#3 for Ilyasova being discussed

[sfam]

You guys really under-estimate how good ERS is. He is better than Porter will ever be. Have fun with the 3 pick in one of the worst years to have a good pick in the draft.

Then I'm sure Milwaukee fans are thrilled they won't be saddled with such a lousy pick. Consider yourself lucky to be able to keep the better player.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

So Ernie trades the Rashard Lewis expiring (and eating up all our potential cap room last season in the process) for Okafor & Ariza.

Meantime, we pass on Harden because were afraid to pay him, partly due to the $42 million in contracts we took on in the Okafor/Ariza deal.

And because we took the Okafor/Ariza deal, we took ourselves out of the running for either Ilyasova or Anderson when they were unrestricted free agents.

Now, we get lucky enough to get the 3rd pick in the draft following a bust of a season where we won 29 games, and were now hearing rumors of Grunfeld willing to trade the 3rd & Okafor for Illyasova, the guy we could have simply signed last year had we not traded for Okafor in the first place.

And people wonder why I always freak out about Ernie.

In this forum before Ernie traded Rashard we discussed which free agents Washington could pursue. Danny Green 's name also came up, along with Omer Asik and Robin Lopez.

It is a shame to feel helpless to prevent bad decisions.

The rush to trade is not the right decision.

[LyricalRico]

You guys really under-estimate how good ERS is. He is better than Porter will ever be. Have fun with the 3 pick in one of the worst years to have a good pick in the draft.

Then I'm sure Milwaukee fans are thrilled they won't be saddled with such a lousy pick. Consider yourself lucky to be able to keep the better player.

Exactly. If the #3 has such low value, why are Bucks fans apparently so interested in their team potentially trading for it?

[Deivy202]

man the hate for this guy is crazy! nene and okefor are old time to get younger we will need about 5 more years to consider maybe a championchip I rather have a young expensive player than a old injury prone players.

It's hilarious. A lot of people liked his game last year for his ability to shoot and rebound decently. Next thing, Ernie gets involved and he's worse than Vesely. EG could trade Singleton, Vesely and and both 2nds for Durant and people would find fault with it.

On the other hand, while I believe that there might be some validity because I think every GM talks to other GMs about all sorts of trade scenarios before the draft, I doubt he gives up a pro's pro like Okafor (who people were killing this year as well but now he's Wes Unseld in his prime).

Ersan is a good player and would look good on this team, but not for the 3rd pick in the draft.

well we are also gettin the 15th pick in which can be a SF or C which will regardless help us along with two 2nd round picks.

I would be worried about our draft staff but I think we wont be as bad as we think i mean we will have more money next year for FA so i think this move helps us alot we also get two decent role players too.

[Deivy202]

Another thing this is a weak draft . And for those who are saying Ilsoyva is not worth it than thats 100% wrong this guy was a better rebounder than okefor and nene and avg to about 13-17 ppg and O hes also healthy. He also was the best player on a **** team and if Wall and our FO wants a PF who can shoot from mid range and hit 3s than why not do it? we need a offense our D will survive without a Ariza and or Nene or okefor . If you guys watch the Bucs or learn more of them than you would know the players we are getting plays good D too.


i think people just wanna see a Gtown guy come in which I would too but lets face facts we are better off next year hoping a much better prospect comes along. Its also not easy finding a PF who can shoot pretty good either so i don't see why the big No's this guy with Wall can end up having a career here it would honestly not only open up for Solva but for Wall as well ! it would be a nightmare possibly!.

[Deivy202]

You guys really under-estimate how good ERS is. He is better than Porter will ever be. Have fun with the 3 pick in one of the worst years to have a good pick in the draft.

Then I'm sure Milwaukee fans are thrilled they won't be saddled with such a lousy pick. Consider yourself lucky to be able to keep the better player.

Exactly. If the #3 has such low value, why are Bucks fans apparently so interested in their team potentially trading for it?

Because they are ending up with alot of cap to get a Josh Smith or one of the better FA in free agency . They dont want him gone but i mean if it opens up to get you a Josh smith type than go for it..the bucs are in bigger needs than we do heck even injured I think we where better than them and healthy we would of had a winning record.

Im like 70% on this trade and id be fine with the #3 pick but I really want us to space the court it would really help us out alot.

[JWizmentality]

Another thing this is a weak draft . And for those who are saying Ilsoyva is not worth it than thats 100% wrong this guy was a better rebounder than okefor and nene and avg to about 13-17 ppg and O hes also healthy. He also was the best player on a **** team and if Wall and our FO wants a PF who can shoot from mid range and hit 3s than why not do it? we need a offense our D will survive without a Ariza and or Nene or okefor . If you guys watch the Bucs or learn more of them than you would know the players we are getting plays good D too.


i think people just wanna see a Gtown guy come in which I would too but lets face facts we are better off next year hoping a much better prospect comes along. Its also not easy finding a PF who can shoot pretty good either so i don't see why the big No's this guy with Wall can end up having a career here it would honestly not only open up for Solva but for Wall as well ! it would be a nightmare possibly!.

Won't even get into the nonsense of saying he's a better rebounder than Oak. You could make an argument with Nene, but then again, he played on one leg last year. Look at the numbers.

[rockymac52]

If this is really being discussed, then a smart GM would realize that it means that the Bucks do not value Ilyasova very highly going forward and would change up our negotiation strategy as such. Think about it. They have a relatively young player on a relatively cap friendly deal for the next few years, and he's already been very productive and brings a unique skill set to the table. Those are all the reasons why we'd love to acquire such a player, right? Well, if the Bucks are talking about trading him to you, you have to step back and realize that they aren't that attached to him.

[DANNYLANDOVER]

If this is really being discussed, then a smart GM would realize that it means that the Bucks do not value Ilyasova very highly going forward and would change up our negotiation strategy as such. Think about it. They have a relatively young player on a relatively cap friendly deal for the next few years, and he's already been very productive and brings a unique skill set to the table. Those are all the reasons why we'd love to acquire such a player, right? Well, if the Bucks are talking about trading him to you, you have to step back and realize that they aren't that attached to him.

exactly...this is the same team that traded Tobias Harris to the Magic for a 3 month rental of Reddick. We NEED to be fleecing them...something like Seraphin, Singleton, Jan, both 2nds, and the rights to Tomas should work or just Ariza and both 2nds. Instead we have a GM that wants to get shafted for a 3rd pick.

[doclinkin]

Going back a bit:

You may not notice it, but Okafor is in a steady decline, at least offensively. Last year was the worst of his career since his 2nd injury plagued season with Charlotte. His TS% dipped from .584 in '10-'11 to .539 in '11-'12 to just .496 last year. Any big with a TS% in .500 range is going to be a big net negative to a team's offense. I don't know how we project him playing at a high level 2 or 3 years from now when he's already no longer the player he was just 2 or 3 seasons ago. Okafor is a below average NBA starter at age 30. We've got a 22 yr old star PG and potentially two 19 yr old wing players, why in the world are we focusing on maintaining a declining center so far past his prime?

Whether it speaks for or against him I dunno, but you're glossing over the fact that Okafor quietly had offseason knee surgery and (like Wall) once he recovered he was extremely productive. But still, he did have surgery, which is rarely a strong endorsement for an older player. Except that it seems to have worked.

Not saying we focus on him as a linchpin, and I too want a replacement and back-up behind him since it has proven how we clearly need him playing well for us to do well. But still, he has been a good player for us.

[LyricalRico]

exactly...this is the same team that traded Tobias Harris to the Magic for a 3 month rental of Reddick. We NEED to be fleecing them...something like Seraphin, Singleton, Jan, both 2nds, and the rights to Tomas should work or just Ariza and both 2nds.

Interesting. Maybe we can get Ersan on the cheap if Milwaukee really just wants to take their frontcourt in a different direction. Ariza would certainly help them at SF. And we could also take Moute off their hands if it meant keeping the #3.

Ariza+Singleton+38 for Ilyasova+Moute?

I'd even take Gooden instead of Moute if they included the #15.

[Dat2U]

Ernie Grunfeld got fleeced by Kahn of all people. Unfortunately Ernie is a fleecee, not a fleecer.

[fishercob]

Keep the pick, S&T for Paul Millsap. I'm only trading for Illy at this point if #3 isn't involved or if we're getting MIL's 14 pick with little protection.

Bucks fans are all for trading Illy an 15 for 3 and then signing Millsap. Why wouldn't we just do that? Sap would be our youngest big an get to play with Wall and Beal as opposed to MIL's disastrously chucktastic backcourt.

[sfam]

Another thing this is a weak draft . And for those who are saying Ilsoyva is not worth it than thats 100% wrong this guy was a better rebounder than okefor and nene and avg to about 13-17 ppg and O hes also healthy. He also was the best player on a **** team and if Wall and our FO wants a PF who can shoot from mid range and hit 3s than why not do it? we need a offense our D will survive without a Ariza and or Nene or okefor . If you guys watch the Bucs or learn more of them than you would know the players we are getting plays good D too.


i think people just wanna see a Gtown guy come in which I would too but lets face facts we are better off next year hoping a much better prospect comes along. Its also not easy finding a PF who can shoot pretty good either so i don't see why the big No's this guy with Wall can end up having a career here it would honestly not only open up for Solva but for Wall as well ! it would be a nightmare possibly!.

Actually there's a great PF prospect there just waiting for us that can shoot, rebound, AND that has elite athletics - Anthony Bennet. We are better off drafting him.

[Dat2U]

Keep the pick, S&T for Paul Millsap. I'm only trading for Illy at this point if #3 isn't involved or if we're getting MIL's 14 pick with little protection.

Bucks fans are all for trading Illy an 15 for 3 and then signing Millsap. Why wouldn't we just do that? Sap would be our youngest big an get to play with Wall and Beal as opposed to MIL's disastrously chucktastic backcourt.

Because were scared of the risk of not being able to sign him. Ernie would rather go for the sure thing.

I'm almost hoping for the Okafor & 3rd for Ilyasova & filler move goes through. Ernie would basically be sabotaging his own future and would have accomplished the impossible. He would have somehow made the team worst this offseason even though we had the 3rd pick and the ability to retain all the key pieces from last year.

[deneem4]

Another thing this is a weak draft . And for those who are saying Ilsoyva is not worth it than thats 100% wrong this guy was a better rebounder than okefor and nene and avg to about 13-17 ppg and O hes also healthy. He also was the best player on a **** team and if Wall and our FO wants a PF who can shoot from mid range and hit 3s than why not do it? we need a offense our D will survive without a Ariza and or Nene or okefor . If you guys watch the Bucs or learn more of them than you would know the players we are getting plays good D too.


i think people just wanna see a Gtown guy come in which I would too but lets face facts we are better off next year hoping a much better prospect comes along. Its also not easy finding a PF who can shoot pretty good either so i don't see why the big No's this guy with Wall can end up having a career here it would honestly not only open up for Solva but for Wall as well ! it would be a nightmare possibly!.

Actually there's a great PF prospect there just waiting for us that can shoot, rebound, AND that has elite athletics - Anthony Bennet. We are better off drafting him.

Or signing jj hickson....a pf who can shoot and rebound with great athletics and no need to develop or chance to be a bust, who jus posted a dbl dbl average for the season, young and under 7mil...

And we have nene signig milsap without moving him is a dumbass decision...

Same with last yr...we didnt go after ersan because we had nene and figured he was gonna be healthy so instead, we did the okariza, considering we needed a center and sf...

You want a bennet sign hickson,
You want a porter trade for chandler parson or jimmy butler or iman shumpert or klay thompson or sefolosha
You want an ersan....ummm...sign/trade for ____________(any suggestions? )

[mlloyd10]

exactly...this is the same team that traded Tobias Harris to the Magic for a 3 month rental of Reddick. We NEED to be fleecing them...something like Seraphin, Singleton, Jan, both 2nds, and the rights to Tomas should work or just Ariza and both 2nds.

Interesting. Maybe we can get Ersan on the cheap if Milwaukee really just wants to take their frontcourt in a different direction. Ariza would certainly help them at SF. And we could also take Moute off their hands if it meant keeping the #3.

Ariza+Singleton+38 for Ilyasova+Moute?

I'd even take Gooden instead of Moute if they included the #15.

That trade is horrible. Ariza does nothing for us. He would be just a stop gap.

[rockymac52]

exactly...this is the same team that traded Tobias Harris to the Magic for a 3 month rental of Reddick. We NEED to be fleecing them...something like Seraphin, Singleton, Jan, both 2nds, and the rights to Tomas should work or just Ariza and both 2nds.

Interesting. Maybe we can get Ersan on the cheap if Milwaukee really just wants to take their frontcourt in a different direction. Ariza would certainly help them at SF. And we could also take Moute off their hands if it meant keeping the #3.

Ariza+Singleton+38 for Ilyasova+Moute?

I'd even take Gooden instead of Moute if they included the #15.

That trade is horrible. Ariza does nothing for us. He would be just a stop gap.

I agree with you on that trade, but in general, here's what you have to remember that most Bucks fans are forgetting... the reason you are open to trading Ilyasova in the first place is because he's become somewhat of a stop gap for you. He's good, but not great, but you don't consider him a part of your future big man rotation. AKA he's a stop gap. You guys are trying to sell Ilyasova as a very good player but then you're turning around and saying you don't want him on your team. So which is it?

[mlloyd10]

Interesting. Maybe we can get Ersan on the cheap if Milwaukee really just wants to take their frontcourt in a different direction. Ariza would certainly help them at SF. And we could also take Moute off their hands if it meant keeping the #3.

Ariza+Singleton+38 for Ilyasova+Moute?

I'd even take Gooden instead of Moute if they included the #15.

That trade is horrible. Ariza does nothing for us. He would be just a stop gap.

I agree with you on that trade, but in general, here's what you have to remember that most Bucks fans are forgetting... the reason you are open to trading Ilyasova in the first place is because he's become somewhat of a stop gap for you. He's good, but not great, but you don't consider him a part of your future big man rotation. AKA he's a stop gap. You guys are trying to sell Ilyasova as a very good player but then you're turning around and saying you don't want him on your team. So which is it?

We are selling high on a player that's just about to reach his prime. We have never did this before and have been screwed numerous of times. The Tobias trade we believe is the straw that broke the camels back

[ReasonablySober]

Just popping over from the Bucks board.

I don't have favorite players, but I do have a couple guys I enjoy arguing for, and Ilyasova's probably the top guy on the list. I think he's a sensational player and criminally underrated. So I'll offer my perspective over here. It's not meant to necessarily convince you that a deal should be made; I'll just present some numbers and observations and let you guys make of it what you will.

The first thing is there's a misconception that Ilyasova only started producing last spring, got hot, and subsequently got paid for three months of production. The fact is outside of his rookie year as a 19 year old, he's always been an above average producer on a per/minute basis. Every minute he's been on the court is a minute you're getting good positional defense, solid rebounding and smart, largely efficient offense.

What's happened in the last year and a half is he's seen a commitment to keeping him in the lineup night in and night out. On February 1st of 2012 he got his first 30+ minute game. From that game until the end of the season he averaged 30 mpg, 15.5 ppg and 9.7 rpg. You'll notice that those numbers are actually a little better than his career per 36. Instead of his numbers dropping on a per-36 basis, they went up.

At the start of the 2012-2013 the Bucks had a lame-duck coach who started dicking with player roles and minutes. Ilyasova saw more games in the teens for minutes (six) than he did in the 30s (three) over the first month of the season. Without a role, his play suffered. When Skiles was canned, the first move Boylan made was getting Ilyasova back in the lineup and getting minutes. The results under Boylan:

43 games:
30 mpg
16.1 ppg
8.2 rpg
46% 3FG%
57.6 TS%

It got even better once Redick, another smart basketball player on a team of idiots, and his numbers jumped to 17/9 with crazy efficiency. This, despite playing with the two dumbest guards in the league.

Ilyasova is a guy who will consistently get you 17+ points and 9+ rebounds if given starter minutes. He'll hit from an insane percentage from outside, and he doesn't take dumb shots. He'll take charges, sit picks and play good team defense. In short, he'll play winning basketball on one of the great bargain deals in the entire league.

I, personally, don't think it's likely that a player from this class will be as good as Ilyasova. I think there's a chance it happens, I just don't see it as a good chance. I definitely don't it being the case in the next four to five years.