Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0

[nate33]

As I illustrated above, I think the scenario where Wall takes the QO is so remote that it's not worthy of consideration. It won't happen. Frankly, the worst case scenario is much more likely to be the Kevin Love scenario. It goes like this:

Wall is peeved that we didn't extend a max offer a year early. So instead of agreeing directly to an extension in 2014, he instead gets another under-the-cap team to offer a 4-year max deal with a player option after Year 3. He accepts that offer and Washington matches. Under that scenario, the Wizards would save a little bit of money (because the contract matched would only have 4.5% raises instead of the 7.5% raises that Washington could offer), but Wall would have the ability to leave in three years. He would be an unrestricted free agent as soon as the Summer 2017.

[nate33]

Didn't remember that Dwight was coming off his second contract. Totally different situation. My bad.

However, it's simply not true that there's no "downside" to not offering Wall max money (or close to max) this summer. (Not saying that the Zards should.) Wall wouldn't be the first player to take less money to go to a situation and place that he preferred....for whatever reason. And, if it's someplace like NY or LA (to play with Dwight ), Wall could make up in endorsements that $10 mil or so he lost by not signing with the Zards.

Remember, this hypothetical other team would have to have max cap room. It's extremely rare for teams with max cap room to be good situations as far as wins/losses go.

[jivelikenice]

What if he truely breaks out next yr and the team around him is only good enough to get an 8th seed. At that point the relationship is already strained based on not giving him a deal and he says either trade me or he walks in '15 becauase he's lost faith in the organziation. '15 btw is when the Knicks 3 big contracts come off the books. Maybe he thinks they trade him or he plays out the qualifying and makes up his $ in a bigger market. - I'm not saying this is likely at all, but there is downside so why risk it over what amounts to very little in the long-term?

[nate33]

Last time we squabbled over a couple of million with a young player, we ended up having to pay Juwan Howard $100 MM. (not really applicable at all based on the changes in the CBA, but why even create a potentially negative atmosphere over an amount that long-term won't really impact the course of the franchise?)

Because by making Wall earn that max extension, he'll probably become a better player. It also establishes a team mentality that you don't get something for nothing. Even the superstar and "leader" of the team has to earn his pay.

I just don't see declining an extension right now as such an insult. There's nothing wrong with going to Wall and saying:

"Mr. Wall, objectively speaking, you are not yet a superstar. You are not on the same tier as Chris Paul and Derrick Rose. You haven't made a single All Star game yet. I think it's fair to say that you currently are on the same tier as guys like Stephen Curry, Rajon Rondo and Jrue Holiday. Those guys are being paid $11-12M a year. If you want an extension right now, we feel that's your value. Now, we also have a great deal of confidence in your abilities. If you are willing to put in the work, you could be a first tier superstar in this league as soon as next season. If you continue to improve and show that you are such a player by next year, we would be thrilled to extend a full max contract offer. So it's your choice, take the "safe route" and lock yourself into a Stephen Curry deal right now. Or gamble on yourself and your abilities and try and earn a max contract next year. Either way, we support your decision."

[DCZards]

Because by making Wall earn that max extension, he'll probably become a better player. It also establishes a team mentality that you don't get something for nothing. Even the superstar and "leader" of the team has to earn his pay.

Not offering your leader and star a max contract could have the opposite effect on his teammates. The mentality could be that the Zards lack faith in what is probably their most important player. A player who showed just how valuable he is by how well the team played when he returned from being injured.

I'm torn on whether it makes sense to offer John a max contract. I have a tendency to agree that you offer him Curry money and see what happens.

[tontoz]

Wall has not produced like a star.

He has played like a star at times and at times he has been awful. Same was true for his first two seasons. His overall production does not put him in the star class.

Other than Ben Gordon I am struggling to think of ANY high profile RFAs that took the QO so i don't see why it would be a legit possiblilty with Wall . Can anyone think of another guy who ended up signing for $10+ million that took the QO just to get away from his team?

[TheKingOfVa360]

Because by making Wall earn that max extension, he'll probably become a better player. It also establishes a team mentality that you don't get something for nothing. Even the superstar and "leader" of the team has to earn his pay.

Not offering your leader and star a max contract could have the opposite effect on his teammates. The mentality could be that the Zards lack faith in what is probably their most important player. A player who showed just how valuable he is by how well the team played when he returned from being injured.

I'm torn on whether it makes sense to offer John a max contract. I have a tendency to agree that you offer him Curry money and see what happens.

Exactly, while it would be good for us to offer Wall a Steph Curry contract, you have to think about how it will affect him mentally and his teammates. This isn't NBA 2k, players do have feelings, he will take that as a slap in his face as a former number 1 overall pick. In a perfect world we should make him earn the max so i understand both sides of the fence.

[nate33]

Because by making Wall earn that max extension, he'll probably become a better player. It also establishes a team mentality that you don't get something for nothing. Even the superstar and "leader" of the team has to earn his pay.

Not offering your leader and star a max contract could have the opposite effect on his teammates. The mentality could be that the Zards lack faith in what is probably their most important player. A player who showed just how valuable he is by how well the team played when he returned from being injured.

I'm torn on whether it makes sense to offer John a max contract. I have a tendency to agree that you offer him Curry money and see what happens.

Exactly, while it would be good for us to offer Wall a Steph Curry contract, you have to think about how it will affect him mentally and his teammates. This isn't NBA 2k, players do have feelings, he will take that as a slap in his face as a former number 1 overall pick. In a perfect world we should make him earn the max so i understand both sides of the fence.

If John feels like it's a slap in the face that he doesn't get offered a max contract a year ahead of schedule when he posts a PER of just 19 and hasn't even sniffed one all star game, then he isn't tough-minded enough to deserve a max contract.

This is business. Wall has to earn his money. He's a very good player but he's not a great player, not yet. If he plays well enough, then he absolutely deserves a max contract and it would indeed be a slap in the face if the Wizards failed to offer him one. He hasn't played well enough yet.

Too many of you people would let the inmates run the asylum. Wall is a player, an employee. Employees have to earn their money. You pay them what they are worth. Wall isn't worth more than Stephen Curry or Rajon Rondo. End of story. Management doesn't need to walk on eggshells around him, not when they've negotiated a very strong position in the CBA when it comes to restricted free agents.

Just be up front and honest: "Wall, you are not a max player but you are headed in the right direction. If you want a contract now, it will be a contract based on what you are worth now, and that's $12M a year. If you want to wait a year because you think you will improve between now and then, then good for you. We will happily encourage you to be the best player you can be; and we will devote all of our resources to assist you to become that player. And when you do become that player, we will absolutely pay you a max contract."

This is business. This is what a good manager does.

[hands11]

Great conversation for what can happen down the road.

What we are missing is what he does the rest of the season.

If he keeps up what he has been doing the last 4 games against the good teams and on the road, I think that will have a good bit of influence on that they decide.

http://www.monumentalnetwork.com/videos ... ec17ed0000

One thing I really like that I have seen from Wall the last week or so is that he has been shouldering a lot more of the blame for loses in post game interviews. Nice progress as a team leader. Shoulder the blame and share the praise.

http://www.monumentalnetwork.com/videos ... ec17ed0000

For me, I see Webster's influence coming in here. Webster has been a great example of leadership.

[B-easy]

Didn't get to see the game but looks like wall had a another great game.I watched the highlights and that jumper looks really really good. Its been a while since wall had a bad game, I am now starting to get excited.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9lx_7t-rP8[/youtube]

[GhostsOfGil]

John Wall's March stats (11 games)

20.0 PPG
.522 FG%
.545 3FG% (6-11)
.852 FT%
4.9 FTA
4.3 RPG
7.7 APG
0.8 BPG
2.0 SPG
3.6 TO

[tontoz]

So far this month Wall is shooting 46% on shots outside 10 feet (89 attempts).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... rder_by=fg

[Brenice]

John Wall is showing how he can play when his teammates are also competitive, unlike those previous.

[dobrojim]

Mike Wise had a column today in the WaPost talking about Wall and a max deal.
He seems to think that we should go ahead and max him sooner rather than later.
I tend to agree with Nate's approach with the proviso that you need to be very careful
in these negotiations. Striking a balance between motivating him maximally and pissing him
off could be a fine edge.

[hands11]

Wall has to get back to focusing on getting the TOs down.

Last two games he had 6 and 5 after he had 3, 3, and 2 in the 3 previous games.

Seems when he TOs more the whole team TOs more.

But it is nice to see his FG% up to .446 for the year and his TS% is up to .520%

He took a couple of more advanced shoots last night. One he was fading baseline from distance and another drifting toward the basket in traffic where he shot it after hanging for a while.

Personally, I would rather he not start shooting those just yet until he really established the straight jumper over a longer period of time.

Its going to be amazing if he can break .450% FG% - That would be really nice progress over last year.

But if he wants to get into the top group of scorers and he isn't going to shoot the 3, he needs to get that up to the .500% level. Parker is at .533%

As for now Jack, Teague, George Hill, and Ridnour are all shooting in the .450% range but they also shoot from 3 balls.

Its progress for Wall, but lots of room to get better still. Basically his he has to keep up his March numbers of 522 if he isn't going to hit the 3 ball.

[queridiculo]

Whether Wall is worth a max contract is a worthy debate, but ultimately the reality is that the market will set his value and if Washington doesn't end up paying him, another team certainly will.

I've had my doubts during his recent poor stint, but at the end of the day I'll always think to how much of a force he was in his rookie season prior to his ankle injury, and how much in love I was with not only his potential, but his intangibles leading up to and shortly after he was drafted.

Wall has the desire to be great, and I don't think that sort of drive should be underestimated. His teammates love him and while he's not anywhere close to reaching his potential, his recent play has me hopeful that he'll one day reach his ceiling.

I'm reminded of the debates that came up regarding Westbrook during the same stage of his career. Just like Wall he had plenty of holes in his game but the Thunder showed faith and I doubt they regret their decision in retrospect.

I think it's time for a Wizards show off faith with a max extension and to let the chips fall were they may.

[Nivek]

If Mike Wise thinks the Wizards should max Wall out soon, then the right move is to wait. Not sure of the last time (if there ever was one) I read Wise's column and thought he was...umm...wise.

I'm sorry.

[Dark Faze]

Tony Parker is a positive example in terms of player progression. He's a player that got a lot of minutes from jump, started poorer than Wall with slightly better shooting numbers as the years progressed, and didn't even hit 17 PPG until his 5th season, and started routinely going at around 18 PPG his 5th year and on.

Obviously the differences are that Tony managed to keep his percentage at a decent rate fairly quickly, but its a good example of speedy point with a poor jumpshot being surrounded by elite coaching and not being able to really flip the switch until his second contract in the league.

[Nivek]

Here's a look at Wall vs. Tony Parker season-by-season using my stat (PPA) where average = 100:

Code: Select all

YEAR    Wall    Parker
1       93      80
2       110     115
3       119     112
4               136
5               158
6               173
7               145
8               170
9               100
10              156
11              166
12              203


Don't have time to go more in depth, but this is an interesting look. Parker was a year younger than Wall when he hit the NBA.

[payitforward]

In none of his first 3 years was Tony Parker as productive as John Wall has been his first 3 years. As Kev points out he was a year younger coming in, so it's worth noting that in his 4th year he was slightly more productive than John has been overall this his 3d year (but Wall is clearly trending up thru the season, so...).

That said, unlike most NBA players Parker is having the best season of his career at 30 (i.e. this year). And, though he began to peak @24, like most guys, he's extended his productivity over quite a long stretch. Maybe this is a differentiator of point guards w/ respect to other positions? Dunno.