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Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing

Moderators: nate33, montestewart, LyricalRico

IS IT TIME TO FIRE ERNIE GRUNFELD?

1) Yes, I believe it is time for EG to go now.
29
69%
2) Ted should let him go at the end of the season.
9
21%
3) No, Ted needs to give him more time..(DESPITE THE FACT ERNIE HAS BEEN GM SINCE 2003)
4
10%
 
Total votes: 42

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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#681 » by Dat2U » Mon Jul 8, 2013 3:02 pm

nate33 wrote:
Deeptu McPullup wrote:One thing I'm sure of is that I want nothing to do with next year's second tier free agent fallback targets outside of just a couple of younger bigs. Even a lot of the first tier name guys look like "bad contract by year 3" candidates given the minutes logged and the kind of cash they're eligible to receive.

Agreed. I think we will look to make a play for Cousins or Bosh, or maybe some kind of trade for Horford or Aldridge, but chances are, none of that will pan out. Our fall back will be to resign Okafor to a 2-year deal and try again in 2016 when Nene comes off the books.


Depending on how things start off this season, I think there may be a better chance Okafor's expiring gets moved for an overpaid player on a longer term deal. That would seem to fit Ernie's MO better than actually targeting someone in free agency and risk losing out.

I think Cousins is unrealistic. Sacramento seems intent on keeping him and even if he did become available I'm not sure Ted would sign off on bringing on someone that has such a negative reputation and doesn't really fit the culture.

Bottom line, I don't think we'll make it to the 2014 off-season if with the projected cap room we have now. I also think re-signing a center who will be 32 before the 2014 regular season is very unlikely unless we go a lot farther than anticipated next season due in part to Okafor's presence.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#682 » by Dat2U » Mon Jul 8, 2013 3:04 pm

My best guess, Okafor's expiring deal helps us land our starting PF or C beyond next season.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#683 » by LyricalRico » Mon Jul 8, 2013 3:14 pm

Dat2U wrote:My best guess, Okafor's expiring deal helps us land our starting PF or C beyond next season.


Maybe Hollinger convinces Memphis that they should get out of Marc Gasol's contract?

:D
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#684 » by TGW » Mon Jul 8, 2013 4:03 pm

I like those forum mod tags...fancy.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#685 » by hands11 » Mon Jul 8, 2013 7:23 pm

Chaos Revenant wrote:EG is going to pretty much back into a perennial 50-55 win team, and we have an outside chance of winning a title once LeBron leaves his peak and the Heatles are eventually broken up. It annoys me, seeing I've wanted this guy gone since 2007 or so because he sucks at his job. But fact is, we hit on our high lottery picks. Wall could be an MVP-level player as early as next year, Beal projects to be an All-Star if not a superstar, Porter will at worst be a high quality role player, we're loaded with veteran depth, and most of the East is tanking for Wiggins. This is assuming Ves, Singleton continue to be busts and KS continues to underperform - if Singleton becomes Baby Ariza (Ariza was pretty bad his first 2 years don't forget), Ves becomes Birdman, and KS becomes Brandon Bass with more defense, then all bets are off. Not that those are likely occurrences but it could theoretically happen. And in 2014, we could add a Bosh, Monroe or Cousins.

Let's say in 2 years Wall's peak is somewhere close to current (not peak) CP3, which is a 25-27 PER player with top-flight defense, Beal peaks as something similar to Ray Allen, Porter is the Middle East oil sheik's Tayshaun Prince, and we've added Cousins and Nene is still producing at a fairly high level, albeit in 28-30 MPG (and would be an expiring)

That's a starting lineup that can win an NBA title. EG may well build a championship contender by simply not blowing a few draft picks and doing a half decent job of managing the cap.


I remember reading a GM review a while ago and basically what it came down to was, if you get enough top 5 picks and you luck into having the right player available, you get that stud player and all the sudden your are the GM of a good to great team before long.

SA has done lots of things very well, but if they didn't luck into having the picks to get David Robinson and then Tim Duncan, then you are talking about a very different SA team. Those two with talent and personality are the essence of that franchise. All the coaching and system wouldn't have produced the same without those two on the court and in the locker to help it take root.

You post echos the long view I have been posting over the years while people here have just been venting frustration about how the Wizards suck and will always suck. Well sucking was part of the plan to get those high picks. Wall, Beal and now Otto. That is the style of rebuild lots of us wanted to finally see. The Miami or Boston model was the other way but they is going to be harder with the new CBA.

So now they have a few young studs they should be keeping for a good while. And they have vets and a deeper bench. They have a top D which many of us wanted compared to the Gil/AJ days. And for me, I like the coach better then back then as well.

So they have come a long way. They total rebuilt from the days of Gun Gate. And they are still a young team with room to grow. And with Wall, Beal and Otto so young, they would actually be best off not looking for a young front court like a Cousins, but instead finding vets that are at least 27/28 or older to play up there. For now, that's Nene and Okafor. In the future, who knows. They are a year away from being able to go after likes of Paul Gasol, KG types and going for it all. They could have done that this year, but I think it would be a year I guess, but starting next year will be the sweet spot.

For this year, given what they have, its a run to the playoffs to get Wall and Beal that experience. And for Otto, its awesome. He should get that experience in year one. For Beal it would only be his second year when he gets it, which is awesome. Wall is the one that had to take the biggest lumps. He had to wait the longer and live through the most instability and losing.

Now if Kevin S (coming into year 4) and Ves ( coming into year 3), can surprise with their development, that makes a huge difference. Then you would have a couple young players who can come off the bench reliably for a few more years while the more mature vets pull the cart up front. Then in maybe two more years, one of them is able to start next to a solid vet while the other remains a top notch back up.

Next summer their will be lots of options again. But if it ends up they extend Okafor two years and resign Trevor A at good value, I wouldn't be upset at all. Keep a solid group of vets around and let Wall, Beal and Otto develop into future mature 27 year old studs. Hell, in that model, I would even extend Ves. 4.4M is a risk on would take on him putting it together with this much more solid team around him.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#686 » by hands11 » Mon Jul 8, 2013 7:59 pm

Dat2U wrote:
nate33 wrote:
Deeptu McPullup wrote:One thing I'm sure of is that I want nothing to do with next year's second tier free agent fallback targets outside of just a couple of younger bigs. Even a lot of the first tier name guys look like "bad contract by year 3" candidates given the minutes logged and the kind of cash they're eligible to receive.

Agreed. I think we will look to make a play for Cousins or Bosh, or maybe some kind of trade for Horford or Aldridge, but chances are, none of that will pan out. Our fall back will be to resign Okafor to a 2-year deal and try again in 2016 when Nene comes off the books.


Depending on how things start off this season, I think there may be a better chance Okafor's expiring gets moved for an overpaid player on a longer term deal. That would seem to fit Ernie's MO better than actually targeting someone in free agency and risk losing out.

I think Cousins is unrealistic. Sacramento seems intent on keeping him and even if he did become available I'm not sure Ted would sign off on bringing on someone that has such a negative reputation and doesn't really fit the culture.

Bottom line, I don't think we'll make it to the 2014 off-season if with the projected cap room we have now. I also think re-signing a center who will be 32 before the 2014 regular season is very unlikely unless we go a lot farther than anticipated next season due in part to Okafor's presence.


Like EG says so often, the players will tell us what to do by their performance.

I see no reason Okafor wouldn't sign for less to stay here if they are winning and have a team he likes. He has been on losers long enough. And he probably realizes he isn't a center piece on a winning team. So I think he is ready to except being an important pieces but not a "I have to start" piece. Similar to Webster.

Maybe 6/7M over 2-3 years. I have no problem with that at all. PG, SG, SF are set with options. Nene can start at PF or Center. From there, you are really just looking for health and whoever that finishing piece is at PF or center if you can find the right fit. And the right fit may already be here. They have several line up to check out to see if they already have it.

I think they are very likely to move Okafor to the bench and start Nene at center more this year. If so, center is covered better then it has been in forever. Then the season becomes an audition for PFs that work with Nene at center and Okafor in the 2nd line at center. With Wall, Beal, Webster/Trevor A at SF and Otto and one of Nene or Okafor at center, that's the kind of stability that will allow project players at PF to develop. And they can always turn to vets if needed with Trevor A at PF or move Nene back there with Okafor at center.

Trevor A or Otto at PF with Nene or Okafor at center with them playing S4
Kevin at PF with Okafor at center is good a 2nd line up.
Ves at PF with Nene will get a good looking at this year if Ves can finally shoot the mid range or at least cut and finish better with made FT. Nene is a great post passer.

I'm fine with the roster as is for now. Lots to look at.

I think Trevor A may start at PF and they tell Ves, its your job if you can take it. Kevin S would be slotted for back up PF because he and Okafor works better.

Should be good competition this year.

And come playoff time when the middle to clogged up, they have those S4 line ups to spread it out.

Wall, Beal, Webster/Trevor A/Otto and one of Nene or Okafor.

Thats a pretty SA type team right there. Short of having actual playoff experience ( which will cost you one or two important games that are needed to get out of a series ) that team just might make some noise.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#687 » by closg00 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:11 pm

It's always a good idea to keep this thread around.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#688 » by dckingsfan » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:57 pm

closg00 wrote:It's always a good idea to keep this thread around.


:devil:
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#689 » by Benjammin » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:44 am

I look forward to a day when someone's children won't have the need for this thread.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#690 » by payitforward » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:48 am

Benjammin wrote:I look forward to a day when someone's children won't have the need for this thread.

He can't live forever.

Then again, neither can we.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#691 » by montestewart » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:43 am

Benjammin wrote:I look forward to a day when someone's children won't have the need for this thread.

A time when Grunfeld is nothing more than a tale parents tell to make their children behave.

"Eat your spinach or the Grunfeld will make another trade."
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#692 » by TGW » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:33 am

montestewart wrote:
Benjammin wrote:I look forward to a day when someone's children won't have the need for this thread.

A time when Grunfeld is nothing more than a tale parents tell to make their children behave.

"Eat your spinach or the Grunfeld will make another trade."


:lol:
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#693 » by closg00 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:41 am

montestewart wrote:
Benjammin wrote:I look forward to a day when someone's children won't have the need for this thread.

A time when Grunfeld is nothing more than a tale parents tell to make their children behave.

"Eat your spinach or the Grunfeld will make another trade."

:rofl:
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#694 » by payitforward » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:28 pm

montestewart wrote:
Benjammin wrote:I look forward to a day when someone's children won't have the need for this thread.

A time when Grunfeld is nothing more than a tale parents tell to make their children behave.

"Eat your spinach or the Grunfeld will make another trade."

HOF post!!
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#695 » by doclinkin » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:58 am

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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#696 » by FAH1223 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:42 pm

So is the only way Ernie gets canned is if this team gets in the lottery?

A 4-0 sweep at the hands of Miami in the 1st round makes him get another 2 year contract, right?
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#697 » by closg00 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:49 pm

FAH1223 wrote:So is the only way Ernie gets canned is if this team gets in the lottery?

A 4-0 sweep at the hands of Miami in the 1st round makes him get another 2 year contract, right?


Sometime between Wall's new contract and the start of the season, Ted will declare that the Wizards are heading in the right direction and Easy Ernie himself will have a new contract.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#698 » by FAH1223 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:09 pm

closg00 wrote:
Sometime between Wall's new contract and the start of the season, Ted will declare that the Wizards are heading in the right direction and Easy Ernie himself will have a new contract.

:x
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#699 » by montestewart » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:12 pm

FAH1223 wrote:So is the only way Ernie gets canned is if this team gets in the lottery?

I think a gutsy run for 9th seed says "You don't switch horses on the Titanic."
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#700 » by payitforward » Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:48 pm

montestewart wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:So is the only way Ernie gets canned is if this team gets in the lottery?

I think a gutsy run for 9th seed says "You don't switch horses on the Titanic."

Some people don't understand how important continuity is.

Once you finally achieve continuity, all you have left to do is flip the switch from continually bad to continually good.

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