Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI

[sfam]

If we do decide on Zeller or anyone else outside of Porter/ Bennett/ McLemore/ or Noels, we need to move down a couple of spots and pick up an asset.

The problem with a parity of talent is it will be really hard to do this. More than likely our trade down possibilities will leave us outside the top 10. Why would Sactown want to give an asset to move up a few spots when they might get just as high a quality player at #7?

Trading down might make a lot of sense if Porter is gone at #3 and we like Zeller.

Let's assume Porter and Noel go 1, 2. What are the chances that Zeller lasts until the late lottery?

3: Washington
4: Charlotte - won't take him over Oladipo, McLemore and Bennett
5: Phoenix - won't take him over Oladipo, McLemore and Bennett
6: New Orleans - won't take him with Davis and Anderson already on roster
7: Sacramento - maybe
8: Detroit - don't need front court help
9: Minnesota - Love and Williams already play PF
10: Portland - their franchise player plays PF
11: Philly - won't slip past here

We would be able to trade down pretty far and still have a shot at him. The only concern is Sacramento. Of course, other trades could throw a monkey wrench into this. I wouldn't trade all the way down to #10 and assume he'd still be there. I do think we could trade down as far as 7 though.

Other teams might do it for the opportunity to draft McLemore. I'm sure Minnesota would be thrilled to move up to #3. Sacramento might be too. If nothing else, we should leak that we are talking to these teams about trade downs to make Charlotte and Phoenix nervous. If Charlotte or Phoenix wants McLemore or Oladipo, they can't just assume that they won't get drafted at #3.

But again, why would Sactown want to trade up? They'll still be looking at either a Burke, Michael Carter-Williams or CJ McCollum at that pick - probably two of the three. How much better a pick do they get by moving to the #3, and more importantly, what would it take to move up? Would we take their #36, for instance? And if so, is that really worth moving down for that?

[sfam]

I think New Orleans and Minn are the most obvious trade down partners. New Orleans also has their 2014 1st. I think it would have protection, but it is not a bad incentive. Also I think Len(or even Bennett) is a good back-up option if Zeller gets picked earlier than expected.

I like Bennett and Zeller significantly more than Len. That would be a drop off in my mind, one that would require we get a really nice asset for dropping down.

But, wouldn't it be great if rumours about Cleveland taking Len #1 are true. That'd knock everyone one further back.

[sfam]

Lot of bad info in the Aldridge articles BTW. He's just reporting what he hears, but those personnel men are lying their butts off to him. I caught a couple of pretty obvious plants in the Zeller section like, "He's not as good as his brother Tyler" and, "He'll need to be familiar with the NBA 3 point line."

Everyone acknowledges he's better than Tyler, that's pretty obvious. And it's also obvious that most NBA bigs can't shoot threes and that is never a requirement for the position.

Teams are obfuscating to try and gain competitive advantages in the draft. Same thing happens every year with the NFL draft.

It hurt my head to read that crap. I like Aldridge but the guys he's talking to offer some incredibly poor analysis. I kept asking myself, how do these people have jobs???

They knew someone, had a family connection, or got their entry by being former players--popularity got them jobs and keeps them being hired, fired, and reemployed.

There are people who can do much better but who will forever be on the outside looking in.

I don't know how much I believe that. I gotta think that merit plays a far larger role than family connections. The only thing I see that is a clear problem from a merit standpoint is the continually high percentage of white hires, both with coaches and management. You gotta think some of the young, hot African American minds are getting backseated far more than they should.

[sfam]

if I'm trading or trading down, I'm going to be greedy.
I want a definite stud player ie Horford or maybe LMA. Otherwise I'm taking BPA.
I'm just more confused now about who BPA will be.

I just don't see anyone giving up a Horford level talent to move up in this draft, perhaps not even for the pick alone. I think the goodies are going to be of lots smaller faire than that - perhaps free t-shirts and Chipotles for the first 20 home games, or something like that.

[Zonkerbl]

I have no problem at all picking Zeller at 3. Combine says he has the physical tools to be productive, YODA says he's got an established history of using those tools to be productive, and he can shoot out to the NBA 3 line. So the only knock on him is his competitive fire? We're willing to give Bennett a pass for being passive on defense but not willing to take a chance on Zeller for a similar mental issue? Why?

If he's the BPA at 3, take him.

[Kanyewest]

have not caught up since yesterday (man this thread moves fast)
but I was thinking while watching the 1st half IND@MIA last night
that maybe it is imperative for EC teams to have uber talent at the 3.
Right now in order to get anywhere in the post-season, you need to
be competitive against the likes of Bron (good luck with that), Melo
and Paul George. Dat may have a point about the NBA as a whole
but the elite teams in the east all have studs at the 3 whether they
always are playing at the 3 or not. Having someone with a ghost of
a prayer of defending them as well as making them defend seems
like a necessity moreso than a luxury.

So with that said, maybe CLE does take OP first. After reading the latest
on Zeller, maybe he should be the pick if OP is gone.

what seemed simple at one time is becoming more and more complicated.

But 3 of the 4 teams can also play bigger- San Antonio has Duncan/Splitter, Pacers with West/Hibbert, and the Grizzlies with Randolph/Hibbert. Also, wouldn't necessarily put the elite teams in the East ahead of those like the Warriors, who have Harrison Barnes or the Nuggets with Iggy.

[tontoz]

I have no problem at all picking Zeller at 3. Combine says he has the physical tools to be productive, YODA says he's got an established history of using those tools to be productive, and he can shoot out to the NBA 3 line. So the only knock on him is his competitive fire? We're willing to give Bennett a pass for being passive on defense but not willing to take a chance on Zeller for a similar mental issue? Why?

If he's the BPA at 3, take him.

The big knocks on him are his weak standing reach and his..... weakness. He doesn't take contact well.

However if he shows range on his shot and the ability to score facing up off the dribble i think he is certainly a legit option. Having a 4 that can shoot would make Wall so much more effective.

[dobrojim]

if I'm trading or trading down, I'm going to be greedy.
I want a definite stud player ie Horford or maybe LMA. Otherwise I'm taking BPA.
I'm just more confused now about who BPA will be.

I just don't see anyone giving up a Horford level talent to move up in this draft, perhaps not even for the pick alone. I think the goodies are going to be of lots smaller faire than that - perhaps free t-shirts and Chipotles for the first 20 home games, or something like that.

I get that.

I'm saying the pick outright for a stud player.

[dobrojim]

have not caught up since yesterday (man this thread moves fast)
but I was thinking while watching the 1st half IND@MIA last night
that maybe it is imperative for EC teams to have uber talent at the 3.
Right now in order to get anywhere in the post-season, you need to
be competitive against the likes of Bron (good luck with that), Melo
and Paul George. Dat may have a point about the NBA as a whole
but the elite teams in the east all have studs at the 3 whether they
always are playing at the 3 or not. Having someone with a ghost of
a prayer of defending them as well as making them defend seems
like a necessity moreso than a luxury.

So with that said, maybe CLE does take OP first. After reading the latest
on Zeller, maybe he should be the pick if OP is gone.

what seemed simple at one time is becoming more and more complicated.

But 3 of the 4 teams can also play bigger- San Antonio has Duncan/Splitter, Pacers with West/Hibbert, and the Grizzlies with Randolph/Hibbert. Also, wouldn't necessarily put the elite teams in the East ahead of those like the Warriors, who have Harrison Barnes or the Nuggets with Iggy.

But the bigger teams you mention, except IND, we play less (reg season) and not at all
in the post-season until the Finals.

I think Nene/Okafor constitute enough size/strength to not let Hibbert
dominate as he has against Doughnut MIA.

We can disagree but I still say you better have a stud talent at the 3
or capable of guarding elite 3s (whether they're playing at 3 or 4)
in order to win in the playoffs in the EC.

[Ruzious]

I have no problem at all picking Zeller at 3. Combine says he has the physical tools to be productive, YODA says he's got an established history of using those tools to be productive, and he can shoot out to the NBA 3 line. So the only knock on him is his competitive fire? We're willing to give Bennett a pass for being passive on defense but not willing to take a chance on Zeller for a similar mental issue? Why?

If he's the BPA at 3, take him.

The big knocks on him are his weak standing reach and his..... weakness. He doesn't take contact well.

However if he shows range on his shot and the ability to score facing up off the dribble i think he is certainly a legit option. Having a 4 that can shoot would make Wall so much more effective.

Well, in spite of some tough times in the tournament, he can play with contact and score inside - if asked to. He averaged 9.7 FT attempts per 40 minutes last season.

[popper]

I have no problem at all picking Zeller at 3. Combine says he has the physical tools to be productive, YODA says he's got an established history of using those tools to be productive, and he can shoot out to the NBA 3 line. So the only knock on him is his competitive fire? We're willing to give Bennett a pass for being passive on defense but not willing to take a chance on Zeller for a similar mental issue? Why?

If he's the BPA at 3, take him.

I'm actually starting to get a bit excited about Zeller drafted to play the 4. I was totally against taking him as a center. If the reports are true that he can hit the outside shot then we could do a lot worse than having a seven foot PF that plays the game the right way. It's an added bonus that he can backup the C when necessary. Is it unrealistic to think he could turn in to an Anderson or Illyasova over time?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

They knew someone, had a family connection, or got their entry by being former players--popularity got them jobs and keeps them being hired, fired, and reemployed.

There are people who can do much better but who will forever be on the outside looking in.

I don't know how much I believe that. I gotta think that merit plays a far larger role than family connections. The only thing I see that is a clear problem from a merit standpoint is the continually high percentage of white hires, both with coaches and management. You gotta think some of the young, hot African American minds are getting backseated far more than they should.

I need to give my opinions better perspective. I was thinking about EG and coaching retreads. I was thinking of family hires. Unseld, Wittman, Saunders, Lynam, Nelson etc. have familial hires. I guess it's not very different from a family of doctors,lawyers, pharmacists, military service members, etc. There are reasons people follow in a parent or siblings' footstep. Some and maybe even most have a passion for what they do and are at least competent. However, there is the other extreme and they are on the payroll like Billy Hunter's famtliy. Greed, nepotism, and possibly some real heinous stuff goes on IMO.

sfam, I don't think minority hiring was historically a problem. Bill Russell coached in the 60s. Guys like Al Attles and Wayne Embry were in management 40 years ago Bob Johnson formerly and MJ own and I think more minority ownership would be welcomed. I may be naive but I think owners are by and large white or foreign. Their most trusted cohorts are the ones hired. Thus, as high as most minorities go is coaching.

I think there are precious few opportunities to break through in the NBA. Spoelstra was a good college PG who worked for years in Miami--but has dad is a well known coach.

Folks who play GM on the Internet may have their ideas used elsewhere, but in merit they will FOREVER be outsiders.

[closg00]

EG doesn't want 3 rookies on the roster but he is apparently OK with having two garbage cans (Ves,CS).

I wish Ted, EG, and Wittman were sharper and not self-protective, closed-minded, people. They are flat stupid to say they don't want three rookies.

Wall would have his hands full guarding Siva or Pierre Jackson, and one of them might slip all the way to 55. EG wouldn't trade down for Dieng, Muscala and Siva, Jackson, or Wolters because that would be three rookies and he is not a good GM. Wittman's job is on the line and he and Ernie will throw all their hope into medio re thirty year old players with big contracts. They don't like youth or the draft.

Look no-further for an explanation as to why the Wizards:

*Do not develop young talent
*Are always stuck in mediocrity
*Have so-few tradeable assets

Ernie Grunfeld patches together a team in a lazy and haphazard fashion. Ted should read this article.
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/48436258

[Rafael122]

I'm not one to read into trends, but based on the workout schedule for next week, Wizards are definitely looking at the backup point guard spot, and it also sounds like they won't keep that 2nd second round pick. Very guard heavy too.

[pancakes3]

If we're really letting ourselves dream big, what if he's the next Kevin Love?

edit: he = Zeller

[dobrojim]

lot of what if's in this draft cakes.
Hard to decide which one is the most plausible.

[Zonkerbl]

I have no problem at all picking Zeller at 3. Combine says he has the physical tools to be productive, YODA says he's got an established history of using those tools to be productive, and he can shoot out to the NBA 3 line. So the only knock on him is his competitive fire? We're willing to give Bennett a pass for being passive on defense but not willing to take a chance on Zeller for a similar mental issue? Why?

If he's the BPA at 3, take him.

The big knocks on him are his weak standing reach and his..... weakness. He doesn't take contact well.

However if he shows range on his shot and the ability to score facing up off the dribble i think he is certainly a legit option. Having a 4 that can shoot would make Wall so much more effective.

Hm. You know, Cody may only have a 8'10" standing reach, but he also has a no step vert of 35.5", giving him the third highest standing no step vert and third highest no step vert reach in this year's draft. His max vert reach of 11'11.5" is nothing to sneeze at either.

[tontoz]

Hm. You know, Cody may only have a 8'10" standing reach, but he also has a no step vert of 35.5", giving him the third highest standing no step vert and third highest no step vert reach in this year's draft. His max vert reach of 11'11.5" is nothing to sneeze at either.

I was just stating what the big knocks on him were. I don't remember people making a big deal about his "competitive fire".

If he continues to shoot well i would certainly be open to drafting him. College teams made him the focus of their defense. It will be a different story in the pros.

[Zonkerbl]

Hm. You know, Cody may only have a 8'10" standing reach, but he also has a no step vert of 35.5", giving him the third highest standing no step vert and third highest no step vert reach in this year's draft. His max vert reach of 11'11.5" is nothing to sneeze at either.

I was just stating what the big knocks on him were. I don't remember people making a big deal about his "competitive fire".

If he continues to shoot well i would certainly be open to drafting him. College teams made him the focus of their defense. It will be a different story in the pros.

Maybe I'm misremembering.

Just not quite getting why no one wants him. Dude is going to surprise people. Can we please be the ones doing the surprising?

[AFM]

I don't know, I think wasting a lottery pick on Jan AirBall Vesely was pretty surprising.