Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V

[hands11]

[huge snippage] But a left leaning, customized Supreme Court can make that happen.

I'm sure I know a large number of libs/progessives that would be pretty surprised
to learn that we have a left leaning SC.

Nice post back there SFAM on aspects of America which we often take for
granted. But I'll take issue with your approval of term limits. I think
gerrymandering is much more serious problem. Term limits are fundamentally
anti-democratic. We need reforms that would curtail the benefits of
incumbancy and create a more level playing field for challengers.

My biggest fear at the present for the way things are being run is what I see
as a diminishing true representational democracy. Regarding a large number
of issues that are important to me, I feel that I stand with significant majorities
but a gerrymandered HouseofReps (dems got more votes) and a fundamentally
undemocratic Senate (41 senators from States representing less the 20% of the
total population can block whatever legislation they happen not to like) stands
in the way. The People's will is not being done.

Thanks for the shoutout Pine.

These are the biggest issues. When the two senators per state was enacted, the delta in populations wasn't nearly as large as it is now.

Minority population states have way to much power right now.

As for the SC. Its left leaning ? Really ? For what, one decision ?

The last 35 years has been dominated by conservatives. And while their power is diminishing, they have rigged the system in such as way its like trying to dig out a tick to get them out of office.

Its going to take a wave election to get things back in balance so that what happens in Congress actually represents the people will. All that has been gained right now is removing them from a position to do more major F ups. That is vastly different then having the power to actually implement progressive ideas that would create real progress.

But while Congress is stuck on the big budget issues, the states are passing the social legislation. Pop is getting legalized and abortions are getting made illegal. So we will see how the people react in national elections when they become aware of what is being gained and lost.

[sfam]

But while Congress is stuck on the big budget issues, the states are passing the social legislation. Pop is getting legalized and abortions are getting made illegal. So we will see how the people react in national elections when they become aware of what is being gained and lost.

I'be been drinkin pop illegally for years!

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[Zonkerbl]

Thanks, Pine. This thread inspires me. I use it as a kind of crucible to develop ideas that I end up using later in my job. I can safely say that much of the success that I've had at work is a direct result of the discussion inspired by this thread.

Next week this thread will go subscription only for $1000 a month. Don't worry, you can write it off.

So what do you do again ?

Economist. Less than a year ago I switched from U.S. reg stuff (thus needing to read a lot of legal decisions where someone has sued a regulator and I have to understand what the issues were and translate it in my head from legalese to economicese, so I'm practically a lawyer now) to work on U.S. foreign aid assistance programs with the Millennium Challenge Corporation (created as by the Republicans to be quasi independent from the State Department and implement the bleeding edge of Development Aid methods, thus the primary role of economists there). Important when we're telling other countries to be transparent and accountable and to ensure due process to know what that means and express the ideas clearly, so I come here and talk about how our court system works and what's going on in the economy. It's extremely good practice to come here and practice expressing my thoughts in an understandable way. So you guys get free Ph.D. economist thinking and I get to impress people with my awesome communication skills at work. Also good practice to not blow up during an argument -- easier if you've seen the argument before and are expecting it.

[sfam]

Thanks, Pine. This thread inspires me. I use it as a kind of crucible to develop ideas that I end up using later in my job. I can safely say that much of the success that I've had at work is a direct result of the discussion inspired by this thread.

Next week this thread will go subscription only for $1000 a month. Don't worry, you can write it off.

So what do you do again ?

Economist. Less than a year ago I switched from U.S. reg stuff (thus needing to read a lot of legal decisions where someone has sued a regulator and I have to understand what the issues were and translate it in my head from legalese to economicese, so I'm practically a lawyer now) to work on U.S. foreign aid assistance programs with the Millennium Challenge Corporation (created as by the Republicans to be quasi independent from the State Department and implement the bleeding edge of Development Aid methods, thus the primary role of economists there). Important when we're telling other countries to be transparent and accountable and to ensure due process to know what that means and express the ideas clearly, so I come here and talk about how our court system works and what's going on in the economy. It's extremely good practice to come here and practice expressing my thoughts in an understandable way. So you guys get free Ph.D. economist thinking and I get to impress people with my awesome communication skills at work. Also good practice to not blow up during an argument -- easier if you've seen the argument before and are expecting it.

I know some folks doing open data stuff at the MCC. They seem like good people.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[popper]

I've recently read a number of articles on youth unemployment, especially in the black community. I think the head of BET commented on it recently as well. So here is a first pass at some possible solutions.

1. Dispense with separating youth by race and develop programs that address at-risk youth generally (within reason).

2. Discipline both in school and at home are essential ingredients in equipping youth for hard work and employment. I've observed that there is a marked lack of discipline in many youth today and because of that, their grades are bad and they don't seem sufficiently motivated to excel.

What to do? First, prepare for the fact that many youth today are raised by one parent who, in many instances, don't have the skills, experience or time to instill sufficient discipline. One possible solution here is to send these kids to some sort of mild six week boot camp where responsible, educated adult volunteers can work with them. No TV, no iphones, just study, exercise and healthy living. Emphasize stories of successful individuals that came from poverty, and through sheer force of will and discipline, rose to greatness. People like Dr. Ben Carson come to mind. To pay for the aforementioned program one solution would be to cut Big Bird, NPR, green energy grants to companies that go bankrupt, the Dept. of Education, etc. Plenty of money is available for re-programming if we prioritize our youth over other less essential spending.

3. I would modify minimum wage laws and guarantee the recent boot camp graduates a job. Perhaps they work for 6 mo. at $5 per hour to develop necessary job skills. After that, they should be able to make minimum wage and much more over time. I would also equip each one with an ipad-type device and offer a cut-rate online college degree program. The kids would pay some percentage of their earnings (say 20%) and as long as they make progress on their degree their education would continue to be subsidized by 80%.

4. Last, I would establish free vocational schools and offer courses for those trades that are, or are expected to be, in demand. If additional funding is necessary, I would sell millions of acres of idle, federally owned land, and other federal assets to fund any shortfall.

What do you think?

[sfam]

I've recently read a number of articles on youth unemployment, especially in the black community. I think the head of BET commented on it recently as well. So here is a first pass at some possible solutions.

1. Dispense with separating youth by race and develop programs that address at-risk youth generally (within reason).

2. Discipline both in school and at home are essential ingredients in equipping youth for hard work and employment. I've observed that there is a marked lack of discipline in many youth today and because of that, their grades are bad and they don't seem sufficiently motivated to excel.

What to do? First, prepare for the fact that many youth today are raised by one parent who, in many instances, don't have the skills, experience or time to instill sufficient discipline. One possible solution here is to send these kids to some sort of mild six week boot camp where responsible, educated adult volunteers can work with them. No TV, no iphones, just study, exercise and healthy living. Emphasize stories of successful individuals that came from poverty, and through sheer force of will and discipline, rose to greatness. People like Dr. Ben Carson come to mind. To pay for the aforementioned program one solution would be to cut Big Bird, NPR, green energy grants to companies that go bankrupt, the Dept. of Education, etc. Plenty of money is available for re-programming if we prioritize our youth over other less essential spending.

3. I would modify minimum wage laws and guarantee the recent boot camp graduates a job. Perhaps they work for 6 mo. at $5 per hour to develop necessary job skills. After that, they should be able to make minimum wage and much more over time. I would also equip each one with an ipad-type device and offer a cut-rate online college degree program. The kids would pay some percentage of their earnings (say 20%) and as long as they make progress on their degree their education would continue to be subsidized by 80%.

4. Last, I would establish free vocational schools and offer courses for those trades that are, or are expected to be, in demand. If additional funding is necessary, I would sell millions of acres of idle, federally owned land, and other federal assets to fund any shortfall.

What do you think?

Some interesting ideas there. Just one big picture idea on funding: instead of cutting big bird which helps this exact target audoence, why don't we just buy one less F22? This would give us 254 million to pay for all of this. Surely all of that is more important than one F22, which doesn't even work as intended.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[Zonkerbl]

What Obama Just Did

Stefan --

He actually did it.

President Obama just sent his budget to Congress -- including his dangerous cuts to Social Security.

He did so over the objections of more than two million members of his own party, members who fought long and hard to put him in office.

But this battle is far from over.

DFA is taking this fight to Congress, where we're going district by district to reject this reckless plan.

I'm asking you to stand up for Social Security by pitching in $4 or more today. Will you join us?

Thanks for all you do,

- Jim

Jim Dean, Chair
Democracy for America

Ok, this is what's wrong with America. YOU DON'T BOO YOUR OWN PLAYERS!

[popper]

What Obama Just Did

Stefan --

He actually did it.

President Obama just sent his budget to Congress -- including his dangerous cuts to Social Security.

He did so over the objections of more than two million members of his own party, members who fought long and hard to put him in office.

But this battle is far from over.

DFA is taking this fight to Congress, where we're going district by district to reject this reckless plan.

I'm asking you to stand up for Social Security by pitching in $4 or more today. Will you join us?

Thanks for all you do,

- Jim

Jim Dean, Chair
Democracy for America

Ok, this is what's wrong with America. YOU DON'T BOO YOUR OWN PLAYERS!

Republicans do it all the time. The right hand has no idea what the left hand is doing and, when known, will cancel out any value of the larger message in pursuit self-aggrandizement. Kind of funny in a sense and confirms that those with low intellect run the circus. At least D's generally receive and regurgitate the talking points in unison, mindless as the are.

[popper]

I've recently read a number of articles on youth unemployment, especially in the black community. I think the head of BET commented on it recently as well. So here is a first pass at some possible solutions.

1. Dispense with separating youth by race and develop programs that address at-risk youth generally (within reason).

2. Discipline both in school and at home are essential ingredients in equipping youth for hard work and employment. I've observed that there is a marked lack of discipline in many youth today and because of that, their grades are bad and they don't seem sufficiently motivated to excel.

What to do? First, prepare for the fact that many youth today are raised by one parent who, in many instances, don't have the skills, experience or time to instill sufficient discipline. One possible solution here is to send these kids to some sort of mild six week boot camp where responsible, educated adult volunteers can work with them. No TV, no iphones, just study, exercise and healthy living. Emphasize stories of successful individuals that came from poverty, and through sheer force of will and discipline, rose to greatness. People like Dr. Ben Carson come to mind. To pay for the aforementioned program one solution would be to cut Big Bird, NPR, green energy grants to companies that go bankrupt, the Dept. of Education, etc. Plenty of money is available for re-programming if we prioritize our youth over other less essential spending.

3. I would modify minimum wage laws and guarantee the recent boot camp graduates a job. Perhaps they work for 6 mo. at $5 per hour to develop necessary job skills. After that, they should be able to make minimum wage and much more over time. I would also equip each one with an ipad-type device and offer a cut-rate online college degree program. The kids would pay some percentage of their earnings (say 20%) and as long as they make progress on their degree their education would continue to be subsidized by 80%.

4. Last, I would establish free vocational schools and offer courses for those trades that are, or are expected to be, in demand. If additional funding is necessary, I would sell millions of acres of idle, federally owned land, and other federal assets to fund any shortfall.

What do you think?

Some interesting ideas there. Just one big picture idea on funding: instead of cutting big bird which helps this exact target audoence, why don't we just buy one less F22? This would give us 254 million to pay for all of this. Surely all of that is more important than one F22, which doesn't even work as intended.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Agree with cutting F22's. I hear the same as you, bad aircraft and bad investment.

[popper]

Popper, if you mean this bit of silliness:

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/d ... Page3.html

That's just failure to understand economics.

Our magic fairy dust comes from our reliability as a debtor. When we promise to pay something, we pay it. If we promise to pay something, and don't, then our credibility suffers. Full stop. No amount of hand waving or splitting hairs is going to change the fact that we promised to pay for something and then didn't.

Yes. I thought that article laid out both sides of the issue fairly. I believe that federal govt. creditors are primarily concerned with whether or not the govt. honors its debt. I don't think they give a rats ass whether or not we cut the Dept. of Commerce, Dept. of Energy, entitlements or overseas military bases. Why would they care? It doesn't effect them in the least.

If Enron owes me money, you bet your ass I care that Enron is insolvent. Even if I'm a secured creditor. I don't care if Enron is paying its debts to me -- I care that Enron is in financial trouble and is defaulting on some of its commitments. Or to be more similar to the debt ceiling situation, I care that Enron has suddenly decided not to pay its workers. I care if Enron's employees are rioting in the streets. I care if Enron is suddenly embroiled in a million different lawsuits with its various suppliers. I care that the board of directors of Enron is so incompetent, it can't decide whether or not to pay its bills, despite the fact that it has plenty of money. It matters. If Enron does not take its business commitments seriously and its leadership is in turmoil, and comes up to me and asks me for a loan, I'm going to charge them a higher interest rate.

You can't just wish away stupidity. Stupid is stupid. Defaulting on your commitments is stupid. It shows you have no idea what you are doing, you have no idea how credit markets work, and that you have no idea what the magnitude of the consequences of your incompetence is.

No federal govt. creditor gives a hoot about Enron. It doesn't concern them in the least. If they were to care about any private entity and the shenanigans of corrupt mgmt. they would probably be more concerned with leading Democrat John Corzine's MF Global or Bernie Madoff's Ponzi scheme.

Zonk - Why do you and Hands constantly associate corruption and evil with one political party? Only an idiot would believe such nonsense. Are you unaware that corruption is non-partisan and both parties and all individuals of the human race are capable. I don't mean to sound so harsh but sometimes I get the feeling that you and Hands are paid shills of the Democratic Party.

[Zonkerbl]

Zonk - Why do you and Hands constantly associate corruption and evil with one political party? Only an idiot would believe such nonsense. Are you unaware that corruption is non-partisan and both parties and all individuals of the human race are capable. I don't mean to sound so harsh but sometimes I get the feeling that you and Hands are paid shills of the Democratic Party.

Hey, now, don't put words in my mouth. I accuse, and have consistently accused, the Tea Partiers in the Republican Party, of criminal stupidity, no more, no less. I do not apologize for that or my consistency in doing so. What they did was monumentally, criminally stupid, unless they really understood what they were doing, in which case it was terrorism. As someone who generally supports the Republicans economic agenda, I am really, really offended by this -- someone representing the party of smart economics doing something this stupid. Makes me mad.

And if you've been paying attention to my posts in this thread, generally I find the Republicans guilty of hypocrisy, because their business model requires them to be so, and I find the Democrats incompetent, because that is their model.

You're right, I should be complaining more loudly about the Democrats inability to get their crap together and pass climate change legislation, gun control, and legalize marijuana. Republicans have succeeded in steering the conversation exclusively into their court, another sign of Democrat incompetence, them being in charge and all.

[Zonkerbl]

And wait, didn't I JUST post a criticism of the Dems and their idiotically stubborn defense of medicare?

[popper]

And wait, didn't I JUST post a criticism of the Dems and their idiotically stubborn defense of medicare?

Maybe I was a bit unfair to both you and Hands. No offense. Just verbal counter-punching. But I still don't understand the hatred for the Tea Party. I think their agenda is to push the country toward living within its means. What is so bad about that?

You might say that R's should accomplish their desired spending cuts via the normal budget process vs. leveraging D's through debt ceiling negotiations. That's a valid point except that D's haven't produced a budget until this month and up until now, R's have been unwilling to shut down the govt. to achieve their spending objectives.

Zonk - If you were an R, what would be your preference given the D's unwillingness to offer anything resembling a balanced budget (even over the next decade). I think Obama's newest budget puts us at $25 Trillion in debt in ten years.

Would you 1. Shut down the govt. until D's negotiate substantial cuts knowing in advance that the MSM will blame R's or 2. Leverage cuts through debt ceiling negotiations and again, suffer the wrath of the MSM and everybody else that has a dog in the show?

I don't see that the R's have a good option. What would you suggest?

[Zonkerbl]

The Republicans don't have to threaten anything. All they have to do is negotiate in good faith. It's their ridiculous stance on tax revenues, in my mind, that's holding everything up.

I would offer the Dems $180 billion a year in tax revenue from a $26/ton tax on carbon. Thats $1.8 trillion over ten years. This would achieve regulatory certainty -- they would have to agree to exclude greenhouse gases from the clean air act in return, of course. That was my answer to the Mercatus center when they asked me how to achieve reg certainty.

I'd offer them all the closures in tax loopholes they would want. All $500 billion worth.

I'd offer them gun control and marijuana legalization plus an additional $1.5 trillion in military reductions.

In exchange I would ask for $2.5 -- no, $4 trillion in reductions in medicaire/social security payments. However you want to do it -- chained inflation, change the retirement age, shoot old people -- whatever.

Take it or leave it. Democrats would take it in a heartbeat. If you want to play hardball, hold back some of the tax loopholes at first. Dems would take climate change, gun control, and marijuana legalization in a HEARTBEAT.

AND! I would demand that the corporate income tax be replaced by a VAT.

[Zonkerbl]

This is what I HATE about the Dems. You can't negotiate with them, because the people who care about marijuana don't give a DAMN about gun control, the people who would fight to the DEATH over medicare couldn't care less about marijuana legalization.

The whole party is a big fat incompetent fractured mess.

Bastards.

[popper]

The Republicans don't have to threaten anything. All they have to do is negotiate in good faith. It's their ridiculous stance on tax revenues, in my mind, that's holding everything up.

I would offer the Dems $180 billion a year in tax revenue from a $26/ton tax on carbon. Thats $1.8 trillion over ten years. This would achieve regulatory certainty -- they would have to agree to exclude greenhouse gases from the clean air act in return, of course. That was my answer to the Mercatus center when they asked me how to achieve reg certainty.

I'd offer them all the closures in tax loopholes they would want. All $500 billion worth.

I'd offer them gun control and marijuana legalization plus an additional $1.5 trillion in military reductions.

In exchange I would ask for $2.5 -- no, $4 trillion in reductions in medicaire/social security payments. However you want to do it -- chained inflation, change the retirement age, shoot old people -- whatever.

Take it or leave it. Democrats would take it in a heartbeat. If you want to play hardball, hold back some of the tax loopholes at first. Dems would take climate change, gun control, and marijuana legalization in a HEARTBEAT.

AND! I would demand that the corporate income tax be replaced by a VAT.

Really good stuff Zonk. I'd have to spend a lot of time analyzing your proposal to understand all the ramifications but I admire your ability to put one together on such short notice. Most people would just punt and go back to their favorite tv show. I'll have some questions tomorrow.

Edit - i particularly like the "shoot the old people" policy option.

[Zonkerbl]

I asked my friend who works for Upton if she would go for the carbon tax offer and she nixed it.

[hands11]

Thanks, Pine. This thread inspires me. I use it as a kind of crucible to develop ideas that I end up using later in my job. I can safely say that much of the success that I've had at work is a direct result of the discussion inspired by this thread.

Next week this thread will go subscription only for $1000 a month. Don't worry, you can write it off.

So what do you do again ?

Economist. Less than a year ago I switched from U.S. reg stuff (thus needing to read a lot of legal decisions where someone has sued a regulator and I have to understand what the issues were and translate it in my head from legalese to economicese, so I'm practically a lawyer now) to work on U.S. foreign aid assistance programs with the Millennium Challenge Corporation (created as by the Republicans to be quasi independent from the State Department and implement the bleeding edge of Development Aid methods, thus the primary role of economists there). Important when we're telling other countries to be transparent and accountable and to ensure due process to know what that means and express the ideas clearly, so I come here and talk about how our court system works and what's going on in the economy. It's extremely good practice to come here and practice expressing my thoughts in an understandable way. So you guys get free Ph.D. economist thinking and I get to impress people with my awesome communication skills at work. Also good practice to not blow up during an argument -- easier if you've seen the argument before and are expecting it.

Awesome. That makes posting here a little more worth while if its actually going to go to good use.

[hands11]

I've recently read a number of articles on youth unemployment, especially in the black community. I think the head of BET commented on it recently as well. So here is a first pass at some possible solutions.

1. Dispense with separating youth by race and develop programs that address at-risk youth generally (within reason).

2. Discipline both in school and at home are essential ingredients in equipping youth for hard work and employment. I've observed that there is a marked lack of discipline in many youth today and because of that, their grades are bad and they don't seem sufficiently motivated to excel.

What to do? First, prepare for the fact that many youth today are raised by one parent who, in many instances, don't have the skills, experience or time to instill sufficient discipline. One possible solution here is to send these kids to some sort of mild six week boot camp where responsible, educated adult volunteers can work with them. No TV, no iphones, just study, exercise and healthy living. Emphasize stories of successful individuals that came from poverty, and through sheer force of will and discipline, rose to greatness. People like Dr. Ben Carson come to mind. To pay for the aforementioned program one solution would be to cut Big Bird, NPR, green energy grants to companies that go bankrupt, the Dept. of Education, etc. Plenty of money is available for re-programming if we prioritize our youth over other less essential spending.

3. I would modify minimum wage laws and guarantee the recent boot camp graduates a job. Perhaps they work for 6 mo. at $5 per hour to develop necessary job skills. After that, they should be able to make minimum wage and much more over time. I would also equip each one with an ipad-type device and offer a cut-rate online college degree program. The kids would pay some percentage of their earnings (say 20%) and as long as they make progress on their degree their education would continue to be subsidized by 80%.

4. Last, I would establish free vocational schools and offer courses for those trades that are, or are expected to be, in demand. If additional funding is necessary, I would sell millions of acres of idle, federally owned land, and other federal assets to fund any shortfall.

What do you think?

Sounds like you want to grind your axe against one kind of socialism for the kind you like.

Peace corp. Mandatory 1 or 2 years of service. Anything like that would work.

What you are getting at is that there used to be a draft so more people got what you are talking about. A higher percentage of the populate had skin in the American game. And in that process, they got discipline, learned about leadership and pushing through. They also got plugged into tons of socialism and government run programs. Grants. Schooling. Healthcare.

That kind of service was a great educator and a great melting pot.

[hands11]

What Obama Just Did

Stefan --

He actually did it.

President Obama just sent his budget to Congress -- including his dangerous cuts to Social Security.

He did so over the objections of more than two million members of his own party, members who fought long and hard to put him in office.

But this battle is far from over.

DFA is taking this fight to Congress, where we're going district by district to reject this reckless plan.

I'm asking you to stand up for Social Security by pitching in $4 or more today. Will you join us?

Thanks for all you do,

- Jim

Jim Dean, Chair
Democracy for America

Ok, this is what's wrong with America. YOU DON'T BOO YOUR OWN PLAYERS!

Republicans do it all the time. The right hand has no idea what the left hand is doing and, when known, will cancel out any value of the larger message in pursuit self-aggrandizement. Kind of funny in a sense and confirms that those with low intellect run the circus. At least D's generally receive and regurgitate the talking points in unison, mindless as the are.

Wow, you really do live in the bubble pops.

Dems regurgitate talking points in unison ?

If only they were that organized. I have to admit, they have gotten a little better during Obama's term. Actually it started just before him getting there. But they sucked terribly at it for 30 years before then.

Republicans are the masters of the talking point. If Dems are catching on, it only because they learned by copying the masters. Hell, Rs even created a legislation jukebox. Just download the bills and ram it through in your state.

We don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem.
Job killing...fill in the blank
The job creators
Tax and spend
Democrats want to punish success.

Now today, they are less organized then they were before the Tea Partiers arrived but they are still a talking point machine. Mitch, P Ryan and John B as masters at it.