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Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V

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The Consiglieri
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#301 » by The Consiglieri » Wed May 22, 2013 6:54 pm

FAH1223 wrote:Mike Wise:

"The truth: Grunfeld can’t take a chance on this June’s No. 3 pick not being a key contributor this upcoming season. He has one year remaining on his contract with the team. He can plan for the future all he wants, but that’s a fact. Don’t trade the pick to save your job, trade it for a fan base that hasn’t seen the playoffs in five years."


He is so stupid.


If anyone ever wants to know why newspaper's are dying, that article is example #1. Absolutely moronic. Nobody who used to buy papers to read the sports section does so anymore, the internet media is a far more reliable source of information and informed analysis, then the half wits serving as columnists at most papers. Not too often you get to use the word execrable for an article, but today you do.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#302 » by Zonkerbl » Wed May 22, 2013 6:54 pm

GhostsOfGil wrote:I think theres a real chance Noel slips to us. I still have yet to hear a solid argument hes worthy of a top 3 pick though.


He scores pretty high in Nivek's YODA system mainly on the strength of rebounding, steals, and blocks. Add some bulk and some offense and you have a pretty exceptional player.

If he fell to us I'd take him. We have decent starters in our frontcourt so we can afford to wait for him to develop. Noel is already pretty good so it's not too much of a risk. OTOH the best predictor of future injury is past injuries, so in that sense I'd hate to have to make that decision. You know? Hopefully he doesn't fall to us so we don't have to worry about it.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#303 » by dobrojim » Wed May 22, 2013 6:55 pm

fugop wrote:I would be titillated if we somehow came out of this draft with Porter and Dieng. I think Dieng is going to challenge Noel as the best big man in this draft, and Porter will end up the best swing men.

I'm biased by collegiate affiliation, but Siva measured remarkable well at the combine. He even shot well. If he's able to fix his stroke, he could end up a steal in the second round.

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_asset ... AAL5bS.jpg


I tend to agree fugop. I understand the reasons why folks discount solid play
by players who are older, but Dieng flat out got it done for the last 2 years.
I think he will adapt quickly to the NBA and be a reasonable role big.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#304 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed May 22, 2013 6:56 pm

Ruzious wrote:
DCZards wrote:
doclinkin wrote:
That said I still like Dipo a little better than Porter. Porter just seems to fit the chemistry and scheme and minutes available to play with our core more often. That would be drafting for need not best player. Long term I think Dipo may prove a better player at 2-3 than Porter at 3. But you can win with either of them, so I'll shrug and accept whomever.


I'm just not seeing a lot of minutes for Oladipo at the 3...not at 6-4. Yeah, he's a great athlete but he'll be consistently going up against guys who are 2-4 inches taller than him...many of them long and great athletes as well. I just don't see Dipo's athleticisim always making up for the size difference.

I agree with Doc's analysis. But I concur that the Wiz would/will almost certainly take Porter over Oladipo.


Oladipo is probably as good or better than Beal at SG.

An insane, brass balls move would be to draft Oladipo and trade Beal along with Seraphin and Vesely for Cousins and a pick. :)

That would never happen, of course. Drafting Porter or Len are the only things I see happening.

Simply trading the pick for Boogie and a future has some merit.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#305 » by Upper Decker » Wed May 22, 2013 6:56 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:Count me as part of the camp that wants nothing to do with Bennett...don't like his attitude at all. Then again, we've been spoiled with Beal this past year.


I am also in that camp. I don't want Bennett.


I don't want Bennett and his attitude has nothing to do with it. He's a tweener and not a good tweener like Lebron or Melo, but a bad tweener like Derrick Williams, Michael Beasley, Ike Diagu, Antawn Jamison, etc. Who is he going to guard?
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#306 » by GhostsOfGil » Wed May 22, 2013 6:56 pm

truwizfan4evr wrote:
sfam wrote:
GhostsOfGil wrote:I think theres a real chance Noel slips to us. I still have yet to hear a solid argument hes worthy of a top 3 pick though.

Exactly. He may be on his second contract before he potentially becomes a difference maker - and then only if he doesn't break.

A lot of young big's come into NBA really skinny just have to hit the weight room he be a good rebounder and shot blocker in his rookie year and beyond.


Ya but we're talking about rail thin. 205 with a slight frame is not something to ignore.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#307 » by dobrojim » Wed May 22, 2013 7:00 pm

The Consiglieri wrote:
Rafael122 wrote:Porter had 30 points against Syracuse in their final Big East game against the Orange at the Carrier Dome. Porter was a Player of the Year Finalist. You can't sit there and say their highs weren't that impressive. Porter was impressive enough to get national attention at the end of the year. You mentioned Bennett and his game against Air Force. Air Force. He dominated his conference, he should have. He's playing teams like Air Force.


Kind of like Porter should have dominated Florida Gulf Coast? What did he do again in that umpteenth consecutive first round loss to an inferior seeded team? Yeah. Squat.

For the record, you make plenty of other solid arguments, though I'd say the point was that Bennett destroyed teams with a game that is NBA dominant. A game that would translate to dominance in the NBA. Porter consistently had good to very good games showcasing a game that could be solid to good at the next level. The difference isn't the highs so much as what the highs displayed.

I love that article on Otto though and his family. Sounds like Beal, sounds like a guy that can start for 10 years and consistently be a great robin. Problem is that we have 3 robin's, if he's a robin, and no Batman.

Bennett may be a Batman. At worst, he should be a lethal scorer with some issues on the defensive end that may or may not be able to be coached up. I see no signs of a crummy attitude and he was perfectly fine in the interview. Felt to me like people were essentially looking for responses to dislike, to paste a rep on Bennett that doesn't exist. He didn't come off as remotely cocky, arrogant, foolish or immature. Just sounded like the 19 year old basketball player he's been.

If Bennett doesn't make any sense here, than why do I keep hearing story after story and source after source suggesting that in a few years, he could be the best player from thsi draft? I've never heard that once about Porter. For the record I also saw that ability from Bennett on the court when he was healthy, never saw it with Porter (though again, i think Porter has a really nice floor, the more i look at him).


the Wall that won PotM and had a PPA > 200 is definitely a Batman.
Fair question to ask if he can do that for a full season. But if he can
'only' do 90% of that for a full season, that still puts him well among
the elite players in the league.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#308 » by Dark Faze » Wed May 22, 2013 7:00 pm

GhostsOfGil wrote:I think theres a real chance Noel slips to us. I still have yet to hear a solid argument hes worthy of a top 3 pick though.


He's arguably as strong of a defensive prospect as Davis. Not quite as good of a block percentage, rebounding or defense, but the numbers are close enough. Davis is a far better two way prospect though with far superior intangibles.

The thing that makes Noel potentially a better defensive player for the NBA game than Davis is his high steal rate brought on by elite foot speed and reaction time. Noel is much quicker and bouncier than Davis. So potentially he'll be better at guarding quicker perimeter players as well as the PNR.

He needs to get stronger but he'll get there.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#309 » by AFM » Wed May 22, 2013 7:00 pm

pancakes3 wrote:The higher 3p% was for 102 attempts so it's more likely the lower percentage was the fluke.

Okay thanks. I probably misread the 40 as 3PA rather than makes.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#310 » by sfam » Wed May 22, 2013 7:02 pm

GhostsOfGil wrote:
truwizfan4evr wrote:
sfam wrote:Exactly. He may be on his second contract before he potentially becomes a difference maker - and then only if he doesn't break.

A lot of young big's come into NBA really skinny just have to hit the weight room he be a good rebounder and shot blocker in his rookie year and beyond.


Ya but we're talking about rail thin. 205 with a slight frame is not something to ignore.


At that size and weight you'd be able to calculate how much he had for lunch by looking at the size of the lump in his stomach. This is not a good sign.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#311 » by Nivek » Wed May 22, 2013 7:04 pm

doclinkin wrote:
In addition there's a possible Zeller effect, the possibility that teams knew to concentrate on the interior to shut him down, freeing Oladipo to play freer on the outside. By contrast Porter was pretty much all of GTown's production, but still managed efficient production. Just one theory to d1ck around with and monkeywrench the pet homebrew metric. A correction not for strength of schedule but strength of teammates :clown: a synergy correction. Just a thought.


The strength of schedule metric I use also incorporates team strength. Going 0-32 against a brutal schedule isn't as impressive as 31-1, you know? And, while teammates surely do help each other, good teammates also compete with each other for stats. This is true for rebounds (especially on the defensive end), and scoring opportunities (at times).

Both Zeller and Oladipo were extremely efficient last season. They likely helped each other because the defense couldn't really focus full attention on either guy.

That said I still like Dipo a little better than Porter. Porter just seems to fit the chemistry and scheme and minutes available to play with our core more often. That would be drafting for need not best player. Long term I think Dipo may prove a better player at 2-3 than Porter at 3. But you can win with either of them, so I'll shrug and accept whomever.

I just would prefer to trade back a little and still pick a needed talent and add something else. Get greedy.


I prefer Oladipo to Porter as well, but I can see the argument for picking Otto. I'm not convinced Oladipo can play SF in the NBA, though because of his size. On the other hand, he likely wouldn't do much less non-scoring work than Webster, and he's a junkyard dog on defense. So, maybe.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#312 » by GhostsOfGil » Wed May 22, 2013 7:05 pm

dobrojim wrote:the Wall that won PotM and had a PPA > 200 is definitely a Batman.
Fair question to ask if he can do that for a full season. But if he can
'only' do 90% of that for a full season, that still puts him well among
the elite players in the league.


:lol: I love how PPA is a justifiable measure of ranking people around here now. With that said, I doubt Wall will consistently play at or near that level. He was hitting ~60% of his jump shots that month.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#313 » by Upper Decker » Wed May 22, 2013 7:06 pm

David Faulk basically dropped a nuke bomb on the Wizards organization earlier last season. Does the fact that he's Porter's agent play into what the Wizards do at all?
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#314 » by dobrojim » Wed May 22, 2013 7:08 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
Nivek wrote:YODA update with all athletic test info (available) added. Here's the top 10:

  1. Oladipo
  2. Zeller
  3. Noel
  4. McLemore
  5. Porter
  6. Adams
  7. Bennett
  8. Burke
  9. Olynyk
  10. Carter-Williams

Oladipo looks like a worthy top pick. His final YODA rating is about the same as Ray Allen (JR), Patrick Ewing (SR), Jordan (SO), Chris Paul (FR), Ty Lawson (JR). The only guy in the database with a rating this good that was a bust: Michael Beasley. Hansbrough's final rating was close, but a notch below, and he's at least a useful role player.

Zeller looks like a solid 2nd pick in most drafts.

At 3, the Wizards will be able to choose between several players who rate in YODA as being worth a top 5 pick.

Unlike some others, I don't think Oladipo has the size to play SF regularly in the NBA. His standing reach would be well-below average for a SF, although his athleticism would still be outstanding. He'd still rate as the top pick if I evaluate him as a SF, but I think he (and his future team) would be happier if he's a SG.


Oladipo is TSN's Defensive POTY. He led the Big Ten in eFG%, even shot 44% from the NCAA three point line. He finished with better offensive and defensive ratings than Porter.

Oladipo could become a Dwyane Wade-type player.


I agree that that is a definite possibility that needs to be weighed, or Wade as it were (sorry).
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#315 » by Nivek » Wed May 22, 2013 7:08 pm

truwizfan4evr wrote:Would anyone want to draft Shane Larkin in second round? He did well in draft combine.


He's projected as a 1st rounder, I believe. If he was there in the 2nd round, I'd take him. He rates as a late lottery pick in YODA.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#316 » by GhostsOfGil » Wed May 22, 2013 7:09 pm

Dark Faze wrote:
GhostsOfGil wrote:I think theres a real chance Noel slips to us. I still have yet to hear a solid argument hes worthy of a top 3 pick though.


He's arguably as strong of a defensive prospect as Davis. Not quite as good of a block percentage, rebounding or defense, but the numbers are close enough. Davis is a far better two way prospect though with far superior intangibles.

The thing that makes Noel potentially a better defensive player for the NBA game than Davis is his high steal rate brought on by elite foot speed and reaction time. Noel is much quicker and bouncier than Davis. So potentially he'll be better at guarding quicker perimeter players as well as the PNR.

He needs to get stronger but he'll get there.


2 knee injuries in that past 4 years with a frame as narrow as a point guard. Yes I understand he is a freak athlete with ridiculous bounce but the chance he washes out seems more likely than him becoming the defensive study he's touted to be.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#317 » by stevemcqueen1 » Wed May 22, 2013 7:11 pm

DCZards wrote:
stevemcqueen1 wrote:
Porter looks like he has good upper body strength. He's got good muscle tone. He's just got no bulk and has a skinny base.

But he gets it done. That kind of defines him for me:
- Didn't play AAU, still ended up a top college player and NBA prospect.
- Not that strong nor a leaper, but he gets a TON of rebounds outside his area.
- Not fast and looks awkward when he runs, but he creates space for himself to shoot and finishes well in transition.
- Got a funny looking jumper but it goes in.

People are always going to be wondering how he's as good as he is throughout his career because he's so unconventional. But he's going to play winning basketball and get great results in spite of being an abnormal player. He's just figured out what works for himself and mastered his own approach to the game. He's an odd bird.


Excellent description of Porter's game. Unconventional and awkward as hell but knows how to play winning basketball on both ends of the court. Otto is a highly-instinctive player as well as a poised facilitator who will help make his teammates better.

There are a lot of options out there for the Zards with third pick (including trades) but right now drafting Porter, assuming the Cavs don't take him, is option #1 , imo.


I'm gravitating to this as well. I'd probably go Noel #1 if he's there, Porter #2, Zeller #3. I've got Noel at one because I think he can be a game changing defensive big like Joakim Noah. Porter at #2 as the best two way player for us at three. Zeller #3 as a high upside offensive big man who won't be total crap on D. In fact, I think Zeller ends up a solid defensive big man because of his intelligence and athleticism.

I agree that what makes Porter special are his elite instincts. He anticipates the game so well. He makes a lot of big plays in spite of his ordinary athleticism. He does everything right. Big communicator on D that can lock it down and force turnovers. I think he's probably the third best defensive player among the high lotto guys behind Noel and Dipo. And he's a better offensive player than both of them, he has very advanced skills from mid range and for finishing in transition. He torched the Syracuse zone when that thing really bothered a lot of people this year. He just had the keys to unlocking it with his tremendously diverse mid range game. I'd say him and Bazz have the best mid range games among the likely lottery picks, followed by Burke and McCollum. Porter can post up too and will generate some offense out of the high post. And Porter is a far better passer than Bazz so he's a more complete offensive player.

I think Porter is the most skilled and holistic offensive perimeter player in the class. He's the most well rounded because he does all of these things at a high level:

- Highly effective creating and scoring off the dribble.
- Highly effective finisher in transition with a good command of a variety of moves and great below the rim game.
- Reliable spot up shooter.
- Excellent off the ball ability, very important for playing with John Wall (and something Bennett lacks).
- Excellent passer, can facilitate the offense from the perimeter and in the open court, keeps the ball moving.
- Excellent generating contact in the lane and getting to the FT line.
- Excellent at sniffing out offensive boards for extra possessions and getting hustle points.

Guys like Zeller, Bazz , McLemore, Bennett, and Dipo are also very offensively skilled and they too are masters of some of those things. But they aren't as good at all of those things as Porter is.

So I'm thinking Porter is the best two way option for us at three.

Like Zeller, he's squeaky clean for me. No significant weaknesses as a player, just body or athleticism limitations. Those guys bring a lot of great things to the table and they take nothing away from it. They could fit in great with every team in the league. We've got some long term structures (and barriers) we have to build around now--Wall at PG, Beal at SG, Nene at a big spot. Having a guy who can come in and fit into our construction seamlessly is important.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#318 » by Dark Faze » Wed May 22, 2013 7:17 pm

Wade was a 22PPG scorer as a Soph, 18PPG as a fresh. Averaged over 4 APG and blocked over a shot per game.

Oladipo isn't even close to him. I'm pretty concerned about him offensively. He shot only 68 three pointers so you can't rely on his deep ball to translate, too small of a sample size considering how terrible he was as a shooter the years prior.

Also, why was someone as hyper efficient as Porter attempting only 8 shots a game? 13.6 PPG? He's clearly not better than Wade at any aspect of basketball and honestly he's not even close. Porter is also better than him at almost everything--scoring, defense, rebounding, even assists.

I don't think Oladipo is going to be bad. I think he's going to be a great sixth man, but I question his starting ability and I don't think he's even close to McLemore as a prospect.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#319 » by dobrojim » Wed May 22, 2013 7:18 pm

Upper Decker wrote:David Faulk basically dropped a nuke bomb on the Wizards organization earlier last season. Does the fact that he's Porter's agent play into what the Wizards do at all?


I commented on this earlier

regarding Falk, who cares? There is no negotiation. The contracts for incoming rookies
are already set. 4 years from now, it could become an issue I suppose, but that's a long time from now.
And if Porter has the kind of character that is being reported, and if we have the kind of
success during this interval, resigning him after 4 years shouldn't be any worse a problem
because of Falk than it would be for any other player.


edit to add - worst case scenario - he is good enough to demand a mx or near
max deal. I'm sure that is the kind of problem that keeps Ted/EG awake at night.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#320 » by Zonkerbl » Wed May 22, 2013 7:18 pm

I'm going to put my faith in YODA and say that Zeller would be a safer pick for us than Porter. His mobility as measured in the combine is outstanding, which is a good indicator that his success in college will translate to the NBA. We need a big more than we need Porter, and it's less clear to me that Porter's success will translate to the next level.
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