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Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V

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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#481 » by GhostsOfGil » Thu May 23, 2013 5:34 pm

sfam wrote:Bennett will quickly make us lots better at rebounding so this will help. More to the point, while Washington is top 10 in DEF EFF, we are the absolute worst at OFF EFF. Porter may help us a little, but newsflash, folks, we need a lot of help there. The Wizards absolutely must improve on offense - Bennett is the best ticket to get there.


The line up of Wall, Beal, Webster, Nene, and Okafor was the 5th most productive line up last year and was 13-3 when starting together. Our offense will improve greatly if we get consistent minutes from this group. I was high on Bennette but he should be drafted as a building block, not as a player to lean on for immediate offense.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#482 » by nate33 » Thu May 23, 2013 5:38 pm

As I've mentioned before, I don't believe it's true that Bennett can't play defense or is completely unwilling to play defense. I think it's likely that he was in a position as the best offensive threat on his team to loaf a bit on defense to preserve energy and fouls. And that decision was supported by his coach (or at least, not actively resisted). Blake Griffin did the same thing.

I think to get a clearer picture of this, we need to know more about Bennett's background. Is he a hard worker? Does he spend hours in the gym working on his shot, his ball handling, and his post moves? If he does, then I don't think it'll be such a huge problem to convince him to apply that same work ethic on defense now that he'll be playing in the pros and won't be the sole offensive option for his team.

Now, it may be true that he's just a lazy bum. If that's the case, then, yeah, we don't want him. I just want to make sure that we do the research to answer the question. The mere fact that he played lackadaisical defense in college this year doesn't necessarily guarantee that he's a lost cause, condemned forever to be the worst defensive big man in NBA history.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#483 » by tontoz » Thu May 23, 2013 5:41 pm

GhostsOfGil wrote:
sfam wrote:Bennett will quickly make us lots better at rebounding so this will help. More to the point, while Washington is top 10 in DEF EFF, we are the absolute worst at OFF EFF. Porter may help us a little, but newsflash, folks, we need a lot of help there. The Wizards absolutely must improve on offense - Bennett is the best ticket to get there.


The line up of Wall, Beal, Webster, Nene, and Okafor was the 5th most productive line up last year and was 13-3 when starting together. Our offense will improve greatly if we get consistent minutes from this group. I was high on Bennette but he should be drafted as a building block, not as a player to lean on for immediate offense.



That was still a weak offensive group. Other teams would concede midrange jumpers to Okafor/Nene, which they regularly took and bricked.

Every reasonable draft prospect available at 3 is tier 2. Since there are no tier 1 talents then we need to pick among the tier 2 players based on team needs. And there are only 2 players on the team that we should take into account when making the pick, Wall and Beal. Everyone else should be irrelevant.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#484 » by Dark Faze » Thu May 23, 2013 5:45 pm

Fischella wrote:Prince was a really good passer too, he pplay some PG in every team he has played.

They're similar, Turkoglu is a similar player too, heavier and worse on D, but you understand the point, Parsons could be a nice comp. but he's more explosive too.

Porter hanst that much room to grow, his shooting form is bad, he has to work on that even if it was efficient enough at NCAA, his handles needs work, he's not strong enough to drive inside, he's slow and unexplosive, that isnt going to change at all.

I just don't see it, he would be good, solid, but nothing spectacular, a good starter, role player.

He compares himself to Prince.

Tayshaun senior Junior stats at UK look really similar to Porter's.


It took Prince 3 years of college to accomplish close to what Porter did in 2. Their stats are similar but Porter drew 2 more fouls a game than Prince on average, and in comparing their first two seasons Porter was a near 50% fg shooter while Prince was .42%.

The stats just point to Porter being a more lethal scorer. I'm not saying that Porter isn't dissimilar to Prince, they ARE similar, but having significantly better free throw rate, shooting percentages and rebounding numbers in less time points to Porter being much better.

Free throw rate is so important when it comes to evaluating how easy a player can score at the next level. Fouls occur because players have trouble stopping you legitimately, and its an underrated statistic. I can't think of great scorers in the NBA that didn't have high FTA in college.Tayshauns average of around 3.5 free throw attempts per game show that he didn't put pressure on defenses.

That's part of the reason why I'm low on Oladipo--3.6 FTA as a junior with only 8 attempts per game. Teams are going to make a huge mistake taking him in the top 6 IMO.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#485 » by LyricalRico » Thu May 23, 2013 5:48 pm

Dark Faze wrote:It took Prince 3 years of college to accomplish close to what Porter did in 2. Their stats are similar but Porter drew 2 more fouls a game than Prince on average, and in comparing their first two seasons Porter was a near 50% fg shooter while Prince was .42%.

The stats just point to Porter being a more lethal scorer. I'm not saying that Porter isn't dissimilar to Prince, they ARE similar, but having significantly better free throw rate, shooting percentages and rebounding numbers in less time points to Porter being much better.


Agree with this. I also wonder if Porter may also be even better as a pro when he's not stuck in the Princeton system they run at Georgetown.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#486 » by Rafael122 » Thu May 23, 2013 5:54 pm

LyricalRico wrote:
Dark Faze wrote:It took Prince 3 years of college to accomplish close to what Porter did in 2. Their stats are similar but Porter drew 2 more fouls a game than Prince on average, and in comparing their first two seasons Porter was a near 50% fg shooter while Prince was .42%.

The stats just point to Porter being a more lethal scorer. I'm not saying that Porter isn't dissimilar to Prince, they ARE similar, but having significantly better free throw rate, shooting percentages and rebounding numbers in less time points to Porter being much better.


Agree with this. I also wonder if Porter may also be even better as a pro when he's not stuck in the Princeton system they run at Georgetown.


It's kinda like Ben Howland and UCLA, to a lesser extent though. JT 3 has churned out pretty good pros as of late.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#487 » by Liverbird » Thu May 23, 2013 5:54 pm

stevemcqueen1 wrote:
GhostsOfGil wrote:
nate33 wrote:If they really want Porter, I wonder if it would only take minor incentive to trade up from #3 to #1 to draft Noel. Something like Seraphin + #3 for #1. I'm not crazy about paying Noel 1st overall pick money to spend his first two seasons getting healthy and gaining weight, but in the long run, it could really pay off.


Make that Singleton or Booker and I'm in like Flynn.


Yeah I'd be fine with that deal. The best players will probably go 1 & 2, and right now that looks like Noel and McLemore. But to which teams? I think you could see both #1 and #2 get traded.

But Cleveland can't move down past three if they want Porter. Not unless they're sure we won't take him, and I see no way they can be sure of that.

A Washington-Cleveland swap makes sense for both teams because it ensures Cleveland can trade down and get the guy they want plus pick up a little something extra in the process. We get a potential franchise center for a relative bargain.

Right now I'm thinking Orlando takes McLemore or trades down for Burke. It makes sense for Charlotte to move up for McLemore. Same for Phoenix. And Burke can probably still be had at those spots:

1 - Washington - Noel
2 - Charlotte - McLemore
3 - Cleveland - Porter
4 - Orlando - Burke
5 - Phoenix - Oladipo

or

1 - Was - Noel
2 - Pho - McLemore
3 - Cle - Porter
4 - Cha - Dipo/Zeller
5 - Orl - Burke

Makes sense for everyone if the teams moving down don't get too greedy in what they ask for in return.


I think New Orleans would be in play here too. I could see them wanting either Burke or Porter. It's going to be an interesting draft night.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#488 » by GhostsOfGil » Thu May 23, 2013 5:55 pm

tontoz wrote:
GhostsOfGil wrote:
sfam wrote:Bennett will quickly make us lots better at rebounding so this will help. More to the point, while Washington is top 10 in DEF EFF, we are the absolute worst at OFF EFF. Porter may help us a little, but newsflash, folks, we need a lot of help there. The Wizards absolutely must improve on offense - Bennett is the best ticket to get there.


The line up of Wall, Beal, Webster, Nene, and Okafor was the 5th most productive line up last year and was 13-3 when starting together. Our offense will improve greatly if we get consistent minutes from this group. I was high on Bennette but he should be drafted as a building block, not as a player to lean on for immediate offense.



That was still a weak offensive group. Other teams would concede midrange jumpers to Okafor/Nene, which they regularly took and bricked.

Every reasonable draft prospect available at 3 is tier 2. Since there are no tier 1 talents then we need to pick among the tier 2 players based on team needs. And there are only 2 players on the team that we should take into account when making the pick, Wall and Beal. Everyone else should be irrelevant.


tontoz, what's your board look like. You have Bennette over Porter? I need to find the article Mike Lee posted. IIRC, the offense was fairly productive with that line up. I can live with Okafor/Nene bricking jumpers since they are the backbone of our defense. Especially with Beal Wall and Webster taking on the majority of the offense.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#489 » by Dark Faze » Thu May 23, 2013 5:57 pm

Yea, the Georgetown system and pace is probably in Porters favor as well, but I'm not going to pretend to have known much about Kentuckys offense back when Prince was playing, so it wouldn't be fair.

I just love the thought of our team man. We'd be a tough cover on offense. Walls penetration and passing, Beals off ball movement, and Porters do it all work and one dribble pull-up...Nene on the elbow and Okafor down low.

The reason I use George as an example is because George's allstar stats this year were 17.4, 4.1, and 7.6 RPG on 41% fg shooting. I don't think Porter can get that many assists and the RPG doesn't seem sustainable, but why can't Porter average 17, 2, and 6 on 45+ percent field goal shooting?
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#490 » by Liverbird » Thu May 23, 2013 5:58 pm

tontoz wrote:That was still a weak offensive group. Other teams would concede midrange jumpers to Okafor/Nene, which they regularly took and bricked.


That's why I think Porter is a great fit. His mid-range game would compliment the team so well.

Also - as Porter's body matures, he'd be able to play the S4 in small ball scenarios pretty effectively.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#491 » by tontoz » Thu May 23, 2013 6:01 pm

GhostsOfGil wrote:tontoz, what's your board look like. You have Bennette over Porter? I need to find the article Mike Lee posted. IIRC, the offense was fairly productive with that line up. I can live with Okafor/Nene bricking jumpers since they are the backbone of our defense. Especially with Beal Wall and Webster taking on the majority of the offense.



I think Porter is the obvious choice assuming the Cavs don't take him.

In the unlikely event that he is taken before 3 i think Bennett is a viable, but obviously risky, option that shouldn't be dismissed.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#492 » by Dark Faze » Thu May 23, 2013 6:05 pm

In a scenario where the Cavs take Porter #1, Orlando takes Nerlens #2, I think we stand to get better value by trading the pick to the teams that are hungry for McLemore or Burke. I don't think you even entertain drafting Bennett.

McLemore would have serious trade value. Specifically in regards to say the Magic, imagine what they would give up to land both Noel and McLemore or Burke in the same draft? I think they'd give us Vucevic AND Afflalo.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#493 » by GhostsOfGil » Thu May 23, 2013 6:06 pm

Dark Faze wrote:In a scenario where the Cavs take Porter #1, Orlando takes Nerlens #2, I think we stand to get better value by trading the pick to the teams that are hungry for McLemore or Burke. I don't think you even entertain drafting Bennett.

McLemore would have serious trade value. Specifically in regards to say the Magic, imagine what they would give up to land both Noel and McLemore or Burke in the same draft? I think they'd give us Vucevic AND Afflalo.


If that happens I think EG takes Len.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#494 » by SizzlinSimms » Thu May 23, 2013 6:09 pm

Liverbird wrote:
stevemcqueen1 wrote:
GhostsOfGil wrote:
Make that Singleton or Booker and I'm in like Flynn.


Yeah I'd be fine with that deal. The best players will probably go 1 & 2, and right now that looks like Noel and McLemore. But to which teams? I think you could see both #1 and #2 get traded.

But Cleveland can't move down past three if they want Porter. Not unless they're sure we won't take him, and I see no way they can be sure of that.

A Washington-Cleveland swap makes sense for both teams because it ensures Cleveland can trade down and get the guy they want plus pick up a little something extra in the process. We get a potential franchise center for a relative bargain.

Right now I'm thinking Orlando takes McLemore or trades down for Burke. It makes sense for Charlotte to move up for McLemore. Same for Phoenix. And Burke can probably still be had at those spots:

1 - Washington - Noel
2 - Charlotte - McLemore
3 - Cleveland - Porter
4 - Orlando - Burke
5 - Phoenix - Oladipo

or

1 - Was - Noel
2 - Pho - McLemore
3 - Cle - Porter
4 - Cha - Dipo/Zeller
5 - Orl - Burke

Makes sense for everyone if the teams moving down don't get too greedy in what they ask for in return.


I think New Orleans would be in play here too. I could see them wanting either Burke or Porter. It's going to be an interesting draft night.

CLE is not trading down to receive Seraphin, Booker, or Singleton. That's absurd. If they ever contemplated that for more than 15 seconds that GM should be shot. CLE has the upper hand, and really has zero incentive to trade their pick unless receiving a veteran who can contribute greatly, which neither of those Wizards players are. The Wizards would have to over offer for a switch to happen plus the Wizards don't have anything that CLE would want. Unless Beal was added but that would be awful for the Wizards, and they wouldn't do it anyways.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#495 » by Zonkerbl » Thu May 23, 2013 6:10 pm

Who would you rather have and why:

Choice 1:
Oladipo vs. Porter

Choice 2:
Oladipo vs. Bennett

Choice 3:
Porter vs. Bennett

Choice 4:
Zoeller vs. Porter

Choice 5:
Zoeller vs. Bennett

Choice 6:
Oladipo vs. Zoeller

I'll leave out Noel (no chance) and McLemore (we can always choose Oladipo).
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#496 » by fishercob » Thu May 23, 2013 6:22 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:Who would you rather have and why:

Choice 1:
Oladipo vs. Porter


Porter. Oladipo might be the better player, but it's close enough that I look at who else we have on the roster.

Choice 2:
Oladipo vs. Bennett


Oladipo. Don't trust Bennett's willingness or ability to be a great two-way player.

Choice 3:
Porter vs. Bennett


Porter.

Choice 4:
Zoeller vs. Porter


Porter. I'm I'm building around a big man, I have to feel really good about his defensive potential. I don't think Zeller can anchor a great NBA defense, but I could be wrong. I see Zeller as more of an NBA "4" and we haven''t seen that he's able to excel there.

Choice 5:
Zoeller vs. Bennett


Zeller. Bigger, more productive.

Choice 6:
Oladipo vs. Zoeller


Oladipo.

I'll leave out Noel (no chance) and McLemore (we can always choose Oladipo).[/quote]

I'm not not convinced Noel won't be there at 3. Lots can change in the next month-plus.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#497 » by tontoz » Thu May 23, 2013 6:23 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:Who would you rather have and why:

Choice 1:
Oladipo vs. Porter

Choice 2:
Oladipo vs. Bennett

Choice 3:
Porter vs. Bennett

Choice 4:
Zoeller vs. Porter

Choice 5:
Zoeller vs. Bennett

Choice 6:
Oladipo vs. Zoeller

I'll leave out Noel (no chance) and McLemore (we can always choose Oladipo).




1. Porter because of Beal

2. Bennett " "

3. Porter because he is a better prospect

4. Porter " "

5. Bennett although it is close. More upside potential. It isn't clear that Zeller has a face up game.

6. Zeller because of Beal.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#498 » by nate33 » Thu May 23, 2013 6:23 pm

SizzlinSimms wrote:CLE is not trading down to receive Seraphin, Booker, or Singleton. That's absurd. If they ever contemplated that for more than 15 seconds that GM should be shot. CLE has the upper hand, and really has zero incentive to trade their pick unless receiving a veteran who can contribute greatly, which neither of those Wizards players are. The Wizards would have to over offer for a switch to happen plus the Wizards don't have anything that CLE would want. Unless Beal was added but that would be awful for the Wizards, and they wouldn't do it anyways.

It's not absurd. If Cleveland really wants a player that can contribute immediately at a position of need, then Porter is their guy. Rather than draft him at #1 and pay him an extra $1M a year (along with the pressure that comes with being a #1 overall pick), they trade with the Wizards and get him at #3.

Don't get caught up in the hype of the #1 pick. Yes, in general, it takes more than minor role players to move up from #3 to #1, but not necessarily in this draft. Look at this trade as purely a swap of Noel for Porter. Ignoring draft positioning, those two players have fairly similar value, with Porter being more valuable in a win-now scenario, and Noel having more value several years down the road.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#499 » by GhostsOfGil » Thu May 23, 2013 6:28 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:Who would you rather have and why:


Choice 1:
Oladipo vs. Porter
With Oladipo, thats a lot of money to invest into 2 positions. Prorter seems like the better fit with our current team.

Choice 2:
Oladipo vs. Bennett
Bennett's upside is intriguing and potentially gives us a building-block upfront.

Choice 3:
Porter vs. Bennett
Safe pick. Im warming up to the idea of Wall Beal Porter unit. Doesn't compromise our already strong defensive mindset.

Choice 4:
Zoeller vs. Porter
3rd pick for Zeller seems like to much of a risk. Looks like porter will have a more immediate impact.

Choice 5:
Zoeller vs. Bennett
Bennetts offensive upside seems higher.

Choice 6:
Oladipo vs. Zoeller
I just don't think Oladipo can thrive behind Wall/Beal and I have yet to read any compelling arguments that he can play the 3.

If somehow Noel slips to us, I would take him over everyone on this list.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#500 » by stevemcqueen1 » Thu May 23, 2013 6:46 pm

My order is Porter > Zeller > Dipo > Bennett.

Dipo gets devalued because of his position, Bennett gets devalued because I think our coach would let him rot on the bench.

If Dwight Howard is serious about leaving LA, and he let LA know that's what he wanted to do, then I wonder if we could do a S&T for him?

I would offer Okafor or Nene, the third pick, trade ballast, and our 2014 first for him.

If you're LA, you have to listen to that offer. S&Ts usually suck because your leverage is so low. Getting the third pick and a second 2014 pick could help jump start a rebuild plus you either get a quality big in Nene or a big who is expiring. It's more than LA gave up themselves in acquiring Dwight...

I think Dwight could win a championship with Beal and Wall. If we keep Nene, that's a nice PF to pair with him. We like playing a slow pace, shooting threes, and we're defensively focused. We're probably not his best fit out there, but we're better than Dallas or Golden State probably. Dallas doesn't have comparable young talent and GS is a running team that doesn't play defense. So is Houston for that matter.

And more importantly, can Houston, Dallas, or GS beat our offer in a S&T? The mere fact that they're all in the Western Conference hurts them compared to us. A S&T to a team with a solid core is the best outcome for Dwight, so he can have his cake and eat it too.

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