Around the nba part 6

Post #321 » by **Thugger HBC** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:53 pm

frogfood wrote:Did Bird play D?

He was a good team defender, but man to man...he was Barkley bad.

frogfood · Post #322 » by **frogfood** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:02 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:
frogfood wrote:Did Bird play D?

He was a good team defender, but man to man...he was Barkley bad.

I'm old enough to remember some Bird but man. I knew about the points but he sure did stuff the boxscore. Those rebound and assist #s: http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... dla01.html

Post #323 » by **Thugger HBC** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:12 pm

frogfood wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:
frogfood wrote:Did Bird play D?

He was a good team defender, but man to man...he was Barkley bad.

I'm old enough to remember some Bird but man. I knew about the points but he sure did stuff the boxscore. Those rebound and assist #s: http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... dla01.html

Oh he definitely contributed alot to the team, he just wasnt a good man defender.

It really wasn't because of smarts, he had alot of that, and it wasn't effort, as he gave that and then some, he just didn't have the physical tools to be a good man defender.

Maxwell and Mchale had his back, so his defense was focus on the passing lanes and helping out which he was very good at, enough for a defensive team award or two.

he was very good at reading what the opposing team was trying to do, and broke it up alot.

frogfood · Post #324 » by **frogfood** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:20 pm

Thanks Thugger. In a way, I was trying to passively discredit Bird's legacy a little with my snarky rhetorical "Did Bird play D?" But I decided to look him up and was blown away by those #s and started to remember his games. Guy is a true legend. I wish I was a little bit older to enjoy his play.

Post #325 » by **GONYK** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:23 pm

frogfood wrote:Thanks Thugger. In a way, I was trying to passively discredit Bird's legacy a little with my snarky rhetorical "Did Bird play D?" But I decided to look him up and was blown away by those #s and started to remember his games. Guy is a true legend. I wish I was a little bit older to enjoy his play.

To me, Bird was the original Bron.

Of course, LBJ takes it to another level with the speed, strength, and athleticism. But purely from the standpoint of the multifacted way they could dominate the game from the Forward position, the similarity is there.

It's even more impressive when you consider how skilled Bird had to be to do all that without Bron's physical gifts.

Post #326 » by **j4remi** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:26 pm

frogfood wrote:Thanks Thugger. In a way, I was trying to passively discredit Bird's legacy a little with my snarky rhetorical "Did Bird play D?" But I decided to look him up and was blown away by those #s and started to remember his games. Guy is a true legend. I wish I was a little bit older to enjoy his play.

The stories I've heard about Bird trump pretty much any other NBA player. I remember there was one about Bird betting a teammate he could drop 30 points lefty and told the medical staff his right hand was bothering him...so dude went and put up a 40 spot using predominantly his left hand. I think against Portland.

Rasho Brezec · Post #327 » by **Rasho Brezec** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:42 pm

j4remi wrote:Hakeem ate everyone alive though...Ewing, Robinson, Shaq...it didn't matter that they were legends. Wasn't it the same year that Robinson won the MVP where Hakeem caught him in the playoffs and decimated dude?

We went from this:

To this:

Rasho Brezec · Post #328 » by **Rasho Brezec** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:46 pm

knicks94 wrote:Lebron James is becoming the greatest player in the last 50 years. How can anyone not root for this guy?

How can anyone with a shred of human decency root for him? He represents treachery, lust for fame, media whoring, overrated obsession with individual stats and accomplishments, etc. He's a despicable player and everytime someone mentions his name along legends like Bird, Magic, Jordan is an insult to the all-time greats.

Post #329 » by **j4remi** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:47 pm

Rasho Brezec wrote:
j4remi wrote:Hakeem ate everyone alive though...Ewing, Robinson, Shaq...it didn't matter that they were legends. Wasn't it the same year that Robinson won the MVP where Hakeem caught him in the playoffs and decimated dude?

We went from this:

To this:

Yur boy Amare is gonna be doing that next season once his knee's better 8-)

disclaimer: this comment brought to you by green font.

frizzledizzle · Post #330 » by **frizzledizzle** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:48 pm

My morning just got so much better.

I literally laughed out loud when someone said Lebron is the best player in the last 50 years and after going back a couple page, I almost pissed my pants. Someone said the heat are the greatest team ever.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahaha

Bulls were 72-10 against better teams and somehow the Heat are better than the Bulls?.

As someone else said, Miami couldn't stop the Lakers either. I would put money on the Lakers sweeping Miami before I'd put money on Miami winning more than more than 2 games in a 7 game series. I wouldn't be surprised if the Lakers swept them at all. Who on Miami could stop Shaq? No one, that's who. Lebron would get less points driving to the paint too. People must have forgotten when groups of bigs such as like Divac, Webber and Pollard would all finish the game with 5-6 fouls in the playoffs against the Lakers. All 3 were literally on the bench half the game and fouling out. All Shaq would have to do is back whatever defender down that Miami has on him, which he'd do easily, and dunk. If they bring another defender to double him, kick it out to Kobe, Robert Horry, Derek Fisher, Rick Fox etc. Shaq could probably average 40-20 in a series against the Heat. That doesn't even include Kobe who in his prime was better than Wade and close to Lebron. Lakers would decimate Miami. It also helps that the Heat today are favored on both ends of the floor. Go check out the playoffs last year when Lebron would have just 1 or 2 fouls a game while fouling more than that and everyone who breathed on him was fouling out. They wouldn't get those calls against L.A/Shaq/Kobe.

Lord Commander · Post #331 » by **Lord Commander** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:06 pm

Just straight filthy and unnecessary...

frogfood · Post #332 » by **frogfood** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:18 pm

Rasho Brezec wrote:
knicks94 wrote:Lebron James is becoming the greatest player in the last 50 years. How can anyone not root for this guy?

How can anyone with a shred of human decency root for him? He represents treachery, lust for fame, media whoring, overrated obsession with individual stats and accomplishments, etc. He's a despicable player and everytime someone mentions his name along legends like Bird, Magic, Jordan is an insult to the all-time greats.

Bird had a child out of wedlock and refuses to even acknowledge her existence. But OK, you were upset he spurned us for Miami during the Decision.

Rasho Brezec · Post #333 » by **Rasho Brezec** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:22 pm

I was the only one who didn't want Lebron or for us to participate in his nuthugging.

Woodsanity · Post #334 » by **Woodsanity** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:24 pm

Rasho Brezec wrote:
knicks94 wrote:Lebron James is becoming the greatest player in the last 50 years. How can anyone not root for this guy?

How can anyone with a shred of human decency root for him? He represents treachery, lust for fame, media whoring, overrated obsession with individual stats and accomplishments, etc. He's a despicable player and everytime someone mentions his name along legends like Bird, Magic, Jordan is an insult to the all-time greats.

Human decency? Your using the word human decency when describing Jordan, Bird, and Magic? These guys were much bigger scum bags than Lebron and all of them did the same thing. :lol:

Except for the treachery part because Bird and Magic began their careers with historically stacked teams and Jordan eventually got Pippen, Rodman, etc. None of these guys would win anything if their second best player was Mo Williams.

Post #335 » by **j4remi** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:27 pm

frogfood wrote:
Bird had a child out of wedlock and refuses to even acknowledge her existence. But OK, you were upset he spurned us for Miami during the Decision.

I think the character of a lot of great athletes can be questioned. I give them appreciation for their achievements on the court as best I can, but I admit that when they behave in ways I dislike...it can creep into my judgement of their game. My big issues with Lebron are more about the fact that I think his on court achievements have been overrated due to the culture we live in, rule changes and the need for a sensational story...

For example: The stretch Lebron put together that people called the best stretch of basketball ever...completely ignorant of the O's triple double SEASON or Wilt's 50 and 20 season. I actually like to compare Lebron to Wilt over other players in that he is so physically superior to his competition that it's hard to know where his skill set begins and where it's just athleticism. Not trying to take away from either, they're both all time greats...but I don't have the reverence for Lebron's great moments that I do for the Magic and Bird ones because I don't see the same level of skill (could just be bias tbh...I don't hide that).

Post #336 » by **GONYK** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:28 pm

j4remi wrote:
frogfood wrote:
Bird had a child out of wedlock and refuses to even acknowledge her existence. But OK, you were upset he spurned us for Miami during the Decision.

I think the character of a lot of great athletes can be questioned. I give them appreciation for their achievements on the court as best I can, but I admit that when they behave in ways I dislike...it can creep into my judgement of their game. My big issues with Lebron are more about the fact that I think his on court achievements have been overrated due to the culture we live in, rule changes and the need for a sensational story...

For example: The stretch Lebron put together that people called the best stretch of basketball ever...completely ignorant of the O's triple double SEASON or Wilt's 50 and 20 season. I actually like to compare Lebron to Wilt over other players in that he is so physically superior to his competition that it's hard to know where his skill set begins and where it's just athleticism. Not trying to take away from either, they're both all time greats...but I don't have the reverence for Lebron's great moments that I do for the Magic and Bird ones because I don't see the same level of skill (could just be bias tbh...I don't hide that).

Bingo

Woodsanity · Post #337 » by **Woodsanity** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:30 pm

j4remi wrote:
frogfood wrote:
Bird had a child out of wedlock and refuses to even acknowledge her existence. But OK, you were upset he spurned us for Miami during the Decision.

I think the character of a lot of great athletes can be questioned. I give them appreciation for their achievements on the court as best I can, but I admit that when they behave in ways I dislike...it can creep into my judgement of their game. My big issues with Lebron are more about the fact that I think his on court achievements have been overrated due to the culture we live in, rule changes and the need for a sensational story...

For example: The stretch Lebron put together that people called the best stretch of basketball ever...completely ignorant of the O's triple double SEASON or Wilt's 50 and 20 season. I actually like to compare Lebron to Wilt over other players in that he is so physically superior to his competition that it's hard to know where his skill set begins and where it's just athleticism. Not trying to take away from either, they're both all time greats...but I don't have the reverence for Lebron's great moments that I do for the Magic and Bird ones because I don't see the same level of skill (could just be bias tbh...I don't hide that).

Except O's triple double season was a product of an infinitely faster pace. In today's game he could never hope to average a triple double(if you adjust for pace in today's game his stats wouldn't be close). This is why looking at raw stats is a terrible because you don't take into account pace or era. Wilt's 50/25 season was obviously one of the greatest of all time but again the pace was ridiculously fast back then and the average FG% was sub 40% so there were a lot more rebounds to be had. Not to mention the average athleticism back then was pretty poor. Keep in mind I said average there were athletic freaks back then.

Such an era would actually allow Lebron to feast. Can you imagine him in an era where people just constantly running? Basically no half court game.... Easy transition buckets every game.

Post #338 » by **j4remi** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:45 pm

Woodsanity wrote:
Except O's triple double season was a product of an infinitely faster pace. In today's game he could never hope to average a triple double(if you adjust for pace in today's game his stats wouldn't be close). This is why looking at raw stats is a terrible because you don't take into account pace or era. Wilt's 50/25 season was obviously one of the greatest of all time but again the pace was ridiculously fast back then and the average FG% was sub 40% so there were a lot more rebounds to be had. Not to mention the average athleticism back then was pretty poor. Keep in mind I said average there were athletic freaks back then.

I realize there are variables like that, but the point stands that people talked about the "historic dominance" of Lebron's play over a short span relatively speaking (12 games?)...and not once was there mention of just how dominant players have been in the past, because no matter how you look at it...12 games of 30 points at crazy efficiency isn't as impressive as a full season of 50 points a game and 20+ rebounds or triple double all year round. Matter of fact, I feel that Shaq circa 99 to the Heat (when he clearly fell off) was arguably more dominant...Actually, that's not all that hard an argument to make imo.

ibraheim718 · Post #339 » by **ibraheim718** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:10 pm

knicks94 wrote:Lebron James is becoming the greatest player in the last 50 years. How can anyone not root for this guy?

You know what.. I'm an old school type of guy.. but I like to project into the future. If he can win 3 more championships and get to 4... a few more MVP's... a couple of DPOY's he's going to be in 1b status... I'm starting to leave a crack in the door open for this conversation to be seriously talked about. I like good basketball... I don't care who's playing it.. and the thing about Lebron this year more than any other year is what he's doing... to me looks like a guy who isn't even trying... When Mike was balling you saw it... effort was being exerted... this guy puts the car in cruise control and is straight coasting down a highway in a way I've never seen a player do live and in color.

Post #340 » by **GONYK** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:12 pm

ibraheim718 wrote:
knicks94 wrote:Lebron James is becoming the greatest player in the last 50 years. How can anyone not root for this guy?

You know what.. I'm an old school type of guy.. but I like to project into the future. If he can win 3 more championships and get to 4... a few more MVP's... a couple of DPOY's he's going to be in 1b status... I'm starting to leave a crack a door for this conversation to be seriously talked about. I like good basketball... I don't care who's playing it.. and the thing about Lebron this year more than any other year is what he's doing... to me looks like a guy who isn't even trying... When Mike was balling you saw it... effort was being exerted... this guy puts the car in cruise control and is straight coasting down a highway in a way I've never seen a player do live and in color.

People were allowed to put a hand on Mike though