Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 3

[Ruzious]

I like beal but he wont be better than jimmy, he'll be up there
jimmy butler is going to be on p George level next yr
vs the heat in the finals he averaged 15/6/2/1.5 while shooting 42% and 43% from 3
having him as starting sg is going to increase his prod, rose back or nt...expect a good season from him
jimmy 18/6/4/2 45% and 43% nxt season

Jimmy Butler flat out stunk as a rookie, and if you saw him then, you wouldn't be talking so boldly about him. I give him credit for out-working almost everyone and becoming a very solid NBA player under the perfect coach for him. I doubt he'd be more than a halfway decent reserve for most teams. And be real, he's not a 3 point shooter. He made about half of one per game. He doesn't stretch defenses. He had a good second season. He could just as easily regress towards his ugly rookie years as improve from last season. I seriously doubt there's any GM that would rather have Butler than Beal.

He got 8mins a game as a rookie...
His defense is top 10,
hes nt a 3pt shooter but shot 40% attempting 2.5 per game in playoffs???
As a starter last yr he avg 14.5/7/2.7/1.8 while shooting 45% fg and 3pt (2.5)
Beal will be a great player...but butler edges him over because his defense and size... (beal is my fav player)
Well see when the season start..
If bulls make butler 2nd option, hes going to be an allstar...

They won't make him their second option, because they're not idiots.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

I was asking with regard to the LMA deal. Some people (Steve) thought it'd be too much to add Porter in for a Nene+Porter for LMA deal. I was just trying to gauge the perceived (or actual) value of LMA vs Love. I get that LMA is older and has less range but I think the two are comparable talents. I guess that 4 years of youth that Love has and his 3 point range makes up the difference.

I'm not a big believer in Love. He doesn't seem to be able to do a large amount of stuff on his own. He seems like a rich man's Ersan to me (in that he keeps the production higher with nearly the same amount of efficiency). I don't know if I've ever seen Love do consistent work in the post. Seems like plays I seen from him are jumpshots or tip shots.

On LMA, isn't he like 28 or something? While his game isn't predicated a lot on athleticism I've never thought he was a particularly good defender either. They're both guys whose asking price will lead to lateral moves IMO. If we're building something good by the time they expire and they want to come hither over for less than max money (especially in LMA's case) then I'd be content with that.

I knew you weren't a Huey Lewis fan. I just knew it.

[Kanyewest]

Paul George is about a year younger than Jimmy Butler. I liked how Butler improved though during last season.

[nuposse04]

I knew you weren't a Huey Lewis fan. I just knew it.

He's got a fairly generic sound if you ask me.

[Rafael122]

Brian Windhorst trying to stay relevant by putting out an article that suggests the Heat could start with $50 million in cap space next summer. The odds of Bosh and Wade opting out of deals that pay them 40 mil+ over the next 2 years is slim to none. Lebron is another story.

[Nivek]

Brian Windhorst trying to stay relevant by putting out an article that suggests the Heat could start with $50 million in cap space next summer. The odds of Bosh and Wade opting out of deals that pay them 40 mil+ over the next 2 years is slim to none. Lebron is another story.

Not only would Bosh and Wade have to opt out, the Heat would have to renounce them or they'd have to sign elsewhere for the Heat to actually get that cap space.

[verbal8]

$50 million in cap space wouldn't matter much with Haslem and Anthony as the only guys under contract. Just ask Mark Cuban.

Brian Windhorst trying to stay relevant by putting out an article that suggests the Heat could start with $50 million in cap space next summer. The odds of Bosh and Wade opting out of deals that pay them 40 mil+ over the next 2 years is slim to none. Lebron is another story.

Not only would Bosh and Wade have to opt out, the Heat would have to renounce them or they'd have to sign elsewhere for the Heat to actually get that cap space.

[payitforward]

I like beal but he wont be better than jimmy, he'll be up there
jimmy butler is going to be on p George level next yr
vs the heat in the finals he averaged 15/6/2/1.5 while shooting 42% and 43% from 3
having him as starting sg is going to increase his prod, rose back or nt...expect a good season from him
jimmy 18/6/4/2 45% and 43% nxt season

Jimmy Butler flat out stunk as a rookie, and if you saw him then, you wouldn't be talking so boldly about him. I give him credit for out-working almost everyone and becoming a very solid NBA player under the perfect coach for him. I doubt he'd be more than a halfway decent reserve for most teams. And be real, he's not a 3 point shooter. He made about half of one per game. He doesn't stretch defenses. He had a good second season. He could just as easily regress towards his ugly rookie years as improve from last season. I seriously doubt there's any GM that would rather have Butler than Beal.

Jimmy Butler played a grand total of 360 minutes as a rookie, and no he didn't stink. He'll have a long, productive NBA career. He's a great story as well. I can't imagine someone I'd be happier for.

Nor did his productivity depend on the coach he played for -- no one has ever shown that to be true in the NBA, btw, and plenty of research has been done. The endless attempt to explain away players' productivity is a waste of time. Sometimes it's "he got to play for a bad team so he got the minutes he needed;" other times "it's he got to play for a great team so of course he played well." All that stuff is a lot of hooey.

But it's ridiculous to compare Jimmy Butler to Bradley Beal -- for one thing he's almost 4 years older than Beal! For another... oh who needs another? Only a dimwit would compare them. Ditto the prediction that he'll be at the Paul George level next year or ever.

[sfam]

The Denver Nuggets and Nate Robinson have agreed upon a contract for the bi-annual exception.

Nate Robinson signs for the bi-annual exception? Tell me again why we weren't interested in him for this price?

[Dat2U]

The Denver Nuggets and Nate Robinson have agreed upon a contract for the bi-annual exception.

Nate Robinson signs for the bi-annual exception? Tell me again why we weren't interested in him for this price?

Because we like the steadiness of Maynor's suckiness?

[Ruzious]

I like beal but he wont be better than jimmy, he'll be up there
jimmy butler is going to be on p George level next yr
vs the heat in the finals he averaged 15/6/2/1.5 while shooting 42% and 43% from 3
having him as starting sg is going to increase his prod, rose back or nt...expect a good season from him
jimmy 18/6/4/2 45% and 43% nxt season

Jimmy Butler flat out stunk as a rookie, and if you saw him then, you wouldn't be talking so boldly about him. I give him credit for out-working almost everyone and becoming a very solid NBA player under the perfect coach for him. I doubt he'd be more than a halfway decent reserve for most teams. And be real, he's not a 3 point shooter. He made about half of one per game. He doesn't stretch defenses. He had a good second season. He could just as easily regress towards his ugly rookie years as improve from last season. I seriously doubt there's any GM that would rather have Butler than Beal.

Jimmy Butler played a grand total of 360 minutes as a rookie, and no he didn't stink. He'll have a long, productive NBA career. He's a great story as well. I can't imagine someone I'd be happier for.

Nor did his productivity depend on the coach he played for -- no one has ever shown that to be true in the NBA, btw, and plenty of research has been done. The endless attempt to explain away players' productivity is a waste of time. Sometimes it's "he got to play for a bad team so he got the minutes he needed;" other times "it's he got to play for a great team so of course he played well." All that stuff is a lot of hooey.

But it's ridiculous to compare Jimmy Butler to Bradley Beal -- for one thing he's almost 4 years older than Beal! For another... oh who needs another? Only a dimwit would compare them. Ditto the prediction that he'll be at the Paul George level next year or ever.

So because something hasn't been mathematically proven, you become like the computer Capn Kirk deals with on Star Trek, smoke comes out of your ears, and you blurble "Does not compute! Does not Compute!"

Anyway, your 3rd paragraph was spot on.

Jimmy Butler played only 360 minutes as a rookie, because... he wasn't a good player. He became a good player, because he worked very hard and had excellent direction.

[nate33]

The Denver Nuggets and Nate Robinson have agreed upon a contract for the bi-annual exception.

Nate Robinson signs for the bi-annual exception? Tell me again why we weren't interested in him for this price?

EG strikes again. Dat2U called this one from the get go.

We could have come out of this offseason with Nerlens Noel, Martell Webster and Nate Robinson. Our roster would have been in pretty good shape for the near term and long term. Instead, we get Porter, Webster and Maynor. Redundant at the wings, lousy at backup PG, and we have not addressed our future frontcourt.

[Ruzious]

The Denver Nuggets and Nate Robinson have agreed upon a contract for the bi-annual exception.

Nate Robinson signs for the bi-annual exception? Tell me again why we weren't interested in him for this price?

EG strikes again. Dat2U called this one from the get go.

We could have come out of this offseason with Nerlens Noel, Martell Webster and Nate Robinson. Our roster would have been in pretty good shape for the near term and long term. Instead, we get Porter, Webster and Maynor. Redundant at the wings, lousy at backup PG, and we have not addressed our future frontcourt.

I didn't even realize it was the bi-annual exeption that we used. I forgot it was available - figured it was the veteran minimum - the signing happened when I was on vaca and sans internet. Now I know why you guys are going out of your way to bash it - and you're right. Wow, that was foolish - though lil Nate probably wouldn't have been my #1 target with that money.

[GhostsOfGil]

The Denver Nuggets and Nate Robinson have agreed upon a contract for the bi-annual exception.

Nate Robinson signs for the bi-annual exception? Tell me again why we weren't interested in him for this price?

EG strikes again. Dat2U called this one from the get go.

We could have come out of this offseason with Nerlens Noel, Martell Webster and Nate Robinson. Our roster would have been in pretty good shape for the near term and long term. Instead, we get Porter, Webster and Maynor. Redundant at the wings, lousy at backup PG, and we have not addressed our future frontcourt.

Nate, I gotta applaud you on your ability to always paint the perfect "what if.... awwww son of a b*tch!" picture.

[verbal8]

The Denver Nuggets and Nate Robinson have agreed upon a contract for the bi-annual exception.

Nate Robinson signs for the bi-annual exception? Tell me again why we weren't interested in him for this price?

EG strikes again. Dat2U called this one from the get go.

We could have come out of this offseason with Nerlens Noel, Martell Webster and Nate Robinson. Our roster would have been in pretty good shape for the near term and long term. Instead, we get Porter, Webster and Maynor. Redundant at the wings, lousy at backup PG, and we have not addressed our future frontcourt.

If Noel had been the pick, claiming Bernard James off of waivers would have been the perfect move to help in the short term. He still would have been a good pick-up, since nothing has been done to improve the front court.

[closg00]

Ahhh, time to use Ernie's money quote dating back to the Foye/Miller trade, it pretty much sums-up his management philosophy.

Grunfeld added that it wasn't necessary to wait and see which player fell to the team at No. 5. "We knew who was going to be at the five spot and we felt that these players were going to help us a lot more than anybody we would've gotten in the draft," Grunfeld said. "A lot of times what happens, when you wait on situations, the other team might get better offers along the way. Then the trade might go away. We felt good about this."

Still waiting to see how Ernie address the front court depth problem.

[Ruzious]

Oh c'mon. There's no reason that Nene and Okafor can't both play 48 minutes a game. Wilt used to do it. Problem solved!

[flash22]

I still wouldn't touch Noel. He won't ever be more then a fringe starter IMO.

[LyricalRico]

I still wouldn't touch Noel. He won't ever be more then a fringe starter IMO.

Agree that a Noel pick wouldn't have been all roses. Even with Noel on the roster, there still would have been a frontcourt depth issue for the upcoming season since he would miss a significant portion of the season rehabbing. IMO he wouldn't have been expected to contribute much even when healthy since he'd be a rail thin rookie with no offensive skill coming off a major injury. I understand the position that it could be a risk worth taking based on potential future returns, but I don't have any regrets about the pick.

[mhd]

I still wouldn't touch Noel. He won't ever be more then a fringe starter IMO.

Agree that a Noel pick wouldn't have been all roses. Even with Noel on the roster, there still would have been a frontcourt depth issue for the upcoming season since he would miss a significant portion of the season rehabbing. IMO he wouldn't have been expected to contribute much even when healthy since he'd be a rail thin rookie with no offensive skill coming off a major injury. I understand the position that it could be a risk worth taking based on potential future returns, but I don't have any regrets about the pick.

And Porter (who is a rail thin rookie) is going to contribute considering Ariza and Webster are in front of him? If the Wiz wanted to drafted a ready made contributor, they should have drafted Zeller.