Wizards Summer League 2013 - Mini Camp 8th Games July 13

[payitforward]

I completely disagree that Reddick was a highly valued commodity. After all, Milwaukee just let him walk and got nothing for him. He had some positive value, and got a mid first round pick who hadn't played much back in return. We had similar assets (Jamison, McGee, Butler), each of whom had similar value to Reddick and combined clearly had more value, and all we ended up with was Nene and his contract. Of course the value Reddick got back was enhanced because Orlando's GM can judge talent (Harris) and made a good trade, but that's a positive testament to their GM.

They did have Dwight, but look at the other teams in the trade--they walked away with nothing. A lot of teams who have lost superstars walked away with not much, or walked away with veterans who aren't suited for a rebuild. Orlando got two decent prospects, who have since outperformed their trade value at the time (+2 more for their scouting), and set the rebuilding ship headed the right direction immediately.

We were in a similar situation, and we traded the #5 for Randy Foye. It was time to rebuild, or at least take the first steps towards rebuilding, and our GM totally blew it. In the past five years, he has had a grand total of zero trades where he got more value than our players were worth, or the players we did get outperformed their value at the time of the trade. Orlando got 3 such players in one year.

Wow, Willbcocks, go easy on this guy -- he's sensitive, he's reactive, he's got a new thesaurus. He keeps trying to carve out a little ray-of-light-sized space where he can agree on all points (Hennigan good, Ernie bad, etc.) but still be saying something different and interesting (like Reddick had a lot of value -- I gave him a pass on that).

He could get upset and put us both on ignore.... Nah, he wouldn't do that. He might miss things we say about him.

Ok, I gotta stop -- DCsOwn, I give up. You really nailed it with that perceptive thing about Howard and all; I'm just gonna lurch on out of here....

[payitforward]

...I applaud Orlando for turning Howard and Reddick into young assets, but it's not that impressive to me.

You see, that's what I'm saying! I always save my applause for unimpressive achievements, and that's why I'm clapping so loud for you here, man.

I mean you are really really right that any GM could have traded away a "highly-valued" asset who turns out to be worth 2 future round two picks in return for an emerging young stud and another outstanding young prospects. I mean that was nothing, trivial. According to you anybody could have done it, and that's why it deserves a round of applause.

Right? Or... something? I mean....

[hands11]

...As for us not having an abundance of young talent. I think Wall, Beal and Otto is pretty abundant and we still need answers on Ves, Kevin and Singleton. That's plenty for now. Two mostly sure things. One rookie top 3 pick who looks to be a all around solid player, and 3 youngs that needs to prove it or lose it this year.... I'm keeping an open mind on Ves, Kevin and Singleton. They deserve that benefit of the doubt in my book.

Your keeping 'an open mind' doesn't make those guys any better than they are.

All that means nothing regarding what I wrote. You lack context which is what I added.

There's your context above. Your context is you are "keeping an open mind." Good for you. "They deserve that". If you say so.

You don't offer any "context," Hands; you're just a fan dreaming up ex post facto justifications that let you hope. Nothing wrong with that, why should there be? But it isn't analysis.

As I said, if healthy we should be good this year. And if we keep our current FO the Magic will lap us soon.[/quote]

All that means nothing regarding what I wrote. You lack context which is what I added. Which you then edited out.

[DCsOwn]

I like Wall, Beal and Porter better than Orlando's core. Given the option to swap those three for Harris, Vujevic, Oladipo, and Harkless (+ their other prospects, who are better than our total scrubs), I wouldn't even consider it.

But Orlando's had one high lottery pick. We've had 4. Their GM has run circles around our GM, who has used his own incompetence as his his primary asset for rebuilding. Our GM can easily find a way to screw up the good thing we have going. Their GM will knock their high lottery pick out of the park next year, swing a trade/FA signing of a great young player, and they'll be the Houston of the East.

Orlando's only had one high lottery pick, but they had an incredible asset in Dwight Howard to seriously galvanize a rebuilding effort and also a highly valued commodity in JJ Reddick (you know, the principal in the deal that shook Eric Bledsoe loose from LA). My point is, and something Payitforward missed to an excruciating degree as he lurched from point to point failing to discern the purpose of the responses that he was replying to, we're crediting their gm with doing a tremendous job (which is perfectly fine) and using their fairly rapid accumulation of assets as a way to bludgeon and indict Ernie. My point was that beyond the fact that we dont need an additional comparative study to impugn the competency of our dolt of a GM, this particular criticism of Ernie centered around the Magic's reshuffle is the intellectual equivalent of jumping a kid in a wheel chair. It's intellectually dishonest and completely gratuitous to compare these two situations because the Orlando situation was completely different than ours, and not in the tripe sense that every situation is different. They had a top 5 player in the world to move and a guy that a year and a half ago Phil Jackson said that he would take in a draft of every existing player to start a franchise. They also had a player, acquired by a separate regime that had tremendous value around the league. They had a spectacular asset to move and another terrific one, that's why they've rebuilt so quickly. That's the point. Anyone can expedite the rebuilding process if theyre selling off elite component pieces for prospects.

Congratulations on your recent purchase of a thesaurus; that's big for you.

Im a Princeton University and Georgetown Law graduate, I'm pretty sure that I can manage without a thesaurus. Definitely appreciative of the fact that you led with that statement though, saved myself the few minutes it would've taken to respond to your rudimentary, snark filled drivel. When you grow out of your amateur Keith Law phase, and we all do, it just takes some of us a little longer than others, I'll be waiting to engage you in legitimate discussion.

"Congratulations on your recent purchase of a thesaurus." The Internet is such a magnificent place.

[DCsOwn]

I completely disagree that Reddick was a highly valued commodity. After all, Milwaukee just let him walk and got nothing for him. He had some positive value, and got a mid first round pick who hadn't played much back in return. We had similar assets (Jamison, McGee, Butler), each of whom had similar value to Reddick and combined clearly had more value, and all we ended up with was Nene and his contract. Of course the value Reddick got back was enhanced because Orlando's GM can judge talent (Harris) and made a good trade, but that's a positive testament to their GM.

They did have Dwight, but look at the other teams in the trade--they walked away with nothing. A lot of teams who have lost superstars walked away with not much, or walked away with veterans who aren't suited for a rebuild. Orlando got two decent prospects, who have since outperformed their trade value at the time (+2 more for their scouting), and set the rebuilding ship headed the right direction immediately.

We were in a similar situation, and we traded the #5 for Randy Foye. It was time to rebuild, or at least take the first steps towards rebuilding, and our GM totally blew it. In the past five years, he has had a grand total of zero trades where he got more value than our players were worth, or the players we did get outperformed their value at the time of the trade. Orlando got 3 such players in one year.

Wow, Willbcocks, go easy on this guy -- he's sensitive, he's reactive, he's got a new thesaurus. He keeps trying to carve out a little ray-of-light-sized space where he can agree on all points (Hennigan good, Ernie bad, etc.) but still be saying something different and interesting (like Reddick had a lot of value -- I gave him a pass on that).

He could get upset and put us both on ignore.... Nah, he wouldn't do that. He might miss things we say about him.

Ok, I gotta stop -- DCsOwn, I give up. You really nailed it with that perceptive thing about Howard and all; I'm just gonna lurch on out of here....

The Internet, such a magnificent place. "Wow, Willbcocks, go easy on this guy...he's got a new thesaurus."

Zing!

[Kanyewest]

Orlando did a good job acquiring young talent in the Howard trade and the Reddick trade. Then again, they did finish the worst record in the NBA. They seem to have talented pieces but I'm not sure how well they fit together. Of course the recipe for their sucess is that they should be pretty bad a secure a top pick in a pretty good draft. Plus Oladipo looks like a solid young player.

But I'm not sure if they are destined to be better than the Wizards at this point. EG really screwed up the 2011 draft but the core of Wall, Beal, and Porter is intriguing going forward. I will be interested to see what the Wizards can do in the 2014 offseason with significant cap space- maybe they attract a big time free agent.

I would like to see what Orlando can do over multiple season stretch rather than getting carried away. For instance, people really liked what New Orleans did last year by creating cap space, signing Ryan Anderson, and their draft picks in Davis. But I haven't liked what they have done lately with the Noel/1st for Holiday and the Tyreke Evans trade. Not to mention that Austin Rivers looks like a bust as bad as Vesley. What Hennigan has done is encouraging but I want to see more and especially how they continue to develop and fit their roster together on the court.

[doclinkin]

P.I.F doing what he does best, making friends. DCsOwn: I like your stuff, keep posting.

[DCsOwn]

P.I.F doing what he does best, making friends. DCsOwn: I like your stuff, keep posting.

Thanks bud. I enjoy this forum, I'm not going to let some guys' weirdly acerbic and argumentative tendencies dissuade me from doing so, especially someone as unimpressive as Payitforward.

More to the point, I actually come here to read the varying viewpoints of people like yourself, Dat2U, CCJ, DCZards, Willbcocks, Rafael122, Nivek etc.; I view that as a significantly more beneficial use of my spare time than stating my opinion on a subject because I already know exactly how I feel on a particular matter. Occasionally I'll try to influence the discussion with a post or two on a topic, but I feel like I gain the most value from reading what has already been written on various threads during my day's myriad interregnums (and between thesaurus lessons of course ). You don't have to worry about me giving that up, but thanks for the kind words nonetheless. I certainly appreciate them.

[pancakes3]

I hope nobody's buying thesauruses anymore. It's 2013. Shift-f7 in Word, the internet, Siri...

Also this is the second time in today's just-started day that I read "interregnum". There has to be a glitch in the matrix. (The other was used as a fb photo album title to describe photos taken in the summer between semester sessions)

[Soup's Uncle]

What time is the game tomorrow?

[DCsOwn]

What time is the game tomorrow?

4:00 pm.

[DCsOwn]

I hope nobody's buying thesauruses anymore. It's 2013. Shift-f7 in Word, the internet, Siri...

Also this is the second time in today's just-started day that I read "interregnum". There has to be a glitch in the matrix. (The other was used as a fb photo album title to describe photos taken in the summer between semester sessions)

The funniest thing about the entire exchange is that I've literally never used a thesaurus in my life. I've spent tremendous amounts of time around dictionaries, but I've never actually used a thesaurus for any purpose. The imagery of the entire thing is amusing to me though. Someone consulting a thesaraus and then running to realgm to do their best Clyde Frazier impression.

[payitforward]

P.I.F doing what he does best, making friends. DCsOwn: I like your stuff, keep posting.

Thanks bud. I enjoy this forum, I'm not going to let some guys' weirdly acerbic and argumentative tendencies dissuade me from doing so, especially someone as unimpressive as Payitforward.

More to the point, I actually come here to read the varying viewpoints of people like yourself, Dat2U, CCJ, DCZards, Willbcocks, Rafael122, Nivek etc.; I view that as a significantly more beneficial use of my spare time than stating my opinion on a subject because I already know exactly how I feel on a particular matter. Occasionally I'll try to influence the discussion with a post or two on a topic, but I feel like I gain the most value from reading what has already been written on various threads during my day's myriad interregnums (and between thesaurus lessons of course ). You don't have to worry about me giving that up, but thanks for the kind words nonetheless. I certainly appreciate them.

DCsOwn -- weird, ok. But it was that doclinkin guy who wrote last week (about himself, mind you) "I like arguing" -- and this after calling everybody on this board a bunch of names!

To be serious for a minute (but not much longer....), these arguments go about a millimeter deep for me, no more. And I hope no more for you either. I'm interested in what you write, and I happily acknowledge that you were right I went a little overboard in looking for yet another fallen branch w/ wch to whack our hapless leader EG.

If I gave you any offense -- please forgive; let me off the hook; definitely not intended. You want to give me a time-out (or, for pancakes3 that's an "interregnum"), go ahead. I'll take it. Tell me I can't post until... hmmm, well it can't last past our opening SL game tomorrow, ok?

Peace.

[payitforward]

I hope nobody's buying thesauruses anymore. It's 2013. Shift-f7 in Word, the internet, Siri...

Also this is the second time in today's just-started day that I read "interregnum". There has to be a glitch in the matrix. (The other was used as a fb photo album title to describe photos taken in the summer between semester sessions)

The funniest thing about the entire exchange is that I've literally never used a thesaurus in my life. I've spent tremendous amounts of time around dictionaries, but I've never actually used a thesaurus for any purpose. The imagery of the entire thing is amusing to me though. Someone consulting a thesaraus and then running to realgm to do their best Clyde Frazier impression.

I love dictionaries -- not just of a single language (although the OED is pretty great) but of every kind. I vaguely remember from my 20s long ago a 'Dictionary of As If'' which rewrote the world in terms of Vaihinger's "Philosophy of As If." And I have a great dictionary of underground slang from the '30s that I found in some junk store long ago.

Google Translate has its points too. A couple of years ago a distant relative living in Poland found me -- the families had been split by WWII. She has no English, but we have an active (if not always accurate!) correspondence maintained via GT.

[daSwami]

Was stoked to see Marques Haynes' name on our Summer League roster. I guess this is EG's idea of a "veteran" locker-room leader.

[DCsOwn]

P.I.F doing what he does best, making friends. DCsOwn: I like your stuff, keep posting.

Thanks bud. I enjoy this forum, I'm not going to let some guys' weirdly acerbic and argumentative tendencies dissuade me from doing so, especially someone as unimpressive as Payitforward.

More to the point, I actually come here to read the varying viewpoints of people like yourself, Dat2U, CCJ, DCZards, Willbcocks, Rafael122, Nivek etc.; I view that as a significantly more beneficial use of my spare time than stating my opinion on a subject because I already know exactly how I feel on a particular matter. Occasionally I'll try to influence the discussion with a post or two on a topic, but I feel like I gain the most value from reading what has already been written on various threads during my day's myriad interregnums (and between thesaurus lessons of course ). You don't have to worry about me giving that up, but thanks for the kind words nonetheless. I certainly appreciate them.

DCsOwn -- weird, ok. But it was that doclinkin guy who wrote last week (about himself, mind you) "I like arguing" -- and this after calling everybody on this board a bunch of names!

To be serious for a minute (but not much longer....), these arguments go about a millimeter deep for me, no more. And I hope no more for you either. I'm interested in what you write, and I happily acknowledge that you were right I went a little overboard in looking for yet another fallen branch w/ wch to whack our hapless leader EG.

If I gave you any offense -- please forgive; let me off the hook; definitely not intended. You want to give me a time-out (or, for pancakes3 that's an "interregnum"), go ahead. I'll take it. Tell me I can't post until... hmmm, well it can't last past our opening SL game tomorrow, ok?

Peace.

No hard feelings my man. I do appreciate how passionate you appear to be about the team and potential issues affecting the organization's progression. This has been a LONG slog for many of us and it's always great to see fans that haven't been made apathetic by the incalculable amount of abuse we've incurred over the years. Better to run hot than cold as fans (within reason) I think.

[Ruzious]

DCsOwn -- weird, ok. But it was that doclinkin guy who wrote last week (about himself, mind you) "I like arguing" -- and this after calling everybody on this board a bunch of names!

To be serious for a minute (but not much longer....), these arguments go about a millimeter deep for me, no more. And I hope no more for you either. I'm interested in what you write, and I happily acknowledge that you were right I went a little overboard in looking for yet another fallen branch w/ wch to whack our hapless leader EG.

If I gave you any offense -- please forgive; let me off the hook; definitely not intended. You want to give me a time-out (or, for pancakes3 that's an "interregnum"), go ahead. I'll take it. Tell me I can't post until... hmmm, well it can't last past our opening SL game tomorrow, ok?

Peace.

Pay, I appreciated your responses to doc's post.

... and that you're not thesauruphobic.

[DCsOwn]

I hope nobody's buying thesauruses anymore. It's 2013. Shift-f7 in Word, the internet, Siri...

Also this is the second time in today's just-started day that I read "interregnum". There has to be a glitch in the matrix. (The other was used as a fb photo album title to describe photos taken in the summer between semester sessions)

The funniest thing about the entire exchange is that I've literally never used a thesaurus in my life. I've spent tremendous amounts of time around dictionaries, but I've never actually used a thesaurus for any purpose. The imagery of the entire thing is amusing to me though. Someone consulting a thesaraus and then running to realgm to do their best Clyde Frazier impression.

Google Translate has its points too. A couple of years ago a distant relative living in Poland found me -- the families had been split by WWII. She has no English, but we have an active (if not always accurate!) correspondence maintained via GT.

That's awesome.

I'm actually in the process of teaching myself Portugese right now. My wife's from Sao Paulo and we're heading to Rio for the World Cup and I want to be able to function reasonably well without her as a crutch for the few weeks that we're there (she's also insisting that we visit once a year beyond that going forward, so having at least an elemetary grasp of the language should serve me beyond that occasion as well).

It ain't going too well atm, but I've been told that the initial stage is the most difficult. I've been getting a lot of construction analogies to assuage my concerns replete with foundation and basement references.

Still, I'm having fun with the entire thing, and come to think of it, im sure that I'll be using some type of monolingual thesaurus soon, only it'll probably be of the foreign variety.

[willbcocks]

I can't say enough about 1 on 1 language instruction, or at least a language partner to practice speaking with. I've done a lot of self-study, larger classes, and 1 on 1 classes, and the 1 on 1 blow the others out of the water. Of course they can cost a bit.

I admit they aren't for everyone, but I loved doing language study vacations. I'd visit a country, take 3-4 hours of 1 on 1 classes in the morning, end before 1 or 2, then enjoy the rest of the day like a normal vacation. When I'd get sick of walking around in the late afternoon, I'd get some coffee or tea and review my notes. And I'd take another 30 - 60 minutes before bed to review again. I became somewhat proficient in Chinese -- and got my current job -- by taking 3 such vacations in 3 different parts of China over the course of a year, then studying on my own and with language partners in the interim. Of course this may be your definition of hell rather than vacation...

[doclinkin]

DCsOwn -- weird, ok. But it was that doclinkin guy who wrote last week (about himself, mind you) "I like arguing" -- and this after calling everybody on this board a bunch of names!

Yes, we are all fatheaded idiots wasting time nerd-fencing about who has more pointed knowledge about the antics of sweaty mesomorphs in short pants. Just the bare facts, or nearly bare: in sweaty underpants.

We argue about it, because it is an inconsequential distraction from the mundane. We have no real effect on it -- except of course CCJ whose posts are swiftly scanned scribbled on a post it note and tacked to a corkboard that has been labelled "DO NOT DO THIS"-- and that may be the fun of it, we have no responsibility or ability to affect our pointless passion, it is out of our otherwise capable hands. I enjoy to all heck the conceptual pugilism of this discourse, as much or probably more than my hapless passion over the local sports team. Though at least here, in the word war, I can occasionally have an effect, put a score up on the board. Though the squabble is what matters, not the win column. If I cared about wins more than the quality of competition, well I'd be a dimwitted Heat fan now wouldn't I?

It's summer time, if we can't argue about basketball, shoot, I'd probably have to play mailbox baseball, or tie cans to cats tails or somesuch other mischief. Again, as that wise cat doclinkin always says, if not for the internet: the unibomber.