Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V

[SUPERBALLMAN]

With Porter I see a floor of Battier and a ceiling of Pippen.

What's the floor and ceiling for Bennett? Beasley and Barkley?

[hands11]

I found this for those interested. I know some where asking about the Bench Press. Enjoy.

I was a little surprised to see CJM and Withey listed top 3 for their positions.

Top 3 Positional 3/4 Court Sprint

PG Shane Larkin (3.08), Phil Pressey (3.13), Trey Burke and Peyton Siva (3.16)

SG Kentavious Caldwell Pope (3.12), Vander Blue (3.14), 4 tied at 3.25 (Victor Oladipo, Tim Hardaway Jr, Tony Snell, Glen Rice Jr.)

SF Solomon Hill (3.19), Carrick Felix (3.25), Reggie Bullock (3.31)

PF CJ Leslie (3.1), Cody Zeller (3.15), Mason Plumlee (3.29)

C Dewayne Dedmon and Steven Adams (3.4), Mike Muscala and Kenny Kadji (3.44)


Top 3 Positional Bench Press

PG Isaiah Canaan (16), Peyton Siva (15),CJ McCollum (13)

SG Tim Hardaway Jr (16), Victor Oladipo and Brandon Paul (15)

SF Carrick Felix (15), Solomon Hill (14), Adonis Thomas (13)

PF Trevor Mbakwe (21), Cody Zeller (17), Mason Plumlee (14)

C Steven Adams (16), Colton Iverson (12), Jeff Withey (10)

[sfam]

For next season or for the next 5 seasons?

The next 5 seasons. I don't think Webster's production was a fluke, and Ariza (27) should be solid for the next 5 years, assuming we can pen him to a reasonable deal.

sfam, I keep seeing this argument about how solid we are at SF with Webster and Ariza.

1st of all Webster is a free agent. Yes he's said he wants to come back, and the Wizards I'm sure want him back. But once a guy hits free agency, you never know what will happen.

Secondly, Ariza is only here this season because he wants to get paid. You think if all things are equal money-wise he's gonna stay here?? Why did they try to trade him to the Clippers? Why did they try to trade for Rudy Gay?

I don't think SF is as secure as you make it out to be.

I agree both could walk, but Webster has never played better than he has here. Ariza is playing better than he has anywhere since LA. Both can we what Wall does to their game. Similar to how Jack wants to stay in GS, I think it will be easy to keep Webster here. Ariza is definitely more of an unknown, just not this year. PF on the other hand is problematic this year.

[AFM]

Doesn't surprise me at all, hands. CJ Leslie is one of the best athletes I've ever seen.

[sfam]

Well, I feel confident predicting Otto Porter will never blow by LeBron James and posterize Chris Anderson like Paul George just did. That was vicious.

Agreed, that was great. I'd love to see Bennett do that to Lebron and Birdman.

[Deeptu McPullup]

First off, I'd like to debunk the myth of Otto Porter being a great midrange shooter. I think that is a lazy and stereotypical assumption that clearly many of you have made.

*assorted stats backing this up*

I was actually more saying that he was going to operate in the middle of the floor elbow/key areas with a lot of motion. My expectation would be that Otto would have a fairly high ratio of shots in the 3-9 foot area and the team in general would be trying to have an increase in assisted field goals at the rim, both through and too Otto. I realize that on the matrix of small forwards, he is more oriented towards the interior than most, which could create good opportunities.

That's why I'm saying he would probably enhance the need for a stretch 4 as things could get very tight down low otherwise. If he were going to take a bunch of 18 footers, it would be inefficient, but it wouldn't create those sorts of spacing issues. It seems that to use Wall, Otto and Nene (or another post player), you'd get those assisted field goals at the rim a lot more frequently if your power forward were behind the 3-point stripe.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Damn my electricity went out!

[sfam]

With Porter I see a floor of Battier and a ceiling of Pippen.

What's the floor and ceiling for Bennett? Beasley and Barkley?

I don't see Porter's ceiling as anywhere near Pippen. He just doesn't have that level of athleticism. For Bennet I'd out his upside close to LJ, not Barkley. Bennett and LJ really do have some similarities.

[sfam]

It's posts like these that really piss me off. I'm not trying to be a dick, but it's clear that you have never watched Anthony Bennett play basketball.

He scores most of his points in the paint, posting up. He CAN shoot from 3, and he does occasionally, although not that often in the grand scheme of things. He is not the type of "stretch 4" that you are thinking about, similar to the players you mentioned. Bennett is inside first, but can also hurt you from deep if you sag off on him. Those other stretch 4s camp out along the perimeter waiting to somebody to kick it out to them so they can pick and pop. Bennett is not that one dimensional. Seriously man, even watching a 3 minute highlight reel on youtube would have made it obvious that Bennett mostly scores in the post.

You're an idiot. I didn't mention Bennett in my post.

You made it seem like you were referring to bennet, since that's who everyone is talking about, and he's the only big in the lottery who could really be considered one. Are you actually referring to a different player or are you just trying to get cute with it by saying you didn't mention his name but were actually talking about bennet?

because the bargnani over bennett analysis would be one of the stupidest things i've read on this whole forum if true.

EDIT: also on a seperate note, the don't draft stretch 4s thing is similar to don't draft euros. kinda lame

I must be an idiot as well, as I certainly thought fugop was referring to Bennett.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

I see similarities in their point forward skills, defensive skills, passing, and range. Offensively too. And I can see Porter developing a Pippen type build in a couple years, when he's like 24.

[sfam]

I'm with you. I like Bennett's upside but guys like that always come here and bust.

Well again, the last 6'7" PF coming highly rated out of UNLV did pretty well. As the game has evolved, smaller, faster players up front seem to be the direction things are moving towards. Chris Bosh as a center looks more valuable than Roy Hibbert, for example. A few years back, Bosh would never have played center - now this is becoming the norm. If he has the right work ethic, a guy with Bennett's skillset could really make an impact in today's NBA.

My view is by the time its clear the direction has changed, its just about to change again. I remember reading a piece a while back about how there were no PG in the league anymore and college teams didn't grow them anymore. Then we went on a PG run. In part because the roles changed and opened things up.

For me, I can't help but watch both Burke and CJM and instantly see how there games will translate.

I see the best compliment for Wall and Beal to be more depth at guard to back them up and more rebound and toughness in the paint.

Hands, what change are you seeing coming? Or are you just saying that whatever change is coming, it won't last past 3-4 years?

[sfam]

I see similarities in their point forward skills, defensive skills, passing, and range. Offensively too. And I can see Porter developing a Pippen type build in a couple years, when he's like 24.

I might agree with you on the point forward thing. Porter probably really helps our offense in that sense if Wall goes out. Porter is also great at D, and may end up on an all defensive team some day. I just don't see Porter blowing by people or being the absolute demon in the open court the way Pippen was.

[sfam]

According to the Orlando board, they would absolutely take Noel at #2 if the Cavs take Porter. So to get Noel, the Cavs would have to draft him and arrange a trade with us. It looks like it really might be a possibility. The tone on the Cavs board is that they really don't want to deal with a project like Noah and they love Porter.

Noel has real risks as well. His upside may be terrific, but its definitely going to take a few years to get there. I just don't see us giving up that much to move up. We're better off taking the BPA at #3 and then try to package the seconds to move up to take a potential role player, either stretch 4 or combo guard.

If it doesn't cost that much, why not trade up for Noel? Biggest benefit we could get long term is a franchise center who is a defensive anchor. It'd be worth it.

If Noel didn't have the injury concerns, and wasn't barely in triple digits in weight, I might be more psyched for this idea. That said, in thinking about it, I agree, if you rate Noel as a franchise center, it would make sense to see if you can get him if the price isn't too high.

[stevemcqueen1]

Good Lord CJ McCollum is strong.

Adams too, the guy is an ogre.

And Zeller is a beast. Fast, strong, tall, and he can jump.

[nuposse04]

Watching games like this game 2 of the ECF, makes me wonder if the bigman is about to make a return in the NBA. We can hang with teams like the Pacers, but what is more crucial in half court sets? Superior defensive big men or big time SFs....It really seems like Porter/Noel or bust.

[Kanyewest]

How does Bennett's measurements compare to David West? I believe when West was drafted, the knock on him was that he would be too small to play power forward. Now the Pacers are categorized as one of the "traditional" teams along with San Antonio and Memphis that remain in the NBA playoffs. I believe West had his doubters defensively as well especially when Maryland knocked out Xavier in the NCAA tournament.

[montestewart]

How does Bennett's measurements compare to David West? I believe when West was drafted, the knock on him was that he would be too small to play power forward. Now the Pacers are categorized as one of the "traditional" teams along with San Antonio and Memphis that remain in the NBA playoffs. I believe West had his doubters defensively as well especially when Maryland knocked out Xavier in the NCAA tournament.

David West measured 6'9.25" in shoes, w/ wingspan of 7'4.25' and standing reach of 9'0.5", David Bennett measured 6'7" in shoes, w/ wingspan of 7'1' and no standing reach yet announced. (All numbers from draftexpress.com) West's numbers are fine for a PF and his reach and wingspan seem pretty good for his height. Bennett doesn't need to meet that standing reach, but it would be nice to know what the measure is.

[truwizfan4evr]

wizards and cavs should make a draft day deal cavs draft Noel and trade him to wizards for porter and a second rounder it would work out for both teams.

[Deeptu McPullup]

wizards and cavs should make a draft day deal cavs draft Noel and trade him to wizards for porter and a second rounder it would work out for both teams.

Yeah, this might well be our best move, but the trick is finding the incentive that works for both teams. The Cavs have more picks than they know what to do with.

Might be that we need to find a third team.

* If we traded the Bulls Okafor for Boozer, what would the Bulls give the Cavs? (I actually kind of like this for us despite the money)

* If we took someone like Gooden for Ariza, what would the Bucks send to the Cavs? (this one's pretty well a disaster)

* Do the Cavs like Deandre Jordan? Maybe Okariza to the Clips, Gee/Butler to DC and Deandre to the Cavs. (this one actually saves us money)

...continue the same idea on down through the league rosters...

All those extra picks the Cavs have could be pooled and sent to the third team in order to get a significant piece to Cleveland as well.

Taking Gee off the cavs for expirings might also come into it.

Porter complements Irving's gaps as a playmaker and doesn't get in the way if James comes back and plays mostly at the 4.

[WizarDynasty]

I see similarities in their point forward skills, defensive skills, passing, and range. Offensively too. And I can see Porter developing a Pippen type build in a couple years, when he's like 24.

Otto Porter has body control with the basketball but no explosivness and average length for a small forward.
What made Pippen great was that he not only had body control with the basketball and above average length but most importantly Pippen was explosives. PIppen had blake griffin like explosivenss from a standstill position.
Porter has no explosiveness which immediately and PERMANENTLY disqualfies him from any ceiling to scottie Pippen.
pippen was a perimeter star because he had the most important of the three elements to be a star on the perimeter. Explosivness.
The other two which are important but not as much as explosiveness, he showed signs of in college.

Body control--coordination with the basketball and Elite Length for his position.
three attribution. But the most important is always explosiveness for a perimeter player.

For a post player
Explosivness can be substituted for elite length but body control with the basketball always has to be there along with quick coordinated feet and lower body strength.

Unless a player ranks in the 99th percentile, he has to have explosivness and body control to be a superstar. All supestars have body control with the basketball...and all superstars are either explosive or have average explosivness but 99th percentile length.
All superstar post players have above average lower body strength and coordinated feet at the bare minimum along with body control with the basketball. If they don't have elite length, they absolutely have to be explosive.
Very rare exceptions to this rule.
Pippen at 1:39 show explosivness and body control with the basketball while in college. Both have to be there. Porter shows elite body control but absolutely zero explosiveness. Permanently a role player.
Adam's explosivness in his shotblocking and average body control using his right hand offensively on in the post. YOu see it with his left hand as well and he has above average lower body strength and coordinated feet fighting for rebounding position.
Noel shows explosivness athleticism in his shotblocking but shows no lower body strength in college and show average to below average body control coordination with the ball.
these are the dimensions that you should be rating each prospect if you consider yourself a realgm. that's what this board is suppose to be. Pretend GM's but i see absolutely zero analysis of these dimensions which are critical to being an nba star.



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qchnEgRqb4k[/youtube]