Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V

[mhd]

I want no parts of Derrick Williams if it involves the #3 pick. He shouldn't command that type of value, even if it's a pick swap.

I can see DWill for some combo of Booker or Seraphin & Vesely, but that's as far as I'll go.

I wouldn't do that deal, but its a deal I think EG would consider (especially if he could land Zeller/Len at #9). I think there are better deals out there.

[GhostsOfGil]

From Michael Lee's twitter:

https://twitter.com/MrMichaelLee

"2 Western Conference executives walked up to me in ABC studios after the lottery & said, "Have fun with Otto Porter"

"One of the executives added that taking Porter is "a no-brainer." Another thought CLE was a wild card that could take him first. We'll see"

I need to watch more film on him. I'm having trouble understanding the Otto hype.

[Rafael122]

Failure is not an option at this point.

Should it ever be? (Rhetorical)

Regarding the Porter debate, why is Webster even factoring into who we draft? Webster is a UFA coming off a a career year after signing for the vet minimum. We are talking about adding a 3rd piece to build around. Webster should be an afterthought right now.

I just don't think Porter is that much better than Webster is. Porter will be making roughly the same as a resigned Webster would be. Dat, you said it yourself, finding cheap vet swingmen is available every off-season. If Porter is basically the next Tayshaun Prince (a 4th banana on a winning team), why waste the #3 pick on him? Porter doesn't have Paul George athleticism. I don't think he's as good an athlete as Batum is either.

I don't see why it's either/or. Webster is perfectly capable of backing up sg/sf and Porter is perfectly capable of backing up sf/pf (as can Ariza if Porter is given the opportunity to start). It adds flexibility, veteran moxy, and continuity to our roster in one fell swoop.

Webster had a career year, true but it's not like his year was breakout or anything. 11/4/2 on 44/42/85 shooting is mildly impressive but I doubt his phone is ringing off the hook. Matt Barnes has had a comparable career and he only got a 1 year deal worth 1.2 mil. The nightmare scenario is someone pays him Jared Dudley money (4 years 17 mil) and that's absurd, phoenix-is-desperate money.

Webster isn't getting $1.2 mil. He made $1.7 mil, no way he's getting a pay cut. He's gonna get a $3 mil or $4 mil deal from someone. Even if he's a hybrid sub at the 2 and 3 spot, that's still a lot of money tied up into Webster/Ariza, and now Porter who's gonna make MLE money right off the bat. Not to mention Beal as well makes a lil over $4 million. That's 1/4 of your payroll tied up in 4 guys.

[sfam]

From Michael Lee's twitter:

https://twitter.com/MrMichaelLee

"2 Western Conference executives walked up to me in ABC studios after the lottery & said, "Have fun with Otto Porter"

"One of the executives added that taking Porter is "a no-brainer." Another thought CLE was a wild card that could take him first. We'll see"

It would be hard to feel bad about that, even though I like Bennett. Both are better than who would have gotten with the #8.

[miller31time]

Unless Noel falls to 3, the answer to this question is Porter. It shouldn't even be up for discussion, to be honest.

Wall
Beal
Porter
Nene
Okafor

That's 45 to 50 wins, providing health.

[sfam]

Failure is not an option at this point.

Should it ever be? (Rhetorical)

I just don't think Porter is that much better than Webster is. Porter will be making roughly the same as a resigned Webster would be. Dat, you said it yourself, finding cheap vet swingmen is available every off-season. If Porter is basically the next Tayshaun Prince (a 4th banana on a winning team), why waste the #3 pick on him? Porter doesn't have Paul George athleticism. I don't think he's as good an athlete as Batum is either.

I don't see why it's either/or. Webster is perfectly capable of backing up sg/sf and Porter is perfectly capable of backing up sf/pf (as can Ariza if Porter is given the opportunity to start). It adds flexibility, veteran moxy, and continuity to our roster in one fell swoop.

Webster had a career year, true but it's not like his year was breakout or anything. 11/4/2 on 44/42/85 shooting is mildly impressive but I doubt his phone is ringing off the hook. Matt Barnes has had a comparable career and he only got a 1 year deal worth 1.2 mil. The nightmare scenario is someone pays him Jared Dudley money (4 years 17 mil) and that's absurd, phoenix-is-desperate money.

Webster isn't getting $1.2 mil. He made $1.7 mil, no way he's getting a pay cut. He's gonna get a $3 mil or $4 mil deal from someone. Even if he's a hybrid sub at the 2 and 3 spot, that's still a lot of money tied up into Webster/Ariza, and now Porter who's gonna make MLE money right off the bat. Not to mention Beal as well makes a lil over $4 million. That's 1/4 of your payroll tied up in 4 guys.

If we draft Porter, Webster is gone.

[nuposse04]

To those who insist Oladipo can't play the 3, you're wrong. It might not be his best position, but he can play it. His max verticle reach was about 2 inches short of the best at the combine and 5 inches longer than 7 foot center Olynyk - and his wingspan was a half inch shorter than Olynyk's. He weighed in at 213 lbs (14 more than Porter) and is very strong.

Nobody is able to get maximum lift in from the wing position in half court offense. Max vert only matters in fast break our back door cuts IMO. I think the whole "small" ball thing may help him at the 3 as a lot of elite 3s can be used as 4s. I don't think Oladipo could cover guys like:

Melo, LBJ, Gay (although he kinda defends himself), George, harkless, MKG, Harris, Leonard, Durant, Parsons...

He's going to be a good player at the 2, so why not just leave him at the two? I don't think its wise to take them out of his natural position.

[GhostsOfGil]

What do you guys think about Porter's outside shooting? Is there any reason to believe that last season was a fluke?

[sfam]

Unless Noel falls to 3, the answer to this question is Porter. It shouldn't even be up for discussion, to be honest.

Wall
Beal
Porter
Nene
Okafor

That's 45 to 50 wins, providing health.

The discussion is we still have no depth up front (or in the back court for that matter), and currently look fine at the SF position. Also, Bennett has a higher upside (and more risk).

[Rafael122]

What do you guys think about Porter's outside shooting? Is there any reason to believe that last season was a fluke?

He's only going to get better. Like I said earlier, he's 19 years old and doesn't turn 20 until early June. He's a high basketball IQ type of player, great defender, he's only going to improve. Even the way he is now, a Tayshaun Prince-type of player, the Wizards could use something like that.

[Dark Faze]

What do you guys think about Porter's outside shooting? Is there any reason to believe that last season was a fluke?

I think people get nervous because Prince is brought up. Porter is a rich mans Prince. He's a significantly better finisher than Prince and is far better in transition.

As for shooting I'm not too worried. You get worried when guys shoot well from deep and bad from the foul line but Porter improved both. .77% from FT so his shooting improvement seems to have been legitimate.

[SCourGe OF GoD]

Unless Noel falls to 3, the answer to this question is Porter. It shouldn't even be up for discussion, to be honest.

Wall
Beal
Porter
Nene
Okafor

That's 45 to 50 wins, providing health.

Would need a big that could get his own down low...like Al Jeff or somehting and like u said thats assuming they all stay healhty

[mhd]

What do you guys think about Porter's outside shooting? Is there any reason to believe that last season was a fluke?

I think people get nervous because Prince is brought up. Porter is a rich mans Prince. He's a significantly better finisher than Prince and is far better in transition.

As for shooting I'm not too worried. You get worried when guys shoot well from deep and bad from the foul line but Porter improved both. .77% from FT so his shooting improvement seems to have been legitimate.

Prince has always had an excellent post game.

[Deeptu McPullup]

The elephant in the room of the "draft Porter as a core piece" scenario is that we can't afford to keep him, Beal and Wall on their second contracts, pay quality bigs at market rate and stay under the tax.

There are literally no quality teams under the luxury tax with three highly paid wings on the roster. The current CBA does not really allow mid-market teams to have three highly paid wings.

If it comes to it, it'd be better to take Dipo, play him for a few years and then work out a trade down the road with the reasoning being that Dipo's long term trade value is higher than Porter's.

Porter's long term fit potential doesn't even come into the equation for me.

[Dark Faze]

did you really just mention salary 4 years down the road as a reason not to take the BPA lol

OKC could have kept 4 near max players but they chose not to

The way the CBA is you can have 4 near max guys and a bunch of real low salary guys

Wiz would have 3 and thats IF Porter and Beal command near maxes.

Assuming Okafors next contract is only as long as Nenes, we'll be able to afford a decent big once they expire.

[pancakes3]

Dark Faze, even if you dont want Webster back there are plenty of options for a SF role player, 3&D guy every offseason, and that's what you need next to Wall and Beal, not Porter.

You just don't pick a guy like Porter top3, unless he's the perfect fit, like it was for Cleveland for example.

Washington needs a guy with a better shot than Porter and stronger.

I'll draft Muhammad ahead of Porter, if they stay at 3 they pick is going to be Bennett.

I dont want anything to do with Derrick Williams and whoever they pick at 9, like Len or Zeller.

Anyway I'd trade the pick plus Ariza for a Horford in a sec.

A college SF doesn't get to be a much better shooter than Porter. He's not a statistical anomaly like Evan Turner or Derrick Williams were (high %'s, low attempts). In fact, 3 point shooting may be Porter's most marketable NBA skill as of right now. Muhammed is definitely not a better shooter and I'd argue not a better scorer either.

Webster isn't getting $1.2 mil. He made $1.7 mil, no way he's getting a pay cut. He's gonna get a $3 mil or $4 mil deal from someone. Even if he's a hybrid sub at the 2 and 3 spot, that's still a lot of money tied up into Webster/Ariza, and now Porter who's gonna make MLE money right off the bat. Not to mention Beal as well makes a lil over $4 million. That's 1/4 of your payroll tied up in 4 guys.

I'll preface that in saying tying up 1/4 of our payroll in 4 guys when 2 of those guys are long-term starters and locked in until 2016 sounds pretty darn good to me considering Kobe's contract alone takes up 1/2 the capspace, and max contracts take up 1/4-1/3 of the capspace alone. Anyway, even the 1/4 figure is skewed since Ariza's contract is an expiring and he certainly won't be costing us 7.5 mil/year long term.

I think giving Webster 10 mil/3seasons, 12mil/4seasons is reasonable for a supersub that can back up sg/sf for 25 mpg. It'll allow you leverage in future trade-down scenarios, provide veteran leadership, and injury insurance moving forward.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I seriously think EG would trade down with Minny for Derrick WIlliams in a Ves swap. Its an interesting trade proposal. Poster on the trade board even offered Minny's #26. The Wiz could probably get Len/Zeller with that 9th pick.

Would a #3+Ves+Knicks 2nd rounder for #9+Derrick Williams+#26 deal be palatable for the fellow Wiz fans?

Derrick Williams is a proven bust, so his being apart of the deal is irrelevant. He does nothing well, absolutely nothing.

The number #26 is irrelevant, we can trade second rounders or Seraphin and find a way to move up if we want that.

You take Porter and run with it.

No, Williams is still not 22 years old. His PER was 14,5 and he averaged 17.5 and 8.1 per-36 minutes.

Olynyk and Williams for the pick and Vesely seems like a decent deal. The Wizards could stick with Webster and Ariza at three. The two young guys would have time to develop off the bench at 4.

I think trading the pick could really be a good way to improve the team. There are much better trades than this possible.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I want no parts of Derrick Williams if it involves the #3 pick. He shouldn't command that type of value, even if it's a pick swap.

I can see DWill for some combo of Booker or Seraphin & Vesely, but that's as far as I'll go.

I think Derrick for Vesely is okay if the Wizards get Olynyk at 9 from Minnesota.

[Mizerooskie]

Don't really agree with the knocking down of Bennett to build up Porter.

Defensive play can be taught, as can a post game. Natural talent and athleticism can't be. Otto Porter really does scream 'Evan Turner' to me. Pretty good at just about everything, great at nothing. Maybe there's some hidden upside in there.

It's really a shame Bennett didn't measure at the combine. That would really clear up what I believe is a muddy picture.

I suppose the discussion's all academic though. There's absolutely no chance Ted and EG pass on a Georgetown guy when he's not considered a reach, even if Bennett might be the better prospect.

[Deeptu McPullup]

I seriously think EG would trade down with Minny for Derrick WIlliams in a Ves swap. Its an interesting trade proposal. Poster on the trade board even offered Minny's #26. The Wiz could probably get Len/Zeller with that 9th pick.

Would a #3+Ves+Knicks 2nd rounder for #9+Derrick Williams+#26 deal be palatable for the fellow Wiz fans?

I'm strongly in favor of trading the pick, but my working rule is we should be able to say what we got for the third pick in under two seconds without using the word "and".

If we're listing three or four assorted pieces I'm not really interested. Eventually we'd have to offer contracts to each of those pieces for more money than we'd have spent by staying at 3 and taking the BPA. Even if you can say that those three or four guys are better on balance than Office-Dipo, it's not like you wouldn't have been able to acquire the middling sweetener by other means while keeping the 3rd pick.

My rule: get a singular piece and make it a big or use the pick.