Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 3

[dckingsfan]

The Milwaukee Bucks announced Thursday they have waived 6-foot-10 forward Gustavo Ayon, who was the only active Mexican-born player in the NBA.

I guess we knew something had to give with Henson, Udoh and Ilyosova at PF... and Larry Sanders and Zaza Pachulia at C.

[hands11]

Sometimes you just wish we had a "steal" in free agency like:

Darren Collison, Clippers, two years, $3.8 million - I understand this going to a contender.

Nate Robinson, Nuggets, two years, $4 million - playing behind Lawson and Miller - I think if we were patient we could have had him.

Mo Williams hasn't signed yet, but if it is on the same order - geez.

I guess we did get Webster last year - but just a one year deal.

The other two big steals in my opinion are Blatche and Kirilenko - but those were never going to happen for us.

Maybe we will get some of those "steals" if we perform better on the court.

What makes you think that. Lay out the scenario ?

Yeep, you get a better shot at those deals and players when you are making the playoffs.

[nate33]

Mo Williams would have been a real nice fit at combo guard for the BAE. He can play alongside any of Wall, Beal or Temple. He could provide some much-needed scoring punch when Wall is out.

[hands11]

Why wait? Ernie G. coveted Maynor since he was at TCU. He's had a great NBA career so far. There's no upside in waiting--taking a chance like that could have been fatal. What if another team signed Maynor? We'd be up ****'s creek.

Of course that brings us back to the implication that EG values Maynor over Robinson, Williams and Collison

No it doesn't.

It just your speculation circular confirmation logic.

Darren Collison went to the LAC. That is what I know.

If you were him, getting paid the same money, would you go to

LA or DC ?
Playoff team or team trying to prove they are the playoff team ?
Team with 56 win last year or team with 29 win last year ?

Collison's deal is for two years, with a player option in the second and the salary in his first season $1.9 million.

Nate chose Denver..Nate Robinson has alsoreceived interest from the Wizards, Bucks, Mavs and Lakers

If he didn't go to Denver, he probably would have went to the Lakers in LA, or the Mavs. The Wizards aren't there just yet.

So both Nate and Collison signed two year deals with player options.

[hands11]

Maynor hasn't sniffed mediocre. The lesson here is that it pays to be a guy Ernie has "always liked."

It worked out with Webster. Hopefully, it works out with Maynor.

Even if it works out, the same mistake was made. Right player, but the wrong contract. Even if it cost more, there was not a compelling reason to add a team option to Webster. Having Webster under contract for 2 years allows retaining him at a deal up to the MLE using early bird rights.

Instead of learning from this and holding out for Maynor(or possibly a player with more production/upside) to take a deal with a team option or 2 years, EG rushed to give up the player option. This means if Maynor out-performs his deal, it will take the MLE to retain him(since he will opt out). Oh and you don't have the BAE, since you get it only every 2 years. However if he performs according to his career production, he will get paid twice what he produces.

One of these deals isn't a huge deal in the direction of the franchise, but the pattern is troubling.

It would seem to hold some logic that with a BAE, you would want to actually have the player signed for two years.

Anyone know how common that is or not ? Seems like if anything it should have been a Wiz team option, not a player option. And if not that, just a straight up 2 year contract.

----
Nate Robinson has decided to sign with the Denver Nuggets on a two year deal worth roughly $4 million dollars. The second year on Robinson’s deal is player option.

Alex Kennedy ✔ @AlexKennedyNBA

The Washington Wizards were also expressing serious interest in Nate Robinson, but he decided on the Denver Nuggets.

http://wizofawes.com/2013/07/22/nate-ro ... r-wizards/
----
Sounds like Nate has the same player option for a BAE. Sounds like the Wizards had a serious interest. Sounds like Nate decided on Denver.

Doesn't look like either player wanted to be in Washington over other options. They aren't at that level just yet. But they are getting close. A playoff appear certainly will help. Getting out of the first round will help 10x more.

[Ruzious]

The Milwaukee Bucks announced Thursday they have waived 6-foot-10 forward Gustavo Ayon, who was the only active Mexican-born player in the NBA.

I guess we knew something had to give with Henson, Udoh and Ilyosova at PF... and Larry Sanders and Zaza Pachulia at C.

He's the NBA's oldest project. He's a talented athlete, but his defensive awareness is awful - as if Javale McGee taught him how to play. He actually does have some offensive ability and hits the boards well enough so that some team will likely sign him, imo.

[verbal8]

The Milwaukee Bucks announced Thursday they have waived 6-foot-10 forward Gustavo Ayon, who was the only active Mexican-born player in the NBA.

I guess we knew something had to give with Henson, Udoh and Ilyosova at PF... and Larry Sanders and Zaza Pachulia at C.

He's the NBA's oldest project. He's a talented athlete, but his defensive awareness is awful - as if Javale McGee taught him how to play. He actually does have some offensive ability and hits the boards well enough so that some team will likely sign him, imo.

Sounds like a better option that Jamison, but potentially similar production.

[payitforward]

Still, I would be interested to see if the BAE was actually EG outbidding himself or if other GMs were in the mix and offering a similar amount of money. For instance, perhaps EG had to use the BAE to outbid Portland who would may have gladly had been back on the cheap. There certainly are other options that the Wizards could have used their BAE on. Hopefully, the Maynor option works out for the best.

I believe Portland had an option on Maynor, a cheap one, and let him walk.

"Hopefully" this and "Hopefully" that -- yes, Webster was a bargain last year. The blind squirrel found a nut. And we won 29 games. Now Webster is getting paid 100% for his production. So... what exactly did we gain from this fabulous find? (Note: I *like* Webster -- he isn't the issue. Ernie is the issue.)

And, no, Eric Maynor isn't going to turn out like Jarrett Jack. His best season isn't as good as Jack's worst season.

[Ruzious]

The Milwaukee Bucks announced Thursday they have waived 6-foot-10 forward Gustavo Ayon, who was the only active Mexican-born player in the NBA.

I guess we knew something had to give with Henson, Udoh and Ilyosova at PF... and Larry Sanders and Zaza Pachulia at C.

He's the NBA's oldest project. He's a talented athlete, but his defensive awareness is awful - as if Javale McGee taught him how to play. He actually does have some offensive ability and hits the boards well enough so that some team will likely sign him, imo.

Sounds like a better option that Jamison, but potentially similar production.

Well, he's not going to be sinking 3 pointers like Jamison, but Jamison is likely way over the hill at 37 years old, so I suppose you're right.

[Ruzious]

Still, I would be interested to see if the BAE was actually EG outbidding himself or if other GMs were in the mix and offering a similar amount of money. For instance, perhaps EG had to use the BAE to outbid Portland who would may have gladly had been back on the cheap. There certainly are other options that the Wizards could have used their BAE on. Hopefully, the Maynor option works out for the best.

I believe Portland had an option on Maynor, a cheap one, and let him walk.

"Hopefully" this and "Hopefully" that -- yes, Webster was a bargain last year. The blind squirrel found a nut. And we won 29 games. Now Webster is getting paid 100% for his production. So... what exactly did we gain from this fabulous find? (Note: I *like* Webster -- he isn't the issue. Ernie is the issue.)

And, no, Eric Maynor isn't going to turn out like Jarrett Jack. His best season isn't as good as Jack's worst season.

Whenever Ernie makes a "find" - going back to Michael Redd - he ends up overpaying the find and turning the positive into a negative.

[Dat2U]

It worked out with Webster. Hopefully, it works out with Maynor.

Even if it works out, the same mistake was made. Right player, but the wrong contract. Even if it cost more, there was not a compelling reason to add a team option to Webster. Having Webster under contract for 2 years allows retaining him at a deal up to the MLE using early bird rights.

Instead of learning from this and holding out for Maynor(or possibly a player with more production/upside) to take a deal with a team option or 2 years, EG rushed to give up the player option. This means if Maynor out-performs his deal, it will take the MLE to retain him(since he will opt out). Oh and you don't have the BAE, since you get it only every 2 years. However if he performs according to his career production, he will get paid twice what he produces.

One of these deals isn't a huge deal in the direction of the franchise, but the pattern is troubling.

It would seem to hold some logic that with a BAE, you would want to actually have the player signed for two years.

Anyone know how common that is or not ? Seems like if anything it should have been a Wiz team option, not a player option. And if not that, just a straight up 2 year contract.

----
Nate Robinson has decided to sign with the Denver Nuggets on a two year deal worth roughly $4 million dollars. The second year on Robinson’s deal is player option.

Alex Kennedy ✔ @AlexKennedyNBA

The Washington Wizards were also expressing serious interest in Nate Robinson, but he decided on the Denver Nuggets.

http://wizofawes.com/2013/07/22/nate-ro ... r-wizards/
----
Sounds like Nate has the same player option for a BAE. Sounds like the Wizards had a serious interest. Sounds like Nate decided on Denver.

Doesn't look like either player wanted to be in Washington over other options. They aren't at that level just yet. But they are getting close. A playoff appear certainly will help. Getting out of the first round will help 10x more.

Um don't you realize that Denver was offering the BAE and the most we could offer was the minimum? That's the whole freakin argument! That Ernie spent the BAE on day one instead of waiting things out to see if a guy like Nate or Collison could have been had. Of course where going to lose out to another team that's offering him more money. This isn't about just getting out the first round, this about Ernie making rushed decisions and squandering resources on a guy that wasn't any good.

[dckingsfan]

Um don't you realize that Denver was offering the BAE and the most we could offer was the minimum? That's the whole freakin argument! That Ernie spent the BAE on day one instead of waiting things out to see if a guy like Nate or Collison could have been had. Of course where going to lose out to another team that's offering him more money. This isn't about just getting out the first round, this about Ernie making rushed decisions and squandering resources on a guy that wasn't any good.

Exactly - we went in and immediately shot low. A good GM should have known that there were more players than open slots and that at least one of Collison, Robinson, Williams, etc. would have been left holding the bag. Ernie got burned last year when he didn't move quickly enough - because that year there was a dearth of FA PGs and combo guards available (and no one thought we would get to the playoffs). This is clearly well past his complexity horizon.

[dckingsfan]

Martell Webster: My dude @Nate Robinson has not been given what he deserves. This man put up big freakin numbers. #paywhatyouOwe this is a travesty. Twitter @MartellWebster

This cracks me up... would Martell have taken part of the MLE to bring Robinson in?

[dckingsfan]

The Milwaukee Bucks announced Thursday they have waived 6-foot-10 forward Gustavo Ayon, who was the only active Mexican-born player in the NBA.

I guess we knew something had to give with Henson, Udoh and Ilyosova at PF... and Larry Sanders and Zaza Pachulia at C.

He's the NBA's oldest project. He's a talented athlete, but his defensive awareness is awful - as if Javale McGee taught him how to play. He actually does have some offensive ability and hits the boards well enough so that some team will likely sign him, imo.

Agreed on both points. My overall point was about the Bucks and the depth at PF. Clearly they would have liked to trade one of Udoh or Ilyosova in order to get depth at other positions. Instead they end up waiving Ayon.

Still, they have a very deep, young and talented front court.

[Ruzious]

The Milwaukee Bucks announced Thursday they have waived 6-foot-10 forward Gustavo Ayon, who was the only active Mexican-born player in the NBA.

I guess we knew something had to give with Henson, Udoh and Ilyosova at PF... and Larry Sanders and Zaza Pachulia at C.

He's the NBA's oldest project. He's a talented athlete, but his defensive awareness is awful - as if Javale McGee taught him how to play. He actually does have some offensive ability and hits the boards well enough so that some team will likely sign him, imo.

Agreed on both points. My overall point was about the Bucks and the depth at PF. Clearly they would have liked to trade one of Udoh or Ilyosova in order to get depth at other positions. Instead they end up waiving Ayon.

Still, they have a very deep, young and talented front court.

It's hard to tell what the Bux are thinking, but my thoughts are different. I don't think they were looking to trade Ilyasova. They probably would have liked to trade Udoh; because he's not very good, but because he's not very good, he's got very little trade value. They have plenty of cap space left. I think that's what they were going to use to get their PG and small forward. So far, that hasn't worked out too well for them.

My guess is that they do end up re-signing Jennings (after failing elsewhere). They still might end up trading Ilyasova for a 3. At this point, who knows? My guess (I'm full of them and other stuff) is they really wanted Kirilenko and would have been willing to pay quite a bit more than Brooklyn did.

[FAH1223]

Denver gives Mozgov 3 years $15 million. Is Mozgov better than Koufos? Koufos was making $3 million per season.

[dckingsfan]

Denver gives Mozgov 3 years $15 million. Is Mozgov better than Koufos? Koufos was making $3 million per season.

duh - not a great off-season for Denver.

[dckingsfan]

He's the NBA's oldest project. He's a talented athlete, but his defensive awareness is awful - as if Javale McGee taught him how to play. He actually does have some offensive ability and hits the boards well enough so that some team will likely sign him, imo.

Agreed on both points. My overall point was about the Bucks and the depth at PF. Clearly they would have liked to trade one of Udoh or Ilyosova in order to get depth at other positions. Instead they end up waiving Ayon.

Still, they have a very deep, young and talented front court.

It's hard to tell what the Bux are thinking, but my thoughts are different. I don't think they were looking to trade Ilyasova. They probably would have liked to trade Udoh; because he's not very good, but because he's not very good, he's got very little trade value. They have plenty of cap space left. I think that's what they were going to use to get their PG and small forward. So far, that hasn't worked out too well for them.

My guess is that they do end up re-signing Jennings (after failing elsewhere). They still might end up trading Ilyasova for a 3. At this point, who knows? My guess (I'm full of them and other stuff) is they really wanted Kirilenko and would have been willing to pay quite a bit more than Brooklyn did.

I suspect you are right - if they could have moved both Ayon and Udoh they would have been quite happy.

They have been wise not to cave into Jennings demands (might be a lesson in there somewhere). They might be able to get him relatively inexpensively at this point.

Their depth at PG through SF looks like:

PG: Ridnour, Smith
SG: Mayo
SF: Delfino

I would say that isn't a playoff team

[dckingsfan]

Denver gives Mozgov 3 years $15 million. Is Mozgov better than Koufos? Koufos was making $3 million per season.

And the winner of that trade was clearly Memphis... the trade bumps them up in my mind.

PG: Conley, Bayless
SG: Allen, Miller, Wroten
SF: Prince, Pondexter
PF: Randolph, Davis
C: Gason, Koufos

[tontoz]

I don't understand what Denver is doing.

-They resign McGee to a huge deal
- they start Koufus and play McGee limited minutes off the bench
-they trade Koufus
-they resign Mozgov who hardly even played last season

What makes it really bad is that those clowns wound up with the guy (Nate) we should have had.