FFL - 2012-13 - Voting on Rule Change - draft order posted

[bww78]

I'm not sure you can say that it clearly does not affect the league.

[Woody Allen]

I want it to be on the record that
i) I have streamed in the past
ii) I will stream again in the future
iii) I think streaming does help
iv) and I think there's nothing wrong with it
v) Some people who can't stop whining about the issue every other year (ie Floppy) do so because they are too lazy to employ it as a strategy themselves. And they will not stop unless we completely eliminate add-drops.

[floppymoose]

Almost. I don't really want to eliminate add drops. And I don't even want to change the rules if a majority aren't on board. I don't think any of us should try to hold the league hostage to his own preferences. 45 moves is still too much in my view, but we did vote on it and that's what won. I'm betting bww isn't going to do anything to the drop add rules that isn't voted on.

What I don't get is why you got so hostile the moment I said some were streaming, and argued for a rule change. If most of the managers want to reduce the impact of streaming, did you really want to thwart their wishes? I expected you to argue your side of things and try to convince people we should have lots of moves, but instead you just went fully hostile.

As for harping on it, I didn't bring it up this season. You did when you pointed out that I was streaming in the final week. If you didn't want to talk about it you shouldn't have done that.

[floppymoose]

Also… nice job Cy!

[jazzfan1971]

As for harping on it, I didn't bring it up this season. You did when you pointed out that I was streaming in the final week. If you didn't want to talk about it you shouldn't have done that.

I brought it up, and I'll bring it up every year. I think it's cheating, not a strategy. I don't think I'll ever change on that opinion.

[floppymoose]

Well, I don't have a problem with it as a strategy. I don't think it's cheating. I just think it's mind-numbingly boring, and so if managers want to play with fewer moves then I'm all for that.

[writersblock]

I will agree that streaming is really lame, and takes away from the strategy of the league. For the record, I hate it...and it probably is one reason why I lost to INSFO, and eventually, lost the league championship this year (I would have beat Cy). But I will never argue for less moves or limiting moves because doing so is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. The baby being the strategy of picking the right people at the right time, and the bathwater, streaming.

Here's how I see it, people hate streaming because it's not strategic, you're just putting in players who fill in numbers, and I totally agree. But here's the problem, strategy in this league is based almost entirely on picking the right players. When less and less people are willing to trade, picking the right players is even more critical. As I see it, doing the right adds during the season is just as important as getting your picks right in the draft. Unexpected things happen during the season, and players step up that no one counts on. Picking up players like that requires watching games, following players, and following the NBA in general, which I think is the best part and the point of playing fantasy basketball. So any rules limiting add-drops take away from the fun of the league. The reason I use so many adds every year is because I'm very fickle on who I think will make it big, and I think I've done a pretty good job picking the right guys, but unfortunately, some times it takes me a number of add-drops to get to the right guy.

To limit streaming, this is what I think we should do. I suggested this last year, and I think it makes sense.
1. Limit add-drops to a weekly, rather than a season total. The reason for this is, technically, you can have no add-drops most of the year, then stream your way into the playoffs. With weekly limits puts a cap at how much you can actually stream during the year. To be honest, I don't think streaming during the year is actually the real problem here, but weekly limits are the way to go, if you want to limit it. To put a number on it, I'd go with 3-4. 4 Works fine for the Battle of The sports forum league and they have less teams, but 3 is probably fine here.

2. Limit add-drops to 2 during the fantasy playoffs. I think the danger of streaming is worse in the playoffs than the regular season. I think 2 is probably enough, though I'd argue for 3.


So, in sum, to answer Floppy's question from a few posts ago, yes, of course add-drops help me. It helps everyone to be able to pick up someone who could break out or start playing well. That's the point of fantasy basketball. Streaming is just the extreme of that. The more we limit it add-drops to limit streaming, the more we hurt the strategy of picking up the right guy during the season. If you think that add-drops are "boring" then you might be better suited in a no-add league.

[jazzfan1971]

Well, I am actually thinking I'm finding middle ground with WB on this. 3per week regular season and 2per week playoffs seems reasonable to me. If we can vote on that, I'd be for it.

[insfo]

I will agree that streaming is really lame, and takes away from the strategy of the league. For the record, I hate it...and it probably is one reason why I lost to INSFO, and eventually, lost the league championship this year (I would have beat Cy). But I will never argue for less moves or limiting moves because doing so is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. The baby being the strategy of picking the right people at the right time, and the bathwater, streaming.

WTF are you talking about. Did you just conveniently forget that you made your *league allowed* 6 moves as well??? wow .. I let you talk the first couple of time since I'm sure you were disappointed, so let you vent .. but come on now, this is taking it too far! As far as you winning, yeah .. I'm sure you would have made your 6 moves on Monday and been complaining about everyone else "streaming" by Friday

Anyway, congrats Cy .. I thought my previous week's pick up of Irving would make a difference, but nope .. couldn't overcome your team. Nice job!

I'm happy about my season .. not bad for a rookie I remember Craig inviting me to this league nearly 6 years back (August 2007) and I was to replace someone from the previous year, but right before I was to make my first pick, the dude showed up saying he was on his honeymoon!! So, got bumped out of the league but Craig promised me that I would be first in line as a replacement in subsequent years .. but as a make-up for this, he got me into FFDL that year. Anyways, sorry about the trip down memory lane .. and I was hoping to post this as the winner .. but hey, considering the quality of the competition, runner-up ain't too bad

[hamncheese]

My opinion is streaming is not cheating, it is a strategy, and number of moves isn't the defining factor. A person can make a lot of add/drops and not be streaming, and you can stream with two moves, if you consider streaming as dropping a "better" player simply for the sake of gaining stats. I'd be consistent and just go with 3 moves per week, regular season + playoffs. 6 moves per week during the playoffs is too much.

This league already has one partial deterrent to streaming because it's a deep league. It's just hard to effectively stream in a deep league v. a shallow one, and talent evaluation.

Here's one other suggestion, is to also implement the waiver dollars with players on continuous waiver and limit pick ups to 2 or 3 times per week, which we had briefly discussed at the beginning of last season. I like it for a couple of reasons, (1) by limiting pick ups to 2 or 3 times a week, you basically limit "last minute" add and deters streaming, (2) you also level out the competition between people who can be online more frequently and those who cannot.

I used it in my auction league this year with a four moves per week limit, though with adds done every day, and had no complaints.

[Woody Allen]

Here's one other suggestion, is to also implement the waiver dollars with players on continuous waiver and limit pick ups to 2 or 3 times per week, which we had briefly discussed at the beginning of last season. I like it for a couple of reasons, (1) by limiting pick ups to 2 or 3 times a week, you basically limit "last minute" add and deters streaming, (2) you also level out the competition between people who can be online more frequently and those who cannot.

I used it in my auction league this year with a four moves per week limit, though with adds done every day, and had no complaints.

I don't like that because it hampers the value of following the news, developments, etc. The person first to find out that Kyrie Irving is not out for the season but will play in a few games should be rewarded. It is only punishing the people who spend a lot of their time and paying close attention to what is going on.

[hamncheese]

I don't like that because it hampers the value of following the news, developments, etc. The person first to find out that Kyrie Irving is not out for the season but will play in a few games should be rewarded. It is only punishing the people who spend a lot of their time and paying close attention to what is going on.

My disagreement is that I don't think being able to spend a lot of time and pay close attention is something to necessarily reward either, because there are limiting factor beyond interest or love of the game, that can reduce a person's ability to be timely - work/life schedules, computer restrictions, not having a smart phone, time zones, etc...

If things were level across the board, then I might agree with that, but things aren't. Sure it adds another element of strategy, such as saving waiver dollars, knowing how much to bid, ... but it also limits some luck. A person could just happen to be checking a twitter feed at the exact time an announcement is made and not necessarily be a vigilant news hound.

[Cyrus]

Thanks all ,glad I'm the first 2 time winner in this thing, especially playing against probably the toughest competition of all time, especially from most didn't even have me making the playoffs, to be honest I wasn't sure i was going to be a playoff team.

Like always with these things, have an injury free year or very few injuries is the key to success. Got lucky with guys who are known to be injury prone (Lowry/Curry ,who were relatively healthy all year around). I got my injuries during the middle of the year, while critical not season ending. OR had guy like wilson chandler miss the first half to produce in the back half the year, although i was tempted to drop him, glad I didn't.

And the other key to winning this thing, is your late round drafting:

From Round 6 my draft was:
J.R Smith (109)
Wilson Chandler (132)
Jeff Green (149)
Amir Johnson (172)
Caron Butler (189)
Ed Davis (212)
Vince Carter (229)
Thabo Sefolosha (252)
Jimmy Freddette (269)

I didn't have the best pick in each round, but I had contributions from each guy picked, and most of the guys finished better than where they were selected.

[floppymoose]

I don't like that because it hampers the value of following the news, developments, etc. The person first to find out that Kyrie Irving is not out for the season but will play in a few games should be rewarded. It is only punishing the people who spend a lot of their time and paying close attention to what is going on.

I agree with that. (ha! surprised you!)

If we really want to limit streaming, let's just attack the issue directly and keep the moves total low, rather than something different like having waivers only process occasionally.

I see people proposing 3 moves per week. I just want to be clear: that's an increase. If the regular season is 20 weeks, that's 60 moves. We have 45 moves this season. If that's what most want, then that's what most want, but I'm surprised to see jazzfan suggesting it given his stance on streaming.

[jazzfan1971]

I am much more concerned with playoff streaming. I am not much concerened with the regular season is why I would agree to that.

[hamncheese]

I see people proposing 3 moves per week. I just want to be clear: that's an increase. If the regular season is 20 weeks, that's 60 moves. We have 45 moves this season. If that's what most want, then that's what most want, but I'm surprised to see jazzfan suggesting it given his stance on streaming.

I am thinking that we can both. 45 moves per season, 3 moves per week. Having up to 3 moves per week is reasonable to me, in cases to compensate for injuries or finding a better scrub, but I wouldn't expect or want a manager to do it every week. Having just a season limit doesn't necessarily prevent a week of streaming from one manager.

[bww78]

Well, before you all run off too far, don't forget to check in around the end of June or beginning of July so we can start the prep work for next season. Thanks everyone for another good one! Congrats one last time to Cy, and thanks to Craig (Sly) once again for getting this league started back in 2004 (or was it 2003?).

[fraanciiscoo]

congrats cyrus

well played

[floppymoose]

Camby vs AR down to the wire:

AR 345
Camby 384

I think I have the advantage as Camby is listed as questionable, and Farried just sprained his ankle which might buy AR some minutes.

Of course, AR could use those minutes to shoot at 0% and commit 10 turnovers, so you never know.

[jazzfan1971]

Not looking good for me, I for sure figured Camby for more minutes this season. I guess he's done.