Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If the deal ends up Vesely, Singleton, #3 for Ilyasova, #15. I will say the deal might work out depending on who the #15 pick is.

http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Ers ... /Bests/128
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... bile=false

Ilyasova might be up to three years older than his listed 26 years of age.

His ability to stretch the floor would work very well with Wall's slashing ability. His offense with decent rebounding at his contract amount make him a bargain. He's a stretch four Wall would like.

The deal would be better for Milwaukee. It still could also be good if Washington found a quality, future starter at 15, which is very possible.

Why do you say that Ersan may be up to 3 years older than his listed age? I have never heard that before.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Ersan-Ilyasova-254/

Just read the scouting reports from most recent in 2009 to the first in 2005.

His birth year might actually be 1984--not that it matters. Ilyasova is signed long term for a very reasonable amount.

[hands11]

I just don't understand why you'd ever have to reach into your pockets and trade the #3 with all the movable assets that we have. Virtually our entire bench + expirings in Okafor and Ariza along with two second rounders.

Just seems crazy to me.

Maybe you aren't seeing it like others are.

I wouldn't move Okafor and Ariza for a pick in this draft. No way.

Thats way to much talent and experience to give up on the team. Wall and Beal need that steadiness.

If you move either, you better bring back some talent and experience.

I'd rather not move them either hands...but Ernie already tried to move Ariza for Butler. I'm pretty terrified of our GM.

Well not sure we know the whole story there since it didnt go down but at least he was exchanging experience for experience.

I did watch Trevor's post season wrap up interview and he did go out of his way to say, he is a starter. I think its pretty clear he isn't ready to be a back up in his mind. I wouldn't doubt he asked to be traded if they could find something that worked for them but if not, he wasn't going to make any public trouble about it. After all, he is getting paid pretty well and he was given an opportunity to show improved efficiency off the bench like he was able to do in the past. So for him, no harm in asking them to look around.

Why for the Wizards. If they aren't on the same page, then why not go get a vet player that you know you liked from the past, who while a little older, is signed for only one year like Trevor A was.

When they blow this entire thing up, CB was probably the one player they should have never moved. But again, who knows how the conversations went behind closed doors. Maybe knowing the blow up was coming, CB wanted a chance to have a more meaningful career elsewhere, which he has.

Bringing CB back would have been an exchange of vets with playoff and title experience, paid about the same but with different skill sets and personalities. I could see the thinking that CB would have worked well with Nene, Okafor and Webster as mentors for Wall and Beal and to help get them playoff experience.

And to the DC fans, CB is already family so I could see a warm welcome in him returning.

So I can see how there would be stuff like this that would make the deal make sense for a lot of reasons.

[gambitx777]

I think we should be fine taking a 4 or 5 in the first round because there are so many good guards and wings in the second round that we could make out fine taking those guys there.

[hands11]

just looking at Harrison Barnes, the guy i thought was better than Beal and I think is way better than him. I just wonder if most of the people on this board think that Porter comes anywhere close to Barnes? Just shows how horrible EG is at running the ship. I tell him Adams and Bennett are one and two in this draft and he goes out and drafts a bum like porter, len, or Zeller.
Or better yet, goes out and trades for a stretch 4 using the 3rd overall pick when stretch 4 are suppose to be paid matt bonner, steve novak type money and come off the bench in strategically at select moments in the game? This management is horrible and I give them a framework, free advise, and they shoot themselves in the foot every time.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1lv_eqfxbM[/youtube]

just go to 2:00 minutes of the video. You guys have homer shades if you think Beal is on Barnes level. Beal is decent spot up shooter if he is wide open, but Barnes is a far more complete player. Look at us this year, we spent 300 pages discussing a bum like porter when we had Barnes in our pocket last year. On a scale from 1 to 10, Barnes is 8.5 and Porter is a 3.

Personally I'd move Beal for a box of Cheerios. Who wants more all star appearances on our team anyways?

Ahh yeah.

Lets sit back and see if WizD has it right. Personally, I don't think he is.
I'm putting my beat on Beal over Barnes.

And I would beat if you did a poll, it would be a clear majority of the board saying the same thing. So for that pick, the board is pretty much on the same page of the Wiz front office.

As for criticizing the front office about moves they haven't made, I think people over react a bit to much with that stuff. Moves never made are not moves and they can't be evaluated in the real world. You don't even have the real details of what the move would be.

Not saying its not fun to evaluate the rumors as a fan, but people wig out to much about stuff that hasn't happened and then assign negative comments to the front office like the move actually did happen.

Well the moves didn't. And we are not real life general managers of 500 million dollar professional NBA basketball teams that report to Billionaire owners. We are just fans.

Curious since I don't do fantasy basketball but is there a system out there that emulates the NBA down to all the details. You have a team with all the same salary rules and you get to draft college players with a lottery and everything ?

[hands11]

No need to give them Seraphin. It works with just Vesely and Singleton as salary ballast.

If the deal ends up Vesely, Singleton, #3 for Ilyasova, #15. I will say the deal might work out depending on who the #15 pick is.

http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Ers ... /Bests/128
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... bile=false

Ilyasova might be up to three years older than his listed 26 years of age.

His ability to stretch the floor would work very well with Wall's slashing ability. His offense with decent rebounding at his contract amount make him a bargain. He's a stretch four Wall would like.

The deal would be better for Milwaukee. It still could also be good if Washington found a quality, future starter at 15, which is very possible.

Why do you say that Ersan may be up to 3 years older than his listed age? I have never heard that before.

I would pick BPA at 3 and see if I could trade other Assets for Anderson or Illyasova. If I didn't get a bite, I would draft Erik Murphy or try to fill the need for a pick and pop PF elsewhere.

Noel makes me nervous. I think I read on RealGM that he had a growth plate injury in his knee in HS that caused him to miss significant time. In kids that are still growing, the growth plate often fails before the ACL. I wonder if the 1st injury wasn't very similar and whether Noel may just be very susceptible to this type of injury. As a guy who is going to make his living based on his athleticism and not based on other skills, it will be a huge concern if Noel isn't going to be able to retain his explosiveness over the long term, because of these knee injuries.

You did read that. They also said he returned to soon and wondered what the long term damage may be.

Maybe another Marcus Camby

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/i ... rcus-camby

But think of Noel as value more then what he can do for the Wizards. If he can take his time and return healthy, you have a good year at least in which you could move him and probably get a lot in exchange. So his longer term injury issue aren't as much a concern if you don't plan on keeping him.

I would have to imagine he could be a great trade chip in any bigger deals that go down over the next two years. Taking the entire season off could actually work to maintain that value. Specially if he add some weight in the process.

Maybe we could use him in a future LaMarcus Aldridge deal.

[payitforward]

just looking at Harrison Barnes, the guy i thought was better than Beal and I think is way better than him. ... You guys have homer shades if you think Beal is on Barnes level.

That may be the single most ridiculous thing I've read on this board. Take a look at Barnes' numbers on the season. I didn't think he was likely even to be an NBA starter; he looks to be a little bit better than my projection, but not all that much.

[Dat2U]

Harrison Barnes went to the perfect situation and had an "ok" rookie year. He shot the ball pretty well and wasn't a turnstile defensively but lets not go overboard in his praise. He's still not a shot creator. He's your typical 3&D wing with limitations. Had he gone to situation where he was expected to create shots, he would have failed miserably.

We would not be happy with Barnes because we would have needed more from him. Golden State might be happy because they already have Curry, Thompson, Lee, Bogut & Landry as their top 5 guys so Barnes only needs to fill a specific role.

[stevemcqueen1]

I was thinking about how the SG/SF, and SF/PF types from 2010-2013 might be ranked one day. Lots of tweeners in the group. This is how I thought they would be categorized and ranked:


SG/SFs:

1.) Paul George
2.) MKG
3.) Shabazz Muhammad
4.) Jimmy Butler
5.) Evan Turner

SF/PFs:
1.) Otto Porter
2.) Kawhi Leonard
3.) Tobias Harris

Pure SFs:
1.) Harrison Barnes
2.) Gordon Hayward
3.) Mo Harkless

It's actually hard to classify some of those guys. What is MKG? What is Kawhi Leonard? Their body types say they are completely different things from their skill sets. MKG is huge but his ball handling and slashing style makes him more suited to SG than PF, so he falls closer to that end of the spectrum. Kawhi Leonard is 6'6 but plays like a corner 3 shooting PF, checks LeBron, is a demon on the glass, and frequently plays up at PF in SA's small lineups.

Barnes gave me a little trouble too because he's big enough to be a SF/PF hybrid and David West can play up at C in small ball lineups. That'd be a horrible defensive line up though. He's got the skill set of a classic pure SF though, so I stuck him there.

Porter also might be a pure SF too if he doesn't get stronger. But hes got the size and background of a SF/PF hybrid.

Harris is actually probably close to a full time PF than SF. He stands out from the rest of the list in that way.

No one on those lists is dominant like LeBron, KD, or Melo though. As those guys age out, the young guys will probably split a lot of AS appearances between them. Definitely the West guys anyway, where the SF crop is more diluted. Unless Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, and Aaron Gordon all end up there. Those guys are going to jump to the top of the list when they come in.

[WizarDynasty]

after further consideration, I think the wizards wisest move in this draft is to take Ersan and 15th and run with it. Ersan fits well with this squad and at bare minimum 15th pick is included.
I Ersan is a better fit longterm for us over Bennett, Porter, Zeller, and Len as long his age really is 26 versus 31...which is what people are reporting his actual age is before birth certificate modication.
Ersan and 15th is better than the dwilliams and 9 because Ersan is already a proven rebounder and shooter versus d.wiliams who is unproven in both categories.

[AFM]

And who would you target with the 15th pick?

[sfam]

just looking at Harrison Barnes, the guy i thought was better than Beal and I think is way better than him. ... You guys have homer shades if you think Beal is on Barnes level.

That may be the single most ridiculous thing I've read on this board. Take a look at Barnes' numbers on the season. I didn't think he was likely even to be an NBA starter; he looks to be a little bit better than my projection, but not all that much.

WizD, just as an aside, clearly all the voters for the NBA all rookie team had homer shades as well considering Beal (57 points) came in second only to Lillard (58 points). Barnes was a distant 5th with 47 points. I had no idea Wizards homers dominated the NBA press corps, but there you go!

[WizarDynasty]

Well Ersan makes our line up very hard during crucial times of the game because the center will be the only one guarding the paint and wall will have 3 options to pass when he beats his man on the drive.
I think at 15 you draft the guys who has the closest attributes to wizard ensuring that he has 2 out of 3 attributes from the base. Then you work your way up the pyramid and eliminate the pool based on wingspan, standing reach, basketball iq. the pool gets smaller and smaller until you are left with 2 prospects that meet all of the criteria and only slight differences in basketball IQ exist.
so ideally, 2 out 3 on base check with lower body strength check. then move to second level, lateral speed, wingspan, and standing reach...check. then move to top of pyramid, basketball IQ and motivational attributes. If you have candidates who pass all of the three levels, you are in good shape. if none of the candidates gets through the pyramid, trade the 15th pick and try to get a bench player on a team in the league who makes it through the pyramid.
so the question is, what players projected past 15 make it through the pyramid? That is probably the question that you are asking me. That's where our collective Wizard pretend GM power comes in. We have all seen the consequences of a post player with poor lower body strength==mcgee and blatche. We have seen the consequences of a post player with poor body control with the basketball--al thornton, Vesely, Haywood, Booker. We have seen the consequences of a player who can't hasn't shown the consistent ability to initiate and finish through contact, young, blatche, mcgee, rashard lewis, mike miller, al thornton, haywood, seraphin, booker, nick young, beal, ariza, crawford, Webster. Nene, Wall are pretty much the only players who consistently initiate contact and regularly finish. We management has horrible experience bringing in these type of players.
We only have one player who regularly uses above average lower body strength and high motor fighting for defensive rebounds EVERY play.
So I think we bring in a player at 15 who has demonstrated consistent ability to finish plays after initiating contact offensively and has a demonstrated track record in college. That's where i would start at.
If there are no player projected at 15 with this ability, i would strongly reconsider trading for Ersan because Bennett and Adams fulfill there rare category. If there are players with this attribute available at 15, then Adams and Bennett's value is somewhat diminished.

[nate33]

I'd be happy with the #3 plus Vesely & Singleton for Ilyasova and the #15 if Adams was there at #15.

Problem is, I think Adams doesn't get past OKC at #12.

[Ruzious]

I could be wrong, but if I was OKC, I'd want a big who can play right away, take some of Perkins' minutes and be able to do something on offense. Adams is so raw on offense that I can't see him being ready to play. And while he has the ability to be a good defender, it's not like he's Drummond at that end. Adams got by on offense only because he didn't try to do what he couldn't do - but he didn't do a heckuvalot. But speaking as a potential Wizard, they won't pick him because he's so raw, I think he's an even worse fit, because they need offense, and he can't do very much there. Remember, Pittsburg played him 23 minutes a game because of his offensive limitations. I'll actually be surprised if Adams goes in the lottery at all - unless there's a team picking that doesn't expect him to contribute any more than Leonard (another raw 7 footer) did last season.

[stevemcqueen1]

We need to be getting a player back for at least the next 7 years with the #3 pick. A top 3 pick in any draft should have that expectation. Rookie contract plus extension and really he should have at least one all star appearance.

Ilyasova is not worth that. Especially if he's actually 29.

[nate33]

What if we work out a three way with Minnesota and Milwaukee. In a nutshell, Milwaukee packages Redick and the 15th in a S&T to Minnesota for the #9 and a lesser player. Then Milwaukee sends the #9 plus Ilyasova to us for the #3 and Vesely + Singleton.

Meh. I guess it can't work because Redick is a S&T and you can't package him with draft picks.

[Dat2U]

I could be wrong, but if I was OKC, I'd want a big who can play right away, take some of Perkins' minutes and be able to do something on offense. Adams is so raw on offense that I can't see him being ready to play. And while he has the ability to be a good defender, it's not like he's Drummond at that end. Adams got by on offense only because he didn't try to do what he couldn't do - but he didn't do a heckuvalot. But speaking as a potential Wizard, they won't pick him because he's so raw, I think he's an even worse fit, because they need offense, and he can't do very much there. Remember, Pittsburg played him 23 minutes a game because of his offensive limitations. I'll actually be surprised if Adams goes in the lottery at all - unless there's a team picking that doesn't expect him to contribute any more than Leonard (another raw 7 footer) did last season.

I think Olynyk or Dieng is a better direction for OKC to go in. Adams is definitely a project big. There should be no expectation that he'll contribute next year. He's talented, but as about as raw as it gets in terms of development.

[nuposse04]

Here's a thought...if the ersan trade did go down...but only like Ersan+15 for 3rd+Vesely+Singleton

Could we use the 15+I don't know....ariza or Seraphin and move up?

I'd only consider it if someone like Len or Adams had for w/e odd reason had fallen considerably.

[nate33]

I could be wrong, but if I was OKC, I'd want a big who can play right away, take some of Perkins' minutes and be able to do something on offense. Adams is so raw on offense that I can't see him being ready to play. And while he has the ability to be a good defender, it's not like he's Drummond at that end. Adams got by on offense only because he didn't try to do what he couldn't do - but he didn't do a heckuvalot. But speaking as a potential Wizard, they won't pick him because he's so raw, I think he's an even worse fit, because they need offense, and he can't do very much there. Remember, Pittsburg played him 23 minutes a game because of his offensive limitations. I'll actually be surprised if Adams goes in the lottery at all - unless there's a team picking that doesn't expect him to contribute any more than Leonard (another raw 7 footer) did last season.

I think Olynyk or Dieng is a better direction for OKC to go in. Adams is definitely a project big. There should be no expectation that he'll contribute next year. He's talented, but as about as raw as it gets in terms of development.

Good point. Dieng might be a better pick for OKC. Dallas could conceivably take Adams but would probably also prefer an NBA-ready guy. Utah won't take Adams. So Adams might indeed slip to #15. I wouldn't be all that upset if we turned the #3 pick and Ernie's Kids into Ilyasova and Adams - particularly if Porter was off the board at #3.

One reason I like Adams is that I think this team is going to eventually try and play small at the 4 spot with a stretch four or with a small forward playing out of position. It makes a lot of sense given Wall's game. With that the case, we're going to need a real physical presence at the 5 spot since he's going to be the only bruiser on the court. A behemoth like Adams can get the job done. We will look a lot like Houston with Asik, or the Orlando teams with Howard.

[Kanyewest]

I was thinking about how the SG/SF, and SF/PF types from 2010-2013 might be ranked one day. Lots of tweeners in the group. This is how I thought they would be categorized and ranked:


SG/SFs:

1.) Paul George
2.) MKG
3.) Shabazz Muhammad
4.) Jimmy Butler
5.) Evan Turner

SF/PFs:
1.) Otto Porter
2.) Kawhi Leonard
3.) Tobias Harris

Pure SFs:
1.) Harrison Barnes
2.) Gordon Hayward
3.) Mo Harkless

It's actually hard to classify some of those guys. What is MKG? What is Kawhi Leonard? Their body types say they are completely different things from their skill sets. MKG is huge but his ball handling and slashing style makes him more suited to SG than PF, so he falls closer to that end of the spectrum. Kawhi Leonard is 6'6 but plays like a corner 3 shooting PF, checks LeBron, is a demon on the glass, and frequently plays up at PF in SA's small lineups.

Barnes gave me a little trouble too because he's big enough to be a SF/PF hybrid and David West can play up at C in small ball lineups. That'd be a horrible defensive line up though. He's got the skill set of a classic pure SF though, so I stuck him there.

Porter also might be a pure SF too if he doesn't get stronger. But hes got the size and background of a SF/PF hybrid.

Harris is actually probably close to a full time PF than SF. He stands out from the rest of the list in that way.

No one on those lists is dominant like LeBron, KD, or Melo though. As those guys age out, the young guys will probably split a lot of AS appearances between them. Definitely the West guys anyway, where the SF crop is more diluted. Unless Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, and Aaron Gordon all end up there. Those guys are going to jump to the top of the list when they come in.

Barnes played reasonably well as a 4 with the Warriors with Lee out. He exploited his matchup at times although Parker guarding him. IMO he wasn't a defensive liability.