Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V

[stevemcqueen1]

I wouldn't draft Bennett with the 8th pick, that's how little I trust his "upside". A tweener PF as a top 3 pick just seems like a disaster waiting to happen. After tweeners like Derrick Williams & Michael Beasley, who put up monster seasons but have been such disappointments, I find it really hard to give Bennett any real consideration when there's additional questions about his maturity and overall b-ball IQ.

I don't think DWill is a great comparison for Bennett. I think Bennett is better. This class isn't as bad as 2011 was, which led to DWill being overdrafted as the best NCAA player that season. Bennett isn't as soft as DWill, has better perimeter skills like ball handling and shooting, and he's a better rebounder.

DWill put up gaudy percentages with few attempts but I never really believed he was a reliable shooter from watching him. I think he's a streak shooter.

Bennett will make the open ones. He has the confidence of a good shooter and he's got a pretty jumper.

Also, the biggest thing holding DWill back was a poor Minny construction IMO. Taking him when they had a log jam of forwards and a first team all NBA PF in front of him was a mistake. If DWill had been drafted by us, I think his career would have gone a lot better because he would have gotten opportunities. I think DWill would still have a chance to turn his career around if not for Kevin Love's impending return.

I think Bennett is something of a moderately wealthy man's Paul Millsap, and when he's rolling, he's a poor man's Larry Johnson. But I also think that LJ didn't develop that three pointer until later in his career after his back started hurting and he couldn't live inside the paint any more, so Bennett's perimeter skills are ahead of where LJ's were at UNLV.

I do think Bennett's upside is pretty high. If you didn't watch him in the context of the season, then you won't understand how much of a star he was. But it was pretty much universally stated Bennett was the best inside-outside scorer in CBB last year.

There is definitely a place for face up forwards like Bennett in the NBA. I don't have questions about his offensive skill set or his physical profile, although I think his injuries the past three years are worthy of concern. All of my questions are about his maturity and his fit with the Washington Wizards. Does the braintrust ( ) know how to handle him? He's not going to be a low maintenance plug and play guy. He's going to have to be well-tended and groomed with patience and a lot of effort. Witt can't give up on him.

[rockymac52]

Don't draft a stretch 4 in the lottery. Dirk Nowitzki is the only counter example in the last 20 years. The rest have been guys like Troy Murphy (14th), Channing Frye (8th), Tim Thomas (7th), Andrea Bargnani (1st), Vladimir Radmanovic (12th), Keith Van Horn (2nd), Eddie Griffn (7th), Charlie Villanueva (7th), and Nikoloz Tskitishvili (5th).

If you want a stretch 4, trade for one; pick one up in free agency; or draft a big with a nice shooting stroke, and work with him on his shot.

I theorize, without any non-anecdotal evidence, that you see so much disappointment in stretch 4s because NBA caliber big men should be able to dominate in the interior at lower levels. Bigs with a developed perimeter game in the NCAAs and the lesser euro-leagues are actually revealing their ineffective interior games, also correlated with ineffective interior defense.

If we are looking for a stretch 4, let's just suck it up and trade for Bargnani. He was terrible last year, but solid in limited games in 2011-2012 and 2010-2011. He's 27 years old, and on a big, but short contract. Bargnani for Ariza and Vesely works.

It's posts like these that really piss me off. I'm not trying to be a dick, but it's clear that you have never watched Anthony Bennett play basketball.

He scores most of his points in the paint, posting up. He CAN shoot from 3, and he does occasionally, although not that often in the grand scheme of things. He is not the type of "stretch 4" that you are thinking about, similar to the players you mentioned. Bennett is inside first, but can also hurt you from deep if you sag off on him. Those other stretch 4s camp out along the perimeter waiting to somebody to kick it out to them so they can pick and pop. Bennett is not that one dimensional. Seriously man, even watching a 3 minute highlight reel on youtube would have made it obvious that Bennett mostly scores in the post.

[stevemcqueen1]

Why he got the label of a midrange shooter, I will never know.

Mid range is at least 15 feet to the 3 pt line. He's a good mid range shooter because he can absolutely knock down those elbow jumpers and go to work from that high post.

[tontoz]

If we assume that Porter and Bennett end up roughly equal as players i believe that would make Bennett the better pick. Having a big who can roll to the basket strong AND shoot from the perimeter would make Wall so much more effective.

However that is not an easy assumption to make, especially since we don't know Bennett's standing reach. The wingspan doesn't impress me. I remember Shelden having a huge wingspan but only a 8'8" standing reach which really killed his value.

Pending specific measurements i would prefer Porter but would be ok with Bennett. The only other guy i would consider would be Zeller IF he shows range on his shot and the ability to beat guys off the dribble. His combine numbers and overall productivity shouldn't be ignored.

[fugop]

It's posts like these that really piss me off. I'm not trying to be a dick, but it's clear that you have never watched Anthony Bennett play basketball.

He scores most of his points in the paint, posting up. He CAN shoot from 3, and he does occasionally, although not that often in the grand scheme of things. He is not the type of "stretch 4" that you are thinking about, similar to the players you mentioned. Bennett is inside first, but can also hurt you from deep if you sag off on him. Those other stretch 4s camp out along the perimeter waiting to somebody to kick it out to them so they can pick and pop. Bennett is not that one dimensional. Seriously man, even watching a 3 minute highlight reel on youtube would have made it obvious that Bennett mostly scores in the post.

You're an idiot. I didn't mention Bennett in my post.

[hands11]

You have the weigh the risk vs. reward. What's the reward for Bennett? What is really his upside? Is it the next Larry Johnson? Or is it more like the next Rodney Rogers?

I think folks see a guy that's built like a tank and shoots 3 pts and they get excited. But some of things he says and the way he plays at times really bothers me. He's not just a bad defender, he plays like he gives zero f*ck about playing D. He freely admits he's a perimeter player although he's probably at least 260 ibs. There have been questions about how good a shape he's in. He's just not serious yet. I don't see how drafting him 3rd, giving him $5 mil a year and calling him part of the next big 3 is going to help him mature into a complete basketball player.

For me there's only 3 players to consider, Noel, Porter or Oladipo. Outside of that, a trade for a youngish big.

Trading down would be an option, but only if were really getting back someone good. Trading down for the likes of Jared Dudley is a no go for me, because IMO that would likely take us out of the running for one of the top 3 propsects.

I'm with you. I like Bennett's upside but guys like that always come here and bust.

Well again, the last 6'7" PF coming highly rated out of UNLV did pretty well. As the game has evolved, smaller, faster players up front seem to be the direction things are moving towards. Chris Bosh as a center looks more valuable than Roy Hibbert, for example. A few years back, Bosh would never have played center - now this is becoming the norm. If he has the right work ethic, a guy with Bennett's skillset could really make an impact in today's NBA.

My view is by the time its clear the direction has changed, its just about to change again. I remember reading a piece a while back about how there were no PG in the league anymore and college teams didn't grow them anymore. Then we went on a PG run. In part because the roles changed and opened things up.

For me, I can't help but watch both Burke and CJM and instantly see how there games will translate.

I see the best compliment for Wall and Beal to be more depth at guard to back them up and more rebound and toughness in the paint.

[hands11]

With our coach and history of player development, particularly raw bigs, you can't take Bennett over Porter. You need to pick the guy who already knows how to play. Same as we did with Beal.

I've seen this argument floated a few times in this thread and I disagree with it completely. This isn't two years ago. We have expunged all the knuckleheads and lazy players from the roster already. This team now has a great attitude and support system in place. Guys come here, work hard, and buy into the team.

What good is it to add veterans with work ethic if you don't use them to teach young players how to be pros? This is exactly the reason why we added Nene, Okafor and Ariza in the first place. This is why San Antonio can take retreads like Stephen Jackson and Boris Diaw and get them to buy in.

I think we are the perfect team to help mold a guy like Anthony Bennett.

As someone who has posted the same about how the team has changed, I'm still somewhat concerned in adding another young player that needs to get converted while we are still working on Kevins. Vesely and Singleton.

This is why I proposed a reboot in where they moved on from Kevins and a least Singleton. I would feel more conformable working on Bennett if it was just him and Ves as the projects.

I know some will say don't worry about those player but it is a zero sum game. If you have that many projects you have that many less player you can count on. I would rather those slots be filled by player that already got it.

[montestewart]

I would say rockymac52 overreacted a bit, but I don't recall any strong push to draft a stretch 4 in the lottery, so who were you talking about, fugop? I only remember people hoping to get one with the second round pick.

[closg00]

With our coach and history of player development, particularly raw bigs, you can't take Bennett over Porter. You need to pick the guy who already knows how to play. Same as we did with Beal.

I've seen this argument floated a few times in this thread and I disagree with it completely. This isn't two years ago. We have expunged all the knuckleheads and lazy players from the roster already. This team now has a great attitude and support system in place. Guys come here, work hard, and buy into the team.

What good is it to add veterans with work ethic if you don't use them to teach young players how to be pros? This is exactly the reason why we added Nene, Okafor and Ariza in the first place. This is why San Antonio can take retreads like Stephen Jackson and Boris Diaw and get them to buy in.

I think we are the perfect team to help mold a guy like Anthony Bennett.

I think were kidding ourselves if we think the player development issues are solved simply because we've gotten rid of the knuckleheads.

Both Vesely & Seraphin had two of the biggest regressions from '11-'12 to last season I've seen from recent draft picks. Were talking falling off the cliff type performances. That should be concerning IMO. I'm not ready to see THIS front office take a chance on drafting a player with questionable motivations just yet.

THIS!!!

[hands11]

Regarding backup PG options, I don't want a Wolters or Pierre Jackson. Rather than getting one of these marginal 2nd round guys, we have to find a way to get at least a Larkin-level player. We saw what happened with no Wall last season. We need a backup who is at least league average

for the record and in defense of AJ Price, he wasn't nearly as responsible
for 4-28 as some here would imply. Remember he was hurt to and we
had serious dregs playing the 1 and Beal and Ariza were out too.

AJ Price is an adequate backup and would not be a bad choice to bring back.

Maybe Satoransky comes over, maybe not. Maybe he turns out to be decent,
maybe not. But AJ is an adequate backup PG.

I disagree. AJ was decent at times, but I feel like he flat out sucked at others. He just doesn't cut it if Wall goes out for any length of time. I like him over Temple - I think he makes a nice 5th guard to sub in for injuries. But I would really like an upgrade at PG to back up Wall.

He was better when they have enough player for him to do what he does, play more of a scoring PG or really a small SG. He was pretty bad as a PG.

Price is serviceable but they can do better.

[hands11]

Don't draft a stretch 4 in the lottery. Dirk Nowitzki is the only counter example in the last 20 years. The rest have been guys like Troy Murphy (14th), Channing Frye (8th), Tim Thomas (7th), Andrea Bargnani (1st), Vladimir Radmanovic (12th), Keith Van Horn (2nd), Eddie Griffn (7th), Charlie Villanueva (7th), and Nikoloz Tskitishvili (5th).

If you want a stretch 4, trade for one; pick one up in free agency; or draft a big with a nice shooting stroke, and work with him on his shot.

I theorize, without any non-anecdotal evidence, that you see so much disappointment in stretch 4s because NBA caliber big men should be able to dominate in the interior at lower levels. Bigs with a developed perimeter game in the NCAAs and the lesser euro-leagues are actually revealing their ineffective interior games, also correlated with ineffective interior defense.

If we are looking for a stretch 4, let's just suck it up and trade for Bargnani. He was terrible last year, but solid in limited games in 2011-2012 and 2010-2011. He's 27 years old, and on a big, but short contract. Bargnani for Ariza and Vesely works.

Likely true about college players who are tall stretch fours. Same line of thinking gets you really athletic players with poor handles while you have less athletic PGs with great handles. At that age, its not all that likely you get both.

Hell, look at Wall, he was so used to running by people he didn't even know how to do a change of pace move and he didn't work on his jumper. Its took almost 3 years for him to finally add those things.

Meanwhile you have players like Burke and CJM who are athletic but not super athletic who have those skills already. Good handles and a good shot are the great equalizers of less athleticism. Its a game of separation and angles.

Bennett is the toughest call of all of them I think. Big red flag on defense. But maybe its fixable. A little short, but long and strong but injured and didn't measure. That makes for a tough call.

[WizarDynasty]

I've seen this argument floated a few times in this thread and I disagree with it completely. This isn't two years ago. We have expunged all the knuckleheads and lazy players from the roster already. This team now has a great attitude and support system in place. Guys come here, work hard, and buy into the team.

What good is it to add veterans with work ethic if you don't use them to teach young players how to be pros? This is exactly the reason why we added Nene, Okafor and Ariza in the first place. This is why San Antonio can take retreads like Stephen Jackson and Boris Diaw and get them to buy in.

I think we are the perfect team to help mold a guy like Anthony Bennett.

I think were kidding ourselves if we think the player development issues are solved simply because we've gotten rid of the knuckleheads.

Both Vesely & Seraphin had two of the biggest regressions from '11-'12 to last season I've seen from recent draft picks. Were talking falling off the cliff type performances. That should be concerning IMO. I'm not ready to see THIS front office take a chance on drafting a player with questionable motivations just yet.

THIS!!!

always ask yourself, what physical tools did the player come into the league that were elite in respect to his position and was he above average at the basic stat categories for his position before he came into the league?
Ask that same question for every prospect including VEsely and Seraphin. If they were above average in the stat category for the basic stat categories for their position--not the advanced stat categories---remember each position has different basic stat categories...if they were above average in those categores--and they had elite physical traits for their position then it is completely the coaches fault for their regression. If they weren't above average in the basic stat categories of their position in whatever league they played in, then it's the GM's fault for bringing them here in the first place.

bigmen basics--offensive defensive rebounding, protecting the rim against other powerful bigmen and shotblocking without fouling, high field gold percentage close to rim. Luxury are bigs who can do stuff outside of the basics.
guards basics---whatever bigmen don't excel in guards and to a lesser extent forwards should excel in.
Bigs traditionally can't advance the ball against defensive pressure, guards whould excel....forward should always be a mix of a bigman and guard. forwards should have a skill set one notch below and one notch above their playing position. they should be able to guard one notch above and one notch below.

so the point is that if you looked at serahin and vesely, vesely came in as a small forward but can he guard shooting guards. Did he have any shooting guard skills. that should have alarmed you that grunfeld was lost because Vesely surely had no powerforward skills. nayone looking at him see that he didn't have elite physical traits associated with a shooting guard or associated with a powerforward--such as hand coordination, foot coordation, or lower body strength.
Seraphin is suppose to be a powerforward but he has absolutely zero small forward skills and can't guard a small forward for even a short period of time. He is in essence an undersized center because the lowest position he can guard is a powerforward.

[CLIN]

It's posts like these that really piss me off. I'm not trying to be a dick, but it's clear that you have never watched Anthony Bennett play basketball.

He scores most of his points in the paint, posting up. He CAN shoot from 3, and he does occasionally, although not that often in the grand scheme of things. He is not the type of "stretch 4" that you are thinking about, similar to the players you mentioned. Bennett is inside first, but can also hurt you from deep if you sag off on him. Those other stretch 4s camp out along the perimeter waiting to somebody to kick it out to them so they can pick and pop. Bennett is not that one dimensional. Seriously man, even watching a 3 minute highlight reel on youtube would have made it obvious that Bennett mostly scores in the post.

You're an idiot. I didn't mention Bennett in my post.

You made it seem like you were referring to bennet, since that's who everyone is talking about, and he's the only big in the lottery who could really be considered one. Are you actually referring to a different player or are you just trying to get cute with it by saying you didn't mention his name but were actually talking about bennet?

because the bargnani over bennett analysis would be one of the stupidest things i've read on this whole forum if true.

EDIT: also on a seperate note, the don't draft stretch 4s thing is similar to don't draft euros. kinda lame

[nate33]

With our coach and history of player development, particularly raw bigs, you can't take Bennett over Porter. You need to pick the guy who already knows how to play. Same as we did with Beal.

I've seen this argument floated a few times in this thread and I disagree with it completely. This isn't two years ago. We have expunged all the knuckleheads and lazy players from the roster already. This team now has a great attitude and support system in place. Guys come here, work hard, and buy into the team.

What good is it to add veterans with work ethic if you don't use them to teach young players how to be pros? This is exactly the reason why we added Nene, Okafor and Ariza in the first place. This is why San Antonio can take retreads like Stephen Jackson and Boris Diaw and get them to buy in.

I think we are the perfect team to help mold a guy like Anthony Bennett.

As someone who has posted the same about how the team has changed, I'm still somewhat concerned in adding another young player that needs to get converted while we are still working on Kevins. Vesely and Singleton.

This is why I proposed a reboot in where they moved on from Kevins and a least Singleton. I would feel more conformable working on Bennett if it was just him and Ves as the projects.

I know some will say don't worry about those player but it is a zero sum game. If you have that many projects you have that many less player you can count on. I would rather those slots be filled by player that already got it.

Fair point. If we do draft Bennett, it would definitely make sense to trade Vesely. Singleton could probably be moved as well (though if he remains on the end of the bench as insurance in case of injury, I wouldn't really object). Booker is basically a veteran so he can stick around. Just keep Seraphin and Bennett as the two "projects" on the team, and surround them with vets like Okafor, Nene, Booker, Ariza and Webster.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

If we do draft Bennett, I hope we look at keeping both Ariza and Webster long term. Ariza is not going to command the same salary in his next contract, and hopefully we can get Webster for less than MLE. I think we have a good rotation at SF, and hope we can keep that and then look at other holes to fill.

For those Porter supporters, how much better do you see the Wizards' SF spot production being with Porter over Ariza/Webster?

For next season or for the next 5 seasons?

The next 5 seasons. I don't think Webster's production was a fluke, and Ariza (27) should be solid for the next 5 years, assuming we can pen him to a reasonable deal.

sfam, I keep seeing this argument about how solid we are at SF with Webster and Ariza.

1st of all Webster is a free agent. Yes he's said he wants to come back, and the Wizards I'm sure want him back. But once a guy hits free agency, you never know what will happen.

Secondly, Ariza is only here this season because he wants to get paid. You think if all things are equal money-wise he's gonna stay here?? Why did they try to trade him to the Clippers? Why did they try to trade for Rudy Gay?

I don't think SF is as secure as you make it out to be.

[Dat2U]

Paul Millsap has a standing reach of 8'9.5" which is slightly below average. For perspective, there's only 3 PFs 8'9 or below that register even a blip: Blake Griffin (8'9"), Thad Young (8'8") & Carl Landry (8'6.5").

If Bennett is in the 8'10 range then I'd have to reconsider. If he's measuring out like Blake Griffin, then he's late lottery at best IMO.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

This thread is great! Man since the lottery this has turned into a strong back and forth between Porter and Bennett.

And watch in the end Ernie's gonna pick Len.


It is a tough debate. There are a lot of reasons to like both players. And Len too actually. I have been on the Len and Bennett bandwagons at points this year. Bennett was a beast in the games I saw him. Defensively he guards a lot of space with his long arms, he blocks shots, and he rebounds. Offensively he is explosive. He can drive and throw it down with violence. And his 3 pointer is pure.

My concern stems from the list of high potential no reward players we have cycled through for years now. I mean McGee, Young, Blatche, Pecherov, Vesely, Kwame Brown. Then add in draft trades like the #5 for Miller/Foye. The last thing we need is another bust. Yes Porter isn't MJ, or even Chris Webber. But drafting another McGee would end any chance this team has of becoming something. I know Porter will be a good defender and give high effort off the bat. And from there he will move upward. Bennett I don't know what he'll do. He could be devastatingly good. His asthma could get worse, he could put on weight (not in a good way), get out of shape, become injury prone, or just turn out to be not very good. I just don't know. I wish he had played in the ACC or Big East, or Big 10, or SEC. I would of liked to have seen him challenged more consistently against top level competition.

I just don't feel good about taking that kind of chance at this point in the team's development. Porter just seems like such a good fit. The talk about not adding youth and getting a vet talk by Wall after the season. A guy like Porter is like Beal last season as far as fit and a guy who will come in with a mature mind set. In fact Beal said he's the most NBA ready player in the draft. Porter is gonna be really good. He's gonna be like the Tim Duncan of SFs.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Who knows who Ernie is thinking when he says it's a 3 player draft. It could be any of Porter, Bennett, Len, Zeller, Oladipo, Adams, Burke, Saric. With Ernie there's no telling.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

New DX mock has Wizards getting Murphy at 54!

Of course Ernie already said he doesn't want that pick.

[stevemcqueen1]

Well, I feel confident predicting Otto Porter will never blow by LeBron James and posterize Chris Anderson like Paul George just did. That was vicious.