Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VIII

[jivelikenice]

Consiglieri, you do realize that Otto tested better than Kawhi athletically in every category save the 3/4 court sprint, right?

[Dat2U]

From the last thread, Consiglieri wrote in reference to dealing for MKG:

So would I. I wonder what could get it done? I know we wouldn't be smart enough to do it, but man, I'd swing a deal for MKG in a second if there was a way to make it work. Problem with your scenario is that it definitely sounds as if the trade would be contingent on getting Porter, or some elite upside capable 3.

I think MKG will probably be a better player than Porter in a vacuum. Porter couldn't have gone second overall in last year's class, that's for sure.

But I don't think MKG would be a better fit for the Wizards than Porter because he can't shoot. You can't put two streak shooters or sub par shooters on the perimeter together without running into spacing issues. Particularly in the postseason. Even the mighty Heat had huge issues playing Wade and LeBron on the floor together. It's been a constant issue for Chicago, good as they are. And it was an issue for Indiana. You're creating a counterproductive offensive situation playing Wall and MKG together by making it harder for Wall to do his thing. You'd be better off playing Webster at SF on offense.

I don't think we can entertain adding any SF that isn't a credible shooter. The defense has to guard him when he doesn't have the ball.

It's not ideal, but it's workable IMO. It just means a stretch 4 or 5 is mandatory. If you can have a lineup of Okafor & Nene that's successful then you can replace either with a stretch big and MKG at the 3.

Plus if Wall shoots like he did over the last two months of the season, spacing becomes even less of an issue even if MKG never becomes a reliable perimeter threat.

I'm still high on MKG and think he's a helluva prospect. Charlotte is not the ideal spot for him with so little talent to help hide MKG's defiencies, I think he'd be really good in DC if you could pair him with a Ilyasova, Anderson type.

[Soup's Uncle]

I think I'd feel a lot better about taking Bennett if in the days leading up to the draft, he got himself into ridiculous shape. Yes, you can still work out when hurt, and watch what you eat. He could have gotten cut, and proven to teams that h has the desire, even when hurt (RG3 anyone?) to stay in, or even improve your body as much as you can. Instead, he gained 20 pounds.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing he did that, I just think that you are about to be drafted. You should want to go as high as possible. Why pack on 20 lbs of flab? Do you just not care?

I know you guys are going to tear me up for saying this. "He's hurt" blah blah blah. I know he's injured. But you can't tell me that every single player with an injury baloons up 20 lbs like it's nothing. IF he is dedicated to his craft as a basketball player, I'd think he'd want to paint the picture that he cares. And with a guy with a questionable motor, this all but eliminates him from contention for me.

[TGW]

Other than rebounding, Leonard had nothing on Porter coming out of college. According to combine numbers, Porter is the more physically gifted player (taller by 1.5 inches, higher vertical jumps, more bench reps). Leonard has the freakish wingspan and standing reach but Porter measured just below Leonard in those regards.

The only issue I have with Porter is his ball handling. Will he be able to attack the rim from the perimeter against an NBA defender? Other than that, he's the one prospect with the least amount of questions IMO.

[Dat2U]

Consiglieri, you do realize that Otto tested better than Kawhi athletically in every category save the 3/4 court sprint, right?

Otto just doesn't look like an athlete to many people. He just looks skinny and awkward and that sticks in folks minds. Greg Monroe went through the same thing a few years ago. I was one of his biggest fans on here and I kept hearing how unathletic and awkward he looked any many here thought he'd really struggle in the NBA.

IMO skill/intelligence outweighs athleticism. But the thing is, Porter isn't even a bad athlete. He's a solid athlete for his position, but he's just not explosive. His first step isn't that great but his athleticism won't keep him from being a very good player. He may not be that superstar, elite level SF that we'd all love, but I feel pretty confident he's going to be top 5 at his position for a long time.

To steal a phrase that's been used before, Porter is going to be "the straw that stirs the drink".

[sfam]

EG has a history of thinking short term. He may be thinking that the Wizards are fine at the 3 since they already have Ariza and he may be confident of resigning Webster. Given that, I think there is a good chance Bennett is the pick.

I disagree that Ariza/Webster should even factor in to the decision at all, but this is EG we are talking about.

I think Porter should be the pick. As others have said there are several things that have to go right in order for Bennett to be the right pick.

Michael Lee ‏@MrMichaelLee 1m
Ernie Grunfeld: “We’re going to take the player that we feel is going to help us the most long term.” http://wapo.st/19tjMv1 #wizards

By him adding the words "long term", does that mean Alex Len? Considering that Porter and even Bennett should be productive rookies (if one gains weight and the other loses weight) - why would he make a point of saying long term?

Are you honestly parsing EG's words for truth? I doubt anything he says at this point matters. Anything EG does, including trading the pick for an expiring he can argue that it was a long term move.

[Soup's Uncle]

I think I'd take Porter. Although I wouldn't balk at taking Oladipo. I think Oladipo ends up being the best player in this draft down the road. Even with Beal. Bring one of them off the bench. Or go 3 guards.

[Dat2U]

Other than rebounding, Leonard had nothing on Porter coming out of college. According to combine numbers, Porter is the more physically gifted player (taller by 1.5 inches, higher vertical jumps, more bench reps). Leonard has the freakish wingspan and standing reach but Porter measured just below Leonard in those regards.

The only issue I have with Porter is his ball handling. Will he be able to attack the rim from the perimeter against an NBA defender? Other than that, he's the one prospect with the least amount of questions IMO.

His ballhandling will need to improve. It's okay, it's gotten a lot better since his freshman season but because he doesn't have the elite 1st step, he'll really need to develop a high skill level to create space & opportunities off the dribble. Moreso, he'll definitely need to clean up the form on his shot and becoming more comfortable shooting off the bounce. His improvement so far in his career makes me believe this is all possible for him to do.

[Ruzious]

By him adding the words "long term", does that mean Alex Len? Considering that Porter and even Bennett should be productive rookies (if one gains weight and the other loses weight) - why would he make a point of saying long term?

Could mean any one of a number of things. Could mean that they're not going to pass on Noel if he's there just because he's out until Christmas. Could mean they're taking Giannis Adetokunbo

Yeah, I think he'll pick Giannis and stash him in Romania.

[AFM]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwoesviGYI0&feature=c4-overview&list=UUja8sZ2T4ylIqjggA1Zuukg[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYImARHPz3k[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9BxT64hzC8[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TOKhe3bH4I[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX-wI8__bE0[/youtube]

[fishercob]

Consiglieri, you do realize that Otto tested better than Kawhi athletically in every category save the 3/4 court sprint, right?

Otto just doesn't look like an athlete to many people. He just looks skinny and awkward and that sticks in folks minds. Greg Monroe went through the same thing a few years ago. I was one of his biggest fans on here and I kept hearing how unathletic and awkward he looked any many here thought he'd really struggle in the NBA.

IMO skill/intelligence outweighs athleticism. But the thing is, Porter isn't even a bad athlete. He's a solid athlete for his position, but he's just not explosive. His first step isn't that great but his athleticism won't keep him from being a very good player. He may not be that superstar, elite level SF that we'd all love, but I feel pretty confident he's going to be top 5 at his position for a long time.

To steal a phrase that's been used before, Porter is going to be "the straw that stirs the drink".

This boils down 8 draft threads for me, Dat. To quote Lamar Odom about our dearly departed JaFail Mcgee: "because the game is called basketball, not run and jump."

I want guys who are productive -- on both ends of the floor. I want guys who have demonstrated a work ethic and the ability to improve. I want guys who are smart on the floor and in the film room. I want guys help their teams win.

[sfam]

Reading the end of the last draft thread, I think Bennett's strength as an ISO player has been greatly overrated. His handles and ability to create shots is very solid for a 250 Ibs but his handle is not elite. It's very good for a big man but only average for your typical SF. Plus if your an unwilling passer like Bennett is, a team can't fully take advantage of those skills when defenses key on him.

Bennett's handles are an obvious, self evident strength. When I read arguments saying they aren't, it says to me that person has lost objectivity because of whatever agenda they've got or they never actually watched him play. He successfully attacked multiple defenders with his dribble more often than any forward in this class and he's got better slashing ability than some of the top guards in the class.

There is no, Bennett's handles are effective, caveat: for a 250 pounder. They're effective, period, in part because he's 240 pounds. Why do you think LeBron is such an effective slasher? How often does he cross people over or use liquid sizeup and hesitation moves to break his man's ankles and get around him? Almost never. He doesn't have to, he bulls his way to the rim using sheer speed and strength because he can. Bennett can get rolling down hill too and just bull his way to the rim and finish over people. Strength matters as much as speed or skill for slashers.

Bennett's not selfish either. UNLV was a free shooting team of gunners, you can point to his guards and teammates being unwilling passers. When you've got Katin Reinhardt and Bryce Jones chucking away for low efficiency, there is the source of your efficiency and ball movement issues. Bennett was the top scoring option and finished the looks he got with excellent efficiency. That was his role.

First off, you need to take LeBron out the equation, because him & Bennett aren't in the same ballpark on any level. You kill your own arguments when invoking his name as a comparable standard, it can't be taken seriously because it's not comparable. It's like comparing apples and oranges.

Secondly, Bennett is a straight line slasher. As you mentioned, he doesn't really show any advanced dribbling moves to create space or get into the lane. That's fine in the Mountain West but in the NBA you can't bull over or explode by every defender, even with your example, LeBron effectively uses multiple moves to attack off the bounce. LeBron is not a straight line slasher. LeBron handles are elite. He can get the rack any number of ways other than just bulling people over.

Thirdly, you can make the claim Bennett is not selfish but what is this actually based on? Your objectivity??? The numbers show that passing is not something he accustomed to doing. Maybe he acquires that trait at the next level, maybe he doesn't. But he played like passing was only a last resort, I don't know how you dismiss it by blaming his teammates.

I think you're grasping here, Dat. There's enough to knock and discount Bennett for without trying to make a case that isn't there. Bennett's handles are elite, and he often seems to move thru traffic like butter. The straight line thing just doesn't hold. Bash him for defense, his injuries, his love of ihop, his choice of school, whatever. But going after his handles and driving ability makes no sense. Those are clearly a solid strength - something Bennett offers that nobody else at his size in this draft does. Yes, he has risks, but he also has some elite skills - perhaps all-star worthy skills if he develops right. This is why he's considered a top 5 prospect by most and is why the Wizards, who by the numbers are a truly sucky offensive team, are considering him.

[Ruzious]

By him adding the words "long term", does that mean Alex Len? Considering that Porter and even Bennett should be productive rookies (if one gains weight and the other loses weight) - why would he make a point of saying long term?

Are you honestly parsing EG's words for truth? I doubt anything he says at this point matters. Anything EG does, including trading the pick for an expiring he can argue that it was a long term move.

I'd actually respect EG throwing people like me (idiots, as Cramer put it) off the scent with code words. I don't want him to be transparent in this poker game.

[pancakes3]

I think the opposite. I don't think he needs to open up new areas of his game but rather really hone in on what he does well. He needs to work on his spot up shooting to finish kick-outs. Nobody was clamoring for Bruce Bowen to create space and opportunities off the dribble.

[DCZards]

Wally Szczerbiak just said on 106.7 that Otto is the best fit but Anthony Bennett has top 3 star potential in the draft. He wants Otto but thinks Bennett is the star!

I think Wally has it right. I'd like to see the Zards draft Porter but I wouldn't be disappointed if they picked Bennett. Bennett has his share of flaws (effort on D, maturity, size for a PF, possible weight issues) but his upside trumps Otto's, imo.

I'm betting that a lot of the posters stressing out over Bennett's "red flags" are the same ones who were overly concerned about Drummond's so-called red flags.

[Rafael122]

Wally Szczerbiak just said on 106.7 that Otto is the best fit but Anthony Bennett has top 3 star potential in the draft. He wants Otto but thinks Bennett is the star!

I think Wally has it right. I'd like to see the Zards draft Porter but I wouldn't be disappointed if they picked Bennett. Bennett has his share of flaws (effort on D, maturity, size for a PF, possible weight issues) but his upside trumps Otto's, imo.

I'm betting that a lot of the posters stressing out over Bennett's "red flags" are the same ones who were overly concerned about Drummond's so-called red flags.

Drummond wasn't even on my radar last year. It was Beal the whole way through.

[FAH1223]

Chris Sheridian is on 106.7 right now and he is supremely confident the Wizards will take Bennett and they think Bennett is a "beast" and will also be a center peice with Wiggins on the Canadian National Team.

Guys, I want to vomit.

[DCZards]

Drummond wasn't even on my radar last year. It was Beal the whole way through.

Yup, I was a Bealite as well last year. But I also posted around this time last year that I thought Drummond could turn out to be the best player in the draft. Davis is probably better...but not by a lot.

[TGW]

Bennett's handles are elite? Well, I guess if Jan Vesely is the benchmark, then I guess his handles may be elite.

In the NBA, it's not even close. Put down the pom poms down...sheesh.

Edit: And if Bennett is the pick, I won't be upset. He's an absolute dog defensively, but offensively he's the most complete player in the draft. Maybe they can get him to compete on the defensive end, but offensively you can't go wrong with Bennett.

[sfam]

I think the opposite. I don't think he needs to open up new areas of his game but rather really hone in on what he does well. He needs to work on his spot up shooting to finish kick-outs. Nobody was clamoring for Bruce Bowen to create space and opportunities off the dribble.

Nobody was draftimg Bruce Bowen #3 overall. In fact nobody drafted Bowen. Just sayin...