established perimeter players are going to draft them.

Ultimately, I think it makes sense too.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#190 » by stevemcqueen1 » Tue Mar 5, 2013 1:42 pm

thricethefun wrote:I'm getting scared the Wizards will slip to picking 9th in this draft and end up drafting Plumlee or Austin. So many teams are at the 19-23 win range right now and if the Wizards keep playing well and the other teams keep sucking/tanking we could realistically finish with the 9th worst record. By that time all the good prospects will be gone.


9th would be unlikely IMO.

I see a miniscule chance of us passing these lotto teams:
- Dallas
- Detroit
- Toronto
- Portland
- Whichever of Utah, GS, LA, or Houston doesn't make the playoffs

Detroit and Toronto are only four wins ahead of us but they are talented and are playing pretty well and should keep their cushion just maintaining course.

And I think it's very unlikely that we'll finish better than all of these teams:
- Sacramento
- Phoenix
- New Orleans
- Minnesota
- Cleveland
- Philadelphia

We'll probably beat several of them in win total, but some of them will keep winning and keep their lead just ahead of us. I'm thinking we could realistically finish about 7th from last in wins which would probably put us picking 7th or 8th.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#191 » by stevemcqueen1 » Tue Mar 5, 2013 1:56 pm

DCsOwn wrote:You just cleared up quite a bit with this post. The reason it seems like you're describing a different player so often in your analysis of Porter is because you quite literally are. Porter is probably the most improved player in the country, and you're still using scouting footage from his freshman year to formulate an opinion on his game. In retrospect, that should've been apparent from the beginning I think.


I've seen Porter play this year too. He's still a beanpole and he's still a grounded player who doesn't wow you with athleticism or any of his physical attributes. He's still not a player that breaks defenders down off the dribble or is a weapon with which he can attack multiple defenders off the dribble. He's become a three point shooter with a nice little mid range game that also does a pretty good job running the floor in transition and finishing his inside looks below the basket.

Look, I know you are a Georgetown homer, I know Porter's Q score is riding high after his last couple of games, and I understand this is a DC fan base, Porter's games are broadcast here regularly, and the buzz around him is going to be stronger here than anywhere else in the country. I realize I'm not going change any hearts on Porter right now. And I actually like Porter--I just question the certainty he's a top five pick, much less a top three pick. If he's a top five pick than it's an indictment of the class IMO. It fuels my position that our best bet is getting a big out of this class.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#192 » by closg00 » Tue Mar 5, 2013 2:09 pm

Last year we had to take Beal, this-year we Have to take Noel if we can get him. ....that or look forward to seeing Jan Vesely getting those minutes at C.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#193 » by DCsOwn » Tue Mar 5, 2013 2:45 pm

stevemcqueen1 wrote:
DCsOwn wrote:You just cleared up quite a bit with this post. The reason it seems like you're describing a different player so often in your analysis of Porter is because you quite literally are. Porter is probably the most improved player in the country, and you're still using scouting footage from his freshman year to formulate an opinion on his game. In retrospect, that should've been apparent from the beginning I think.


I've seen Porter play this year too. He's still a beanpole and he's still a grounded player who doesn't wow you with athleticism or any of his physical attributes. He's still not a player that breaks defenders down off the dribble or is a weapon with which he can attack multiple defenders off the dribble. He's become a three point shooter with a nice little mid range game that also does a pretty good job running the floor in transition and finishing his inside looks below the basket.

Look, I know you are a Georgetown homer, I know Porter's Q score is riding high after his last couple of games, and I understand this is a DC fan base, Porter's games are broadcast here regularly, and the buzz around him is going to be stronger here than anywhere else in the country. I realize I'm not going change any hearts on Porter right now. And I actually like Porter--I just question the certainty he's a top five pick, much less a top three pick. If he's a top five pick than it's an indictment of the class IMO. It fuels my position that our best bet is getting a big out of this class.


Correcting your flagrant misrepresentations of Porter has nothing to do with me being a homer. I'm not spending any time pimping Porter on this board despite being a Georgetown alum, but when I see ridiculously inaccurate characterizations of his ability, I'm not beyond spending a few moments to correct the record. Again, you claimed a few weeks ago that Porter didn't have a mid-range game, I corrected you on that point and you've revised your position since then. Yesterday you claimed that Porter has gotten pushed around by college wings, I pointed out that despite playing in arguably the most physical conference in college basketball, he's been a force in the post, offensively and defensively (when Georgetown plays man), he's rebounded the ball exceptionally well for a 3, he draws fouls at a solid rate (evidence that he doesn't play a perimeter game) and he's one of the main cogs on a top 3 defensive team in the Big East. There is nothing objective that you can point to that demonstrates that Porter has been a physical liability this season. In fact, the evidence completely controverts your position.

I disagree with your view of his athletic prowess as well, I think he's shown solid quickness, coordination and strength for a 19 year with his body type (tall and very long), and I don't think that he's even close to being physically mature yet. There is plenty of physical projection left in that body type, and I expect for him to get stronger, and a touch more explosive as he fills out his frame (to whatever degree he does), and physically comes into his own. He's clearly stronger now than he was a season ago and he already looks a step quicker than when he stepped on campus (although perhaps that's merely a function of him being more self-confident, allowing his athletic talent to shine through more readily).

I'm fine with you expressing your position on his perceived athletic limitations in your view, it's rooted in subjectivity so there's certainly room for postulation there, but when you make proclamations about things that are completely untrue and disprovable, I'll seek to correct the record on that front since I have first-hand knowledge on the matter.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#194 » by nate33 » Tue Mar 5, 2013 3:25 pm

hands11 wrote:So here is the all important question....

If you had the #1 or you know you could get Noel with the #2, would you trade it for two firsts if you could get Porter or Victor O and Withey. Cuz I don't think he is going to the 2nd round as much as I think he will rise in the first. Maybe I'm wrong and his age keeps him lower. But that beside the point. Would you trade a top 2 pick down for two #1 if that was the only way to get him.

I really hope they find a way to get two number ones. Unless there are second round picks that are just as good. I have seen a few posted. Snaer, McDermott but I don't see a center there as good as Withey.

No. I'd draft Noel at #1 and be happy. You have to look towards the future. Nene and Okafor will start to decline soon. We've got NOTHING in the pipeline.

Whitey is a solid player and might make an impact as a quality backup center or maybe even a serviceable starter like a Robin Lopez, but he's not a game changer. Noel looks more like the next Joakim Noah. Look at it this way. Let's assume for argument's sake that Porter pans out to be the next Batum. Would you rather have Batum and Robin Lopez at SF and C, or Webster and Noah?
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#195 » by nate33 » Tue Mar 5, 2013 3:27 pm

hands11 wrote:
thricethefun wrote:I'm getting scared the Wizards will slip to picking 9th in this draft and end up drafting Plumlee or Austin. So many teams are at the 19-23 win range right now and if the Wizards keep playing well and the other teams keep sucking/tanking we could realistically finish with the 9th worst record. By that time all the good prospects will be gone.


Even the longest of long shots at the playoffs are lost. MIL is 2 over .500 now. They slammed the door shut. No reason to blow our draft slotting over to many meaningless wins. The surgical tank is now in play. They did a good job of it last year.

I think they will let Beal heal up. And after Walls last game heroics I expect him to be in full on hero mode next game. Specially with Beal out. Expect 6 plus turnovers on .35% shooting or worse in a lose. Then we go to Brooklyn for another lose. They should help our slotting :wink:

Don't forget that EG is running the show and his #1 priority is to save his job. He won't condone tanking because a lousy record hurts his resume.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#196 » by nate33 » Tue Mar 5, 2013 3:30 pm

AFM wrote:hands, I cant see Noel dropping to 4 bro.

I can see it, but only if Detroit picks 3rd. There's a chance that teams with a center in place but in need of guards and wings (New Orleans, Orlando, Charlotte) take McLemore or Smart ahead of Noel, but I think all of them would take Noel once McLemore and Smart are gone. The only team in the lottery that absolutely cannot use a guy like Noel is Detroit. Of course, rather than draft someone else, they'd probably look to trade down.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#197 » by nate33 » Tue Mar 5, 2013 3:34 pm

hands11 wrote:
AFM wrote:hands, I cant see Noel dropping to 4 bro.



http://espn.go.com/nba/lottery2013/mockdraft

Don't blame the messenger. Just telling you what this thing said.

It seems to have us locked into Noel or Len regardless of where we pick 1 through 6

hands11, I ran a bunch of permutations of this a few days ago. Ford has us taking Noel if available and Len if he isn't. There was one scenario when both Noel and Len were gone and we took Bennett. (Apparently Ford thinks New Orleans would take Len if Noel is off the table.)

It's early though. Ford probably put that Mock together in mid-January just before Porter's ridiculous run through the Big East (and Len's rather lackluster showing in most ACC games). I'm fairly confident that Len will drop a bit in upcoming mocks and Porter will move up.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#198 » by Severn Hoos » Tue Mar 5, 2013 3:46 pm

nate33 wrote:Whitey is a solid player and ....


So was that typo unintentional? If so, that's one of the funniest I've seen in a long time. And if not, well, you better just stay away from the Politics thread. popper would be all over you. ;-)
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#199 » by nate33 » Tue Mar 5, 2013 3:49 pm

Severn Hoos wrote:
nate33 wrote:Whitey is a solid player and ....


So was that typo unintentional? If so, that's one of the funniest I've seen in a long time. And if not, well, you better just stay away from the Politics thread. popper would be all over you. ;-)

:D
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#200 » by Ruzious » Tue Mar 5, 2013 5:17 pm

DCsOwn wrote:
stevemcqueen1 wrote:
DCsOwn wrote:You just cleared up quite a bit with this post. The reason it seems like you're describing a different player so often in your analysis of Porter is because you quite literally are. Porter is probably the most improved player in the country, and you're still using scouting footage from his freshman year to formulate an opinion on his game. In retrospect, that should've been apparent from the beginning I think.


I've seen Porter play this year too. He's still a beanpole and he's still a grounded player who doesn't wow you with athleticism or any of his physical attributes. He's still not a player that breaks defenders down off the dribble or is a weapon with which he can attack multiple defenders off the dribble. He's become a three point shooter with a nice little mid range game that also does a pretty good job running the floor in transition and finishing his inside looks below the basket.

Look, I know you are a Georgetown homer, I know Porter's Q score is riding high after his last couple of games, and I understand this is a DC fan base, Porter's games are broadcast here regularly, and the buzz around him is going to be stronger here than anywhere else in the country. I realize I'm not going change any hearts on Porter right now. And I actually like Porter--I just question the certainty he's a top five pick, much less a top three pick. If he's a top five pick than it's an indictment of the class IMO. It fuels my position that our best bet is getting a big out of this class.


Correcting your flagrant misrepresentations of Porter has nothing to do with me being a homer. I'm not spending any time pimping Porter on this board despite being a Georgetown alum, but when I see ridiculously inaccurate characterizations of his ability, I'm not beyond spending a few moments to correct the record. Again, you claimed a few weeks ago that Porter didn't have a mid-range game, I corrected you on that point and you've revised your position since then. Yesterday you claimed that Porter has gotten pushed around by college wings, I pointed out that despite playing in arguably the most physical conference in college basketball, he's been a force in the post, offensively and defensively (when Georgetown plays man), he's rebounded the ball exceptionally well for a 3, he draws fouls at a solid rate (evidence that he doesn't play a perimeter game) and he's one of the main cogs on a top 3 defensive team in the Big East. There is nothing objective that you can point to that demonstrates that Porter has been a physical liability this season. In fact, the evidence completely controverts your position.

I disagree with your view of his athletic prowess as well, I think he's shown solid quickness, coordination and strength for a 19 year with his body type (tall and very long), and I don't think that he's even close to being physically mature yet. There is plenty of physical projection left in that body type, and I expect for him to get stronger, and a touch more explosive as he fills out his frame (to whatever degree he does), and physically comes into his own. He's clearly stronger now than he was a season ago and he already looks a step quicker than when he stepped on campus (although perhaps that's merely a function of him being more self-confident, allowing his athletic talent to shine through more readily).

I'm fine with you expressing your position on his perceived athletic limitations in your view, it's rooted in subjectivity so there's certainly room for postulation there, but when you make proclamations about things that are completely untrue and disprovable, I'll seek to correct the record on that front since I have first-hand knowledge on the matter.

I have to concur there - and I'm not a G-town fan. It's somewhat pointless to knock his athleticism. Whether it's from his athleticicsm, length, craftineness, or whatever - he gets higher and gets to spots quicker than other players. He does what other players can't. And he's obviously gotten much stronger and better than last year with a frame that projects a growing boy - as opposed to a guy like Muhammad - who likely was fully grown a year or so ago.
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