Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 3

[hands11]

The bulls starting 5 is the best in the league 2nd to maybe the nets...

Rose
Butler
Deng
Boozer
Noah

When rose is your weakest defender, and noah is your weakest offensive piece, you have a great lineup. ..and yes boozer is a good defender...his #s prove that...

Rose vs Wall
Butler vs Beal
Deng vs Webster/Trevor A
Boozer vs Nene
Noah vs Okafor

I think we actually stack up against them pretty well.

[hands11]

So Cleveland has an interesting roster. Great move adding Jack. And I liked the Sergey Karasev as a prospect.

And Dion Waiters could take a step forward this year. Dude is a load at SG.

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/roster/_/na ... -cavaliers

Its going to come down to health of their bigs.

No Bynum and Varejao and that will hurt. At least Jack can cover for Kyrie if he gets injured again.

If there bigs can stay healthy, they could challenge for the playoffs. If not, I think they have lots of young talent but I they are going to be all over the place. To young and not enough vet guidance for them to put it all together without the stability of the bigs.

Give we are talking Bynum and Varejao, more likely they struggle again then that they challenge for the playoffs.

[deneem4]

The bulls starting 5 is the best in the league 2nd to maybe the nets...

Rose
Butler
Deng
Boozer
Noah

When rose is your weakest defender, and noah is your weakest offensive piece, you have a great lineup. ..and yes boozer is a good defender...his #s prove that...

Rose vs Wall
Butler vs Beal
Deng vs Webster/Trevor A
Boozer vs Nene
Noah vs Okafor

I think we actually stack up against them pretty well.

Maybe wall can guard rose now but before the injuries rose was hurting wall.....literally, he really gave wall his first injury on crossovers the 1st time they played..

Butler is a monster...one of my fav nba players, beal is too...but size matters

Deng and ariza is the same...if u swap ariza for deng, he'll put up the same #s...webster need more versatility

Boozer would light nene up for days, boozee is the best pick and pop big man, and his defense goes unrespected, but nene cant match with boozer

Noah energy, oka cant match tht...
If wall can become a headache on the offensive end (westbrook/rose) amd if beal can add more than shooting, we might can distrurb them but our lineup can't match the bulls ...maybe okc and a healthy nuggets.

[closg00]

The bulls starting 5 is the best in the league 2nd to maybe the nets...

Rose
Butler
Deng
Boozer
Noah

When rose is your weakest defender, and noah is your weakest offensive piece, you have a great lineup. ..and yes boozer is a good defender...his #s prove that...

Butler taken 30th in that allegedly weak draft!?

[LyricalRico]

The Lakers have added (Mark) Madsen to Coach Mike D'Antoni's staff as a player-development coach, according to a team spokesman.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakersnow ... 1350.story

Sweet! Now all of their DNP-CD guys will be prepared to properly celebrate if they win another title!

[nate33]

The bulls starting 5 is the best in the league 2nd to maybe the nets...

Rose
Butler
Deng
Boozer
Noah

When rose is your weakest defender, and noah is your weakest offensive piece, you have a great lineup. ..and yes boozer is a good defender...his #s prove that...

Rose vs Wall
Butler vs Beal
Deng vs Webster/Trevor A
Boozer vs Nene
Noah vs Okafor

I think we actually stack up against them pretty well.

Thibodeau vs Wittman is the big difference. I'd also give Chicago a pretty big advantage in the Noah versus Okafor matchup.

[nuposse04]

The bulls starting 5 is the best in the league 2nd to maybe the nets...

Rose
Butler
Deng
Boozer
Noah

When rose is your weakest defender, and noah is your weakest offensive piece, you have a great lineup. ..and yes boozer is a good defender...his #s prove that...

Rose vs Wall
Butler vs Beal
Deng vs Webster/Trevor A
Boozer vs Nene
Noah vs Okafor

I think we actually stack up against them pretty well.

Thibodeau vs Wittman is the big difference. I'd also give Chicago a pretty big advantage in the Noah versus Okafor matchup.

I think are some analogies between the teams. Without their starting PGs both teams are pretty tough to watch on offense and at full strength I'd say the defensive abilities of both teams is comparable. Butler, Deng and Noah are clearly better defenders in some ways (I don't think Noah is that good a post defender tbh) but I'd argue Wall is already a better defender then Rose and a healthy Nene is considerably better then Boozer.

What I think kills us is the bench. Kirk is still a decent backup PG...Maynor is a wildcard there. Dunleavy is a good spacer for them. Taj is pretty damn good as well (although Booker was compareable last year [although health is still an issue with him]). Nazr is still good for 10-15 minutes...Seraphin...eh maybe a hookshot or two.

If EG's project frontcourt pay any dividends I'd say we have a shot to be in their ball park.

[DCsOwn]

The bulls starting 5 is the best in the league 2nd to maybe the nets...

Rose
Butler
Deng
Boozer
Noah

When rose is your weakest defender, and noah is your weakest offensive piece, you have a great lineup. ..and yes boozer is a good defender...his #s prove that...

Rose vs Wall
Butler vs Beal
Deng vs Webster/Trevor A
Boozer vs Nene
Noah vs Okafor

I think we actually stack up against them pretty well.

Maybe wall can guard rose now but before the injuries rose was hurting wall.....literally, he really gave wall his first injury on crossovers the 1st time they played..

Butler is a monster...one of my fav nba players, beal is too...but size matters

Deng and ariza is the same...if u swap ariza for deng, he'll put up the same #s...webster need more versatility

Boozer would light nene up for days, boozee is the best pick and pop big man, and his defense goes unrespected, but nene cant match with boozer

Noah energy, oka cant match tht...
If wall can become a headache on the offensive end (westbrook/rose) amd if beal can add more than shooting, we might can distrurb them but our lineup can't match the bulls ...maybe okc and a healthy nuggets.

Rose actually hurt Wall by landing on his foot after John made a three pointer in his face.

[hands11]

I think this is Walls revenge tour this year. I just hope he doesn't come out and say it like Gil did that one year. There is a similarity between Wall and Gil that I don't want to see repeated. I want Wall to be a more mature a team focused player. No scoring prediction. Just get it done on the court.

But Wall vs D Rose. That is a match up I am looking forward to seeing.

Wall got burned by a lot of PGs in year 1 and 2. He should have the skills to do battle with them this year. And he gives a lot of effort to D as well so he will look to really get in their grill.

If Wall picks up where he left off getting a ton of FTA per game, not reason he shouldn't average in the 23-24 pts a game range. Add in his 8 assists, blocks, defense and rebounds, and he should be competing for top 3 PG this year. Just needs to keep his turnovers down like he did to end the year.

Now if he can add a 3 ball, game over.

Had Wall started last year, I think he would have had an amazing year. Well, this year should be even better then if Wall was healthy last year.

Think about that for moment. That level of player can destroy a team all by himself on offense. Add that he will pass to Beal and Webster for open corner 3s along with Okafor rebounding. You almost don't even need Nene. Trevor A can S4. Booker can rebound. Mostly what they need Nene for is defense and maturity. And he is a great post passer.

Man, they could really use another strong defensive 4 that isn't over priced. As it is, they are rolling the dice that one of Booker, Kevin or Ves can be that player.

[stevemcqueen1]

The bulls starting 5 is the best in the league 2nd to maybe the nets...

Rose
Butler
Deng
Boozer
Noah

When rose is your weakest defender, and noah is your weakest offensive piece, you have a great lineup. ..and yes boozer is a good defender...his #s prove that...

Rose vs Wall
Butler vs Beal
Deng vs Webster/Trevor A
Boozer vs Nene
Noah vs Okafor

I think we actually stack up against them pretty well.

Thibodeau vs Wittman is the big difference. I'd also give Chicago a pretty big advantage in the Noah versus Okafor matchup.

Agreed. Wall vs Rose used to be a big mismatch, but maybe not any more. We'll see. Deng is better than Ariza, Ariza is certainly not an All Star. Beal will soon be better than Butler, but Butler is more a SF anyway. He's not a good enough shooter to be a high quality SG.

A healthy Nene is better than a healthy Boozer at this point. Boozer had some really awful stretches last year and he's not a very good offensive player any more. Nene is very impactful in all phases when healthy and doesn't take anything off the table.

So far their depth has also been better than what we've got. That might change this season though.

This is probably the final year of that Bulls team though. They're expensive and they've got some expirings.

[stevemcqueen1]

Hmmm, so basically it sounds like Portland is not interested in expirings & a bunch of future picks. Maybe rebuilding isn't something their looking to do. So maybe a deal centered around Nene & Porter would work?

I would guess they'd be more likely to go for Nene+Beal since they already have Batum. As much as I like Beal, it could work for us if we moved Webster to SG full time.

Okafor
Aldridge
Porter
Webster
Wall

Wow, that's actually eerily similar to his current situation in Portland. If it ever comes to him forcing his way out, he could be looking elsewhere.

I wouldn't include Beal in a trade for Aldridge, even one that takes Nene off the books. Bradley Beal is 20 and he already hits threes with great accuracy. Beal is a great complement to John Wall. He's the outside threat to go with Wall driving to the basket. At their ages, they can dominate together for the next 8-10 years. They are friends and teammates who have a good bond.

I think the long term investment in Beal is worth more than trying to win now with LaMarcus Aldridge.

I agree. I'd add Porter to that group too. He's 20. I would just sit back and let that big three grow up together.

[pancakes3]

Would you add Porter for a Kevin Love deal?

[nate33]

Would you add Porter for a Kevin Love deal?

Add Porter to who?

I would trade anyone on the roster except Wall and Beal for Love.

[stevemcqueen1]

Would you add Porter for a Kevin Love deal?

Yes, certainly. But like Nate said, who else can you add to make Minnesota deal? Certainly not Wall. And I wouldn't deal both Porter & Beal. Then you go from a big three to a big two. And Love is excellent, but he's a somewhat flawed player and just Wall + Love wouldn't quite be good enough to contend. You're better off taking a chance on Porter and Beal long term IMO.

[pancakes3]

I was asking with regard to the LMA deal. Some people (Steve) thought it'd be too much to add Porter in for a Nene+Porter for LMA deal. I was just trying to gauge the perceived (or actual) value of LMA vs Love. I get that LMA is older and has less range but I think the two are comparable talents. I guess that 4 years of youth that Love has and his 3 point range makes up the difference.

[deneem4]

I like beal but he wont be better than jimmy, he'll be up there
jimmy butler is going to be on p George level next yr
vs the heat in the finals he averaged 15/6/2/1.5 while shooting 42% and 43% from 3
having him as starting sg is going to increase his prod, rose back or nt...expect a good season from him
jimmy 18/6/4/2 45% and 43% nxt season

[Ruzious]

I like beal but he wont be better than jimmy, he'll be up there
jimmy butler is going to be on p George level next yr
vs the heat in the finals he averaged 15/6/2/1.5 while shooting 42% and 43% from 3
having him as starting sg is going to increase his prod, rose back or nt...expect a good season from him
jimmy 18/6/4/2 45% and 43% nxt season

Jimmy Butler flat out stunk as a rookie, and if you saw him then, you wouldn't be talking so boldly about him. I give him credit for out-working almost everyone and becoming a very solid NBA player under the perfect coach for him. I doubt he'd be more than a halfway decent reserve for most teams. And be real, he's not a 3 point shooter. He made about half of one per game. He doesn't stretch defenses. He had a good second season. He could just as easily regress towards his ugly rookie years as improve from last season. I seriously doubt there's any GM that would rather have Butler than Beal.

[nuposse04]

I was asking with regard to the LMA deal. Some people (Steve) thought it'd be too much to add Porter in for a Nene+Porter for LMA deal. I was just trying to gauge the perceived (or actual) value of LMA vs Love. I get that LMA is older and has less range but I think the two are comparable talents. I guess that 4 years of youth that Love has and his 3 point range makes up the difference.

I'm not a big believer in Love. He doesn't seem to be able to do a large amount of stuff on his own. He seems like a rich man's Ersan to me (in that he keeps the production higher with nearly the same amount of efficiency). I don't know if I've ever seen Love do consistent work in the post. Seems like plays I seen from him are jumpshots or tip shots.

On LMA, isn't he like 28 or something? While his game isn't predicated a lot on athleticism I've never thought he was a particularly good defender either. They're both guys whose asking price will lead to lateral moves IMO. If we're building something good by the time they expire and they want to come hither over for less than max money (especially in LMA's case) then I'd be content with that.

[nuposse04]

I like beal but he wont be better than jimmy, he'll be up there
jimmy butler is going to be on p George level next yr
vs the heat in the finals he averaged 15/6/2/1.5 while shooting 42% and 43% from 3
having him as starting sg is going to increase his prod, rose back or nt...expect a good season from him
jimmy 18/6/4/2 45% and 43% nxt season

Jimmy is another "glue guy" he doesn't nearly have the ability to be an 18 ppg guy on a team with as much talent as CHI. Also if you think he's going to shoot 40% on 3's that is laughable. People aren't going to slouch off of him like they did in the playoffs. Also, 4 assists? WTF He averaged 1.9 this past season. Which is fine, but he doesn't have the handles to be a playmaker. If was a couple years younger I'd say he could get that, but he'll be 24 by seasons start. Obviously young enough to improve, but I doubt you see DRASTIC changes to his game.

[deneem4]

I like beal but he wont be better than jimmy, he'll be up there
jimmy butler is going to be on p George level next yr
vs the heat in the finals he averaged 15/6/2/1.5 while shooting 42% and 43% from 3
having him as starting sg is going to increase his prod, rose back or nt...expect a good season from him
jimmy 18/6/4/2 45% and 43% nxt season

Jimmy Butler flat out stunk as a rookie, and if you saw him then, you wouldn't be talking so boldly about him. I give him credit for out-working almost everyone and becoming a very solid NBA player under the perfect coach for him. I doubt he'd be more than a halfway decent reserve for most teams. And be real, he's not a 3 point shooter. He made about half of one per game. He doesn't stretch defenses. He had a good second season. He could just as easily regress towards his ugly rookie years as improve from last season. I seriously doubt there's any GM that would rather have Butler than Beal.

He got 8mins a game as a rookie...
His defense is top 10,
hes nt a 3pt shooter but shot 40% attempting 2.5 per game in playoffs???
As a starter last yr he avg 14.5/7/2.7/1.8 while shooting 45% fg and 3pt (2.5)
Beal will be a great player...but butler edges him over because his defense and size... (beal is my fav player)
Well see when the season start..
If bulls make butler 2nd option, hes going to be an allstar...