Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust

[montestewart]

If the trade for Ilyasova (or Anderson or similar) happens, and Vesely is still around another year, try him in stretches at SF next to a great 3P shooting PF.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Repost from 3/28/13

Took a look at the "What Happened Vesely" question over at the blog.

Went looking for some historical precedent and...couldn't find any. Players don't look "decent" as a rookie and then enter catastrophic suckitude in their second season. I'm open to, "Hey how 'bout..." thoughts.

Guesses: He misses his original hottie GF. They broke up. Jan hates the NBA game with strong brothers hitting him. Total loss of confidence. He has role confusion from playing C and PF instead of playing SF.

When Jan first arrived, he displayed a great deal of swagger. Nene's arrival did not negatively impact Jan. Getting moved down the depth chart, initially when Singleton became the backup PF was significant. Whatever happened in practice is probably significant. Playing behind Okafor and also Seraphin and Booker was significant.

I think Vesely got shoved back down the depth chart and he has struggled to find a comfort zone ever since. He's a role player who needs minutes and to play off of other players. Vesely depends on continuity more than other players. Last season, there was quite a bit of cohesiveness between Vesely, Seraphin, and Wall at the end of the season. This season, Vesely has not been in a regular rotation.

I think his problems are 95% confidence-related. He might also dislike his role with the Wizards. Vesely was a big name in Europe and I think he's bound to return sooner than later.

The guy does not like his role.

The Wizards have asked him to change in order to do something he was not drafted to do.

Flip is long gone and so should be Vesely to a team with better player development and smarter coaching and management. Jan is an energizer who played well at the end of 2011-2012 in 15 consecutive starts. He is a horrific FT shooter and at times plays as if he's in a panic-stricken state. He seems to lack any resolve, but at the same time he's getting his butt kicked by the likes of Okafor, Booker, Seraphin, and Nene; and he will NEVER play SF on a team with Webster and Ariza playing the position. He's asked to beef up to be like Roy Hibbert, when his best move was dunking off of one power dribble when covered by a Euro SF.

The Wizards are idiots and if you wonder why I say so Jan Vesely is prime example. YES, the Okafor/Ariza deal did exactly what I thought the day it went down with respect to the development of drafted players Seraphin, Vesely, and Singleton.

At this point just trade Jan Vesely for a bag of magic beans, or for the same thing the Wizards got for Jordan Crawford.

[dangermouse]

Vesely at SF would be a 5-minute thing, depending on a match up. His role would be pass, rebound, do garbage stuff.

So.... the same role he had this year, just at a different position?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If the trade for Ilyasova (or Anderson or similar) happens, and Vesely is still around another year, try him in stretches at SF next to a great 3P shooting PF.

monte, it seems to me that would be the terribly bright thing to do.

Also, draft some white guys who can play. Any of Zeller, Olynyk, Len and/or Wolters would very likely revive the career and return on investment in Jan Vesely. (EDITED: Zeller actually takes his spot completely. Olynyk, Len and Wolters seem like they'd mesh better with Jan because they are not solely mobile players.) Camaraderie, encouragement, rapport, just guys working together who are not trying to bust the guy down would help. Jan is the deer in the headlights and I know what hazing is like from both prior military as well as my experience in a fraternity way back in the day.

The problems Vesely are having are internalized and more to do with mindset than ability. Randy Wittman wants something different and has his own agenda, in addition to wanting to see Vesely succeed. Jan is not a flexible guy but like anyone he just needs more confidence to maximize his potential.

If the Wizards don't acquire an Ilyasova or draft an Olynyk or Wolters; then I hope to hell they trade Vesely to Minnesota or San Antonio, where the guy will develop into a useful player who lasts 7-10 NBA seasons. (Right now I think he'll be back in Europe in 2 years, if not sooner.) He's a physical freak with a high motor and a decent basketball IQ. I do believe he's smarter than the Wizards.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Vesely at SF would be a 5-minute thing, depending on a match up. His role would be pass, rebound, do garbage stuff.

So.... the same role he had this year, just at a different position?

Yes, next to a brawnier group of dudes and playing with John Wall at times.

When he was a rookie he actually played quite well with Kevin Seraphin. KS actually passed to JV and vice verso.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I've posted many times the Wizards drafted a guy who played SF in Europe and they brought him over here and asked him to change. I posted below on 12/1/12...

Yeah, you nailed it. What if instead of asking him to go full "neck fat" Blatche on the weight gain and screwing up his shot, they instead had Vesely work on his handle? I don't know that he would have played well enough to justify the pick, but he sure as heck wouldn't have been the putrid mess we saw this past year.

They took raw chicken and turned it into "chicken shyt"; when they could have prepared him thoughtfully, carefully, and come up with tasty, chicken salad. Vesely just got thrown into the mix haphazardly. Typical EG-style player development.

JV should be professional enough to work on his FTs and his handle, as well as to do one zillion Mikan drills. I don't think he works hard or, his mind is shot. His mental game seems mighty weak, and that's not on the Wizards. (Though a sports psychologist should be on call with this guy IMHO.) Still, asking him to bang in the post is just silly. His game is speed, transition, in-your-face, demoralizing dunks. Vesely is at best a defensive nuisance and a matchup nightmare. His QUICKNESS was a strength ... before he was turned into mess.

[sfam]

Vesely totally lost his quickness last year. Perhaps it was the weight gain, but I'm guessing it was probably more the complete loss of confidence.

And a lot of this certainly falls on Vesely. The Wizards seem to be overtly screwing up their players, but its on the players to take charge of their own development, ESPECIALLY once its clear they do not have an aly in management. If Ves hates the role carved out for him, he has to develop himself enough to make SF, or perhaps PF work. It sounds though like Vesely may be done with listening to the direciton the Wizards have in store for him.

[leswizards]

http://www.truthaboutit.net/2013/06/jan-vesely-on-mental-toughness-team-chemistry-and-coffee-after-practice-interview-translation.html#more-29589

Truly sad.

Am I missing something? What is sad about that Q&A?

Granted, it's sad that Vesely is a bust, but I'm not seeing why people are labeling him a quitter. He is saying all the right things.

EDIT: Nevermind. Just read the twitter feed. His quotes there aren't so good.

Meh. The twitter feed is a paraphrasing of a translation. Too far removed from the original source for me to get worked up over.

[nate33]

Oh dear God, not this again.

Vesely is being asked to play PF because HE LACKS THE SKILLS TO PLAY SMALL FORWARD!!! You can't play him there because it WON'T WORK. How many teams in this league can function offensively with a small forward who can't shoot or dribble? The answer is ZERO!!!

[montestewart]

Oh dear God, not this again.

Vesely is being asked to play PF because HE LACKS THE SKILLS TO PLAY SMALL FORWARD!!! You can't play him there because it WON'T WORK. How many teams in this league can function offensively with a small forward who can't shoot or dribble? The answer is ZERO!!!

In a traditional setting, I agree, but in short stretches, I could see it working a little differently if an Ilyasova/Anderson-type high % 3P shooting PF pulled bigs away from the basket and Vesely could capitalize on mismatches close in or kick out to the shooter. On D, I've seen him successfully cover some SFs. It's not a "pencil Vesely into the SF rotation" but it could work with some matchups if he's still around. I don't see his added bulk really helping his game at C or even PF, just looking for any use possible.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Oh dear God, not this again.

Vesely is being asked to play PF because HE LACKS THE SKILLS TO PLAY SMALL FORWARD!!! You can't play him there because it WON'T WORK. How many teams in this league can function offensively with a small forward who can't shoot or dribble? The answer is ZERO!!!

What kind of skills did Derrick McKey have? (Read style and career section of wiki)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derrick_McKey

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... lse-1.html

Precedent: There have been near seven-foot SFs who did not have perimeter skills. Derrick McKey played on several playoff teams as a. 6' 10" wing defender. He passed very well and virtually never attempted a three. He was versatile enough to play PF or C, but SF was his best position.

In 2004-2005, the Wizards advanced to round two in the Eastern Conference Playoffs starting Arenas, Hughes, Jared Jeffries (6'11", 230 lbs -- around the same as Vesely), Jamison, and Haywood. Jeffries played next to a stretch four. The Wizards won in a non-traditional manner. Vesely can definitely be utilized similarly to Jeffries. It just takes an open-minded approach. EJ even played Jefffries at SG a time or two.

A lot of tall guys have played SF. These guys all could shoot: Pau Gasol, Kevin Garnett, Robert Horry, Walter McCarty, Toni Kukoc, Hedo Turkoglu, Steve Novak. I think Vesely can defend as well as any of them except young KG. I bet he rebounds and passe better than most or at least on par. Vesely is a player in the Noah mold who is not quite suited to play C full-time, but in spots can play SF, PF, and a transition-friendly C in open court game situations.

I believe Vesely can best be utilized like McKey and Jeffries.

[tontoz]

In his career McKey attempted 642 three pointers (one per game) and shot 78% from the ft line for his career. Vesely struggles to hit the rim on jumpers/foul shots.

[Dat2U]

I'm not sure why CCJ keeps riding this Vesely train. Dude you literally picked one of the worst players in professional basketball to believe in. If he's not back overseas after next season, I'll be surprised. I have no hope for his NBA future. He probably has no hope for his NBA future as well. At this point, its just about the Wizards declining his option and Vesely sulking on the bench next year biding his time until he can go back home.

Frankly, I don't think he's even worth the discussion, other than the fact how in the world did a front office unamimously select a guy that was an obvious candidate to be a bust to many here before he was even drafted.

[nate33]

Oh dear God, not this again.

Vesely is being asked to play PF because HE LACKS THE SKILLS TO PLAY SMALL FORWARD!!! You can't play him there because it WON'T WORK. How many teams in this league can function offensively with a small forward who can't shoot or dribble? The answer is ZERO!!!

What kind of skills did Derrick McKey have? (Read style and career section of wiki)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derrick_McKey

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... lse-1.html

Precedent: There have been near seven-foot SFs who did not have perimeter skills. Derrick McKey played on several playoff teams as a. 6' 10" wing defender. He passed very well and virtually never attempted a three. He was versatile enough to play PF or C, but SF was his best position.

In 2004-2005, the Wizards advanced to round two in the Eastern Conference Playoffs starting Arenas, Hughes, Jared Jeffries (6'11", 230 lbs -- around the same as Vesely), Jamison, and Haywood. Jeffries played next to a stretch four. The Wizards won in a non-traditional manner. Vesely can definitely be utilized similarly to Jeffries. It just takes an open-minded approach. EJ even played Jefffries at SG a time or two.

A lot of tall guys have played SF. These guys all could shoot: Pau Gasol, Kevin Garnett, Robert Horry, Walter McCarty, Toni Kukoc, Hedo Turkoglu, Steve Novak. I think Vesely can defend as well as any of them except young KG. I bet he rebounds and passe better than most or at least on par. Vesely is a player in the Noah mold who is not quite suited to play C full-time, but in spots can play SF, PF, and a transition-friendly C in open court game situations.

I believe Vesely can best be utilized like McKey and Jeffries.

As tontoz pointed out, McKey was a competent shooter. During his peak years, he averaged 16 points per game and shot 84% from the FT line. Vesely is not even in the same zip code as a basketball player. Comparing the two is absurd. You may as well be comparing Vesely to Glen Rice.

Jeffries is the best case scenaro for Vesely, and Vesely is a far cry from reaching even that. Jeffries had a better handle than Vesely ever will. The only reason Jeffries at SG/SF worked at all was because his team had deadly 3-point shooting from the PG position and the PF position - a luxury that we don't have. If you want a better example of what Jeffries would look like on a conventional team, look no further than his career in NY. He was a terrible player in NY. After years of fumbling around trying to be useful, he finally ended up settling into a role where he was a barely competent role player... at power forward.

[Rafael122]

Here's my thing, why do guys like Wall and Beal (and maybe Booker) seem to get it, but guys like Young, McGee, and now Vesely don't? They would rather put the blame on someone else for their failures. You read all this talk about how the Wizards should have given Vesely a shooting coach. McGee said the same thing about a big man coach. You're a grown man playing in the NBA, making millions of dollars every year. Wall sought out a shooting coach on his own and put in the time, he wasn't given one or handed one. Wall developed on his own in spite of Wizards management so why can't Vesely do the same? I don't get it. I think mental makeup should play a huge role when it comes to drafting players (another reason why Porter should be drafted over Bennett). Just seems we've been drafting kids who need someone to hold their hand for them too.

[Nivek]

Reading the comments Prada posted, I have a few thoughts:

Re: "Bulking up" -- Who knows what the Wizards actually told him to do. I'm really not a front office defender, but having talked with these guys in the past, I do find it hard to believe they would have asked Vesely to gain weight. More likely, they would have asked him to get stronger. My guess is that 260 was a weight they figured he'd get to in time, IF he followed the strength and conditioning program and followed proper nutrition.

Re: Changing his shot -- it needed to be changed. The key with ANY skill is practice. I don't see any comments from Vesely about taking a thousand jumpers a day using the new form and still sucking. The essential ingredient in building a skill is repetition. That's perhaps even more important when rebuilding a skill or learning a new way to do something.

As for playing Vesely at SF -- nate and tontoz have it right. Vesely doesn't have the skills for it. A team with a prime Arenas, Butler and Jamison could get away with it because Arenas was an overwhelming offensive threat, Jamison was dangerous from everywhere, and Butler was a quality scoring option as well.

If Vesely wants to be an NBA player, he needs to put in some long, hard work somewhere -- on his body so he can play PF or on his game so he can play SF.

[hands11]

I've posted many times the Wizards drafted a guy who played SF in Europe and they brought him over here and asked him to change. I posted below on 12/1/12...

Yeah, you nailed it. What if instead of asking him to go full "neck fat" Blatche on the weight gain and screwing up his shot, they instead had Vesely work on his handle? I don't know that he would have played well enough to justify the pick, but he sure as heck wouldn't have been the putrid mess we saw this past year.

They took raw chicken and turned it into "chicken shyt"; when they could have prepared him thoughtfully, carefully, and come up with tasty, chicken salad. Vesely just got thrown into the mix haphazardly. Typical EG-style player development.

JV should be professional enough to work on his FTs and his handle, as well as to do one zillion Mikan drills. I don't think he works hard or, his mind is shot. His mental game seems mighty weak, and that's not on the Wizards. (Though a sports psychologist should be on call with this guy IMHO.) Still, asking him to bang in the post is just silly. His game is speed, transition, in-your-face, demoralizing dunks. Vesely is at best a defensive nuisance and a matchup nightmare. His QUICKNESS was a strength ... before he was turned into mess.

That has been my advice.

I find nothing shocking about his comments.

Ves was all about running up and down the court and the highlight dunk. That was his game. What they want him to do here he doesn't seem to have much interest in doing. Its not what he find fun.

Ves has a lot to get straight in his head when he returns to playing ball over seas. From the interviews I read, while they are looking forward to him returning over there, he isn't going to just walk onto the team into his old role.

Ves needs to realize that what he was doing over there is not a full time position in the NBA. Here you have to play a position. And that means you need to develop skills.

If he wanted to be a SF, then he needed to be able to shoot the ball and have better handles.
If not, you have to play in the post and they mean you have to get stronger.

Ves's skill set is more suited for the 2nd. He is a good passer and he is long and athletic.

Vesely's problem is Vesely. Get you ass in the gym and fix your Fing shot. Then you can complain about where and how you are played. I don't care how they changed your shot. I'm sure they showed you a better more reliable way of doing it then you had. Now do it over and over 10,000 times and it will feel as natural as your old shot. Only it will go in more. Then you can have fun again.

End of story.

[TGW]

Amen Hands. Preach brother.

[Ruzious]

Reading the comments Prada posted, I have a few thoughts:

Re: "Bulking up" -- Who knows what the Wizards actually told him to do. I'm really not a front office defender, but having talked with these guys in the past, I do find it hard to believe they would have asked Vesely to gain weight. More likely, they would have asked him to get stronger. My guess is that 260 was a weight they figured he'd get to in time, IF he followed the strength and conditioning program and followed proper nutrition.

Re: Changing his shot -- it needed to be changed. The key with ANY skill is practice. I don't see any comments from Vesely about taking a thousand jumpers a day using the new form and still sucking. The essential ingredient in building a skill is repetition. That's perhaps even more important when rebuilding a skill or learning a new way to do something.

As for playing Vesely at SF -- nate and tontoz have it right. Vesely doesn't have the skills for it. A team with a prime Arenas, Butler and Jamison could get away with it because Arenas was an overwhelming offensive threat, Jamison was dangerous from everywhere, and Butler was a quality scoring option as well.

If Vesely wants to be an NBA player, he needs to put in some long, hard work somewhere -- on his body so he can play PF or on his game so he can play SF.

And if anything - he came in to his second season in significantly worse shape and with no noticable significant improvement in skills. I think the Wizards owe us an explanation as to why that happened. As fans, we're left with the memory of the 6th pick in the draft (and Seraphin) ending the prior season well and with promise of good things to come, and then... they revert to being legitimately lousy NBA players. With Seraphin - it can be explained that the NBA adjusted to him. With Vesely, that's not the case. He started the season looking far less athletic than he did the previous season, and there wasn't much for the NBA to adjust to with him, anyway - He's an energy player.

So, why did Vesely come in out of shape, and why should we expect that to change? And if it was Vesely being lazy, why should we expect that to change? Unless we're given answers to these questions, the assumption has to be that he's a bust.

[Upper Decker]

I have no basis to substantiate my opinion of Vesely other than how he performs on the floor because I don't really keep tabs on him. That said, it seems like he works very little on his game, if at all. When he was drafted his main weaknesses were 1) shooting, 2) ball handling, 3) FT shooting, and 4) a general lack of physical strength. It appears Vesely has regressed in all four of these area's.

Vesely's comments in the Czech article are even more troubling because it's a clear indication that Vesely just doesn't get it. A position doesn't exist in the NBA for 6'11'' SF's who do nothing but fill the lane on fast breaks. He's a poor defender on the perimeter, he's a poor defender on the interior, he's a poor fit everywhere on offense. Literally the only possible way for him to ever be a contributor in the NBA is if he get's substantially stronger and models his game after Tiago Splitter.